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Atheist

dogparktom
Posts: 112
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10/31/2009 8:11:20 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
It amazes me how many kids in high school say that they are atheists. I wonder how many of the other big existential questions they decide after only a few years of thought.
Harlan
Posts: 1,880
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10/31/2009 8:12:39 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Good question. It might be because that theology is not based on any form of logic, which debating centers around. It's based on blind faith to an idea with little or no consideration of reason that substantiates that idea.
Harlan
Posts: 1,880
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10/31/2009 8:16:47 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 10/31/2009 8:11:20 PM, dogparktom wrote:
It amazes me how many kids in high school say that they are atheists. I wonder how many of the other big existential questions they decide after only a few years of thought.

Would not the reverse be true to? Do you then think that all teenagers should be completely devoid of opinion? I don't really see how thought at all is very possible without accompanying perception/opinion.

We're talking about Humans, not computers. You can't not have opinions.

Did you think, as a teenager?
dogparktom
Posts: 112
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10/31/2009 8:36:37 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Hi Harlen:

I'm 67 years old. There are issues that I have been studying and thinking about for my entire adult life. I would say that virtually all of my opinions have been tentative. I was educated by Jesuits. They taught us to beware of adopting quick certitudes and to cherish the independent mind. The urged us to engage in life-long independent study. As a teen-ager I simply was never intellectually inclined to declare absolutely that I was either an atheist or a theist. My model from scripture was the man who said to Jesus "Lord, I believe. Help me with my unbelief."
JBlake
Posts: 4,634
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10/31/2009 8:42:49 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 10/31/2009 8:11:20 PM, dogparktom wrote:
It amazes me how many kids in high school say that they are atheists. I wonder how many of the other big existential questions they decide after only a few years of thought.

Perhaps it is indicative of a general shift toward non-theism in our culture?
Vi_Veri
Posts: 4,487
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10/31/2009 8:52:24 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
lol Logical Master....

There are quiet a few theists on this website. Though, on average atheists tend to be more intellectual. That's not saying there aren't intelligent theists..... just more intelligent atheists ; )
I could give a f about no haters as long as my ishes love me.
tkubok
Posts: 5,044
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10/31/2009 8:59:06 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 10/31/2009 8:11:20 PM, dogparktom wrote:
It amazes me how many kids in high school say that they are atheists. I wonder how many of the other big existential questions they decide after only a few years of thought.

Well, we are all born atheist. And being born only takes a couple hours.

At 10/31/2009 8:36:37 PM, dogparktom wrote:
Hi Harlen:

I'm 67 years old. There are issues that I have been studying and thinking about for my entire adult life. I would say that virtually all of my opinions have been tentative. I was educated by Jesuits. They taught us to beware of adopting quick certitudes and to cherish the independent mind. The urged us to engage in life-long independent study. As a teen-ager I simply was never intellectually inclined to declare absolutely that I was either an atheist or a theist. My model from scripture was the man who said to Jesus "Lord, I believe. Help me with my unbelief."

My model from scripture was the man who said "If your family members try to persuade you to follow another religion, your hands are to be the first to put them to death. Show no pity. Then the hands of all the people. Put them to death".

Oh wait, that was God. And thats why im an atheist.
logicalmaster17
Posts: 4
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10/31/2009 9:26:52 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Why would atheists be smarter? Because they don't believe in something bigger and more powerful than themselves. If you ask me, its pride, and arrogance.
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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10/31/2009 9:31:37 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 10/31/2009 9:26:52 PM, logicalmaster17 wrote:
Why would atheists be smarter? Because they don't believe in something bigger and more powerful than themselves. If you ask me, its pride, and arrogance.

I don't necessarily believe atheists are "smarter," but most versed in science and even modern philosophy tend to be atheists, agnostics or deists. The stereotype that "atheists are smarter" comes from the fact that it appears (appears, not is) the intelligentsia is non-religious.

And, you know little about atheists if you believe it is a matter of pride or arrogance on their part. We may not believe in a higher, controlling power, but we're just as awed by the magnificence of the universe, and how small we truly are, as any religious person may also be.

In fact, if anything, the religious are more arrogant than others; your God is the one and only God, is He not? Everyone else is wrong, are they not? You don't call such assurances based on zero evidence "arrogant"?
RoyLatham
Posts: 4,488
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10/31/2009 9:52:53 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
I don't know what the statistics are, but my guess is that actually a minority here are atheists. A few are quite outspoken, so maybe it seems like there are more.

Around ages 15-20 are when many people assert their independence from their families. Its not surprising that many bold opinions are formed in those years.

I think that while traditional religion is less popular than with previous generations, new quasi-religions have filled the same needs. Political correctness has an elaborate system of good and evil that only cognoscenti master. "Green religions" require all sorts of symbolic actions in deference to the gods. For example, how else can one explain California banning the sale of black automobiles, except as a religious exercise? Or many people believing that buying carbon from others countries is moral while burning our own carbon is immoral? It is the modern manifestation of religion. I think the net for religious faith is as it has always been.
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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10/31/2009 9:57:19 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 10/31/2009 9:52:53 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
I don't know what the statistics are, but my guess is that actually a minority here are atheists. A few are quite outspoken, so maybe it seems like there are more.

http://www.debate.org...

Atheists/agnostics make up about 30% of the DDO population which specifies their preference. You're right that it is a minority, but it is quite a big minority, compared to the statistics of say, the United States.
tkubok
Posts: 5,044
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10/31/2009 9:58:44 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 10/31/2009 9:57:19 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 10/31/2009 9:52:53 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
I don't know what the statistics are, but my guess is that actually a minority here are atheists. A few are quite outspoken, so maybe it seems like there are more.

http://www.debate.org...

Atheists/agnostics make up about 30% of the DDO population which specifies their preference. You're right that it is a minority, but it is quite a big minority, compared to the statistics of say, the United States.

Agnostics may not be counted as being atheists. There may be some people who do not understand what Agnosticism means, and may be Agnostic Theists.
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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10/31/2009 10:00:40 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 10/31/2009 9:58:44 PM, tkubok wrote:
At 10/31/2009 9:57:19 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 10/31/2009 9:52:53 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
I don't know what the statistics are, but my guess is that actually a minority here are atheists. A few are quite outspoken, so maybe it seems like there are more.

http://www.debate.org...

Atheists/agnostics make up about 30% of the DDO population which specifies their preference. You're right that it is a minority, but it is quite a big minority, compared to the statistics of say, the United States.

Agnostics may not be counted as being atheists. There may be some people who do not understand what Agnosticism means, and may be Agnostic Theists.

Some f that 17% may not even be really atheist; that is the risk you run when you look at demographic statistics, but its quite acceptable.

But, even if you discount agnostics, 17% is a pretty big percentage.
tkubok
Posts: 5,044
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10/31/2009 10:02:26 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 10/31/2009 10:00:40 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 10/31/2009 9:58:44 PM, tkubok wrote:
At 10/31/2009 9:57:19 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 10/31/2009 9:52:53 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
I don't know what the statistics are, but my guess is that actually a minority here are atheists. A few are quite outspoken, so maybe it seems like there are more.

http://www.debate.org...

Atheists/agnostics make up about 30% of the DDO population which specifies their preference. You're right that it is a minority, but it is quite a big minority, compared to the statistics of say, the United States.

Agnostics may not be counted as being atheists. There may be some people who do not understand what Agnosticism means, and may be Agnostic Theists.

Some f that 17% may not even be really atheist; that is the risk you run when you look at demographic statistics, but its quite acceptable.

But, even if you discount agnostics, 17% is a pretty big percentage.

True, but a better conservative estimate may be around the percentage of 20.
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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10/31/2009 10:04:07 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 10/31/2009 10:02:26 PM, tkubok wrote:
At 10/31/2009 10:00:40 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 10/31/2009 9:58:44 PM, tkubok wrote:
At 10/31/2009 9:57:19 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 10/31/2009 9:52:53 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
I don't know what the statistics are, but my guess is that actually a minority here are atheists. A few are quite outspoken, so maybe it seems like there are more.

http://www.debate.org...

Atheists/agnostics make up about 30% of the DDO population which specifies their preference. You're right that it is a minority, but it is quite a big minority, compared to the statistics of say, the United States.

Agnostics may not be counted as being atheists. There may be some people who do not understand what Agnosticism means, and may be Agnostic Theists.

Some f that 17% may not even be really atheist; that is the risk you run when you look at demographic statistics, but its quite acceptable.

But, even if you discount agnostics, 17% is a pretty big percentage.

True, but a better conservative estimate may be around the percentage of 20.

Including those that may not list a preference, I'd agree.

Mind you, what do you think the percentage would be for those that are active users?
Logical-Master
Posts: 2,538
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10/31/2009 10:09:11 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 10/31/2009 9:31:37 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 10/31/2009 9:26:52 PM, logicalmaster17 wrote:
Why would atheists be smarter? Because they don't believe in something bigger and more powerful than themselves. If you ask me, its pride, and arrogance.

I don't necessarily believe atheists are "smarter," but most versed in science and even modern philosophy tend to be atheists, agnostics or deists. The stereotype that "atheists are smarter" comes from the fact that it appears (appears, not is) the intelligentsia is non-religious.

And, you know little about atheists if you believe it is a matter of pride or arrogance on their part. We may not believe in a higher, controlling power, but we're just as awed by the magnificence of the universe, and how small we truly are, as any religious person may also be.

In fact, if anything, the religious are more arrogant than others; your God is the one and only God, is He not? Everyone else is wrong, are they not? You don't call such assurances based on zero evidence "arrogant"?

The guy is trolling yah. :)
Kleptin
Posts: 5,095
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10/31/2009 10:11:35 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 10/31/2009 9:26:52 PM, logicalmaster17 wrote:
Why would atheists be smarter? Because they don't believe in something bigger and more powerful than themselves. If you ask me, its pride, and arrogance.

Theists are just as "prideful and arrogant" as Atheists. The only difference is that Atheists don't purposely delude themselves.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
Harlan
Posts: 1,880
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10/31/2009 10:21:56 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 10/31/2009 9:26:52 PM, logicalmaster17 wrote:
Why would atheists be smarter? Because they don't believe in something bigger and more powerful than themselves. If you ask me, its pride, and arrogance.

Yeah, I agree that "pride and arrogance" are the exact opposite to what we are talking about.

My belief that there are no gods or spiritual aspects of the universe, necessarily indicates that all human brains are nothing more than dogs' breakfasts, in effect. It means that all "value" is illusion, with no roots to the physical world whatsoever. That is definitely not based on arrogance or pride.
leet4A1
Posts: 1,986
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11/9/2009 3:17:45 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Well, we are all born atheist. And being born only takes a couple hours.

Referring to Dogparktom's statement that 15 year olds have no business being atheists, I think Tbukok won the thread with this statement.
"Let me tell you the truth. The truth is, 'what is'. And 'what should be' is a fantasy, a terrible terrible lie that someone gave to the people long ago. The 'what should be' never did exist, but people keep trying to live up to it. There is no 'what should be,' there is only what is." - Lenny Bruce

"Satan goes to church, did you know that?" - Godsands

"And Genisis 1 does match modern science... you just have to try really hard." - GR33K FR33K5
Kleptin
Posts: 5,095
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11/9/2009 3:51:23 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Falun Gong is a cult, one that was founded by a nutcase (like all other cults) who believes that he is the Xth incarnation of some spiritual deity (like all other cults) and claims that the practice of Falun Gong will allow people to levitate, be immortal, shoot fireballs, so on and so forth.

People who do the exercise routines are not the ones being arrested and persecuted in China. That doesn't distinguish them from Tai Chi practitioners. The ones being persecuted are the loudmouth idiots who are spreading propaganda against the Communist party, which is never a good idea.

In my opinion, any moron who is so stubborn as to devote their lives to thinking that a few body motions every morning can eventually make them go super-saiyan, deserves to be jailed >.>

Of course, every hippie-liberal college-aged moron on the East Coast seems to be some sort of sociological expert on how Falun Gong practitioners are innocent martyrs and how big bad China is oppressing them. Holocaust analogies ensue >.>
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
Alex
Posts: 2,058
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11/9/2009 4:09:55 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
In fact, if anything, the religious are more arrogant than others; your God is the one and only God, is He not? Everyone else is wrong, are they not? You don't call such assurances based on zero evidence "arrogant"?:

Saying there is zero evidence of the existence of the Christian God is silly.
Why kill people who kill people to show that killing people is wrong?
omelet
Posts: 416
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11/9/2009 4:17:40 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/9/2009 4:09:55 PM, alex_hanson911 wrote:
In fact, if anything, the religious are more arrogant than others; your God is the one and only God, is He not? Everyone else is wrong, are they not? You don't call such assurances based on zero evidence "arrogant"?:

Saying there is zero evidence of the existence of the Christian God is silly.
Zero verifiable evidence. There's plenty of unverifiable testimony, but that's it.
If you think there's any evidence aside from mere claims, please present it.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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11/9/2009 4:27:50 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/9/2009 4:09:55 PM, alex_hanson911 wrote:
In fact, if anything, the religious are more arrogant than others; your God is the one and only God, is He not? Everyone else is wrong, are they not? You don't call such assurances based on zero evidence "arrogant"?:

Saying there is zero evidence of the existence of the Christian God is silly.

What do you mean by the Christian God? Yahweh or Jesus? Yahweh, there is zero evidence for his existence as a supernatural being, but perhaps as a mortal being who has already died. Jesus was a mortal man, not a God.

You know many of the Greek gods were probably just men who were later deified, and could be the case with Yahweh. He just has too many human-like characteristics.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
ToastOfDestiny
Posts: 990
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11/9/2009 6:30:51 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 10/31/2009 8:59:06 PM, tkubok wrote:
Well, we are all born atheist. And being born only takes a couple hours.
Sigged
At 10/11/2009 8:28:18 PM, banker wrote:
Our demise and industrial destruction
At 10/11/2009 10:00:21 PM, regebro wrote:
Only exists in your head, as already shown.

At 10/11/2009 8:28:18 PM, banker wrote:
reveal why you answer with a question mark
At 10/11/2009 10:00:21 PM, regebro wrote:
Because it was a question.

RFDs Pl0x:
http://www.debate.org...
leet4A1
Posts: 1,986
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11/9/2009 6:41:21 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/9/2009 6:35:42 PM, mongeese wrote:
Actually, we were born agnostic. About everything.

Agnosticism and atheism are not mutually exclusive.

Agnosticism is a statement of knowledge, whereas atheism is a statement of belief.

We are born both agnostic and atheist.
"Let me tell you the truth. The truth is, 'what is'. And 'what should be' is a fantasy, a terrible terrible lie that someone gave to the people long ago. The 'what should be' never did exist, but people keep trying to live up to it. There is no 'what should be,' there is only what is." - Lenny Bruce

"Satan goes to church, did you know that?" - Godsands

"And Genisis 1 does match modern science... you just have to try really hard." - GR33K FR33K5
Xer
Posts: 7,776
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11/9/2009 6:42:31 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/9/2009 6:35:42 PM, mongeese wrote:
Actually, we were born agnostic. About everything.

Everything? Ehh, no. We are animals ya know.