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Atheism And Faith In God Is A Choice

GarretKadeDupre
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1/17/2013 3:26:36 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Luke 16:19-31 put it best. Many atheists, in their pride, set the burden of proof on God to prove his existence so high that it is logically impossible to achieve.

That's what I think is the problem with atheism. They claim to be searching for the truth, but to the contrary, put faith in their atheism while making fun of religious people for their faith in God.
Proof that people witnessed living dinosaurs:
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emospongebob527
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1/17/2013 3:51:11 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/17/2013 3:26:36 PM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
Luke 16:19-31 put it best. Many atheists, in their pride, set the burden of proof on God to prove his existence so high that it is logically impossible to achieve.

P1. If Luke 16: 19-31 says, "Many atheists, in their pride, set the burden of proof on God to prove his existence so high that it is logically impossible to achieve." Then it must be true.

P2. Luke 16: 19-31 says, "Many atheists, in their pride, set the burden of proof on God to prove his existence so high that it is logically impossible to achieve."

C. It must be true.


That's what I think is the problem with atheism. They claim to be searching for the truth, but to the contrary, put faith in their atheism while making fun of religious people for their faith in God.

Lol, funny how you assume all atheists mock religious people...
"not to toot my own horn (it aint need no tooin if u know what im saying), but my writings on "viciousness: the one true viture (fancy spelling for virtue)" and my poem "A poem I wrote about DDO" put me in a class of my damn own. im just an UNRECONGIZED geniuse" -bananafana
SarcasticIndeed
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1/17/2013 3:53:36 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/17/2013 3:26:36 PM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
Luke 16:19-31 put it best. Many atheists, in their pride, set the burden of proof on God to prove his existence so high that it is logically impossible to achieve.

That's what I think is the problem with atheism. They claim to be searching for the truth, but to the contrary, put faith in their atheism while making fun of religious people for their faith in God.

You generalize all atheists so they are the same, and then base what you are saying on that invented concept of them. Needless to say, your definition of an atheist isn't right.
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GarretKadeDupre
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1/17/2013 4:07:47 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I said "Many atheists" in the first sentence. I thought it was clear I was just generalizing.

I'm not talking about every atheist.
Proof that people witnessed living dinosaurs:
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Enji
Posts: 1,022
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1/17/2013 4:10:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/17/2013 4:07:47 PM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
I said "Many atheists" in the first sentence. I thought it was clear I was just generalizing.

I'm not talking about every atheist.

I think the reason why they objected is that you then concluded based on a generalization of some atheists that this is a problem of atheism.
medic0506
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1/17/2013 4:31:04 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I don't see how the statement is factually incorrect. He didn't say all, he said many, and there are indeed many who do mock us because of their non-belief in God.
Ramshutu
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1/17/2013 4:34:46 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Most atheists don't. A lot of Atheists who are vocal about it, do; which gives the apperance that most, or at least many do. Both side make arguably unfair generalizations in this way. It's not particularly helpful.
philochristos
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1/17/2013 4:45:33 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/17/2013 3:26:36 PM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
Many atheists, in their pride, set the burden of proof on God to prove his existence so high that it is logically impossible to achieve.

That may be true, but in most cases, I don't think it has anything to do with pride. I read this book by Ronald Nash called Faith & Reason in which he explained how our entire noetic structure (the sum total of all of your beliefs) affects how we filter information and how it affects what we will believe and how much evidence it takes to get us to believe it. All of our beliefs are interconnected, so you can rarely ever change one belief without having to change several other beliefs. The reason two people can look at the same evidence, and one will be convinced but not the other, is because of their background beliefs.

For example, Catholics have an easier time believing stories about Marian apparitions than Protestants because Marian apparitions cohere more nicely with Catholic theology than with Protestant theology.

Likewise, stories about miracles are easier for supernaturalists to believe than naturalists because miracles are more consistent with a supernatural worldview than with a naturalistic worldview.

If you're faced with evidence for something you don't currently believe, that has to be weighed against everything else you believe that might be inconsistent with it. The fewer beliefs you have to adjust, and the less convictions with which you hold those beliefs, the more persuasive the evidence will seem to you.

I think people sometimes move the goal post, not because they're being dishonest or prideful, but because they themselves don't know what it would take to convince them. They make thing some bit of evidence would convince them, but when faced with the evidence, the still find themselves doubting.
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
SarcasticIndeed
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1/17/2013 4:47:08 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/17/2013 4:07:47 PM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
I said "Many atheists" in the first sentence. I thought it was clear I was just generalizing.

I'm not talking about every atheist.

Yet then you say "That's what I think is the problem with atheism" I don't see this sencence saying anywhere that it's refering to just atheists who mock people.
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philochristos
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1/17/2013 4:47:53 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/17/2013 4:45:33 PM, philochristos wrote:
They make thing some bit of evidence would convince them, but when faced with the evidence, the still find themselves doubting.

That was supposed to say, "They may think some bit of evidence would convince them, but when faced with the evidence, the still find themselves doubting."
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
Enji
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1/17/2013 4:53:03 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/17/2013 4:45:33 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 1/17/2013 3:26:36 PM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
Many atheists, in their pride, set the burden of proof on God to prove his existence so high that it is logically impossible to achieve.

That may be true, but in most cases, I don't think it has anything to do with pride. I read this book by Ronald Nash called Faith & Reason in which he explained how our entire noetic structure (the sum total of all of your beliefs) affects how we filter information and how it affects what we will believe and how much evidence it takes to get us to believe it. All of our beliefs are interconnected, so you can rarely ever change one belief without having to change several other beliefs. The reason two people can look at the same evidence, and one will be convinced but not the other, is because of their background beliefs.

For example, Catholics have an easier time believing stories about Marian apparitions than Protestants because Marian apparitions cohere more nicely with Catholic theology than with Protestant theology.

Likewise, stories about miracles are easier for supernaturalists to believe than naturalists because miracles are more consistent with a supernatural worldview than with a naturalistic worldview.

If you're faced with evidence for something you don't currently believe, that has to be weighed against everything else you believe that might be inconsistent with it. The fewer beliefs you have to adjust, and the less convictions with which you hold those beliefs, the more persuasive the evidence will seem to you.

I think people sometimes move the goal post, not because they're being dishonest or prideful, but because they themselves don't know what it would take to convince them. They make thing some bit of evidence would convince them, but when faced with the evidence, the still find themselves doubting.

I would agree with this.
drafterman
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1/17/2013 5:28:09 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/17/2013 3:26:36 PM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
Luke 16:19-31 put it best. Many atheists, in their pride, set the burden of proof on God to prove his existence so high that it is logically impossible to achieve.

Like 16:31 - "He said to him, "If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.""

Translation: God is a lazy bastard.


That's what I think is the problem with atheism. They claim to be searching for the truth, but to the contrary, put faith in their atheism while making fun of religious people for their faith in God.
FREEDO
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1/17/2013 5:39:00 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/17/2013 3:26:36 PM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
Luke 16:19-31 put it best. Many atheists, in their pride, set the burden of proof on God to prove his existence so high that it is logically impossible to achieve.

That's what I think is the problem with atheism. They claim to be searching for the truth, but to the contrary, put faith in their atheism while making fun of religious people for their faith in God.

I think you're correct. At least for myself. Not for all atheists. Atheists are not so easily grouped together as many theists depict them. Though, to be fair, I set the same standard for everything else. That's why I'm agnostic to everything, at least to the degree that my ego can permit me.

Philosophically, it's true that I am not seeking truth. Because I see truth as, not only unattainable, but nothing more than an abstract concept.

Casually, I greatly enjoy seeking the true answers to things. And my lack of real conviction makes that, I think, an easier job to accomplish. My only obstacle remaining being emotion, which I typically try to leave out of the equation to the furthest extent I can unless I explicitly acknowledge that it has value to a particular answer.
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DakotaKrafick
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1/17/2013 6:12:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/17/2013 3:26:36 PM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
Luke 16:19-31 put it best. Many atheists, in their pride, set the burden of proof on God to prove his existence so high that it is logically impossible to achieve.

1) How is it logically impossible for God to make his presence unequivocally known?

2) I think you'll find most (if not all) atheists put the burden of proof on those who claim a deity exists, not the deity they claim exists itself.

That's what I think is the problem with atheism. They claim to be searching for the truth, but to the contrary, put faith in their atheism while making fun of religious people for their faith in God.

Do tell how one puts "faith in their atheism".
Cobo
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1/17/2013 6:37:58 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/17/2013 3:26:36 PM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
Luke 16:19-31 put it best. Many atheists, in their pride, set the burden of proof on God to prove his existence so high that it is logically impossible to achieve.

That's what I think is the problem with atheism. They claim to be searching for the truth, but to the contrary, put faith in their atheism while making fun of religious people for their faith in God.

While you have a good point, don't group atheist together if you don't wished to be grouped with different theistic groups.

And I also do not think that is what Luke 16:19-31 can be interpreted into...
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Maikuru
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1/17/2013 6:52:44 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/17/2013 3:26:36 PM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
Luke 16:19-31 put it best. Many atheists, in their pride, set the burden of proof on God to prove his existence so high that it is logically impossible to achieve.

Impossible for who? God?
"You assume I wouldn't want to burn this whole place to the ground."
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Paradox_7
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1/17/2013 7:07:36 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/17/2013 6:52:44 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 1/17/2013 3:26:36 PM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
Luke 16:19-31 put it best. Many atheists, in their pride, set the burden of proof on God to prove his existence so high that it is logically impossible to achieve.

Impossible for who? God?

I'm not sure what he means by this, but I believe this passage simply reveals mans inability, as a whole, to believe without direct intervention from God.

If God doesn't replace a persons heart of stone with a heart of flesh, they will never accept him, no matter how obvious it might be. For example, how could anything we enjoy in this life be appealing to a corpse?

This is what all men are (Eph. 2:1-5, Col. 2:13), before being given life in Christ by his choosing (Eph. 1:4, Rom. 9:16, John 15:16).
: At 10/23/2012 8:06:03 PM, tvellalott wrote:
: Don't be. The Catholic Church is ran by Darth Sidius for fvck sake. As far as I'm concerned, you're a bona fide member of the Sith.
medic0506
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1/17/2013 7:56:49 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/17/2013 4:34:46 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
Most atheists don't. A lot of Atheists who are vocal about it, do; which gives the apperance that most, or at least many do. Both side make arguably unfair generalizations in this way. It's not particularly helpful.

I can agree with that. I have to plead guilty on occasion as well.
GarretKadeDupre
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1/17/2013 8:50:17 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/17/2013 6:12:10 PM, DakotaKrafick wrote:
Do tell how one puts "faith in their atheism".

I think atheism requires faith to ignore the evidence of God.
Proof that people witnessed living dinosaurs:
http://www.debate.org...
Maikuru
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1/17/2013 8:53:46 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/17/2013 7:07:36 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 1/17/2013 6:52:44 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 1/17/2013 3:26:36 PM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
Luke 16:19-31 put it best. Many atheists, in their pride, set the burden of proof on God to prove his existence so high that it is logically impossible to achieve.

Impossible for who? God?

I'm not sure what he means by this, but I believe this passage simply reveals mans inability, as a whole, to believe without direct intervention from God.

If God doesn't replace a persons heart of stone with a heart of flesh, they will never accept him, no matter how obvious it might be. For example, how could anything we enjoy in this life be appealing to a corpse?

This is what all men are (Eph. 2:1-5, Col. 2:13), before being given life in Christ by his choosing (Eph. 1:4, Rom. 9:16, John 15:16).

I can get behind that.
"You assume I wouldn't want to burn this whole place to the ground."
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Paradox_7
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1/17/2013 8:55:37 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/17/2013 8:53:46 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 1/17/2013 7:07:36 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 1/17/2013 6:52:44 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 1/17/2013 3:26:36 PM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
Luke 16:19-31 put it best. Many atheists, in their pride, set the burden of proof on God to prove his existence so high that it is logically impossible to achieve.

Impossible for who? God?

I'm not sure what he means by this, but I believe this passage simply reveals mans inability, as a whole, to believe without direct intervention from God.

If God doesn't replace a persons heart of stone with a heart of flesh, they will never accept him, no matter how obvious it might be. For example, how could anything we enjoy in this life be appealing to a corpse?

This is what all men are (Eph. 2:1-5, Col. 2:13), before being given life in Christ by his choosing (Eph. 1:4, Rom. 9:16, John 15:16).

I can get behind that.

Neither could I, nor anyone else.. Sort of the point I was making, lol.
: At 10/23/2012 8:06:03 PM, tvellalott wrote:
: Don't be. The Catholic Church is ran by Darth Sidius for fvck sake. As far as I'm concerned, you're a bona fide member of the Sith.
Maikuru
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1/17/2013 8:58:05 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/17/2013 8:55:37 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 1/17/2013 8:53:46 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 1/17/2013 7:07:36 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 1/17/2013 6:52:44 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 1/17/2013 3:26:36 PM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
Luke 16:19-31 put it best. Many atheists, in their pride, set the burden of proof on God to prove his existence so high that it is logically impossible to achieve.

Impossible for who? God?

I'm not sure what he means by this, but I believe this passage simply reveals mans inability, as a whole, to believe without direct intervention from God.

If God doesn't replace a persons heart of stone with a heart of flesh, they will never accept him, no matter how obvious it might be. For example, how could anything we enjoy in this life be appealing to a corpse?

This is what all men are (Eph. 2:1-5, Col. 2:13), before being given life in Christ by his choosing (Eph. 1:4, Rom. 9:16, John 15:16).

I can get behind that.

Neither could I, nor anyone else.. Sort of the point I was making, lol.

I'm sorry? I said I could get behind that.
"You assume I wouldn't want to burn this whole place to the ground."
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Paradox_7
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1/18/2013 12:29:30 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/17/2013 8:58:05 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 1/17/2013 8:55:37 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 1/17/2013 8:53:46 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 1/17/2013 7:07:36 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 1/17/2013 6:52:44 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 1/17/2013 3:26:36 PM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
Luke 16:19-31 put it best. Many atheists, in their pride, set the burden of proof on God to prove his existence so high that it is logically impossible to achieve.

Impossible for who? God?

I'm not sure what he means by this, but I believe this passage simply reveals mans inability, as a whole, to believe without direct intervention from God.

If God doesn't replace a persons heart of stone with a heart of flesh, they will never accept him, no matter how obvious it might be. For example, how could anything we enjoy in this life be appealing to a corpse?

This is what all men are (Eph. 2:1-5, Col. 2:13), before being given life in Christ by his choosing (Eph. 1:4, Rom. 9:16, John 15:16).

I can get behind that.

Neither could I, nor anyone else.. Sort of the point I was making, lol.

I'm sorry? I said I could get behind that.

Lol, my bad.. I read it a bit fast when I was about to shut my computer down... thought you said you couldn't..

But, now I'm a bit curious. You agree with what I just said?
: At 10/23/2012 8:06:03 PM, tvellalott wrote:
: Don't be. The Catholic Church is ran by Darth Sidius for fvck sake. As far as I'm concerned, you're a bona fide member of the Sith.
Maikuru
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1/18/2013 3:11:18 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/18/2013 12:29:30 AM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 1/17/2013 8:58:05 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 1/17/2013 8:55:37 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 1/17/2013 8:53:46 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 1/17/2013 7:07:36 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 1/17/2013 6:52:44 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 1/17/2013 3:26:36 PM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
Luke 16:19-31 put it best. Many atheists, in their pride, set the burden of proof on God to prove his existence so high that it is logically impossible to achieve.

Impossible for who? God?

I'm not sure what he means by this, but I believe this passage simply reveals mans inability, as a whole, to believe without direct intervention from God.

If God doesn't replace a persons heart of stone with a heart of flesh, they will never accept him, no matter how obvious it might be. For example, how could anything we enjoy in this life be appealing to a corpse?

This is what all men are (Eph. 2:1-5, Col. 2:13), before being given life in Christ by his choosing (Eph. 1:4, Rom. 9:16, John 15:16).

I can get behind that.

Neither could I, nor anyone else.. Sort of the point I was making, lol.

I'm sorry? I said I could get behind that.

Lol, my bad.. I read it a bit fast when I was about to shut my computer down... thought you said you couldn't..

But, now I'm a bit curious. You agree with what I just said?

That man needs God's intervention to believe? I don't know enough to agree with it, I can just understand that perspective. If God does exist, I'd want that to be the case. It takes a lot of the onus off of me, the ignorant mortal.
"You assume I wouldn't want to burn this whole place to the ground."
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Sidewalker
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1/18/2013 5:56:30 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/17/2013 4:10:23 PM, Enji wrote:
At 1/17/2013 4:07:47 PM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
I said "Many atheists" in the first sentence. I thought it was clear I was just generalizing.

I'm not talking about every atheist.

I think the reason why they objected is that you then concluded based on a generalization of some atheists that this is a problem of atheism.

I think you are generalizing about why they objected based on a generalization of some atheists that this is an objection of atheism, and then you generalized the reason he concluded that based on a generalization of some theists that this is a problem of theism.

Generally speaking.
"It is one of the commonest of mistakes to consider that the limit of our power of perception is also the limit of all there is to perceive." " C. W. Leadbeater
Sidewalker
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1/18/2013 6:02:45 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/17/2013 4:45:33 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 1/17/2013 3:26:36 PM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
Many atheists, in their pride, set the burden of proof on God to prove his existence so high that it is logically impossible to achieve.

That may be true, but in most cases, I don't think it has anything to do with pride. I read this book by Ronald Nash called Faith & Reason in which he explained how our entire noetic structure (the sum total of all of your beliefs) affects how we filter information and how it affects what we will believe and how much evidence it takes to get us to believe it. All of our beliefs are interconnected, so you can rarely ever change one belief without having to change several other beliefs. The reason two people can look at the same evidence, and one will be convinced but not the other, is because of their background beliefs.

For example, Catholics have an easier time believing stories about Marian apparitions than Protestants because Marian apparitions cohere more nicely with Catholic theology than with Protestant theology.

Likewise, stories about miracles are easier for supernaturalists to believe than naturalists because miracles are more consistent with a supernatural worldview than with a naturalistic worldview.

If you're faced with evidence for something you don't currently believe, that has to be weighed against everything else you believe that might be inconsistent with it. The fewer beliefs you have to adjust, and the less convictions with which you hold those beliefs, the more persuasive the evidence will seem to you.

I think people sometimes move the goal post, not because they're being dishonest or prideful, but because they themselves don't know what it would take to convince them. They make thing some bit of evidence would convince them, but when faced with the evidence, the still find themselves doubting.

Well said, and I think it speaks to a central tenet of faith, which is that a change in worldview, changes the world viewed.
"It is one of the commonest of mistakes to consider that the limit of our power of perception is also the limit of all there is to perceive." " C. W. Leadbeater
tkubok
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1/18/2013 7:38:29 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/17/2013 7:07:36 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 1/17/2013 6:52:44 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 1/17/2013 3:26:36 PM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
Luke 16:19-31 put it best. Many atheists, in their pride, set the burden of proof on God to prove his existence so high that it is logically impossible to achieve.

Impossible for who? God?

I'm not sure what he means by this, but I believe this passage simply reveals mans inability, as a whole, to believe without direct intervention from God.

If God doesn't replace a persons heart of stone with a heart of flesh, they will never accept him, no matter how obvious it might be. For example, how could anything we enjoy in this life be appealing to a corpse?

This is what all men are (Eph. 2:1-5, Col. 2:13), before being given life in Christ by his choosing (Eph. 1:4, Rom. 9:16, John 15:16).

Didnt God harden the pharaohs heart? Why cant God do the opposite?

I mean, does God not know of NO method to convince someone who has hardened their heart, that he exists?
tkubok
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1/18/2013 8:01:06 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/17/2013 3:26:36 PM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
Luke 16:19-31 put it best. Many atheists, in their pride, set the burden of proof on God to prove his existence so high that it is logically impossible to achieve.

That's what I think is the problem with atheism. They claim to be searching for the truth, but to the contrary, put faith in their atheism while making fun of religious people for their faith in God.

So the burden of proof is so high that not even God can acheive it? So God isnt all powerful, then?
GarretKadeDupre
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1/18/2013 2:44:30 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/18/2013 8:01:06 AM, tkubok wrote:
At 1/17/2013 3:26:36 PM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
Luke 16:19-31 put it best. Many atheists, in their pride, set the burden of proof on God to prove his existence so high that it is logically impossible to achieve.

That's what I think is the problem with atheism. They claim to be searching for the truth, but to the contrary, put faith in their atheism while making fun of religious people for their faith in God.

So the burden of proof is so high that not even God can acheive it? So God isnt all powerful, then?

We are made in the image and likeness of God. Personally, I take this to mean that we have some of God's attributes, one of these being the ability to think logically. The logically impossible is impossible to even conceptualize, much less materialize. Asking God to do the logically impossible doesn't mean God isn't all-powerful, it just means that the person making the request is stupid.

Here is an example:

Mortal: "Hey God, can you make the sound of light turn into blue and create a rock that exists yet doesn't exist at the same time?

God: "..."
Proof that people witnessed living dinosaurs:
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Paradox_7
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1/18/2013 4:18:55 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/18/2013 3:11:18 AM, Maikuru wrote:
That man needs God's intervention to believe? I don't know enough to agree with it, I can just understand that perspective. If God does exist, I'd want that to be the case. It takes a lot of the onus off of me, the ignorant mortal.

Well if you ever interested enough to take a close look at scripture, I assure you it's overwhelmingly clear that that is that case.

While I disagree with your appeal to it, the understanding I've recieved is very comforting. The responsibility for yous in is however, totally yours; the only part of our salvation that we contribute, is the sin that makes it necessary.
: At 10/23/2012 8:06:03 PM, tvellalott wrote:
: Don't be. The Catholic Church is ran by Darth Sidius for fvck sake. As far as I'm concerned, you're a bona fide member of the Sith.