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Why Deism is my religion of choice

famer
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1/26/2013 6:43:11 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I'm just going to briefly go over my reasons as to why I view Deism as the most reliable religion, and why it is my choice. Considering I am not a theologically educated person, I might sound somewhat retarded at times... but nevertheless, my reasons are based on logic/reasons/degrees of reasonability and my basic understanding of religion.

There are many aspects of religion that I found rather interesting, and some bits and pieces of it that I don't find "reasonable".

Why I think Christianity is somewhat flawed. I am targeting Christianity because that is the religion that I have the most knowledge about.

To be a Christian, you must simply believe in God, and that Jesus is God (I think. Something like that). And, if you believe in God, you will go to heaven. It is also stated that God is fair in his judgement for every single person who has ever lived on this earth and whatever he chooses to do will be considered to be correct. If the judgement on the entire afterlife on a single person is considered correct, all of us would also assume that this particular judgement would also be considered to be somewhat fair.

For example, if a serial murderer was caught and confirmed for more than 10 murders, it would be considered a correct judgement that he/she has some form of punishment, otherwise it would not be fair.

Going back to the ideas of Christianity... There are many aspects within this religion that I find rather ridiculous. Here are some:

SIN: Sinning. What is sinning? Sin is simply doing something that is wrong. According to the bible, lieing to someone is equally as bad as murdering every single person within your neighbourhood. Now wtf... seriously??

Some people have never heard of Christianity, and therefore must go to hell. Apparently, from the mouths of almost every single Christian that I have come across, "every person will find their way to God". Please be realistic, like seriously. What would happen to babies that die under the age of 2? Most people don"t even remember anything before the age of two or three. Apart from the babies, I"ve heard that you may be able to meet God in your dreams (for those who have never heard of Him). Let"s assume there are about 100 million people who have never heard of God because of the kind of environment that they live in. 100 million people will envision the same person within their dream and claim that they are God. Again, is this reasonable to believe in?

God"s treatment to everyone is pretty damn awful. Not trying to become a total bigheaded communist or anything, but why would God allow people in Africa suffer so much? Why should He tolerate slavery, child soldiers, torture etc?

Lastly, with Christianity, the entire idea of your after live clings onto one thing, and ONE THING ONLY. Do you believe in God? Do you believe He is your father? Do you believe he is your saviour (or is that Jesus?). Following the Christian idea that there IS an afterlife, and there are two paths to choose from (Hell or Heaven of course). If you say no, to any one of those things, you go straight to hell. Your entire afterlife will be within Hell. Eternally, and no avail will you ever experience Heaven.

It also implies that most of what you have done within your mortal self on earth matters. Nothing except whether or not you believe in God is your saviour, your father, etc. NOTHING MATTERS! God has been looked at as being someone who makes reasonable decisions for the world and the people that live on it. Nothing about this is reasonable, from whatever angle I look at it from.

It means that someone who is mad enough to murder their parents for no reason at all go to Heaven just because they believe that He is your saviour. And, it also means that someone who has assisted people in need with their advantage go straight to hell because he/she is an atheist. NOT FAIR AT ALL. DERP >____>

First off, what is Hell like? I"ve heard from a Christian friend of mine that Hell is not what most people think (most people who are not that educated within the area of Theology). It is not a place with evil demons that will constantly torture you in oversized cooking pots. Apparently, (from word of mouth) Hell is the place where you will be looking over all of your life"s regrets (this might be wrong, but considering my friend is Christian...).

Again, seriously?? How can this be a reasonable punishment for an atheist or agnostic person? Assume you live the average life, just 70 years. You never had the chance to become a Christian, and then you end up in Hell and have to look over your life"s downfalls, regrets etc. for Eternity. Compare a 70 years to Eternity? Once again, wtf"

Next thing" God knows everything. That means he know our future, and therefore will know whether or not we will believe in him or not. For one, I do not want to delve into the extremely complex ideas of time-travelling. If God knows everything, including the future, why would he allow you to stay as an atheist? (or agnostic etc.) Why would he permit you to do such a thing that will, with no doubt, send you straight to hell where you will have eternal suffering? Why doesn"t he influence your path? The reason why I mention time-travel is a bit hard to explain. Simply look up the "grandpa effect" and put that kind of idea here.

Why do I choose Deism though? As I"ve said, I"m not that educated in the area of theology, and don"t have as much knowledge as those people who are even bothered to read this. I choose Theism simply from my observations when I live on this Earth of ours, the mortal world. If there is a God out there, He has no interfered with our lives one bit. Everything that we do here is of our free-will (not in context of laws and that type of stuff). If we want to eat, we eat. If we want to kill someone, we do so and no supernatural force that is not part of this mortal world is stopping us.

Last thing, why I believe there is a super-natural being over us. I"m not like certain or anything, but just from the way we live on earth. Everything we"ve been given, regardless of the time for evolution and that, it is the only thing where I think it is reasonable to believe that a super-natural being does exist and did all of this for us.

Sort of rushed through all of this. If anyone needs clarification of what I was talking about, just tell me which part. But other than that, I think I have been clear enough with what I am trying to say.
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malcolmxy
Posts: 2,855
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1/26/2013 6:57:16 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Yeah...I remember the first time I smoked weed, too.

Thank God there wasn't an internet around then.
War is over, if you want it.

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phantom
Posts: 6,774
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1/26/2013 1:31:12 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
According to the bible, lieing to someone is equally as bad as murdering every single person within your neighbourhood.

Interesting. Where in the Bible does it say this?

Some people have never heard of Christianity, and therefore must go to hell.

No. Ever heard of universalism or annihilationism? I used to be an annihilationist in fact. You're attacking certain conceptions of Christianity, not Christianity itself. Some people also just believe that only those who've had the chance to be Christian but don't, go to hell. So those who never had the chance would not suffer that punishment.

What would happen to babies that die under the age of 2?

According to most theists, they would go to heaven since they are innocent in their youth.

why would God allow people in Africa suffer so much? Why should He tolerate slavery, child soldiers, torture etc?

Free-will? The greater good? I don't know. All objections to the problem of evil stand to some question but the problem of evil itself is not too convincing either. We can't prove gratuitous evil because it's impossible to know the nature of God except for a few details.

Lastly, with Christianity, the entire idea of your after live clings onto one thing, and ONE THING ONLY. Do you believe in God?

Again, you're only objecting to certain versions of Christianity.

Nothing about this is reasonable, from whatever angle I look at it from.

The unreasonable thing is you attacking certain systems of Christian belief as if you're refuting it as a whole.

Hell is the place where you will be looking over all of your life"s regrets (this might be wrong, but considering my friend is Christian...).

I've never heard anything that would imply this.

Again, seriously?? How can this be a reasonable punishment for an atheist or agnostic person?

Idk. If my life isn't boring, it might actually be entertaining. I try not to have many regrets after all.

If God knows everything, including the future, why would he allow you to stay as an atheist? (or agnostic etc.)

God forcing you to be Christian eliminates your free-will to be Christian. Seems like it would contradict the whole purpose of "us".

Why do I choose Deism though?

Because you think the Christianity you've been taught your whole life is the only version of Christianity.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
LatentDebater
Posts: 136
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1/26/2013 4:20:29 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Deism isn't a religion. It is belief in god without religion.
I don't suffer from insanity; I enjoy every minute of it.

People who think they know everything are extremely irritating to those of us who do.

"If you believe in a god, just tell me why you don't believe in all the other gods. The reasons you give will be why I don't believe in yours." - Ricky THEGENIUS Gervais
Dan4reason
Posts: 1,168
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1/26/2013 5:54:45 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I am an agnostic atheist and while I am going to review your critique of religion, if you really want to discuss what we fundamentally disagree on, whether there is a God, then you can can ignore the part where I go over your critique of religion.

At 1/26/2013 6:43:11 AM, famer wrote:
SIN: Sinning. What is sinning? Sin is simply doing something that is wrong. According to the bible, lieing to someone is equally as bad as murdering every single person within your neighbourhood. Now wtf... seriously??

Where in the bible does it say lying is equally as wrong as murder?

God"s treatment to everyone is pretty damn awful. Not trying to become a total bigheaded communist or anything, but why would God allow people in Africa suffer so much? Why should He tolerate slavery, child soldiers, torture etc?

Maybe he is giving the responsibility to solve our own problems to us. If he fixed all humanities problems for us, then we would not have to become stronger as a society and fix them ourselves.

It also implies that most of what you have done within your mortal self on earth matters. Nothing except whether or not you believe in God is your saviour, your father, etc. NOTHING MATTERS! God has been looked at as being someone who makes reasonable decisions for the world and the people that live on it. Nothing about this is reasonable, from whatever angle I look at it from.

Why do you think that Christianity say that nothing you do matters except believing in it?

It means that someone who is mad enough to murder their parents for no reason at all go to Heaven just because they believe that He is your saviour. And, it also means that someone who has assisted people in need with their advantage go straight to hell because he/she is an atheist. NOT FAIR AT ALL. DERP >____>

I don't think someone who willfully kills his own parents really has true faith in Jesus and his teachings. Therefore he will not go to heaven.

Next thing" God knows everything. That means he know our future, and therefore will know whether or not we will believe in him or not. For one, I do not want to delve into the extremely complex ideas of time-travelling. If God knows everything, including the future, why would he allow you to stay as an atheist? (or agnostic etc.) Why would he permit you to do such a thing that will, with no doubt, send you straight to hell where you will have eternal suffering? Why doesn"t he influence your path? The reason why I mention time-travel is a bit hard to explain. Simply look up the "grandpa effect" and put that kind of idea here.

I have no problem with your critique of hell. However, we do have free will, and how can God reward people for believing if it was really God who made them believe?

Last thing, why I believe there is a super-natural being over us. I"m not like certain or anything, but just from the way we live on earth. Everything we"ve been given, regardless of the time for evolution and that, it is the only thing where I think it is reasonable to believe that a super-natural being does exist and did all of this for us.

I really don't understand what you are saying here. Can you please clarify?
stubs
Posts: 1,887
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1/26/2013 6:56:12 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/26/2013 6:43:11 AM, famer wrote:
To be a Christian, you must simply believe in God, and that Jesus is God (I think. Something like that).

Depends on your definition of "believe" but nonetheless I agree.

And, if you believe in God, you will go to heaven. It is also stated that God is fair in his judgement for every single person who has ever lived on this earth and whatever he chooses to do will be considered to be correct. If the judgement on the entire afterlife on a single person is considered correct, all of us would also assume that this particular judgement would also be considered to be somewhat fair.

For example, if a serial murderer was caught and confirmed for more than 10 murders, it would be considered a correct judgement that he/she has some form of punishment, otherwise it would not be fair.

Going back to the ideas of Christianity... There are many aspects within this religion that I find rather ridiculous. Here are some:

SIN: Sinning. What is sinning? Sin is simply doing something that is wrong. According to the bible, lieing to someone is equally as bad as murdering every single person within your neighbourhood. Now wtf... seriously??


Really? I don't think that is necessarily true. Sure they are both sins, but I don't think killing someone is equally as bad as stealing a pencil.

Some people have never heard of Christianity, and therefore must go to hell.

I would say that's a big philosophy question, and not every Christian would agree with your statement.

Apparently, from the mouths of almost every single Christian that I have come across, "every person will find their way to God". Please be realistic, like seriously. What would happen to babies that die under the age of 2?

Jewish tradition has the age at 13 I believe (Not really sure on that number so someone can check me on that). But just like above, not every Christian would agree with that statement.

Most people don"t even remember anything before the age of two or three. Apart from the babies, I"ve heard that you may be able to meet God in your dreams (for those who have never heard of Him). Let"s assume there are about 100 million people who have never heard of God because of the kind of environment that they live in. 100 million people will envision the same person within their dream and claim that they are God. Again, is this reasonable to believe in?


I don't think so, but it also has no bearing on whether you should or should not be a Christian.

God"s treatment to everyone is pretty damn awful. Not trying to become a total bigheaded communist or anything, but why would God allow people in Africa suffer so much? Why should He tolerate slavery, child soldiers, torture etc?


This is basically just the problem of evil. "Why, then, did God give them free will? Because free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having. A world of automata -of creatures that worked like machines- would hardly be worth creating. The happiness which God designs for His higher creatures is the happiness of being freely, voluntarily united to Him and to each other in an ecstasy of love and delight compared with which the most rapturous love between a man and a woman on this earth is mere milk and water. And for that they've got to be free." - C.S Lewis

Lastly, with Christianity, the entire idea of your after live clings onto one thing, and ONE THING ONLY. Do you believe in God? Do you believe He is your father? Do you believe he is your saviour (or is that Jesus?). Following the Christian idea that there IS an afterlife, and there are two paths to choose from (Hell or Heaven of course). If you say no, to any one of those things, you go straight to hell. Your entire afterlife will be within Hell. Eternally, and no avail will you ever experience Heaven.


Okay.

It also implies that most of what you have done within your mortal self on earth matters. Nothing except whether or not you believe in God is your saviour, your father, etc. NOTHING MATTERS! God has been looked at as being someone who makes reasonable decisions for the world and the people that live on it. Nothing about this is reasonable, from whatever angle I look at it from.

Bolded part is wrong according to the bible actually.

It means that someone who is mad enough to murder their parents for no reason at all go to Heaven just because they believe that He is your saviour. And, it also means that someone who has assisted people in need with their advantage go straight to hell because he/she is an atheist. NOT FAIR AT ALL. DERP >____>

First off, what is Hell like? I"ve heard from a Christian friend of mine that Hell is not what most people think (most people who are not that educated within the area of Theology). It is not a place with evil demons that will constantly torture you in oversized cooking pots. Apparently, (from word of mouth) Hell is the place where you will be looking over all of your life"s regrets (this might be wrong, but considering my friend is Christian...).

I believe Hell is best understood as separation from God.

Again, seriously?? How can this be a reasonable punishment for an atheist or agnostic person? Assume you live the average life, just 70 years. You never had the chance to become a Christian, and then you end up in Hell and have to look over your life"s downfalls, regrets etc. for Eternity. Compare a 70 years to Eternity? Once again, wtf"

I disagree a good amount with what your friend said hell is so I don't think this really applies.

Next thing" God knows everything. That means he know our future, and therefore will know whether or not we will believe in him or not. For one, I do not want to delve into the extremely complex ideas of time-travelling. If God knows everything, including the future, why would he allow you to stay as an atheist? (or agnostic etc.) Why would he permit you to do such a thing that will, with no doubt, send you straight to hell where you will have eternal suffering? Why doesn"t he influence your path? The reason why I mention time-travel is a bit hard to explain. Simply look up the "grandpa effect" and put that kind of idea here.

Gods foreknowledge is chronologically prior to our actions, but our actions are explanatory prior to his foreknowledge.

Why do I choose Deism though? As I"ve said, I"m not that educated in the area of theology, and don"t have as much knowledge as those people who are even bothered to read this. I choose Theism simply from my observations when I live on this Earth of ours, the mortal world. If there is a God out there, He has no interfered with our lives one bit.

That's assuming the resurrection is false which I would argue.

Everything that we do here is of our free-will (not in context of laws and that type of stuff). If we want to eat, we eat. If we want to kill someone, we do so and no supernatural force that is not part of this mortal world is stopping us.

Last thing, why I believe there is a super-natural being over us. I"m not like certain or anything, but just from the way we live on earth. Everything we"ve been given, regardless of the time for evolution and that, it is the only thing where I think it is reasonable to believe that a super-natural being does exist and did all of this for us.

Sort of rushed through all of this. If anyone needs clarification of what I was talking about, just tell me which part. But other than that, I think I have been clear enough with what I am trying to say.

In my opinion I think your reasons for not being a Christian are somewhat trivial and do not even have any relevance on why I myself or other people are Christians.