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Does it matter if God exists?

Noumena
Posts: 6,047
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2/5/2013 11:31:38 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I saw this question today and it got me thinking. The obvious answer would probs be "Of course, if It does than non-believers are going to hell. So we should do all we can do get to the bottom of this." While ignoring the fact that different theists offer different interpretations of whether non-belief entails hell, it doesn't seem to make sense when applied across the board. Let's say I conjure up my own religion wherein non-believers also go to hell. No one would care to look into the validity of my claim since they already have a presumption against it (I haven't offered evidence, there's no popular support giving it quasi-credibility, etc.) So is it more about the consequences entailed by a belief being right/wrong or caring simply based upon the likelihood which one *already* affords to the claim?
: At 5/13/2014 7:05:20 PM, Crescendo wrote:
: The difference is that the gay movement is currently pushing their will on Churches, as shown in the link to gay marriage in Denmark. Meanwhile, the Inquisition ended several centuries ago.
Kinesis
Posts: 3,667
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2/5/2013 12:00:58 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Does truth not have value? If gods exist, that would be really fvcking interesting. That's all I need, really. I'm a curious person.
Hvaniratha
Posts: 37
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2/5/2013 4:21:47 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
" 'Oh Ohrmazd! Grant me death! Grant my favored ones death! That they may not live in that perplexing time; grant them exemplary living! That they may not prepare wickedness and the way to hell.' "
-- Zand-i Vohuman Yasht, ch. 3

Hello, Noumena. You say in your post, "Does it matter if God exists?" Of course it does! The wicked go to hell. Rejection of Ohrmazd (God) is a wicked act indeed. I do not believe my monotheist brothers (Christians, Jews, Muslims in the East) are wrong in who they call God, and I believe we have the same God. When anyone is talking about an all-potent, all-seeing, all-loving deity, they are taking about the same God! With the same attributes, what makes Allah, or Yahweh, different from Ohrmazd? It's a superficial difference at best.
DeFool
Posts: 626
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2/5/2013 5:02:17 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/5/2013 11:31:38 AM, Noumena wrote:
I saw this question today and it got me thinking. The obvious answer would probs be "Of course, if It does than non-believers are going to hell. So we should do all we can do get to the bottom of this." While ignoring the fact that different theists offer different interpretations of whether non-belief entails hell...

There is no need for much concern. There are thousands of gods and goddesses who have been energetically worshiped over the centuries, all of them armed to the teeth with volcanoes, tidal waves, thunderbolts and Hells.

Unless we are going to agonize over the possible existence or non-existence of the likes of Pazuzu, Enki, Enlil, Tiamat and Marduk... and spend all of our time in earnest study of these aliens.

I am not eager to do this.
emospongebob527
Posts: 790
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2/5/2013 5:16:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
No, I do wish to succumb to the whim of a bully who punishes you for doing wrong and banishes to an eternal hell for not doing what he wants you to...
"not to toot my own horn (it aint need no tooin if u know what im saying), but my writings on "viciousness: the one true viture (fancy spelling for virtue)" and my poem "A poem I wrote about DDO" put me in a class of my damn own. im just an UNRECONGIZED geniuse" -bananafana
emospongebob527
Posts: 790
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2/5/2013 5:20:06 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/5/2013 5:16:10 PM, emospongebob527 wrote:
No, I do not wish to succumb to the whim of a bully who punishes you for doing wrong and banishes to an eternal hell for not doing what he wants you to...

Fix'd
"not to toot my own horn (it aint need no tooin if u know what im saying), but my writings on "viciousness: the one true viture (fancy spelling for virtue)" and my poem "A poem I wrote about DDO" put me in a class of my damn own. im just an UNRECONGIZED geniuse" -bananafana
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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2/5/2013 5:22:34 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/5/2013 11:31:38 AM, Noumena wrote:
So is it more about the consequences entailed by a belief being right/wrong or caring simply based upon the likelihood which one *already* affords to the claim?
For some it is a matter of accepting the truth; others are more likely to believe because they wish to avoid punishment. The latter most often accompanies the former belief nonetheless.
Nidhogg
Posts: 503
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2/5/2013 5:23:47 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Only if you are a theist.
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Nidhogg
Posts: 503
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2/5/2013 5:24:40 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/5/2013 5:23:47 PM, Nidhogg wrote:
Only if you are a theist.

Atheist life ends badly either way.
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sadolite
Posts: 8,837
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2/5/2013 5:33:00 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
It only matters to people who believe what they do in this life matters beyond the self centered, vanity laden, myopic BS of this life.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
emospongebob527
Posts: 790
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2/5/2013 5:33:15 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/5/2013 5:24:40 PM, Nidhogg wrote:
At 2/5/2013 5:23:47 PM, Nidhogg wrote:
Only if you are a theist.

Atheist life ends badly either way.

How so?
"not to toot my own horn (it aint need no tooin if u know what im saying), but my writings on "viciousness: the one true viture (fancy spelling for virtue)" and my poem "A poem I wrote about DDO" put me in a class of my damn own. im just an UNRECONGIZED geniuse" -bananafana
Nidhogg
Posts: 503
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2/5/2013 5:36:20 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/5/2013 5:33:15 PM, emospongebob527 wrote:
At 2/5/2013 5:24:40 PM, Nidhogg wrote:
At 2/5/2013 5:23:47 PM, Nidhogg wrote:
Only if you are a theist.

Atheist life ends badly either way.

How so?

If God exists, they go to hell. If He doesn't, their lives have no meaning and ultimately ends in simply ceasing to exist forever no matter how you've lived your life.
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emospongebob527
Posts: 790
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2/5/2013 5:39:28 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/5/2013 5:36:20 PM, Nidhogg wrote:
At 2/5/2013 5:33:15 PM, emospongebob527 wrote:
At 2/5/2013 5:24:40 PM, Nidhogg wrote:
At 2/5/2013 5:23:47 PM, Nidhogg wrote:
Only if you are a theist.

Atheist life ends badly either way.

How so?

If God exists, they go to hell.

How can you be certain that if God did exist he would banish atheists to hell? Please do explain...

If He doesn't, their lives have no meaning and ultimately ends in simply ceasing to :exist forever no matter how you've lived your life.

Explain how this is bad...
"not to toot my own horn (it aint need no tooin if u know what im saying), but my writings on "viciousness: the one true viture (fancy spelling for virtue)" and my poem "A poem I wrote about DDO" put me in a class of my damn own. im just an UNRECONGIZED geniuse" -bananafana
Nidhogg
Posts: 503
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2/5/2013 5:46:27 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/5/2013 5:39:28 PM, emospongebob527 wrote:
At 2/5/2013 5:36:20 PM, Nidhogg wrote:
At 2/5/2013 5:33:15 PM, emospongebob527 wrote:
At 2/5/2013 5:24:40 PM, Nidhogg wrote:
At 2/5/2013 5:23:47 PM, Nidhogg wrote:
If He doesn't, their lives have no meaning and ultimately ends in simply ceasing to :exist forever no matter how you've lived your life.

Explain how this is bad...

Imagine if you had made a work of art akin to the Mona Lisa. Now imagine that the second that picture is completed, you can no longer see it or hear anyone talk about it.You cannot receive any money for it either. You know it exists and that everyone loves it, but you will never hear an ounce of praise. This is true for all artists, good or bad. Thus, the act of making art is completely worthless as you can never get any reward from it after it is finished.

That's my metaphor.
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Kinesis
Posts: 3,667
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2/5/2013 5:52:37 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/5/2013 5:36:20 PM, Nidhogg wrote:
If God exists, they go to hell.

You know when atheios, the real god who sends all religious believers to hell for believing in silly fairy tails and all skeptics to heaven, meets you at the pearly gates you'll look really silly.

If He doesn't, their lives have no meaning and ultimately ends in simply ceasing to exist forever no matter how you've lived your life.

Meaning and value are generated by minds. That we only live a short while does indeed suck. Hopefully science will provide a remedy before I die.
KroneckerDelta
Posts: 36
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2/5/2013 6:20:58 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
It only matters if he exists.

If there is no god, then religion is harmless ignorance (well not exactly harmless, ahem inquisition). However, if there is a god (and presumably from one of the 1000s of religions), then it's bad news for at the very least 2/3 of the population and at worst like 99%.
KroneckerDelta
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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2/5/2013 6:29:56 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/5/2013 5:52:37 PM, Kinesis wrote:
At 2/5/2013 5:36:20 PM, Nidhogg wrote:
If God exists, they go to hell.

You know when atheios, the real god who sends all religious believers to hell for believing in silly fairy tails and all skeptics to heaven, meets you at the pearly gates you'll look really silly.


It's those silly fairly tails you got to watch out for. I'll stick with my fairy tales.

If He doesn't, their lives have no meaning and ultimately ends in simply ceasing to exist forever no matter how you've lived your life.

Meaning and value are generated by minds. That we only live a short while does indeed suck. Hopefully science will provide a remedy before I die.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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2/5/2013 6:48:46 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/5/2013 5:24:40 PM, Nidhogg wrote:
At 2/5/2013 5:23:47 PM, Nidhogg wrote:
Only if you are a theist.

Atheist life ends badly either way.

Define: Bad. I'd say we break even.
Kinesis
Posts: 3,667
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2/5/2013 6:51:27 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/5/2013 6:29:56 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 2/5/2013 5:52:37 PM, Kinesis wrote:
At 2/5/2013 5:36:20 PM, Nidhogg wrote:
If God exists, they go to hell.

You know when atheios, the real god who sends all religious believers to hell for believing in silly fairy tails and all skeptics to heaven, meets you at the pearly gates you'll look really silly.


It's those silly fairly tails you got to watch out for. I'll stick with my fairy tales.

Pfft. Enjoy your time boiling in pasta sauce for all eternity, heretic. http://ruzinfruz.files.wordpress.com...
Kinesis
Posts: 3,667
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2/5/2013 6:57:09 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/5/2013 6:48:46 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 2/5/2013 5:24:40 PM, Nidhogg wrote:
At 2/5/2013 5:23:47 PM, Nidhogg wrote:
Only if you are a theist.

Atheist life ends badly either way.

Define: Bad. I'd say we break even.

It can be mathematically proved, actually.

Assign some finite probability to the proposition "god sends christians to heaven and non-christians to hell".

Utility from going to heaven = infinity.
Utility from going to hell = negative infinity.

Expected utility of converting to christianity = infinity because any probability multipled by infinity is infinity.

Now, assign some finite probability to the proposition "god sends christians to hell and non-christians to heaven"

Expected utility of not converting to christianity = infinity because any probability multiplied by infinity is infinity.

The two expectations cancel one another out and we are left with no reason to convert to christianity.
airmax1227
Posts: 13,240
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2/5/2013 7:06:43 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
This is an interesting question and I imagine the answer will depend on whether a theist or an atheist is answering it.

For me, someone who doesn't consider them self to be either a theist or an atheist, it makes no practical difference whatsoever. I believe I am an ethical and moral person, and those beliefs that drive those traits aren't dependent on a deity. It also isn't required for me to believe my life has meaning.

If a theist believes that lack of belief means I'm going to hell, fine. If hell is filled with people like myself, I will gladly go there.
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Nidhogg
Posts: 503
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2/5/2013 8:13:26 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
AirMax, that was the single most inspiring post I've ever heard on this forum. I pray you go to heaven one day.
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johnlubba
Posts: 2,892
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2/6/2013 1:40:59 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Does it matter if an all powerful and intelligent being exists, who is responsible for bringing everything else into existence.......

I let you work it out.
johnlubba
Posts: 2,892
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2/6/2013 1:43:33 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/5/2013 5:02:17 PM, DeFool wrote:
At 2/5/2013 11:31:38 AM, Noumena wrote:
I saw this question today and it got me thinking. The obvious answer would probs be "Of course, if It does than non-believers are going to hell. So we should do all we can do get to the bottom of this." While ignoring the fact that different theists offer different interpretations of whether non-belief entails hell...

There is no need for much concern. There are thousands of gods and goddesses who have been energetically worshiped over the centuries, all of them armed to the teeth with volcanoes, tidal waves, thunderbolts and Hells.

Unless we are going to agonize over the possible existence or non-existence of the likes of Pazuzu, Enki, Enlil, Tiamat and Marduk... and spend all of our time in earnest study of these aliens.

I am not eager to do this.

God is one who becomes many, All the infinite characters exist within God. Self replication, if you wish.
johnlubba
Posts: 2,892
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2/6/2013 1:46:46 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/5/2013 7:06:43 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
This is an interesting question and I imagine the answer will depend on whether a theist or an atheist is answering it.

For me, someone who doesn't consider them self to be either a theist or an atheist, it makes no practical difference whatsoever. I believe I am an ethical and moral person, and those beliefs that drive those traits aren't dependent on a deity. It also isn't required for me to believe my life has meaning.

If a theist believes that lack of belief means I'm going to hell, fine. If hell is filled with people like myself, I will gladly go there.

Men honor what lies within the sphere of their knowledge, but do not realize how dependent they are on what lies beyond it.

Chang Tzu
Franz_Reynard
Posts: 1,227
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2/6/2013 1:48:21 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/5/2013 6:51:27 PM, Kinesis wrote:
At 2/5/2013 6:29:56 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 2/5/2013 5:52:37 PM, Kinesis wrote:
At 2/5/2013 5:36:20 PM, Nidhogg wrote:
If God exists, they go to hell.

You know when atheios, the real god who sends all religious believers to hell for believing in silly fairy tails and all skeptics to heaven, meets you at the pearly gates you'll look really silly.


It's those silly fairly tails you got to watch out for. I'll stick with my fairy tales.

Pfft. Enjoy your time boiling in pasta sauce for all eternity, heretic. http://ruzinfruz.files.wordpress.com...

Nah ah ah!

The righteous go to Heaven whether or not they subscribe to any given religion, so says the Bible.
johnlubba
Posts: 2,892
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2/6/2013 1:48:45 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/5/2013 7:06:43 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
This is an interesting question and I imagine the answer will depend on whether a theist or an atheist is answering it.

For me, someone who doesn't consider them self to be either a theist or an atheist, it makes no practical difference whatsoever. I believe I am an ethical and moral person, and those beliefs that drive those traits aren't dependent on a deity. It also isn't required for me to believe my life has meaning.

If a theist believes that lack of belief means I'm going to hell, fine. If hell is filled with people like myself, I will gladly go there.

I am a theist, Only I do not believe you will go to hell for not knowing God, instead not knowing God is it's own kind of hell.