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Gotta love Catholic hypocrisy.

emj32
Posts: 111
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1/25/2013 9:28:28 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
http://www.thedenverchannel.com...

Basically, a Catholic hospital argues that fetuses aren't people in a wrongful death lawsuit. This, of course, goes against all the Catholics constantly screaming about how "fetuses are people, abortion is immoral!". Remember people, follow the money trail. Religion is such a scam. Fetuses are people, unless of course you can avoid a lawsuit. Child rape is wrong, unless of course you're a high ranking priest.
AlwaysMoreThanYou
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1/25/2013 11:05:33 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
The Bishops are looking into it.
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
GarretKadeDupre
Posts: 2,023
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1/26/2013 12:52:38 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I don't know anything about this particular case, but for the sake of argument let's say that it's happened as you describe.

So what? Hypocrisy is demonstrated by people of all walks of life, religious and non-religious. Why are you singling out Catholicism? It doesn't even prove anything other than the obvious fact that hypocrisy exists.
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Nur-Ab-Sal
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1/26/2013 6:32:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Catholic hypocrisy with respect to the Catholic leadership of that hospital. The Church doesn't agree here.
Genesis I. And God created man to his own image: to the image of God he created him: male and female he created them.
Nur-Ab-Sal
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1/26/2013 6:43:46 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/26/2013 6:42:25 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 1/25/2013 11:05:33 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
The Bishops are looking into it.

At an angle, I'm sure.

Can you blame them? They do move diagonally.
Genesis I. And God created man to his own image: to the image of God he created him: male and female he created them.
GarretKadeDupre
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1/26/2013 8:15:52 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/26/2013 6:43:46 PM, Nur-Ab-Sal wrote:
At 1/26/2013 6:42:25 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 1/25/2013 11:05:33 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
The Bishops are looking into it.

At an angle, I'm sure.

Can you blame them? They do move diagonally.

Sig'd.
Proof that people witnessed living dinosaurs:
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medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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1/26/2013 8:17:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/25/2013 9:28:28 PM, emj32 wrote:
http://www.thedenverchannel.com...

Basically, a Catholic hospital argues that fetuses aren't people in a wrongful death lawsuit. This, of course, goes against all the Catholics constantly screaming about how "fetuses are people, abortion is immoral!". Remember people, follow the money trail. Religion is such a scam. Fetuses are people, unless of course you can avoid a lawsuit. Child rape is wrong, unless of course you're a high ranking priest.

Hey, if you support laws allowing baby-killing as a means of birth control, then the hypocrisy is glaringly obvious on your side of the case, as well.

It can't be a baby when you want it to be, and not a baby when you don't want it to be. Either it is, or it isn't a human life deserving of protection.

Now I'm perfectly willing to join you in siding against the hospital, saying that it is a baby, deserving of legal protection. Are you willing to be consistent and say that our nation's laws should reflect that stance?? If not, then you're as much a hypocrite as the hospital in this case.
GarretKadeDupre
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1/26/2013 8:59:50 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/26/2013 8:17:10 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 1/25/2013 9:28:28 PM, emj32 wrote:
http://www.thedenverchannel.com...

Basically, a Catholic hospital argues that fetuses aren't people in a wrongful death lawsuit. This, of course, goes against all the Catholics constantly screaming about how "fetuses are people, abortion is immoral!". Remember people, follow the money trail. Religion is such a scam. Fetuses are people, unless of course you can avoid a lawsuit. Child rape is wrong, unless of course you're a high ranking priest.

Hey, if you support laws allowing baby-killing as a means of birth control, then the hypocrisy is glaringly obvious on your side of the case, as well.

It can't be a baby when you want it to be, and not a baby when you don't want it to be. Either it is, or it isn't a human life deserving of protection.

Now I'm perfectly willing to join you in siding against the hospital, saying that it is a baby, deserving of legal protection. Are you willing to be consistent and say that our nation's laws should reflect that stance?? If not, then you're as much a hypocrite as the hospital in this case.

Burn.
Proof that people witnessed living dinosaurs:
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emj32
Posts: 111
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1/27/2013 1:26:40 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/26/2013 8:17:10 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 1/25/2013 9:28:28 PM, emj32 wrote:
http://www.thedenverchannel.com...

Basically, a Catholic hospital argues that fetuses aren't people in a wrongful death lawsuit. This, of course, goes against all the Catholics constantly screaming about how "fetuses are people, abortion is immoral!". Remember people, follow the money trail. Religion is such a scam. Fetuses are people, unless of course you can avoid a lawsuit. Child rape is wrong, unless of course you're a high ranking priest.

Hey, if you support laws allowing baby-killing as a means of birth control, then the hypocrisy is glaringly obvious on your side of the case, as well.

I never said I support/deny abortion, but if you want to keep deciding my political opinions for me, who am I to tell you what to do over the internet? Plus, if you give me one non-biased, non-religious source stating that not only are fetuses actual human beings, but the act of aborting one is murder under our current definition, I might 'side' with you.

It can't be a baby when you want it to be, and not a baby when you don't want it to be.

Of course it can, if your part of the catholic faith! If you can avoid a lawsuit and keep your wallet full, then all of a sudden the catholic faith can pardon that rule.

Now I'm perfectly willing to join you in siding against the hospital, saying that it is a baby, deserving of legal protection. Are you willing to be consistent and say that our nation's laws should reflect that stance?? If not, then you're as much a hypocrite as the hospital in this case.

I never stated I'm for/against abortion, or the hospital's decision. But of course, I'm just as guilty of hypocrisy as the Catholic hospital saying fetuses aren't actually people, going against a MAJOR rule of their religion, just to save some dollars. My apologies. Go back to worshiping your sky daddy and abandoning rules of your religion to save some $$$.
emj32
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1/27/2013 1:30:21 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/26/2013 8:59:50 PM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
At 1/26/2013 8:17:10 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 1/25/2013 9:28:28 PM, emj32 wrote:
http://www.thedenverchannel.com...

Basically, a Catholic hospital argues that fetuses aren't people in a wrongful death lawsuit. This, of course, goes against all the Catholics constantly screaming about how "fetuses are people, abortion is immoral!". Remember people, follow the money trail. Religion is such a scam. Fetuses are people, unless of course you can avoid a lawsuit. Child rape is wrong, unless of course you're a high ranking priest.

Hey, if you support laws allowing baby-killing as a means of birth control, then the hypocrisy is glaringly obvious on your side of the case, as well.

It can't be a baby when you want it to be, and not a baby when you don't want it to be. Either it is, or it isn't a human life deserving of protection.

Now I'm perfectly willing to join you in siding against the hospital, saying that it is a baby, deserving of legal protection. Are you willing to be consistent and say that our nation's laws should reflect that stance?? If not, then you're as much a hypocrite as the hospital in this case.

Burn.

So much substance, in such short of a post.
AlwaysMoreThanYou
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1/27/2013 1:46:38 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/25/2013 11:05:33 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
The Bishops are looking into it.

Also, I don't think the official Catholic position is that fetuses are definitely and without a doubt people.
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
malcolmxy
Posts: 2,855
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1/27/2013 1:47:50 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/25/2013 9:28:28 PM, emj32 wrote:
http://www.thedenverchannel.com...

Basically, a Catholic hospital argues that fetuses aren't people in a wrongful death lawsuit. This, of course, goes against all the Catholics constantly screaming about how "fetuses are people, abortion is immoral!". Remember people, follow the money trail. Religion is such a scam. Fetuses are people, unless of course you can avoid a lawsuit. Child rape is wrong, unless of course you're a high ranking priest.

The church is an abomination per their own holy book, and yet they soldier on.

Don't confuse a false power artifice with a parishioner who was indoctrinated into the religion since their youth and gets satisfaction through a sense and community work.
War is over, if you want it.

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malcolmxy
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1/27/2013 1:49:47 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/25/2013 10:20:54 PM, Franz_Reynard wrote:
They pray to saints, dude.

As opposed to a belief that grace alone will drop you in nirvana as opposed to matching grace with good deeds?

idiots...DUDE!!!
War is over, if you want it.

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medic0506
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1/27/2013 12:50:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/27/2013 1:26:40 AM, emj32 wrote:
At 1/26/2013 8:17:10 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 1/25/2013 9:28:28 PM, emj32 wrote:
http://www.thedenverchannel.com...

Basically, a Catholic hospital argues that fetuses aren't people in a wrongful death lawsuit. This, of course, goes against all the Catholics constantly screaming about how "fetuses are people, abortion is immoral!". Remember people, follow the money trail. Religion is such a scam. Fetuses are people, unless of course you can avoid a lawsuit. Child rape is wrong, unless of course you're a high ranking priest.

Hey, if you support laws allowing baby-killing as a means of birth control, then the hypocrisy is glaringly obvious on your side of the case, as well.

I never said I support/deny abortion, but if you want to keep deciding my political opinions for me, who am I to tell you what to do over the internet?

No you didn't specify, but it is implied by your use of the Catholic stance against abortion, against them. Yes, I did make an assumption, but based on the tone and message of your OP, I believe the assumption is justified.

Plus, if you give me one non-biased, non-religious source stating that not only are fetuses actual human beings,

Why would you need a source for this. Common sense can settle it for you. Cells are dividing, meaning it's a being. It's gestating inside a human, and is the result of human sperm fertilizing a human egg. Put the two together and you have a "human being"

but the act of aborting one is murder under our current definition, I might 'side' with you.

It is the wilfull and purposeful termination of a human life, with malice aforethought, by another human being. If you need a source to tell you that that is murder then I can't help you.

It can't be a baby when you want it to be, and not a baby when you don't want it to be.

Of course it can, if your part of the catholic faith! If you can avoid a lawsuit and keep your wallet full, then all of a sudden the catholic faith can pardon that rule.

I'm not Catholic so I can't speak for them, but I doubt that very many Catholics actually believe that, or support the legal position that the hospital is taking.

Now I'm perfectly willing to join you in siding against the hospital, saying that it is a baby, deserving of legal protection. Are you willing to be consistent and say that our nation's laws should reflect that stance?? If not, then you're as much a hypocrite as the hospital in this case.

I never stated I'm for/against abortion, or the hospital's decision. But of course, I'm just as guilty of hypocrisy as the Catholic hospital saying fetuses aren't actually people, going against a MAJOR rule of their religion, just to save some dollars. My apologies. Go back to worshiping your sky daddy and abandoning rules of your religion to save some $$$.

My sky daddy gives me enough common sense to know that the hospital's position is unreasonable, and should be changed to reflect the actual beliefs that it preaches. Practice what you preach. Just because it CAN get away with that argument doesn't mean that it should. Unfortunately I agree with your assessment of the hospital's position. But I also feel that it's hypocritical to support legalized baby killing, then turn around and insult another entity for using your own laws and definitions to protect themselves legally.
medic0506
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1/27/2013 12:52:18 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/27/2013 1:46:38 AM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 1/25/2013 11:05:33 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
The Bishops are looking into it.

Also, I don't think the official Catholic position is that fetuses are definitely and without a doubt people.

Please tell me you are joking.
imabench
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1/27/2013 1:02:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/26/2013 6:43:46 PM, Nur-Ab-Sal wrote:
At 1/26/2013 6:42:25 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 1/25/2013 11:05:33 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
The Bishops are looking into it.

At an angle, I'm sure.

Can you blame them? They do move diagonally.

Win
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AlwaysMoreThanYou
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1/27/2013 1:11:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/27/2013 12:52:18 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 1/27/2013 1:46:38 AM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 1/25/2013 11:05:33 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
The Bishops are looking into it.

Also, I don't think the official Catholic position is that fetuses are definitely and without a doubt people.

Please tell me you are joking.

Nope.
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
Nur-Ab-Sal
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1/27/2013 1:31:15 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/27/2013 12:52:18 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 1/27/2013 1:46:38 AM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 1/25/2013 11:05:33 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
The Bishops are looking into it.

Also, I don't think the official Catholic position is that fetuses are definitely and without a doubt people.

Please tell me you are joking.

Catholics teach that fetuses are moral persons, but I'm not sure how this relates to legal personhood.

Personally, I feel that the legal definition should follow the metaphysical definition of a person as that which possesses the form of a human and thus a soul, and as such I disagree with this hospital's actions.
Genesis I. And God created man to his own image: to the image of God he created him: male and female he created them.
AlwaysMoreThanYou
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1/27/2013 1:32:42 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/27/2013 1:31:15 PM, Nur-Ab-Sal wrote:
At 1/27/2013 12:52:18 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 1/27/2013 1:46:38 AM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 1/25/2013 11:05:33 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
The Bishops are looking into it.

Also, I don't think the official Catholic position is that fetuses are definitely and without a doubt people.

Please tell me you are joking.

Catholics teach that fetuses are moral persons,

As a legitimate question, do you have any authoritative and morally binding Catholic source that unambiguously declares fetuses to be people?
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
Nur-Ab-Sal
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1/27/2013 1:38:25 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/27/2013 1:32:42 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 1/27/2013 1:31:15 PM, Nur-Ab-Sal wrote:
At 1/27/2013 12:52:18 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 1/27/2013 1:46:38 AM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 1/25/2013 11:05:33 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
The Bishops are looking into it.

Also, I don't think the official Catholic position is that fetuses are definitely and without a doubt people.

Please tell me you are joking.

Catholics teach that fetuses are moral persons,

As a legitimate question, do you have any authoritative and morally binding Catholic source that unambiguously declares fetuses to be people?

"2274 Since it must be treated from conception as a person, the embryo must be defended in its integrity, cared for, and healed, as far as possible, like any other human being."

http://www.vatican.va...
Genesis I. And God created man to his own image: to the image of God he created him: male and female he created them.
AlwaysMoreThanYou
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1/27/2013 1:43:45 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/27/2013 1:38:25 PM, Nur-Ab-Sal wrote:
At 1/27/2013 1:32:42 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 1/27/2013 1:31:15 PM, Nur-Ab-Sal wrote:
At 1/27/2013 12:52:18 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 1/27/2013 1:46:38 AM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 1/25/2013 11:05:33 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
The Bishops are looking into it.

Also, I don't think the official Catholic position is that fetuses are definitely and without a doubt people.

Please tell me you are joking.

Catholics teach that fetuses are moral persons,

As a legitimate question, do you have any authoritative and morally binding Catholic source that unambiguously declares fetuses to be people?

"2274 Since it must be treated from conception as a person, the embryo must be defended in its integrity, cared for, and healed, as far as possible, like any other human being."

http://www.vatican.va...

That seems pretty ambiguous to me, as it says 'must be treated' as a person, rather than 'is' a person.

As far as I know, there's been historically a great deal of controversy about when ensoulment occurs.
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
Nur-Ab-Sal
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1/27/2013 1:48:04 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/27/2013 1:43:45 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 1/27/2013 1:38:25 PM, Nur-Ab-Sal wrote:
At 1/27/2013 1:32:42 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 1/27/2013 1:31:15 PM, Nur-Ab-Sal wrote:
At 1/27/2013 12:52:18 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 1/27/2013 1:46:38 AM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 1/25/2013 11:05:33 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
The Bishops are looking into it.

Also, I don't think the official Catholic position is that fetuses are definitely and without a doubt people.

Please tell me you are joking.

Catholics teach that fetuses are moral persons,

As a legitimate question, do you have any authoritative and morally binding Catholic source that unambiguously declares fetuses to be people?

"2274 Since it must be treated from conception as a person, the embryo must be defended in its integrity, cared for, and healed, as far as possible, like any other human being."

http://www.vatican.va...

That seems pretty ambiguous to me, as it says 'must be treated' as a person, rather than 'is' a person.

As far as I know, there's been historically a great deal of controversy about when ensoulment occurs.

It is ambiguous, I agree.

And I agree there has been controversy about ensoulment. But as a Thomist, I understand the soul of a human to be the form of a human, which is instantiated at the moment of conception.
Genesis I. And God created man to his own image: to the image of God he created him: male and female he created them.
emj32
Posts: 111
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1/27/2013 2:09:37 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/27/2013 1:38:25 PM, Nur-Ab-Sal wrote:
At 1/27/2013 1:32:42 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 1/27/2013 1:31:15 PM, Nur-Ab-Sal wrote:
At 1/27/2013 12:52:18 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 1/27/2013 1:46:38 AM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 1/25/2013 11:05:33 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
The Bishops are looking into it.

Also, I don't think the official Catholic position is that fetuses are definitely and without a doubt people.

Please tell me you are joking.

Catholics teach that fetuses are moral persons,

As a legitimate question, do you have any authoritative and morally binding Catholic source that unambiguously declares fetuses to be people?

"2274 Since it must be treated from conception as a person, the embryo must be defended in its integrity, cared for, and healed, as far as possible, like any other human being."

http://www.vatican.va...

Do you have any authority within the bible that explicitly states abortion is immoral and should be punished the same as the killing of a regular person?
Nur-Ab-Sal
Posts: 1,637
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1/27/2013 2:14:30 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/27/2013 2:09:37 PM, emj32 wrote:
At 1/27/2013 1:38:25 PM, Nur-Ab-Sal wrote:
At 1/27/2013 1:32:42 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 1/27/2013 1:31:15 PM, Nur-Ab-Sal wrote:
At 1/27/2013 12:52:18 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 1/27/2013 1:46:38 AM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 1/25/2013 11:05:33 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
The Bishops are looking into it.

Also, I don't think the official Catholic position is that fetuses are definitely and without a doubt people.

Please tell me you are joking.

Catholics teach that fetuses are moral persons,

As a legitimate question, do you have any authoritative and morally binding Catholic source that unambiguously declares fetuses to be people?

"2274 Since it must be treated from conception as a person, the embryo must be defended in its integrity, cared for, and healed, as far as possible, like any other human being."

http://www.vatican.va...

Do you have any authority within the bible that explicitly states abortion is immoral and should be punished the same as the killing of a regular person?

You do realize Catholics follow more than the Bible, correct? The link I posted was valid for argumentation between AMTY and I, because we hold the Vatican to be spiritual authority. Moreover, I don't need the Bible to know that Jupiter is the fifth planet of the Sun. I can recognize the truth of certain propositions without the Bible, provided they do not contradict it.
Genesis I. And God created man to his own image: to the image of God he created him: male and female he created them.
AlwaysMoreThanYou
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1/27/2013 2:15:51 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/27/2013 1:48:04 PM, Nur-Ab-Sal wrote:
At 1/27/2013 1:43:45 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 1/27/2013 1:38:25 PM, Nur-Ab-Sal wrote:
At 1/27/2013 1:32:42 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 1/27/2013 1:31:15 PM, Nur-Ab-Sal wrote:
At 1/27/2013 12:52:18 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 1/27/2013 1:46:38 AM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 1/25/2013 11:05:33 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
The Bishops are looking into it.

Also, I don't think the official Catholic position is that fetuses are definitely and without a doubt people.

Please tell me you are joking.

Catholics teach that fetuses are moral persons,

As a legitimate question, do you have any authoritative and morally binding Catholic source that unambiguously declares fetuses to be people?

"2274 Since it must be treated from conception as a person, the embryo must be defended in its integrity, cared for, and healed, as far as possible, like any other human being."

http://www.vatican.va...

That seems pretty ambiguous to me, as it says 'must be treated' as a person, rather than 'is' a person.

As far as I know, there's been historically a great deal of controversy about when ensoulment occurs.

It is ambiguous, I agree.

I did ask for a source that declared fetuses to be people, not merely one that said they are to be treated as people.

And I agree there has been controversy about ensoulment. But as a Thomist, I understand the soul of a human to be the form of a human, which is instantiated at the moment of conception.

I do too, but as my understanding goes holding such a view is not requisite.
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
Nur-Ab-Sal
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1/27/2013 2:19:58 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/27/2013 2:15:51 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 1/27/2013 1:48:04 PM, Nur-Ab-Sal wrote:
At 1/27/2013 1:43:45 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 1/27/2013 1:38:25 PM, Nur-Ab-Sal wrote:
At 1/27/2013 1:32:42 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 1/27/2013 1:31:15 PM, Nur-Ab-Sal wrote:
At 1/27/2013 12:52:18 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 1/27/2013 1:46:38 AM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 1/25/2013 11:05:33 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
The Bishops are looking into it.

Also, I don't think the official Catholic position is that fetuses are definitely and without a doubt people.

Please tell me you are joking.

Catholics teach that fetuses are moral persons,

As a legitimate question, do you have any authoritative and morally binding Catholic source that unambiguously declares fetuses to be people?

"2274 Since it must be treated from conception as a person, the embryo must be defended in its integrity, cared for, and healed, as far as possible, like any other human being."

http://www.vatican.va...

That seems pretty ambiguous to me, as it says 'must be treated' as a person, rather than 'is' a person.

As far as I know, there's been historically a great deal of controversy about when ensoulment occurs.

It is ambiguous, I agree.

I did ask for a source that declared fetuses to be people, not merely one that said they are to be treated as people.

Then my source fails. It was meant to demonstrate the Catholic position on the moral personhood of fetuses, which I still think it affirms, but which can still be rationally denied.

And I agree there has been controversy about ensoulment. But as a Thomist, I understand the soul of a human to be the form of a human, which is instantiated at the moment of conception.

I do too, but as my understanding goes holding such a view is not requisite.

Catholic philosophy has historically been very Thomistic, but I agree it's not required. However, I think the Catechism at least resembles Thomist teaching here.
Genesis I. And God created man to his own image: to the image of God he created him: male and female he created them.
emj32
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1/27/2013 2:21:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/27/2013 2:14:30 PM, Nur-Ab-Sal wrote:
At 1/27/2013 2:09:37 PM, emj32 wrote:
At 1/27/2013 1:38:25 PM, Nur-Ab-Sal wrote:
At 1/27/2013 1:32:42 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 1/27/2013 1:31:15 PM, Nur-Ab-Sal wrote:
At 1/27/2013 12:52:18 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 1/27/2013 1:46:38 AM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 1/25/2013 11:05:33 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
The Bishops are looking into it.

Also, I don't think the official Catholic position is that fetuses are definitely and without a doubt people.

Please tell me you are joking.

Catholics teach that fetuses are moral persons,

As a legitimate question, do you have any authoritative and morally binding Catholic source that unambiguously declares fetuses to be people?

"2274 Since it must be treated from conception as a person, the embryo must be defended in its integrity, cared for, and healed, as far as possible, like any other human being."

http://www.vatican.va...

Do you have any authority within the bible that explicitly states abortion is immoral and should be punished the same as the killing of a regular person?

You do realize Catholics follow more than the Bible, correct? The link I posted was valid for argumentation between AMTY and I, because we hold the Vatican to be spiritual authority. Moreover, I don't need the Bible to know that Jupiter is the fifth planet of the Sun. I can recognize the truth of certain propositions without the Bible, provided they do not contradict it.

I'll take that as a no.