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How do YECs Read the Newspaper?

Wnope
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1/15/2013 3:27:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I've always been curious how Young Earth Creationists can simultaneously claim the universe is 6,000 years old and yet still read current newspaper accounts of basic discoveries in astronomy.

I like to think YEC don't wish to discard the foundations of modern science (quantum physics, general/special relativity, chemistry) meaning they don't believe light is created without a source, light does not travel faster than the speed of light, and gravity does not have a predictable relationship with mass.

However, take some random recent news clips about astronomy:

Astronomers Find Massive Supply of Gas Around Modern Galaxies
" Lehner and collaborators searched for the signature of gas within about 100,000-300,000 light-years of galaxies, identifying this gas due to its strong hydrogen absorption, a known signature of circumgalactic gas. "

Biggest Structure in Universe: Large Quasar Group Is 4 Billion Light Years Across
"'Even travelling at the speed of light, it would take 4 billion ... years to cross."

Hubble Sees Violent Star Formation Episodes in Dwarf Galaxies
"Lying in the constellation of Ursa Major (The Great Bear), NGC 3738 is located about 12 million light-years from the sun, and belongs to the Messier 81 group of galaxies. This galaxy -- first observed by astronomer William Herschel back in 1789 -- is a nearby example of a blue compact dwarf, the faintest type of starburst galaxy."

NONE of these articles make sense under YEC. It is impossible for scientists to be able to talk about seeing light that has traveled more than 6,000 lightyears unless YECs break one of the foundations of general relativity and/or quantum physics. Yet the HUBBLE TELESCOPE spots a galaxy 12 million lightyears away?

So, Young Earth Creationists, how do you cope with basic astronomical discoveries?
Suqua
Posts: 433
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1/15/2013 3:35:45 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/15/2013 3:27:41 PM, Wnope wrote:
I've always been curious how Young Earth Creationists can simultaneously claim the universe is 6,000 years old and yet still read current newspaper accounts of basic discoveries in astronomy.

I like to think YEC don't wish to discard the foundations of modern science (quantum physics, general/special relativity, chemistry) meaning they don't believe light is created without a source, light does not travel faster than the speed of light, and gravity does not have a predictable relationship with mass.

However, take some random recent news clips about astronomy:

Astronomers Find Massive Supply of Gas Around Modern Galaxies
" Lehner and collaborators searched for the signature of gas within about 100,000-300,000 light-years of galaxies, identifying this gas due to its strong hydrogen absorption, a known signature of circumgalactic gas. "

Biggest Structure in Universe: Large Quasar Group Is 4 Billion Light Years Across
"'Even travelling at the speed of light, it would take 4 billion ... years to cross."

Hubble Sees Violent Star Formation Episodes in Dwarf Galaxies
"Lying in the constellation of Ursa Major (The Great Bear), NGC 3738 is located about 12 million light-years from the sun, and belongs to the Messier 81 group of galaxies. This galaxy -- first observed by astronomer William Herschel back in 1789 -- is a nearby example of a blue compact dwarf, the faintest type of starburst galaxy."

NONE of these articles make sense under YEC. It is impossible for scientists to be able to talk about seeing light that has traveled more than 6,000 lightyears unless YECs break one of the foundations of general relativity and/or quantum physics. Yet the HUBBLE TELESCOPE spots a galaxy 12 million lightyears away?

So, Young Earth Creationists, how do you cope with basic astronomical discoveries?

I don't have a problem with big universe!
Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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1/15/2013 3:40:57 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/15/2013 3:35:45 PM, Suqua wrote:
At 1/15/2013 3:27:41 PM, Wnope wrote:
I've always been curious how Young Earth Creationists can simultaneously claim the universe is 6,000 years old and yet still read current newspaper accounts of basic discoveries in astronomy.

I like to think YEC don't wish to discard the foundations of modern science (quantum physics, general/special relativity, chemistry) meaning they don't believe light is created without a source, light does not travel faster than the speed of light, and gravity does not have a predictable relationship with mass.

However, take some random recent news clips about astronomy:

Astronomers Find Massive Supply of Gas Around Modern Galaxies
" Lehner and collaborators searched for the signature of gas within about 100,000-300,000 light-years of galaxies, identifying this gas due to its strong hydrogen absorption, a known signature of circumgalactic gas. "

Biggest Structure in Universe: Large Quasar Group Is 4 Billion Light Years Across
"'Even travelling at the speed of light, it would take 4 billion ... years to cross."

Hubble Sees Violent Star Formation Episodes in Dwarf Galaxies
"Lying in the constellation of Ursa Major (The Great Bear), NGC 3738 is located about 12 million light-years from the sun, and belongs to the Messier 81 group of galaxies. This galaxy -- first observed by astronomer William Herschel back in 1789 -- is a nearby example of a blue compact dwarf, the faintest type of starburst galaxy."

NONE of these articles make sense under YEC. It is impossible for scientists to be able to talk about seeing light that has traveled more than 6,000 lightyears unless YECs break one of the foundations of general relativity and/or quantum physics. Yet the HUBBLE TELESCOPE spots a galaxy 12 million lightyears away?

So, Young Earth Creationists, how do you cope with basic astronomical discoveries?

I don't have a problem with big universe!

But do you think we can actually SEE this universe the way the newspaper claims? That is, we can see something 12 bmllion lightyears away?

When light comes from the sun, it takes 8 minutes to get to earth. If light comes from a star 12 million lightyears away, it takes 12 million years to get there.
Ramshutu
Posts: 4,063
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1/15/2013 3:43:19 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
My favorite one is how YEC's have multiple papers in AIG about how innacurate, distorted and junk all radiometric dating is. Then a bunch of papers showing that the same radiometric dating provide dates that agree with the flood. That made me lol.
Suqua
Posts: 433
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1/15/2013 6:57:02 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/15/2013 3:40:57 PM, Wnope wrote:
At 1/15/2013 3:35:45 PM, Suqua wrote:
At 1/15/2013 3:27:41 PM, Wnope wrote:
I've always been curious how Young Earth Creationists can simultaneously claim the universe is 6,000 years old and yet still read current newspaper accounts of basic discoveries in astronomy.

I like to think YEC don't wish to discard the foundations of modern science (quantum physics, general/special relativity, chemistry) meaning they don't believe light is created without a source, light does not travel faster than the speed of light, and gravity does not have a predictable relationship with mass.

However, take some random recent news clips about astronomy:

Astronomers Find Massive Supply of Gas Around Modern Galaxies
" Lehner and collaborators searched for the signature of gas within about 100,000-300,000 light-years of galaxies, identifying this gas due to its strong hydrogen absorption, a known signature of circumgalactic gas. "

Biggest Structure in Universe: Large Quasar Group Is 4 Billion Light Years Across
"'Even travelling at the speed of light, it would take 4 billion ... years to cross."

Hubble Sees Violent Star Formation Episodes in Dwarf Galaxies
"Lying in the constellation of Ursa Major (The Great Bear), NGC 3738 is located about 12 million light-years from the sun, and belongs to the Messier 81 group of galaxies. This galaxy -- first observed by astronomer William Herschel back in 1789 -- is a nearby example of a blue compact dwarf, the faintest type of starburst galaxy."

NONE of these articles make sense under YEC. It is impossible for scientists to be able to talk about seeing light that has traveled more than 6,000 lightyears unless YECs break one of the foundations of general relativity and/or quantum physics. Yet the HUBBLE TELESCOPE spots a galaxy 12 million lightyears away?

So, Young Earth Creationists, how do you cope with basic astronomical discoveries?

I don't have a problem with big universe!

But do you think we can actually SEE this universe the way the newspaper claims? That is, we can see something 12 bmllion lightyears away?

When light comes from the sun, it takes 8 minutes to get to earth. If light comes from a star 12 million lightyears away, it takes 12 million years to get there.

Are you saying that some believe in a young universe? Not just this solar system.! I haven't really looked at that area of the Bible. I'll do some research. Sorry can't be of any use, hope someone more up on that can help, bye!
Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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1/15/2013 7:15:35 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/15/2013 6:57:02 PM, Suqua wrote:
At 1/15/2013 3:40:57 PM, Wnope wrote:
At 1/15/2013 3:35:45 PM, Suqua wrote:
At 1/15/2013 3:27:41 PM, Wnope wrote:
I've always been curious how Young Earth Creationists can simultaneously claim the universe is 6,000 years old and yet still read current newspaper accounts of basic discoveries in astronomy.

I like to think YEC don't wish to discard the foundations of modern science (quantum physics, general/special relativity, chemistry) meaning they don't believe light is created without a source, light does not travel faster than the speed of light, and gravity does not have a predictable relationship with mass.

However, take some random recent news clips about astronomy:

Astronomers Find Massive Supply of Gas Around Modern Galaxies
" Lehner and collaborators searched for the signature of gas within about 100,000-300,000 light-years of galaxies, identifying this gas due to its strong hydrogen absorption, a known signature of circumgalactic gas. "

Biggest Structure in Universe: Large Quasar Group Is 4 Billion Light Years Across
"'Even travelling at the speed of light, it would take 4 billion ... years to cross."

Hubble Sees Violent Star Formation Episodes in Dwarf Galaxies
"Lying in the constellation of Ursa Major (The Great Bear), NGC 3738 is located about 12 million light-years from the sun, and belongs to the Messier 81 group of galaxies. This galaxy -- first observed by astronomer William Herschel back in 1789 -- is a nearby example of a blue compact dwarf, the faintest type of starburst galaxy."

NONE of these articles make sense under YEC. It is impossible for scientists to be able to talk about seeing light that has traveled more than 6,000 lightyears unless YECs break one of the foundations of general relativity and/or quantum physics. Yet the HUBBLE TELESCOPE spots a galaxy 12 million lightyears away?

So, Young Earth Creationists, how do you cope with basic astronomical discoveries?

I don't have a problem with big universe!

But do you think we can actually SEE this universe the way the newspaper claims? That is, we can see something 12 bmllion lightyears away?

When light comes from the sun, it takes 8 minutes to get to earth. If light comes from a star 12 million lightyears away, it takes 12 million years to get there.

Are you saying that some believe in a young universe? Not just this solar system.! I haven't really looked at that area of the Bible. I'll do some research. Sorry can't be of any use, hope someone more up on that can help, bye!

Young Earth Creationists in general think the universe was created from 6,000 to 20,000 (most conservative estimate I've heard) years ago.
medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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1/15/2013 8:07:21 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/15/2013 3:27:41 PM, Wnope wrote:
I've always been curious how Young Earth Creationists can simultaneously claim the universe is 6,000 years old and yet still read current newspaper accounts of basic discoveries in astronomy.

I like to think YEC don't wish to discard the foundations of modern science (quantum physics, general/special relativity, chemistry) meaning they don't believe light is created without a source, light does not travel faster than the speed of light, and gravity does not have a predictable relationship with mass.

However, take some random recent news clips about astronomy:

Astronomers Find Massive Supply of Gas Around Modern Galaxies
" Lehner and collaborators searched for the signature of gas within about 100,000-300,000 light-years of galaxies, identifying this gas due to its strong hydrogen absorption, a known signature of circumgalactic gas. "

Biggest Structure in Universe: Large Quasar Group Is 4 Billion Light Years Across
"'Even travelling at the speed of light, it would take 4 billion ... years to cross."

Hubble Sees Violent Star Formation Episodes in Dwarf Galaxies
"Lying in the constellation of Ursa Major (The Great Bear), NGC 3738 is located about 12 million light-years from the sun, and belongs to the Messier 81 group of galaxies. This galaxy -- first observed by astronomer William Herschel back in 1789 -- is a nearby example of a blue compact dwarf, the faintest type of starburst galaxy."

NONE of these articles make sense under YEC. It is impossible for scientists to be able to talk about seeing light that has traveled more than 6,000 lightyears unless YECs break one of the foundations of general relativity and/or quantum physics. Yet the HUBBLE TELESCOPE spots a galaxy 12 million lightyears away?

So, Young Earth Creationists, how do you cope with basic astronomical discoveries?

Ecclesiastes tells us that no man can know the works of God from beginning to end. With that in mind, there comes a time in the life of every Christian, theist, etc., where we have to just admit the truth, and say the dreaded words...I don't know.

For me, this is one such case. The issue of starlight and time is something that I've never been able to figure out, but I'm not terribly distressed by not being able to understand it. If I could figure out how God did everything, would I really be able to say that God is a whole lot smarter than me?? It should also be noted that I'm not saying an answer doesn't exist, for your question. Someone else may be able to answer it but I can't.

In short, I don't concede that this issue disproves God's existence, I just concede that this is one of the areas where He has me stumped.

Inb4 "God of the gaps".
SarcasticIndeed
Posts: 2,215
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1/15/2013 8:22:56 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/15/2013 8:07:21 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 1/15/2013 3:27:41 PM, Wnope wrote:
I've always been curious how Young Earth Creationists can simultaneously claim the universe is 6,000 years old and yet still read current newspaper accounts of basic discoveries in astronomy.

I like to think YEC don't wish to discard the foundations of modern science (quantum physics, general/special relativity, chemistry) meaning they don't believe light is created without a source, light does not travel faster than the speed of light, and gravity does not have a predictable relationship with mass.

However, take some random recent news clips about astronomy:

Astronomers Find Massive Supply of Gas Around Modern Galaxies
" Lehner and collaborators searched for the signature of gas within about 100,000-300,000 light-years of galaxies, identifying this gas due to its strong hydrogen absorption, a known signature of circumgalactic gas. "

Biggest Structure in Universe: Large Quasar Group Is 4 Billion Light Years Across
"'Even travelling at the speed of light, it would take 4 billion ... years to cross."

Hubble Sees Violent Star Formation Episodes in Dwarf Galaxies
"Lying in the constellation of Ursa Major (The Great Bear), NGC 3738 is located about 12 million light-years from the sun, and belongs to the Messier 81 group of galaxies. This galaxy -- first observed by astronomer William Herschel back in 1789 -- is a nearby example of a blue compact dwarf, the faintest type of starburst galaxy."

NONE of these articles make sense under YEC. It is impossible for scientists to be able to talk about seeing light that has traveled more than 6,000 lightyears unless YECs break one of the foundations of general relativity and/or quantum physics. Yet the HUBBLE TELESCOPE spots a galaxy 12 million lightyears away?

So, Young Earth Creationists, how do you cope with basic astronomical discoveries?

Ecclesiastes tells us that no man can know the works of God from beginning to end. With that in mind, there comes a time in the life of every Christian, theist, etc., where we have to just admit the truth, and say the dreaded words...I don't know.

For me, this is one such case. The issue of starlight and time is something that I've never been able to figure out, but I'm not terribly distressed by not being able to understand it. If I could figure out how God did everything, would I really be able to say that God is a whole lot smarter than me?? It should also be noted that I'm not saying an answer doesn't exist, for your question. Someone else may be able to answer it but I can't.

In short, I don't concede that this issue disproves God's existence, I just concede that this is one of the areas where He has me stumped.

Inb4 "God of the gaps".

Why not just start believing in evolution and stuff?
<SIGNATURE CENSORED> nac
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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1/15/2013 8:29:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/15/2013 3:27:41 PM, Wnope wrote:
I've always been curious how Young Earth Creationists can simultaneously claim the universe is 6,000 years old and yet still read current newspaper accounts of basic discoveries in astronomy.

I like to think YEC don't wish to discard the foundations of modern science (quantum physics, general/special relativity, chemistry) meaning they don't believe light is created without a source, light does not travel faster than the speed of light, and gravity does not have a predictable relationship with mass.

However, take some random recent news clips about astronomy:

Astronomers Find Massive Supply of Gas Around Modern Galaxies
" Lehner and collaborators searched for the signature of gas within about 100,000-300,000 light-years of galaxies, identifying this gas due to its strong hydrogen absorption, a known signature of circumgalactic gas. "

Biggest Structure in Universe: Large Quasar Group Is 4 Billion Light Years Across
"'Even travelling at the speed of light, it would take 4 billion ... years to cross."

Hubble Sees Violent Star Formation Episodes in Dwarf Galaxies
"Lying in the constellation of Ursa Major (The Great Bear), NGC 3738 is located about 12 million light-years from the sun, and belongs to the Messier 81 group of galaxies. This galaxy -- first observed by astronomer William Herschel back in 1789 -- is a nearby example of a blue compact dwarf, the faintest type of starburst galaxy."

NONE of these articles make sense under YEC. It is impossible for scientists to be able to talk about seeing light that has traveled more than 6,000 lightyears unless YECs break one of the foundations of general relativity and/or quantum physics. Yet the HUBBLE TELESCOPE spots a galaxy 12 million lightyears away?

So, Young Earth Creationists, how do you cope with basic astronomical discoveries?

http://25.media.tumblr.com...
Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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1/15/2013 8:44:34 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/15/2013 8:07:21 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 1/15/2013 3:27:41 PM, Wnope wrote:
I've always been curious how Young Earth Creationists can simultaneously claim the universe is 6,000 years old and yet still read current newspaper accounts of basic discoveries in astronomy.

I like to think YEC don't wish to discard the foundations of modern science (quantum physics, general/special relativity, chemistry) meaning they don't believe light is created without a source, light does not travel faster than the speed of light, and gravity does not have a predictable relationship with mass.

However, take some random recent news clips about astronomy:

Astronomers Find Massive Supply of Gas Around Modern Galaxies
" Lehner and collaborators searched for the signature of gas within about 100,000-300,000 light-years of galaxies, identifying this gas due to its strong hydrogen absorption, a known signature of circumgalactic gas. "

Biggest Structure in Universe: Large Quasar Group Is 4 Billion Light Years Across
"'Even travelling at the speed of light, it would take 4 billion ... years to cross."

Hubble Sees Violent Star Formation Episodes in Dwarf Galaxies
"Lying in the constellation of Ursa Major (The Great Bear), NGC 3738 is located about 12 million light-years from the sun, and belongs to the Messier 81 group of galaxies. This galaxy -- first observed by astronomer William Herschel back in 1789 -- is a nearby example of a blue compact dwarf, the faintest type of starburst galaxy."

NONE of these articles make sense under YEC. It is impossible for scientists to be able to talk about seeing light that has traveled more than 6,000 lightyears unless YECs break one of the foundations of general relativity and/or quantum physics. Yet the HUBBLE TELESCOPE spots a galaxy 12 million lightyears away?

So, Young Earth Creationists, how do you cope with basic astronomical discoveries?

Ecclesiastes tells us that no man can know the works of God from beginning to end. With that in mind, there comes a time in the life of every Christian, theist, etc., where we have to just admit the truth, and say the dreaded words...I don't know.

For me, this is one such case. The issue of starlight and time is something that I've never been able to figure out, but I'm not terribly distressed by not being able to understand it. If I could figure out how God did everything, would I really be able to say that God is a whole lot smarter than me?? It should also be noted that I'm not saying an answer doesn't exist, for your question. Someone else may be able to answer it but I can't.

In short, I don't concede that this issue disproves God's existence, I just concede that this is one of the areas where He has me stumped.

Inb4 "God of the gaps".

So, you're not terribly distressed that all of modern science, not to mention astronomy, points towards the universe being older than 6,000 years, and nothing but your personal interpretation of the Bible seems to argue otherwise?

You are taking the equivalent of a flat earth stance. Religious scientists say the universe is billions of years old, but god started things off.

How can we possibly know how many miles it is to the moon before we go there, we can figure out how many miles to the sun, how may miles in lightyear, but the moment you cross a threshold of 6,000 lightyears all observation techniques fail?

This goes far beyond simple "I don't know" this goes into direct denial of observational evidence accepted by the entire, I repeat, ENTIRE astronomical community without so much as a raised eyebrow.

Your "I don't know" does not cover some complex String Theory, this is grade school facts like "the earth is x miles from the sun" and "the milky way is x miles long."
medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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1/15/2013 9:03:00 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/15/2013 8:22:56 PM, SarcasticIndeed wrote:
At 1/15/2013 8:07:21 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 1/15/2013 3:27:41 PM, Wnope wrote:
I've always been curious how Young Earth Creationists can simultaneously claim the universe is 6,000 years old and yet still read current newspaper accounts of basic discoveries in astronomy.

I like to think YEC don't wish to discard the foundations of modern science (quantum physics, general/special relativity, chemistry) meaning they don't believe light is created without a source, light does not travel faster than the speed of light, and gravity does not have a predictable relationship with mass.

However, take some random recent news clips about astronomy:

Astronomers Find Massive Supply of Gas Around Modern Galaxies
" Lehner and collaborators searched for the signature of gas within about 100,000-300,000 light-years of galaxies, identifying this gas due to its strong hydrogen absorption, a known signature of circumgalactic gas. "

Biggest Structure in Universe: Large Quasar Group Is 4 Billion Light Years Across
"'Even travelling at the speed of light, it would take 4 billion ... years to cross."

Hubble Sees Violent Star Formation Episodes in Dwarf Galaxies
"Lying in the constellation of Ursa Major (The Great Bear), NGC 3738 is located about 12 million light-years from the sun, and belongs to the Messier 81 group of galaxies. This galaxy -- first observed by astronomer William Herschel back in 1789 -- is a nearby example of a blue compact dwarf, the faintest type of starburst galaxy."

NONE of these articles make sense under YEC. It is impossible for scientists to be able to talk about seeing light that has traveled more than 6,000 lightyears unless YECs break one of the foundations of general relativity and/or quantum physics. Yet the HUBBLE TELESCOPE spots a galaxy 12 million lightyears away?

So, Young Earth Creationists, how do you cope with basic astronomical discoveries?

Ecclesiastes tells us that no man can know the works of God from beginning to end. With that in mind, there comes a time in the life of every Christian, theist, etc., where we have to just admit the truth, and say the dreaded words...I don't know.

For me, this is one such case. The issue of starlight and time is something that I've never been able to figure out, but I'm not terribly distressed by not being able to understand it. If I could figure out how God did everything, would I really be able to say that God is a whole lot smarter than me?? It should also be noted that I'm not saying an answer doesn't exist, for your question. Someone else may be able to answer it but I can't.

In short, I don't concede that this issue disproves God's existence, I just concede that this is one of the areas where He has me stumped.

Inb4 "God of the gaps".

Why not just start believing in evolution and stuff?

See the link that Drafter posted...haha

Seriously though, common descent is in direct conflict with the Bible. If I'm going to throw out Genesis, then Jesus' resurrection makes absolutely no sense. What's left of Christianity if you throw all that out??
DakotaKrafick
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1/15/2013 9:09:20 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I thought the thread title was the set-up for a joke, so I came here looking for the punchline. Needless to say, I was quite disappointed :(
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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1/15/2013 9:15:18 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/15/2013 9:03:00 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 1/15/2013 8:22:56 PM, SarcasticIndeed wrote:
At 1/15/2013 8:07:21 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 1/15/2013 3:27:41 PM, Wnope wrote:
I've always been curious how Young Earth Creationists can simultaneously claim the universe is 6,000 years old and yet still read current newspaper accounts of basic discoveries in astronomy.

I like to think YEC don't wish to discard the foundations of modern science (quantum physics, general/special relativity, chemistry) meaning they don't believe light is created without a source, light does not travel faster than the speed of light, and gravity does not have a predictable relationship with mass.

However, take some random recent news clips about astronomy:

Astronomers Find Massive Supply of Gas Around Modern Galaxies
" Lehner and collaborators searched for the signature of gas within about 100,000-300,000 light-years of galaxies, identifying this gas due to its strong hydrogen absorption, a known signature of circumgalactic gas. "

Biggest Structure in Universe: Large Quasar Group Is 4 Billion Light Years Across
"'Even travelling at the speed of light, it would take 4 billion ... years to cross."

Hubble Sees Violent Star Formation Episodes in Dwarf Galaxies
"Lying in the constellation of Ursa Major (The Great Bear), NGC 3738 is located about 12 million light-years from the sun, and belongs to the Messier 81 group of galaxies. This galaxy -- first observed by astronomer William Herschel back in 1789 -- is a nearby example of a blue compact dwarf, the faintest type of starburst galaxy."

NONE of these articles make sense under YEC. It is impossible for scientists to be able to talk about seeing light that has traveled more than 6,000 lightyears unless YECs break one of the foundations of general relativity and/or quantum physics. Yet the HUBBLE TELESCOPE spots a galaxy 12 million lightyears away?

So, Young Earth Creationists, how do you cope with basic astronomical discoveries?

Ecclesiastes tells us that no man can know the works of God from beginning to end. With that in mind, there comes a time in the life of every Christian, theist, etc., where we have to just admit the truth, and say the dreaded words...I don't know.

For me, this is one such case. The issue of starlight and time is something that I've never been able to figure out, but I'm not terribly distressed by not being able to understand it. If I could figure out how God did everything, would I really be able to say that God is a whole lot smarter than me?? It should also be noted that I'm not saying an answer doesn't exist, for your question. Someone else may be able to answer it but I can't.

In short, I don't concede that this issue disproves God's existence, I just concede that this is one of the areas where He has me stumped.

Inb4 "God of the gaps".

Why not just start believing in evolution and stuff?

See the link that Drafter posted...haha

Seriously though, common descent is in direct conflict with the Bible. If I'm going to throw out Genesis, then Jesus' resurrection makes absolutely no sense. What's left of Christianity if you throw all that out??

What constitutes "throwing out Genesis"? Not agreeing with your interpretation of it? Millions of Christians don't and they get a long just fine while doing so. And that's a rather large non-sequitur in any case.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
1Devilsadvocate
Posts: 1,518
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1/15/2013 9:26:48 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/15/2013 3:27:41 PM, Wnope wrote:
I've always been curious how Young Earth Creationists can simultaneously claim the universe is 6,000 years old and yet still read current newspaper accounts of basic discoveries in astronomy.

I like to think YEC don't wish to discard the foundations of modern science (quantum physics, general/special relativity, chemistry) meaning they don't believe light is created without a source, light does not travel faster than the speed of light, and gravity does not have a predictable relationship with mass.

However, take some random recent news clips about astronomy:

Astronomers Find Massive Supply of Gas Around Modern Galaxies
" Lehner and collaborators searched for the signature of gas within about 100,000-300,000 light-years of galaxies, identifying this gas due to its strong hydrogen absorption, a known signature of circumgalactic gas. "

Biggest Structure in Universe: Large Quasar Group Is 4 Billion Light Years Across
"'Even travelling at the speed of light, it would take 4 billion ... years to cross."

Hubble Sees Violent Star Formation Episodes in Dwarf Galaxies
"Lying in the constellation of Ursa Major (The Great Bear), NGC 3738 is located about 12 million light-years from the sun, and belongs to the Messier 81 group of galaxies. This galaxy -- first observed by astronomer William Herschel back in 1789 -- is a nearby example of a blue compact dwarf, the faintest type of starburst galaxy."

NONE of these articles make sense under YEC. It is impossible for scientists to be able to talk about seeing light that has traveled more than 6,000 lightyears unless YECs break one of the foundations of general relativity and/or quantum physics. Yet the HUBBLE TELESCOPE spots a galaxy 12 million lightyears away?

So, Young Earth Creationists, how do you cope with basic astronomical discoveries?

Did you froget that they believe in god?
You know the bible says god created light.
So what are you asking exactly?
I cannot write in English, because of the treacherous spelling. When I am reading, I only hear it and am unable to remember what the written word looks like."
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1Devilsadvocate
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1/15/2013 9:29:24 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/15/2013 8:22:56 PM, SarcasticIndeed wrote:
At 1/15/2013 8:07:21 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 1/15/2013 3:27:41 PM, Wnope wrote:
I've always been curious how Young Earth Creationists can simultaneously claim the universe is 6,000 years old and yet still read current newspaper accounts of basic discoveries in astronomy.

I like to think YEC don't wish to discard the foundations of modern science (quantum physics, general/special relativity, chemistry) meaning they don't believe light is created without a source, light does not travel faster than the speed of light, and gravity does not have a predictable relationship with mass.

However, take some random recent news clips about astronomy:

Astronomers Find Massive Supply of Gas Around Modern Galaxies
" Lehner and collaborators searched for the signature of gas within about 100,000-300,000 light-years of galaxies, identifying this gas due to its strong hydrogen absorption, a known signature of circumgalactic gas. "

Biggest Structure in Universe: Large Quasar Group Is 4 Billion Light Years Across
"'Even travelling at the speed of light, it would take 4 billion ... years to cross."

Hubble Sees Violent Star Formation Episodes in Dwarf Galaxies
"Lying in the constellation of Ursa Major (The Great Bear), NGC 3738 is located about 12 million light-years from the sun, and belongs to the Messier 81 group of galaxies. This galaxy -- first observed by astronomer William Herschel back in 1789 -- is a nearby example of a blue compact dwarf, the faintest type of starburst galaxy."

NONE of these articles make sense under YEC. It is impossible for scientists to be able to talk about seeing light that has traveled more than 6,000 lightyears unless YECs break one of the foundations of general relativity and/or quantum physics. Yet the HUBBLE TELESCOPE spots a galaxy 12 million lightyears away?

So, Young Earth Creationists, how do you cope with basic astronomical discoveries?

Ecclesiastes tells us that no man can know the works of God from beginning to end. With that in mind, there comes a time in the life of every Christian, theist, etc., where we have to just admit the truth, and say the dreaded words...I don't know.

For me, this is one such case. The issue of starlight and time is something that I've never been able to figure out, but I'm not terribly distressed by not being able to understand it. If I could figure out how God did everything, would I really be able to say that God is a whole lot smarter than me?? It should also be noted that I'm not saying an answer doesn't exist, for your question. Someone else may be able to answer it but I can't.

In short, I don't concede that this issue disproves God's existence, I just concede that this is one of the areas where He has me stumped.

Inb4 "God of the gaps".

Why not just start believing in evolution and stuff?

As if there are no unansweres questions in evolution?
I cannot write in English, because of the treacherous spelling. When I am reading, I only hear it and am unable to remember what the written word looks like."
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FREEDO
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1/15/2013 9:33:07 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Light and distance is actually the VERY thing that struck my mind hard enough for me to change my creationism and, subsequently, my Christianity. It was a huge turning point for me. I had no way around it. And I couldn't live with myself knowing I was just choosing to ignore an apparent irrationality.
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fnord
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1/15/2013 9:33:25 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I was just thinking, It called young EARTH.

Can they agree that the universe is older?
I cannot write in English, because of the treacherous spelling. When I am reading, I only hear it and am unable to remember what the written word looks like."
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Wnope
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1/15/2013 10:17:14 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
It's a tragedy of western religions that we have the idea ingrained that religious scripture, normative teachings, only retains validity if it is historically or factually accurate.
Wnope
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1/15/2013 10:19:19 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/15/2013 9:33:25 PM, 1Devilsadvocate wrote:
I was just thinking, It called young EARTH.

Can they agree that the universe is older?

That would make them Old Earth Creationist.

In which case, this thread has no application to your beliefs.
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1/15/2013 10:20:59 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/15/2013 10:19:19 PM, Wnope wrote:
At 1/15/2013 9:33:25 PM, 1Devilsadvocate wrote:
I was just thinking, It called young EARTH.

Can they agree that the universe is older?

That would make them Old Earth Creationist.

In which case, this thread has no application to their beliefs.
FREEDO
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1/15/2013 10:23:15 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/15/2013 10:17:14 PM, Wnope wrote:
It's a tragedy of western religions that we have the idea ingrained that religious scripture, normative teachings, only retains validity if it is historically or factually accurate.

An astute statement. One UU churches would appreciate.
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fnord
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1/15/2013 10:49:26 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/15/2013 10:20:59 PM, Wnope wrote:
At 1/15/2013 10:19:19 PM, Wnope wrote:
At 1/15/2013 9:33:25 PM, 1Devilsadvocate wrote:
I was just thinking, It's called young EARTH.

Can they agree that the universe is older?

That would make them Old Earth Creationist.

In which case, this thread has no application to their beliefs.

Not sure we're on the same page here.

I'm proposing a distinction between planet earth & universe.

YEC believe that planet earth is young, but agree that the universe is old.

Old earth creationists believe the planet earth itself is billions of years old.
I cannot write in English, because of the treacherous spelling. When I am reading, I only hear it and am unable to remember what the written word looks like."
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medic0506
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1/15/2013 11:13:02 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/15/2013 8:44:34 PM, Wnope wrote:

Ecclesiastes tells us that no man can know the works of God from beginning to end. With that in mind, there comes a time in the life of every Christian, theist, etc., where we have to just admit the truth, and say the dreaded words...I don't know.

For me, this is one such case. The issue of starlight and time is something that I've never been able to figure out, but I'm not terribly distressed by not being able to understand it. If I could figure out how God did everything, would I really be able to say that God is a whole lot smarter than me?? It should also be noted that I'm not saying an answer doesn't exist, for your question. Someone else may be able to answer it but I can't.

In short, I don't concede that this issue disproves God's existence, I just concede that this is one of the areas where He has me stumped.

Inb4 "God of the gaps".

So, you're not terribly distressed that all of modern science, not to mention astronomy, points towards the universe being older than 6,000 years, and nothing but your personal interpretation of the Bible seems to argue otherwise?

In all honesty, I don't like feeling like part of the "fringe" of society, but that doesn't bother me nearly as much as this verse would, if I were an evolutionist...

2 Peter 3:5...For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

Peter spoke on this very issue, almost 2000 years ago. They are willingly ignorant that, by the word of God the heavens were of old.

You are taking the equivalent of a flat earth stance. Religious scientists say the universe is billions of years old, but god started things off.

There are also scientists who are YEC's.

How can we possibly know how many miles it is to the moon before we go there, we can figure out how many miles to the sun, how may miles in lightyear, but the moment you cross a threshold of 6,000 lightyears all observation techniques fail?

Again, I don't know the answer. Maybe He used something similar to a gravitational time dilation to age everything without any time actually passing. That may work with Genesis because the earth was made first, before the sun and moon, therefore there would be no orbit or need for rotation.

Maybe everything was in place and allowed to mature, but time didn't actually start until the sun and moon were in place, mature, and the orbital patterns began. We should work on this. Wouldn't that be awesome if both sides could be technically correct about the age of the earth and universe??

I'm gonna go out on a limb and predict that you're not going to like my idea. :)

This goes far beyond simple "I don't know" this goes into direct denial of observational evidence

So.

I can also point out a couple instances of things that you believe that go against direct observational evidence.

accepted by the entire, I repeat, ENTIRE astronomical community without so much as a raised eyebrow.

Right off the top of my head I can point out Dr. Danny Faulkner, is a creationist and astronomer. He doesn't seem too concerned about it either.

Your "I don't know" does not cover some complex String Theory, this is grade school facts like "the earth is x miles from the sun" and "the milky way is x miles long."

Ok...The Lord works in mysterious ways. If I could figure out all His ways then He wouldn't be very mysterious would He??
medic0506
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1/15/2013 11:27:08 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/15/2013 9:15:18 PM, popculturepooka wrote:

Seriously though, common descent is in direct conflict with the Bible. If I'm going to throw out Genesis, then Jesus' resurrection makes absolutely no sense. What's left of Christianity if you throw all that out??

What constitutes "throwing out Genesis"? Not agreeing with your interpretation of it? Millions of Christians don't and they get a long just fine while doing so. And that's a rather large non-sequitur in any case.

I know other people believe differently and I'm only speaking for myself. For me, without a literal reading of Genesis, I can't make much sense of the rest. I tried to be a theistic evolutionist, and that lasted about a month. I just can't make it fit together with the rest of the Bible.

One of the key points that I could never get past was the fact that the Bible says that man brought death into the world through sin. If common descent and old-earth is true, then death existed long before man ever showed up on the scene, so there goes the fall. Without the fall of man into sin, why would we need Jesus?? That's just one of the points of conflict for me.
errya
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1/16/2013 12:40:33 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/15/2013 3:27:41 PM, Wnope wrote:
I've always been curious how Young Earth Creationists can simultaneously claim the universe is 6,000 years old and yet still read current newspaper accounts of basic discoveries in astronomy.

I like to think YEC don't wish to discard the foundations of modern science (quantum physics, general/special relativity, chemistry) meaning they don't believe light is created without a source, light does not travel faster than the speed of light, and gravity does not have a predictable relationship with mass.

However, take some random recent news clips about astronomy:

Astronomers Find Massive Supply of Gas Around Modern Galaxies
" Lehner and collaborators searched for the signature of gas within about 100,000-300,000 light-years of galaxies, identifying this gas due to its strong hydrogen absorption, a known signature of circumgalactic gas. "

Biggest Structure in Universe: Large Quasar Group Is 4 Billion Light Years Across
"'Even travelling at the speed of light, it would take 4 billion ... years to cross."

Hubble Sees Violent Star Formation Episodes in Dwarf Galaxies
"Lying in the constellation of Ursa Major (The Great Bear), NGC 3738 is located about 12 million light-years from the sun, and belongs to the Messier 81 group of galaxies. This galaxy -- first observed by astronomer William Herschel back in 1789 -- is a nearby example of a blue compact dwarf, the faintest type of starburst galaxy."

NONE of these articles make sense under YEC. It is impossible for scientists to be able to talk about seeing light that has traveled more than 6,000 lightyears unless YECs break one of the foundations of general relativity and/or quantum physics. Yet the HUBBLE TELESCOPE spots a galaxy 12 million lightyears away?

So, Young Earth Creationists, how do you cope with basic astronomical discoveries?

Well, for the one about the stars, God created many stars with light partway, or already reaching the earth, so that man would be able to see the stars in the sky.
The Most Noble Lord Horatio Nelson, Viscount and Baron Nelson, of the Nile and of Burnham Thorpe in the County of Norfolk, Baron Nelson of the Nile and of Hilborough in the said County, Knight of the Most Honourable Order of the Bath, Vice Admiral of the White Squadron of the Fleet, Commander in Chief of his Majesty's Ships and Vessels in the Mediterranean, Duke of Bront" in the Kingdom of Sicily, Knight Grand Cross of the Sicilian Order of St Ferdinand and of Merit, Member of the Ottoman Ord...
SarcasticIndeed
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1/16/2013 6:45:27 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/16/2013 12:40:33 AM, errya wrote:
At 1/15/2013 3:27:41 PM, Wnope wrote:
I've always been curious how Young Earth Creationists can simultaneously claim the universe is 6,000 years old and yet still read current newspaper accounts of basic discoveries in astronomy.

I like to think YEC don't wish to discard the foundations of modern science (quantum physics, general/special relativity, chemistry) meaning they don't believe light is created without a source, light does not travel faster than the speed of light, and gravity does not have a predictable relationship with mass.

However, take some random recent news clips about astronomy:

Astronomers Find Massive Supply of Gas Around Modern Galaxies
" Lehner and collaborators searched for the signature of gas within about 100,000-300,000 light-years of galaxies, identifying this gas due to its strong hydrogen absorption, a known signature of circumgalactic gas. "

Biggest Structure in Universe: Large Quasar Group Is 4 Billion Light Years Across
"'Even travelling at the speed of light, it would take 4 billion ... years to cross."

Hubble Sees Violent Star Formation Episodes in Dwarf Galaxies
"Lying in the constellation of Ursa Major (The Great Bear), NGC 3738 is located about 12 million light-years from the sun, and belongs to the Messier 81 group of galaxies. This galaxy -- first observed by astronomer William Herschel back in 1789 -- is a nearby example of a blue compact dwarf, the faintest type of starburst galaxy."

NONE of these articles make sense under YEC. It is impossible for scientists to be able to talk about seeing light that has traveled more than 6,000 lightyears unless YECs break one of the foundations of general relativity and/or quantum physics. Yet the HUBBLE TELESCOPE spots a galaxy 12 million lightyears away?

So, Young Earth Creationists, how do you cope with basic astronomical discoveries?

Well, for the one about the stars, God created many stars with light partway, or already reaching the earth, so that man would be able to see the stars in the sky.

And in the proccess made many people confused and made this point the point of deconversion for many ex-Christians?
<SIGNATURE CENSORED> nac
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1/16/2013 7:07:15 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/16/2013 12:40:33 AM, errya wrote:
At 1/15/2013 3:27:41 PM, Wnope wrote:
I've always been curious how Young Earth Creationists can simultaneously claim the universe is 6,000 years old and yet still read current newspaper accounts of basic discoveries in astronomy.

I like to think YEC don't wish to discard the foundations of modern science (quantum physics, general/special relativity, chemistry) meaning they don't believe light is created without a source, light does not travel faster than the speed of light, and gravity does not have a predictable relationship with mass.

However, take some random recent news clips about astronomy:

Astronomers Find Massive Supply of Gas Around Modern Galaxies
" Lehner and collaborators searched for the signature of gas within about 100,000-300,000 light-years of galaxies, identifying this gas due to its strong hydrogen absorption, a known signature of circumgalactic gas. "

Biggest Structure in Universe: Large Quasar Group Is 4 Billion Light Years Across
"'Even travelling at the speed of light, it would take 4 billion ... years to cross."

Hubble Sees Violent Star Formation Episodes in Dwarf Galaxies
"Lying in the constellation of Ursa Major (The Great Bear), NGC 3738 is located about 12 million light-years from the sun, and belongs to the Messier 81 group of galaxies. This galaxy -- first observed by astronomer William Herschel back in 1789 -- is a nearby example of a blue compact dwarf, the faintest type of starburst galaxy."

NONE of these articles make sense under YEC. It is impossible for scientists to be able to talk about seeing light that has traveled more than 6,000 lightyears unless YECs break one of the foundations of general relativity and/or quantum physics. Yet the HUBBLE TELESCOPE spots a galaxy 12 million lightyears away?

So, Young Earth Creationists, how do you cope with basic astronomical discoveries?

Well, for the one about the stars, God created many stars with light partway, or already reaching the earth, so that man would be able to see the stars in the sky.

What about new starlight? We see new stars all the time. (New to us, at least).
Yet, we know their light would have taken millions of years to travel to our location.

Doesn't your argument assume that God only made "some" starlight available, while making "some other" starlight fall about 20,000 years short of reaching earth?

What is the point of that? Something with a mechanic, like "timing", indicates purpose. What is the purpose behind the timing discrepancy of starlight arrival?

Did God think we need to be kept busy updating our star charts every two weeks?
Vidi, vici, veni.
(I saw, I conquered, I came.)
tkubok
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1/16/2013 9:35:14 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/15/2013 11:27:08 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 1/15/2013 9:15:18 PM, popculturepooka wrote:

Seriously though, common descent is in direct conflict with the Bible. If I'm going to throw out Genesis, then Jesus' resurrection makes absolutely no sense. What's left of Christianity if you throw all that out??

What constitutes "throwing out Genesis"? Not agreeing with your interpretation of it? Millions of Christians don't and they get a long just fine while doing so. And that's a rather large non-sequitur in any case.

I know other people believe differently and I'm only speaking for myself. For me, without a literal reading of Genesis, I can't make much sense of the rest. I tried to be a theistic evolutionist, and that lasted about a month. I just can't make it fit together with the rest of the Bible.

One of the key points that I could never get past was the fact that the Bible says that man brought death into the world through sin. If common descent and old-earth is true, then death existed long before man ever showed up on the scene, so there goes the fall. Without the fall of man into sin, why would we need Jesus?? That's just one of the points of conflict for me.

But the same exists within the bible as well. If death didnt exist, why did anyone need to eat in the garden of eden? Eating is pleasurable only because we need to eat in order to survive. I mean, did people and animals need to breath in the garden? Was there oxygen in the garden?
Enji
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1/16/2013 11:11:29 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/15/2013 11:13:02 PM, medic0506 wrote:
In all honesty, I don't like feeling like part of the "fringe" of society, but that doesn't bother me nearly as much as this verse would, if I were an evolutionist...

2 Peter 3:5...For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

Peter spoke on this very issue, almost 2000 years ago. They are willingly ignorant that, by the word of God the heavens were of old.

This verse would bother me more if I were a YEC I think (especially considering other translations).