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What the Bible Says About Homosexuality

Wallstreetatheist
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1/4/2013 1:07:58 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Does God's word in the Bible really condemn homosexuality? Top scholars show that those who perceive Bible passages as condemning homosexuality are being misled by faulty translation and poor interpretation. Danial A. Helminiak, Ph.D. respected theologian and Roman Catholic priest, explains in a clear fashion the fascinating new insights of these scholars.
http://www.amazon.com...

I thought there was one part where God said that "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination" and "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."
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malcolmxy
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1/4/2013 1:39:25 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Cool...those couple passages always seemed to have been haphazardly added after the fact to me, though I fully believed them to be correct translations, if only because, like Mormons and Catholics know, advocating copious procreation is a great way to grow a religion.

Plus, there is more than enough improperly translated, interpreted and purposefully distorted by the church in regard to regular ol' heterosexual sex (which is really the type I am much more concerned about) that I've focused all my Latin research time (which used to be quite extensive, I'm embarrassed to say) on that.

I'm glad someone else hit up the man-love side of things.

Thanks for posting.
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YYW
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1/4/2013 2:06:46 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/4/2013 1:07:58 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
Does God's word in the Bible really condemn homosexuality? Top scholars show that those who perceive Bible passages as condemning homosexuality are being misled by faulty translation and poor interpretation. Danial A. Helminiak, Ph.D. respected theologian and Roman Catholic priest, explains in a clear fashion the fascinating new insights of these scholars.
http://www.amazon.com...

I thought there was one part where God said that "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination" and "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."

Read:

http://www.cebiaz.com...
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MouthWash
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1/4/2013 2:30:25 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Is homosexuality harmful or wrong in any way (perhaps detrimental to the family unit)?

If it is, the all-knowledgeable, perfect God would be against it.

If it isn't, the all-knowledgeable, perfect God won't have a problem with it.

Do you detect a flaw in this reasoning?
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Ramshutu
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1/4/2013 4:38:17 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Jesus himself said:

'Its not what enters a man that defiles him, but what does out'

Also, don't quote leviticus as the Authority on homosexuality as itsl also says a lot of other crazy stuff is an abomination.
Imagination
Posts: 26
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1/4/2013 1:48:47 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/4/2013 4:38:17 AM, Ramshutu wrote:
Also, don't quote leviticus as the Authority on homosexuality as itsl also says a lot of other crazy stuff is an abomination.

Exactly what I was going to say :D

Also ... the translation of "abomination" is sketchy at best. At the time the Bible was written, abomination did not mean obscenity or atrocity. It meant violation of ritual. When Leviticus says that homosexuality is an "abomination", he does not call it a moral or natural crime; instead, he denotes it as breaking custom, which, at his time, was punishable by death.

The aversion towards homosexual behavior as found in the Bible can be traced back to the sixth decade, when Christianity was widespread in Europe and the Greek homosexual culture was derided as pagan and therefore unacceptable in their society.

In the third book of the Bible under Leviticus, there are literally hundreds of things called "abominations". It is an abomination to eat birds and several sea creatures. It is an abomination to touch quadrupedal animals, or to wear wool and cotton simultaneously. Eight days after a woman has conceived, her husband must undergo circumcision. The new mother would also be expected to sacrifice a lamb, a young pigeon and a turtledove.

Then there's this:

"Do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, arsenokoites, thieves, the greedy, drunkards, revilers, robbers, none of these will inherit the kingdom of God."
" 1 Corinthians 6:9-11

While popular translations of the Hebrew Bible, such as the outdated King James Bible, transcribe arsenokoites to mean sodomites/homosexuals, Bible scholars have proven that this translation is erroneous.

If Paul of Tarsus really meant sodomites, he would have used the word androkoites instead, the existing Greek word for sodomite. However, arsenokoites has been traced back to the philosopher Philo (20 BC-50 A.D.), who used the term to mean "temple prostitution".

Later Christian literature adapted the word, defining arsenokoites as prostitution in general, even evolving it to mean rape or incest. Patriarch John IV of Constantinople wrote of "many men who commit the sin of arsenokoitia with their wives". Obviously this does not refer to homosexuality.
"And if reality doesn't fit the discrete labels we invent to describe it?" --drafterman
philochristos
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1/4/2013 2:17:26 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/4/2013 1:07:58 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
Does God's word in the Bible really condemn homosexuality? Top scholars show that those who perceive Bible passages as condemning homosexuality are being misled by faulty translation and poor interpretation.

Top scholars also show that the Bible clearly condemns homosexuality and that the "top scholars" who say otherwise are engaged in massive eisogesis.

So you really need to look at these argument for yourself. You can't appeal to "top scholars" when they disagree with each other. Personally, I think the claim that the Bible does not condemn homosexuality is far-fetched, and it's motivated by bias and political expediency rather than a desire to arrive at the truth of the matter.

This book deals with some of the recent attempts to argue that the Bible doesn't condemn homosexuality:

http://www.amazon.com...
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
Imagination
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1/5/2013 12:06:15 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/4/2013 2:17:26 PM, philochristos wrote:
This book deals with some of the recent attempts to argue that the Bible doesn't condemn homosexuality:

http://www.amazon.com...

Author #1, James R. White, is the director of a ministry, not a "top scholar", with no education in his field beyond a Master's in theology and a postgraduate Doctor's in theology. Author #2, Jeffrey D. Neill is a pastor, not a "top scholar". Neither have any specialized schooling in translating/speaking/reading Hebrew/Greek and neither have ever held a job in which they professionally studied the Bible in its original language, let alone in a scholarly (that is, specialized and/or unbiased) manner.
"And if reality doesn't fit the discrete labels we invent to describe it?" --drafterman
philochristos
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1/5/2013 12:23:52 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Imagination,

1. I did not cite James White and Jeff Neil as "top scholars." I cited their books as a resource for a response to recent attempts to argue that the Bible does not condemn homosexuality.

2. It is not true that James White has no expertise in Greek and Hebrew or that he hasn't held a job in those fields. He has taught both at seminary. https://aomin.org...

3. Do you honestly doubt that there are top scholars who think the Bible condemns homosexuality?

4. Appealing to "top scholars" to defend a minority position is a fallacious argument from authority.
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
Dogknox
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1/5/2013 1:05:31 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
The Bible Says Homosexuality sends people to punishment of eternal fire

Jude 1:7
In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

The Bible Says Homosexuality detestable!!

Ezekiel 16:49
"Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.
50 They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen.


The Bible says..Homosexuality is Shameful lust!! Lust is a sin! Deserving death!!!

Romans 1:26
Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones.
27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

..
32 Although they know God"s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

The Bible Says Homosexuality will not enter the Kingdom!!

1 Corinthians 6:9
Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men.

All of Scripture teaches the unacceptability of homosexual behavior. The homosexual must reject the scriptures to have sex with their same gender! Rejecting the scriptures condemns people... Never mind the scriptures that condemn the Homosexual!

Dogknox
twocupcakes
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1/5/2013 1:23:36 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
The "correct interpretation" will be influenced as to what current common beliefs are. For, example other crazy Old Testament laws that condemn women, or the one about not wearing clothes from two fabrics, get reconciled because people intrinsically realize the absurdity of the passages.

As people begin to accept gays, churches/scholars will have "divine revelations" that all gay bashing passages are false. Kinda like how the Mormon church had a "divine revelation" that black people should be allowed to hold positions in the church.
malcolmxy
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1/5/2013 4:20:02 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/5/2013 1:05:31 PM, Dogknox wrote:
The Bible Says Homosexuality sends people to punishment of eternal fire

Jude 1:7
In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

Do you even know what the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah was? It wasn't bumping angel booty. That was only mentioned as an example of the chaotic nature of the general condition of the cities just before God gave it the ol' zip-zap.

The cities were destroyed because no one would wash the angels' feet. This was the 1st act in the Jewish tradition of being welcoming to strangers and travelers who arrive in your city/home.

The butt-sex showed that the citizens were willing to ignore their Jewish duty for all manner of reason, but it had nothing to do with God's rage.

Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed because of lack of courtesy...ya know, like the lack of courtesy you show to those among His children whom he makes gay at birth.


The Bible Says Homosexuality detestable!!

Ezekiel 16:49
"Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.
50 They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen.


hey...that's what I said...


The Bible says..Homosexuality is Shameful lust!! Lust is a sin! Deserving death!!!

Not for lesbians, it doesn't.


Romans 1:26
Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones.

This could mean goats, not other women.

27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

which, again, was discourtesy, not blow jobs.

..
32 Although they know God"s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

again, the text is referring to being rude to strangers here.


The Bible Says Homosexuality will not enter the Kingdom!!

1 Corinthians 6:9
Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men.

what other sexually immoral acts prohibit one from entering the kingdom of heaven...

Hey, what happened to grace through belief. Do you men to tell me God would forgive a seril murderer but not a GAY serial murderer?

Obviously, yer f*cked if you cheat on your wife (that' a choice, right?)


All of Scripture teaches the unacceptability of homosexual behavior. The homosexual must reject the scriptures to have sex with their same gender! Rejecting the scriptures condemns people... Never mind the scriptures that condemn the Homosexual!

no it doesn't. you don't understand it enough to make that statement.


Dogknox

dumb@ss

*fixed*
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malcolmxy
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1/5/2013 4:21:49 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/5/2013 1:23:36 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
The "correct interpretation" will be influenced as to what current common beliefs are. For, example other crazy Old Testament laws that condemn women, or the one about not wearing clothes from two fabrics, get reconciled because people intrinsically realize the absurdity of the passages.

As people begin to accept gays, churches/scholars will have "divine revelations" that all gay bashing passages are false. Kinda like how the Mormon church had a "divine revelation" that black people should be allowed to hold positions in the church.

They weren't absurd at the time. A culture devoid of a means to refrigerate them should probably steer clear of pork and shellfish, no?
War is over, if you want it.

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Dogknox
Posts: 5,065
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1/5/2013 5:36:04 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
malcolmxy like I said... The Bible Says Homosexual act sends people to punishment of eternal fire!!! (below)

Jude 1:7
In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

The Bible Says Homosexual acts are detestable!! (below)

Ezekiel 16:49
"Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.
50 They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen.


The Bible says..Homosexual acts are Shameful lust!! Lust is a sin! Deserving death!!! (below)

Romans 1:26
Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones.
27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.
..
32 Although they know God"s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.


malcolmxy Did you see it???! Men committed shameful acts with other men,
The Bible Says the Homosexual will not enter the Kingdom!!

1 Corinthians 6:9
Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men.

malcolmxy I don't make this up.. All of Scripture teaches the unacceptability of homosexual behavior.
The homosexual must reject the scriptures to have sex with their same gender! Rejecting the scriptures condemns people...
malcolmxy Never mind the scriptures that condemn the Homosexual!

This is what the Bible Says About Homosexuality!!!!

Dogknox
popculturepooka
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1/5/2013 6:04:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I'm always puzzled by appeals to Sodom and Gomorah WRT homosexuality and it being a sin (and in the case of the "unrepentant" homosexual, eternal hell).

1.Sodom is restored.

Ezekiel 16:53-63

"53 ""However, I will restore the fortunes of Sodom and her daughters and of Samaria and her daughters, and your fortunes along with them, 54 so that you may bear your disgrace and be ashamed of all you have done in giving them comfort. 55 And your sisters, Sodom with her daughters and Samaria with her daughters, will return to what they were before; and you and your daughters will return to what you were before. 56 You would not even mention your sister Sodom in the day of your pride, 57 before your wickedness was uncovered. Even so, you are now scorned by the daughters of Edom[a] and all her neighbors and the daughters of the Philistines"all those around you who despise you. 58 You will bear the consequences of your lewdness and your detestable practices, declares the Lord.

59 ""This is what the Sovereign Lord says: I will deal with you as you deserve, because you have despised my oath by breaking the covenant. 60 Yet I will remember the covenant I made with you in the days of your youth, and I will establish an everlasting covenant with you. 61 Then you will remember your ways and be ashamed when you receive your sisters, both those who are older than you and those who are younger. I will give them to you as daughters, but not on the basis of my covenant with you. 62 So I will establish my covenant with you, and you will know that I am the Lord. 63 Then, when I make atonement for you for all you have done, you will remember and be ashamed and never again open your mouth because of your humiliation, declares the Sovereign Lord."""

2. When the principal sins of Sodom and Gommorah are first commented upon homosexuality isn't even mentioned.

Ezekiel 16:49

"49 ""Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy."
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twocupcakes
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1/5/2013 8:11:29 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/5/2013 4:21:49 PM, malcolmxy wrote:
At 1/5/2013 1:23:36 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
The "correct interpretation" will be influenced as to what current common beliefs are. For, example other crazy Old Testament laws that condemn women, or the one about not wearing clothes from two fabrics, get reconciled because people intrinsically realize the absurdity of the passages.

As people begin to accept gays, churches/scholars will have "divine revelations" that all gay bashing passages are false. Kinda like how the Mormon church had a "divine revelation" that black people should be allowed to hold positions in the church.

They weren't absurd at the time. A culture devoid of a means to refrigerate them should probably steer clear of pork and shellfish, no?

They did not seem absurd back then, but seem absurd now. Just like gay hating was not absurd back then, yet seems absurd now.
malcolmxy
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1/5/2013 9:56:29 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/5/2013 5:36:04 PM, Dogknox wrote:
malcolmxy like I said... The Bible Says Homosexual act sends people to punishment of eternal fire!!! (below)

No, it's been misinterpreted from the original Hebrew of the old testament. What it should say is that cannibalism is an abomination (abominations , or Shiqquwts as they were originally called, are dietary restrictions. This has nothing to do with banging your buddy in the butt. It has to do with killing him and grilling his big ol' juicy rump roast.


Jude 1:7
In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

Yes, cannibalism is pretty perverse. I will agree with you on this point.


The Bible Says Homosexual acts are detestable!! (below)

Ezekiel 16:49
"Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.

This has nothing to do with homosexuality. It has to do with a lack of courtesy, just as I said.

50 They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen.

haugh"ty
/ˈh"tē/
Adjective
Arrogantly superior and disdainful:

Tell me what part of what you just quoted has anything to do with homosexuality. The 1st 5 books of the Old Testament contain the Laws of Moses, and as I remember them, there were many things listed as "detestable", and since sex isn't called out directly here, even by your mistranslation and misunderstanding of this passage, you can't say it condemns lesbianism. Therefore, you have still yet to show me anything that says "God hates dykes." So far, by your rules, women gettin' it on together is just groovy with God (and, seriously, thank God for that...phew).


The Bible says..Homosexual acts are Shameful lust!! Lust is a sin! Deserving death!!! (below)

Romans 1:26
Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones.

If lust is a sin, why did God, Himself, push them into lust? In the law, we call that entrapment.

27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

again, lesbians are not called out here. I still say my hot girl-on-girl action exception applies.

..
32 Although they know God"s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.


God killed people for a lot of reasons, and most of them, at the time He carried out his killings, were because of explicit rule which he had laid out yet being broken.

I call do-over. That's not fair.


malcolmxy Did you see it???! Men committed shameful acts with other men,
The Bible Says the Homosexual will not enter the Kingdom!!

but not the ladies...that reminds me...I gotta forge a little highway to heIl myself tonight.


1 Corinthians 6:9
Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men.

Women on women is still cool...thank you, Jehovah.


malcolmxy I don't make this up.. All of Scripture teaches the unacceptability of homosexual behavior.
The homosexual must reject the scriptures to have sex with their same gender! Rejecting the scriptures condemns people...
malcolmxy Never mind the scriptures that condemn the Homosexual!

This is what the Bible Says About Homosexuality!!!!

No, the bible says you shouldn't kill and then eat God's children. The misinterpretation that you've been fed which has kept your one true desire of slipping your meat pole into your best buddy's fluffy rump is a form of control by man and has nothing to do with God's will.


Dogknox

If you wanna tell me how it is impossible that the bible was misinterpreted, you're gonna have to explain why countless popes of the past (and, remember, even if you are not Catholic, they controlled the book for the greater portion of its existence in printed form) have called for tedious analysis to root out the errors of man in translating The Old Testament, especially, from the 3 differing sources from which it originated.

There's no bible verse for that one. It's actually gonna require reading another book. You ever done that before?
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malcolmxy
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1/5/2013 9:58:28 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/5/2013 8:11:29 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
At 1/5/2013 4:21:49 PM, malcolmxy wrote:
At 1/5/2013 1:23:36 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
The "correct interpretation" will be influenced as to what current common beliefs are. For, example other crazy Old Testament laws that condemn women, or the one about not wearing clothes from two fabrics, get reconciled because people intrinsically realize the absurdity of the passages.

As people begin to accept gays, churches/scholars will have "divine revelations" that all gay bashing passages are false. Kinda like how the Mormon church had a "divine revelation" that black people should be allowed to hold positions in the church.

They weren't absurd at the time. A culture devoid of a means to refrigerate them should probably steer clear of pork and shellfish, no?

They did not seem absurd back then, but seem absurd now. Just like gay hating was not absurd back then, yet seems absurd now.

hating gays was pretty absurd back then. the most @ss-kickingest army in that world was completely made up of fairies. you come out of the closet as homophobic back then and you were liable to lose your head...literally.
War is over, if you want it.

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twocupcakes
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1/5/2013 10:25:51 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/5/2013 9:58:28 PM, malcolmxy wrote:
At 1/5/2013 8:11:29 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
At 1/5/2013 4:21:49 PM, malcolmxy wrote:
At 1/5/2013 1:23:36 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
The "correct interpretation" will be influenced as to what current common beliefs are. For, example other crazy Old Testament laws that condemn women, or the one about not wearing clothes from two fabrics, get reconciled because people intrinsically realize the absurdity of the passages.

As people begin to accept gays, churches/scholars will have "divine revelations" that all gay bashing passages are false. Kinda like how the Mormon church had a "divine revelation" that black people should be allowed to hold positions in the church.

They weren't absurd at the time. A culture devoid of a means to refrigerate them should probably steer clear of pork and shellfish, no?

They did not seem absurd back then, but seem absurd now. Just like gay hating was not absurd back then, yet seems absurd now.

hating gays was pretty absurd back then. the most @ss-kickingest army in that world was completely made up of fairies. you come out of the closet as homophobic back then and you were liable to lose your head...literally.

Is it your position that homosexuals were more accepted when the Bible was written then present day? C'mon. I wonder how the local authorities would act to a gay pride parade at this time?
Composer
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1/5/2013 10:32:49 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
True to the 100% man fabricated bible Story book & its many self contradictions; one of them is that it appears on the one hand to abhor active homosexuality in either genders; however there is considerable Story book evidence to legitimately demonstrate that Story book jebus was a blatant homosexual itself!

e.g. Slept with up to 12 men at a time!
malcolmxy
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1/5/2013 10:58:44 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/5/2013 10:25:51 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
At 1/5/2013 9:58:28 PM, malcolmxy wrote:
At 1/5/2013 8:11:29 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
At 1/5/2013 4:21:49 PM, malcolmxy wrote:
At 1/5/2013 1:23:36 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
The "correct interpretation" will be influenced as to what current common beliefs are. For, example other crazy Old Testament laws that condemn women, or the one about not wearing clothes from two fabrics, get reconciled because people intrinsically realize the absurdity of the passages.

As people begin to accept gays, churches/scholars will have "divine revelations" that all gay bashing passages are false. Kinda like how the Mormon church had a "divine revelation" that black people should be allowed to hold positions in the church.

They weren't absurd at the time. A culture devoid of a means to refrigerate them should probably steer clear of pork and shellfish, no?

They did not seem absurd back then, but seem absurd now. Just like gay hating was not absurd back then, yet seems absurd now.

hating gays was pretty absurd back then. the most @ss-kickingest army in that world was completely made up of fairies. you come out of the closet as homophobic back then and you were liable to lose your head...literally.

Is it your position that homosexuals were more accepted when the Bible was written then present day? C'mon. I wonder how the local authorities would act to a gay pride parade at this time?

Homosexuality in the militaries of ancient Greece was regarded as contributing to morale.[1] Although the primary example is the Sacred Band of Thebes, a unit said to have been formed of same-sex couples, the Spartan tradition of military heroism has also been explained in light of strong emotional bonds resulting from homosexual relationships.[2] Various ancient Greek sources record incidents of courage in battle and interpret them as motivated by homoerotic bonds.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

Given that the local authorities were totally gay, I think they would have been pretty OK with it.

Plus, if there is no degradation of homosexuals, there is no need for a parade to display their pride and boost their position (pun intended) in society. Gays were already proud back in the day.

It is really a post 1920 phenomenon to have such an anti-gay culture. Gays were known and accepted throughout history, with few exceptions (puritanical New England, for example) until quite recently.

As it turns out, your modern sensibilities regarding gays are way behind the times, despite how liberal you believe yourself to be.
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Dogknox
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1/6/2013 6:17:14 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
malcolmxy The thread is "What the Bible Says About Homosexuality"
What the Bible Says About Homosexuality is that, it is WRONG!!!!
It sends people to hell, it is detestable!

Genesis 19:4
Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom"both young and old"surrounded the house.
5 They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them."
6 Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him
7 and said, "No, my friends. Don"t do this wicked thing.


malcolmxy DO YOU SEE IT??? Homosexuality is WICKED!!!!

28 He looked down toward Sodom and Gomorrah, toward all the land of the plain, and he saw dense smoke rising from the land, like smoke from a furnace.

The Homosexual in Lots day was destroyed by "FIRE"!!!

Dogknox
twocupcakes
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1/6/2013 6:24:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/5/2013 10:58:44 PM, malcolmxy wrote:
At 1/5/2013 10:25:51 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
At 1/5/2013 9:58:28 PM, malcolmxy wrote:
At 1/5/2013 8:11:29 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
At 1/5/2013 4:21:49 PM, malcolmxy wrote:
At 1/5/2013 1:23:36 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
The "correct interpretation" will be influenced as to what current common beliefs are. For, example other crazy Old Testament laws that condemn women, or the one about not wearing clothes from two fabrics, get reconciled because people intrinsically realize the absurdity of the passages.

As people begin to accept gays, churches/scholars will have "divine revelations" that all gay bashing passages are false. Kinda like how the Mormon church had a "divine revelation" that black people should be allowed to hold positions in the church.

They weren't absurd at the time. A culture devoid of a means to refrigerate them should probably steer clear of pork and shellfish, no?

They did not seem absurd back then, but seem absurd now. Just like gay hating was not absurd back then, yet seems absurd now.

hating gays was pretty absurd back then. the most @ss-kickingest army in that world was completely made up of fairies. you come out of the closet as homophobic back then and you were liable to lose your head...literally.

Is it your position that homosexuals were more accepted when the Bible was written then present day? C'mon. I wonder how the local authorities would act to a gay pride parade at this time?

Homosexuality in the militaries of ancient Greece was regarded as contributing to morale.[1] Although the primary example is the Sacred Band of Thebes, a unit said to have been formed of same-sex couples, the Spartan tradition of military heroism has also been explained in light of strong emotional bonds resulting from homosexual relationships.[2] Various ancient Greek sources record incidents of courage in battle and interpret them as motivated by homoerotic bonds.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

Given that the local authorities were totally gay, I think they would have been pretty OK with it.

Plus, if there is no degradation of homosexuals, there is no need for a parade to display their pride and boost their position (pun intended) in society. Gays were already proud back in the day.

It is really a post 1920 phenomenon to have such an anti-gay culture. Gays were known and accepted throughout history, with few exceptions (puritanical New England, for example) until quite recently.

As it turns out, your modern sensibilities regarding gays are way behind the times, despite how liberal you believe yourself to be.

The Spartans did not follow the Bible. They had there own gods. So mentioning the spartan culture seems irrelevant. If you take cultures that subscribed to Christianity, gays were hated throughout history. So, there may have been ancient cultures that embraced gays, but those under Christianity were not.
malcolmxy
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1/6/2013 8:29:57 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/6/2013 6:17:14 PM, Dogknox wrote:
malcolmxy The thread is "What the Bible Says About Homosexuality"
What the Bible Says About Homosexuality is that, it is WRONG!!!!
It sends people to hell, it is detestable!

Genesis 19:4
Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom"both young and old"surrounded the house.
5 They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them."
6 Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him
7 and said, "No, my friends. Don"t do this wicked thing.


malcolmxy DO YOU SEE IT??? Homosexuality is WICKED!!!!

28 He looked down toward Sodom and Gomorrah, toward all the land of the plain, and he saw dense smoke rising from the land, like smoke from a furnace.

The Homosexual in Lots day was destroyed by "FIRE"!!!

Dogknox

Well, sure. Your busted, poorly translated bible says that, but that's not what it said originally.

Like I said, THE POPE recognizes that the bible has been mistranslated in places.

This is one of them. If you want to continue to believe a lie that is, in no way, part of God's plan for you, you go right ahead, but the penitent man would realize his mistake and make amends for his wickedness.

I guess you're not penitent. That's cool. I don't think God will be pleased about it, though.
War is over, if you want it.

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malcolmxy
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1/6/2013 8:35:44 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/6/2013 6:24:54 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
At 1/5/2013 10:58:44 PM, malcolmxy wrote:
At 1/5/2013 10:25:51 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
At 1/5/2013 9:58:28 PM, malcolmxy wrote:
At 1/5/2013 8:11:29 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
At 1/5/2013 4:21:49 PM, malcolmxy wrote:
At 1/5/2013 1:23:36 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
The "correct interpretation" will be influenced as to what current common beliefs are. For, example other crazy Old Testament laws that condemn women, or the one about not wearing clothes from two fabrics, get reconciled because people intrinsically realize the absurdity of the passages.

As people begin to accept gays, churches/scholars will have "divine revelations" that all gay bashing passages are false. Kinda like how the Mormon church had a "divine revelation" that black people should be allowed to hold positions in the church.

They weren't absurd at the time. A culture devoid of a means to refrigerate them should probably steer clear of pork and shellfish, no?

They did not seem absurd back then, but seem absurd now. Just like gay hating was not absurd back then, yet seems absurd now.

hating gays was pretty absurd back then. the most @ss-kickingest army in that world was completely made up of fairies. you come out of the closet as homophobic back then and you were liable to lose your head...literally.

Is it your position that homosexuals were more accepted when the Bible was written then present day? C'mon. I wonder how the local authorities would act to a gay pride parade at this time?

Homosexuality in the militaries of ancient Greece was regarded as contributing to morale.[1] Although the primary example is the Sacred Band of Thebes, a unit said to have been formed of same-sex couples, the Spartan tradition of military heroism has also been explained in light of strong emotional bonds resulting from homosexual relationships.[2] Various ancient Greek sources record incidents of courage in battle and interpret them as motivated by homoerotic bonds.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

Given that the local authorities were totally gay, I think they would have been pretty OK with it.

Plus, if there is no degradation of homosexuals, there is no need for a parade to display their pride and boost their position (pun intended) in society. Gays were already proud back in the day.

It is really a post 1920 phenomenon to have such an anti-gay culture. Gays were known and accepted throughout history, with few exceptions (puritanical New England, for example) until quite recently.

As it turns out, your modern sensibilities regarding gays are way behind the times, despite how liberal you believe yourself to be.

The Spartans did not follow the Bible. They had there own gods. So mentioning the spartan culture seems irrelevant. If you take cultures that subscribed to Christianity, gays were hated throughout history. So, there may have been ancient cultures that embraced gays, but those under Christianity were not.

The country was primarily Christian in the 1920s, right? 1890s? It is even primarily Christian today, is it not?

The Greek thing (which was the original language of the New Testament, ya know, so what would be considered "Ancient Greeks" were Christian.. perhaps you've heard of Greek Orthodox...) was simply used to illustrate a point, but homosexuality is widely accepted now and the country is majority Christian, and acceptance is growing whilst bigotry is dying off when people like you die.

The Anglican Church (a decidedly Christian faith) has a gay Bishop, so there is at least one group of Christians who have come to the realization that the sections of the bible which condemn homosexuality are either stupid, outmoded, or mistranslated.

Take your pick.
War is over, if you want it.

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twocupcakes
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1/6/2013 10:57:52 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/6/2013 8:35:44 PM, malcolmxy wrote:
At 1/6/2013 6:24:54 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
At 1/5/2013 10:58:44 PM, malcolmxy wrote:
At 1/5/2013 10:25:51 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
At 1/5/2013 9:58:28 PM, malcolmxy wrote:
At 1/5/2013 8:11:29 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
At 1/5/2013 4:21:49 PM, malcolmxy wrote:
At 1/5/2013 1:23:36 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
The "correct interpretation" will be influenced as to what current common beliefs are. For, example other crazy Old Testament laws that condemn women, or the one about not wearing clothes from two fabrics, get reconciled because people intrinsically realize the absurdity of the passages.

As people begin to accept gays, churches/scholars will have "divine revelations" that all gay bashing passages are false. Kinda like how the Mormon church had a "divine revelation" that black people should be allowed to hold positions in the church.

They weren't absurd at the time. A culture devoid of a means to refrigerate them should probably steer clear of pork and shellfish, no?

They did not seem absurd back then, but seem absurd now. Just like gay hating was not absurd back then, yet seems absurd now.

hating gays was pretty absurd back then. the most @ss-kickingest army in that world was completely made up of fairies. you come out of the closet as homophobic back then and you were liable to lose your head...literally.

Is it your position that homosexuals were more accepted when the Bible was written then present day? C'mon. I wonder how the local authorities would act to a gay pride parade at this time?

Homosexuality in the militaries of ancient Greece was regarded as contributing to morale.[1] Although the primary example is the Sacred Band of Thebes, a unit said to have been formed of same-sex couples, the Spartan tradition of military heroism has also been explained in light of strong emotional bonds resulting from homosexual relationships.[2] Various ancient Greek sources record incidents of courage in battle and interpret them as motivated by homoerotic bonds.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

Given that the local authorities were totally gay, I think they would have been pretty OK with it.

Plus, if there is no degradation of homosexuals, there is no need for a parade to display their pride and boost their position (pun intended) in society. Gays were already proud back in the day.

It is really a post 1920 phenomenon to have such an anti-gay culture. Gays were known and accepted throughout history, with few exceptions (puritanical New England, for example) until quite recently.

As it turns out, your modern sensibilities regarding gays are way behind the times, despite how liberal you believe yourself to be.

The Spartans did not follow the Bible. They had there own gods. So mentioning the spartan culture seems irrelevant. If you take cultures that subscribed to Christianity, gays were hated throughout history. So, there may have been ancient cultures that embraced gays, but those under Christianity were not.

The country was primarily Christian in the 1920s, right? 1890s? It is even primarily Christian today, is it not?

The Greek thing (which was the original language of the New Testament, ya know, so what would be considered "Ancient Greeks" were Christian.. perhaps you've heard of Greek Orthodox...) was simply used to illustrate a point, but homosexuality is widely accepted now and the country is majority Christian, and acceptance is growing whilst bigotry is dying off when people like you die.

The Anglican Church (a decidedly Christian faith) has a gay Bishop, so there is at least one group of Christians who have come to the realization that the sections of the bible which condemn homosexuality are either stupid, outmoded, or mistranslated.

Take your pick.

As I said, churches are more accepting of gays now, because humans have realized that there is no reason to hate gays. However, where bigotry against gays exist, people use religion to reaffirm there prejudices. People now "find a reason" to discredit the gay hating passages as they do about the passages about slavery, killing those on the Sabbath, and those that demean women.

What the Bible says is irrelevant. The Bible could say pro gay messages or anti gay messages. People will "interpret" the Bible to mean whatever they want it to mean. People don't get there moral laws from the Bible, but use the Bible to reassure themselves that what they think is right.

So, as it becomes more obvious to people that there is no reason to hate gays, people will find ways to "interpret" the Bible to not mean bad things about gays. Just as people "rationalize" passages about slavery and that demean women.
malcolmxy
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1/7/2013 12:12:35 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/6/2013 10:57:52 PM, twocupcakes wrote:

As I said, churches are more accepting of gays now, because humans have realized that there is no reason to hate gays. However, where bigotry against gays exist, people use religion to reaffirm there prejudices. People now "find a reason" to discredit the gay hating passages as they do about the passages about slavery, killing those on the Sabbath, and those that demean women.

What the Bible says is irrelevant. The Bible could say pro gay messages or anti gay messages. People will "interpret" the Bible to mean whatever they want it to mean. People don't get there moral laws from the Bible, but use the Bible to reassure themselves that what they think is right.

So, as it becomes more obvious to people that there is no reason to hate gays, people will find ways to "interpret" the Bible to not mean bad things about gays. Just as people "rationalize" passages about slavery and that demean women.

I'm not so sure about that one. It's called homophobia, as opposed to f@ggotry, or something along those lines, for a reason.

Puberty, especially for boys, I think, is an incredibly scary and confusing time (yeah...I know...Aunt Flow...but you have no idea what those hormones do to a boy's brain...it's crazy).

The idea of being different, even a kind of different which is generally acceptable, is scary. Sometimes, boys will fight against it with all their might.

Like I said, there have been many cultures that were fine with gays, and even had openly gay men in positions of great reverence, but people are gonna go on being scared of stuff that is scary to them.

It's not that they think it's right or wrong...it just is.

Also, the 2 explicit passages about being gay in the bible - you cannot interpret these any other way as they have been translated currently.

It is either, as I believe, a complete misreading of the original Hebrew (I did some research since my initial response to WSA, as well as some translations of my own), or it's not and Christianity requires viewing homosexuality as a sin...or, like shellfish, they'll start ignoring it.

Who knows? The idea of hating a person or a thing because a book tells me to is so ridiculous to me that I can barely comprehend these people being in the same species as me. This is where I hold out faith that the world will pull its collective head out of its @ss someday.

I'm sure I'll be proven wrong, but it's one of those beliefs that I hold simply because it keeps me sane.
War is over, if you want it.

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Suqua
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1/7/2013 12:52:04 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/4/2013 1:07:58 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
Does God's word in the Bible really condemn homosexuality? Top scholars show that those who perceive Bible passages as condemning homosexuality are being misled by faulty translation and poor interpretation.

Of course I am, what else is new. Wrong is right and right is wrong, why didnt I think of that. Oh its because I dont have one of those lettered papers. I'll have to go and pick one of those up on the way home from work, because I dont know anything unless I have one of those thingy papers.

. Danial A. Helminiak, Ph.D. respected theologian and Roman Catholic priest, explains in a clear fashion the fascinating new insights of these scholars.

In his clear fashion, new and improved insights that make him look like he's right( off the deep end).

http://www.amazon.com...

It should say, "What I think Really the Bible should say about (my lifestyle choice) Homosexuality" What a sick world we live in. WHAT NEXT!

I thought there was one part where God said that "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination" and "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon.
Suqua
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1/7/2013 1:13:13 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/5/2013 1:05:31 PM, Dogknox wrote:
The Bible Says Homosexuality sends people to punishment of eternal fire

Jude 1:7
In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

The Bible Says Homosexuality detestable!!

Ezekiel 16:49
"Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.
50 They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen.


The Bible says..Homosexuality is Shameful lust!! Lust is a sin! Deserving death!!!

Romans 1:26
Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones.
27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

..
32 Although they know God"s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

The Bible Says Homosexuality will not enter the Kingdom!!

1 Corinthians 6:9
Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men.

All of Scripture teaches the unacceptability of homosexual behavior. The homosexual must reject the scriptures to have sex with their same gender! Rejecting the scriptures condemns people... Never mind the scriptures that condemn the Homosexual!

Dogknox

Remember this is your "Church" respected theologian. How does your church deal with this?