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Does it offend you

phantom
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1/6/2013 12:25:20 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
To atheists, secularists and just anyone who qualifies; does it offend you at all when religious people tell you that you're going to hell for eternity and that you deserve it?

Personally, it more angers me than offends me. I realize they also think they deserve hell usually, but I think the morality of it is just absurd and that's why it angers me. It doesn't offend me that much.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
sadolite
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1/6/2013 12:34:25 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
The degree that "you" are angered or offended by something is equal to the degree that "you care" that I am angered or offended by something.
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bossyburrito
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1/6/2013 12:42:25 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Not really.
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Stephen_Hawkins
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1/6/2013 12:42:44 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I think pity and disappointment (though it sounds clich") comes out more.
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philochristos
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1/6/2013 1:37:55 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/6/2013 12:25:20 PM, phantom wrote:
To atheists, secularists and just anyone who qualifies; does it offend you at all when religious people tell you that you're going to hell for eternity and that you deserve it?

It doesn't anger or offend me. Of course I'm a Christian, and I think people are going to hell who deserve it. But even if I were not a Christian, I don't think it would anger or offend me. It's either true or not's not true, so who cares whether it's offensive or not? If a person really believes that I'm in danger, then they ought to warn me. If anything, I should be offended by a person who truly believes I'm in danger but does nothing warn me.
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
Franz_Reynard
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1/6/2013 1:51:07 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/6/2013 12:25:20 PM, phantom wrote:
To atheists, secularists and just anyone who qualifies; does it offend you at all when religious people tell you that you're going to hell for eternity and that you deserve it?

Personally, it more angers me than offends me. I realize they also think they deserve hell usually, but I think the morality of it is just absurd and that's why it angers me. It doesn't offend me that much.

Indeed.

Self-righteous hypocrisy.
proglib
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1/6/2013 2:03:25 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/6/2013 1:51:43 PM, RationalMadman wrote:
http://tinyurl.com...

Excellent response!
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Wnope
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1/6/2013 2:04:35 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Eh, it doesn't really effect me more than someone saying "your haircut is ugly."

Except I can privately laugh since I know they've got the equivalent of a faux-hawk on their heads.
phantom
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1/6/2013 2:04:51 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/6/2013 1:37:55 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 1/6/2013 12:25:20 PM, phantom wrote:
To atheists, secularists and just anyone who qualifies; does it offend you at all when religious people tell you that you're going to hell for eternity and that you deserve it?

It doesn't anger or offend me. Of course I'm a Christian, and I think people are going to hell who deserve it. But even if I were not a Christian, I don't think it would anger or offend me. It's either true or not's not true, so who cares whether it's offensive or not? If a person really believes that I'm in danger, then they ought to warn me. If anything, I should be offended by a person who truly believes I'm in danger but does nothing warn me.

Good points definitely, but it's more of an issue of the fact that they believe it, not so much that they're warning you about it.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
Oryus
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1/6/2013 2:07:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/6/2013 12:25:20 PM, phantom wrote:
To atheists, secularists and just anyone who qualifies; does it offend you at all when religious people tell you that you're going to hell for eternity and that you deserve it?

Personally, it more angers me than offends me. I realize they also think they deserve hell usually, but I think the morality of it is just absurd and that's why it angers me. It doesn't offend me that much.

It really depends. I wouldn't be friends with someone who really, truly thought I was going to hell- especially one who was vocal about it. For them to think I'm going to hell requires that they judge me epically and, on top of that, have the arrogance to assume they know what God will do. The stupidity and arrogance of that upsets me more than the judgment, honestly. I don't know if I would say it offends me so much as it disappoints me, amuses me, and makes such people not worth my time.
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Wnope
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1/6/2013 2:08:46 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/6/2013 2:04:51 PM, phantom wrote:
At 1/6/2013 1:37:55 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 1/6/2013 12:25:20 PM, phantom wrote:
To atheists, secularists and just anyone who qualifies; does it offend you at all when religious people tell you that you're going to hell for eternity and that you deserve it?

It doesn't anger or offend me. Of course I'm a Christian, and I think people are going to hell who deserve it. But even if I were not a Christian, I don't think it would anger or offend me. It's either true or not's not true, so who cares whether it's offensive or not? If a person really believes that I'm in danger, then they ought to warn me. If anything, I should be offended by a person who truly believes I'm in danger but does nothing warn me.

Good points definitely, but it's more of an issue of the fact that they believe it, not so much that they're warning you about it.

If that's the case, then I take "you're going to hell" to be no more offensive than "I am part of mainstream American protestant christianity."
Franz_Reynard
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1/6/2013 2:12:26 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/6/2013 2:04:51 PM, phantom wrote:
At 1/6/2013 1:37:55 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 1/6/2013 12:25:20 PM, phantom wrote:
To atheists, secularists and just anyone who qualifies; does it offend you at all when religious people tell you that you're going to hell for eternity and that you deserve it?

It doesn't anger or offend me. Of course I'm a Christian, and I think people are going to hell who deserve it. But even if I were not a Christian, I don't think it would anger or offend me. It's either true or not's not true, so who cares whether it's offensive or not? If a person really believes that I'm in danger, then they ought to warn me. If anything, I should be offended by a person who truly believes I'm in danger but does nothing warn me.

Good points definitely, but it's more of an issue of the fact that they believe it, not so much that they're warning you about it.

Indeed.

Actually, to take this a step further, when one considers this in action, it is rarely an amicable, "well, I think you're probably going to hell, but we're totally cool until you die."

Such people color most of their interaction with you with such judgement. From cursing to expressing sexual interest, it is practically insufferable to associate with such people. It's not so much that they think you're going to hell, but more that it appears they want to see you go.

Might I add that they are none to pleasant to anthropomorphic animals. "Imps" they call them, throwing water at you and screaming obstruse scripture out of context.
philochristos
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1/6/2013 2:15:02 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/6/2013 2:07:39 PM, Oryus wrote:
For them to think I'm going to hell requires that they judge me epically and, on top of that, have the arrogance to assume they know what God will do.

Why do you think it's arrogant for a person to think they know what God will do? Suppose God told them what he would do. That wouldn't make them automatically arrogant, would it? Because if it would, then it would be impossible for God to tell anybody anything without those people being arrogant. People who believe others will go to hell usually base it on the Bible, which they believe is the inspired word of God. Why is it arrogant just to believe that what the Bible says is true?
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
phantom
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1/6/2013 2:17:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/6/2013 2:08:46 PM, Wnope wrote:
At 1/6/2013 2:04:51 PM, phantom wrote:
At 1/6/2013 1:37:55 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 1/6/2013 12:25:20 PM, phantom wrote:
To atheists, secularists and just anyone who qualifies; does it offend you at all when religious people tell you that you're going to hell for eternity and that you deserve it?

It doesn't anger or offend me. Of course I'm a Christian, and I think people are going to hell who deserve it. But even if I were not a Christian, I don't think it would anger or offend me. It's either true or not's not true, so who cares whether it's offensive or not? If a person really believes that I'm in danger, then they ought to warn me. If anything, I should be offended by a person who truly believes I'm in danger but does nothing warn me.

Good points definitely, but it's more of an issue of the fact that they believe it, not so much that they're warning you about it.

If that's the case, then I take "you're going to hell" to be no more offensive than "I am part of mainstream American protestant christianity."

I already said it doesn't offend me really. The strongest emotion it excites in me, is probably anger or frustration. It's not a strong reaction but that's what I feel. Mainstream Christianity does entail that I'm going to hell but I don't know the difference of emotions I would experience. Psychologically, it's only natural that I feel it stronger when it's outright stated instead of implied by the sentence. But I also agree partially with phil that if you believe someone's going to hell, it's only natural you should feel a duty to warn him. Mainstream Christianity is the traditional view of hell as well as conservative creationism so maybe that would excite more frustration.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
philochristos
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1/6/2013 2:18:46 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/6/2013 2:12:26 PM, Franz_Reynard wrote:
Such people color most of their interaction with you with such judgement. From cursing to expressing sexual interest, it is practically insufferable to associate with such people. It's not so much that they think you're going to hell, but more that it appears they want to see you go.

You must hang out with very different people than I do. Most of the Christians I know bend over backwards to present the gospel in the least offensive way they can without stripping it of its substance. Although I've been a Christian most of my life, it's rare that I run into people who are really demeaning in their criticism of sinners. I don't sense any mean-spiritedness at all in most of the Christians I have known.
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
1Devilsadvocate
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1/6/2013 2:19:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Not at all.

Why would it?
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Oryus
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1/6/2013 2:23:31 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/6/2013 2:15:02 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 1/6/2013 2:07:39 PM, Oryus wrote:
For them to think I'm going to hell requires that they judge me epically and, on top of that, have the arrogance to assume they know what God will do.

Why do you think it's arrogant for a person to think they know what God will do?
Oh, I don't know. Maybe because they are a puny, ignorant ape and God is supposed to be an omnipotent, omniscient being?

Suppose God told them what he would do. That wouldn't make them automatically arrogant, would it? Because if it would, then it would be impossible for God to tell anybody anything without those people being arrogant.

Not necessarily just arrogant. They might be considered crazy as well. But that is the plight of somebody who professes to have communicated with god. If I believed in god, I'd see it as a worthy sacrifice.

People who believe others will go to hell usually base it on the Bible, which they believe is the inspired word of God. Why is it arrogant just to believe that what the Bible says is true?

Because, first of all, you don't know me in the way that you believe god knows me. God knows EVERYTHING about me and you only know superficial things about me- and you always will only know superficial things about me. And, secondly, as far as your interpretation of the bible goes, I hope your interpretation is the correct one- because there are plenty of interpretations to go around.
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phantom
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1/6/2013 2:24:12 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/6/2013 2:19:39 PM, 1Devilsadvocate wrote:
Not at all.

Why would it?

I've observed it does for a lot of people. It doesn't for me much but I can understand why for others. I don't think anyone deserves hell. If I deserved hell, I would have to be the most morally deranged thing. In some people's eyes, stating you deserve hell is equivalent to such. It's thus a very offensive statement to them.

I'm just wanting to see peoples answers.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
brian_eggleston
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1/6/2013 2:26:29 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I don't feel angry, I just feel sorry for them, in the same way as I feel sorry for other people with mental health issues. I only feel angry if the local paediatric social services department neglects to take their kids off them.
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Franz_Reynard
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1/6/2013 2:28:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/6/2013 2:18:46 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 1/6/2013 2:12:26 PM, Franz_Reynard wrote:
Such people color most of their interaction with you with such judgement. From cursing to expressing sexual interest, it is practically insufferable to associate with such people. It's not so much that they think you're going to hell, but more that it appears they want to see you go.

You must hang out with very different people than I do. Most of the Christians I know bend over backwards to present the gospel in the least offensive way they can without stripping it of its substance. Although I've been a Christian most of my life, it's rare that I run into people who are really demeaning in their criticism of sinners. I don't sense any mean-spiritedness at all in most of the Christians I have known.

I find that Christians, like most religious people, can be very judgmental, but that isn't much different from most people who subscribe to an ideology in general. There's another thread just like this in the politics section asking whether it's possible to be friends with someone who has a contrasted political perspective.

Humans are pretty caught up with their ideologies due to a great deal of emotional investment.

Nonetheless, when it comes to the Christian Bible in particular, it's made fairly clear in later books that no one has access to God's plan and they cannot determine what his judgment will be. Only, that all humans are conniving evil assh0les and they all deserve to burn, but Jesus will come to their defense, equipped with a much more intimate understanding of what it is to be human. All humans, despite their ideologies, will become "one with God" (or something like this) as long as they live a relatively righteous life.

Which means, of course, that Church should be a civil service that functions something like a charity organization, rather than a membership club for people who subscribe to a given set of perspectives. This would belie any exclusion, including of those who follow different faiths.

And, that no one should be telling anyone else where they think they're going. How rude.
000ike
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1/6/2013 3:14:47 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
It doesn't really offend me. They're misguided people.

What does annoy me is when they say they'll "pray for me"...the reason why I find this one more annoying is because the insult and ill-intention in it is more concealed.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
drafterman
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1/6/2013 3:21:21 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/6/2013 3:14:47 PM, 000ike wrote:
It doesn't really offend me. They're misguided people.

What does annoy me is when they say they'll "pray for me"...the reason why I find this one more annoying is because the insult and ill-intention in it is more concealed.

Ding.
malcolmxy
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1/6/2013 4:20:28 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/6/2013 12:25:20 PM, phantom wrote:
To atheists, secularists and just anyone who qualifies; does it offend you at all when religious people tell you that you're going to hell for eternity and that you deserve it?

Personally, it more angers me than offends me. I realize they also think they deserve hell usually, but I think the morality of it is just absurd and that's why it angers me. It doesn't offend me that much.

It depends. What is the intention when they're saying it? Given their beliefs, are they chastising or do they genuinely want to "save" me and spare me an eternity in their helI?

If it's the latter, I can appreciate the sentiment, and actually find it to be something of a nicety. It doesn't matter, and in the end, I am going to their helI, because chaos and nirvana are constructs of the mind.

Thus, if their consciousness exists beyond their human form, I will not exist in the consciousness with them. Their loss. They'll be chillin' in mine, so what do I care if they choose to limit their personal reality in the quantum netherworld?
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socialpinko
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1/6/2013 4:25:30 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I don't think I am so why do I care?
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1/6/2013 4:48:11 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Would it offend me if a dunce came up to me and said "blobity bloo blah ble blah"? No.

Unintelligible, nonsensical dribble offends me not at all.
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1/6/2013 4:58:35 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
"Jesus died for ALL MEN and all men can be saved if they LOVE!" Atheists Included!!

Jesus judges by what he finds in a mans heart!
Hebrews 3:8
Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:

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johnlubba
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1/6/2013 5:16:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/6/2013 12:25:20 PM, phantom wrote:
To atheists, secularists and just anyone who qualifies; does it offend you at all when religious people tell you that you're going to hell for eternity and that you deserve it?

Personally, it more angers me than offends me. I realize they also think they deserve hell usually, but I think the morality of it is just absurd and that's why it angers me. It doesn't offend me that much.

I am a theist but not a Christian, and I don't get offended or angry, unless I am getting big time Bible bashed. But I do believe in some sort of repercussions for our actions, something like a corrective Karma sometmes within the guise of punishment, which is even active in this life and probably carries over into the next.
johnlubba
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1/6/2013 5:18:28 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/6/2013 1:37:55 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 1/6/2013 12:25:20 PM, phantom wrote:
To atheists, secularists and just anyone who qualifies; does it offend you at all when religious people tell you that you're going to hell for eternity and that you deserve it?

It doesn't anger or offend me. Of course I'm a Christian, and I think people are going to hell who deserve it. But even if I were not a Christian, I don't think it would anger or offend me. It's either true or not's not true, so who cares whether it's offensive or not? If a person really believes that I'm in danger, then they ought to warn me. If anything, I should be offended by a person who truly believes I'm in danger but does nothing warn me.

Good point, you are natural debater.
Paradox_7
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1/7/2013 8:28:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/6/2013 2:28:23 PM, Franz_Reynard wrote:
I find that Christians, like most religious people, can be very judgmental, but that isn't much different from most people who subscribe to an ideology in general. There's another thread just like this in the politics section asking whether it's possible to be friends with someone who has a contrasted political perspective.

I'm sorry, but I haven't seen any Christians act out on their judgements of others as I've seen non-theists. This thread for example, is pretty full with atheists judging people who believe hell exists and that people will go there, as mentally ill, or sadistic.

Is that not judgement?

Humans are pretty caught up with their ideologies due to a great deal of emotional investment.

Agree'd

Nonetheless, when it comes to the Christian Bible in particular, it's made fairly clear in later books that no one has access to God's plan and they cannot determine what his judgment will be.

Agree'd to an extent. We don't know who those are who will truly suffer being left by God, but we know why they will be.

Only, that all humans are conniving evil assh0les and they all deserve to burn, but Jesus will come to their defense, equipped with a much more intimate understanding of what it is to be human. All humans, despite their ideologies, will become "one with God" (or something like this) as long as they live a relatively righteous life.

This is true of every religion/ideology, except Christianity. See, Monergism.

Which means, of course, that Church should be a civil service that functions something like a charity organization, rather than a membership club for people who subscribe to a given set of perspectives. This would belie any exclusion, including of those who follow different faiths.

Agree'd, to an extent. If I start a lutheran church, it wouldn't make much sense for me to allow other denominations to come in and start preaching things contrary to what I believe is true, would it?

And, that no one should be telling anyone else where they think they're going. How rude.

Amen.
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