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Jesus Was A Vine

GarretKadeDupre
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2/8/2013 5:36:22 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Dogknox and annanicole have been arguing over this, and I've become interested.

I've been entertaining this idea in my head and I've come to the conclusion that Jesus was, in fact, a grape vine.

1. Jesus said he was a vine.

2. Jesus, like other plants, could make his own food (see the story of the loaves and fish).

3. Grape juice is Jesus' blood.
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Sidewalker
Posts: 3,713
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2/8/2013 7:04:09 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/8/2013 5:36:22 AM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
Dogknox and annanicole have been arguing over this, and I've become interested.

I've been entertaining this idea in my head and I've come to the conclusion that Jesus was, in fact, a grape vine.

1. Jesus said he was a vine.

2. Jesus, like other plants, could make his own food (see the story of the loaves and fish).

3. Grape juice is Jesus' blood.

He also said he was a door, how can a vine be a door? Is grape juice door blood, can doors make thier own food? What do doors eat?

I'm confused.
"It is one of the commonest of mistakes to consider that the limit of our power of perception is also the limit of all there is to perceive." " C. W. Leadbeater
TheAntidoter
Posts: 4,323
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2/8/2013 7:54:48 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/8/2013 5:36:22 AM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
Dogknox and annanicole have been arguing over this, and I've become interested.

I've been entertaining this idea in my head and I've come to the conclusion that Jesus was, in fact, a grape vine.

1. Jesus said he was a vine.

2. Jesus, like other plants, could make his own food (see the story of the loaves and fish).

3. Grape juice is Jesus' blood.

He also bled both "grape juice" and water from his vines.
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GarretKadeDupre
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2/8/2013 9:12:15 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/8/2013 7:04:09 AM, Sidewalker wrote:
At 2/8/2013 5:36:22 AM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
Dogknox and annanicole have been arguing over this, and I've become interested.

I've been entertaining this idea in my head and I've come to the conclusion that Jesus was, in fact, a grape vine.

1. Jesus said he was a vine.

2. Jesus, like other plants, could make his own food (see the story of the loaves and fish).

3. Grape juice is Jesus' blood.

He also said he was a door, how can a vine be a door? Is grape juice door blood, can doors make thier own food? What do doors eat?

I'm confused.

Jesus was speaking in allegory when he said he was a door. Don't take everything so literally.

At 2/8/2013 7:54:48 AM, TheAntidoter wrote:
At 2/8/2013 5:36:22 AM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
Dogknox and annanicole have been arguing over this, and I've become interested.

I've been entertaining this idea in my head and I've come to the conclusion that Jesus was, in fact, a grape vine.

1. Jesus said he was a vine.

2. Jesus, like other plants, could make his own food (see the story of the loaves and fish).

3. Grape juice is Jesus' blood.

He also bled both "grape juice" and water from his vines.

That's right! And on the cross, he said, "I thirst." Why was he thirsty? Because he was uprooted off the ground and suspended in the air on the cross. This prevented him from absorbing moisture form the earth.

1. Jesus said he was a vine.

2. Jesus, like other plants, could make his own food (see the story of the loaves and fish).

3. Grape juice is Jesus' blood (see the story of the Last Supper, where Jesus called grape juice his blood, and the story of the Crucifixion, where he bled grape juice and water when he was speared).

4. Jesus said, "I thirst" on the the cross because he was nailed in the air, uprooted from the ground and thus he could not absorb moisture from the earth.
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annanicole
Posts: 19,791
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2/8/2013 10:06:11 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/8/2013 5:36:22 AM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
Dogknox and annanicole have been arguing over this, and I've become interested.

I've been entertaining this idea in my head and I've come to the conclusion that Jesus was, in fact, a grape vine.

1. Jesus said he was a vine.

2. Jesus, like other plants, could make his own food (see the story of the loaves and fish).

3. Grape juice is Jesus' blood.

There is no argument: just pointing out that "This is my body" and "This is my blood" is metaphorical by giving similar metaphors with reference to Christ. Herod was a fox. Jesus was a Lamb - yet was also a Lion. John the Baptist was, I guess, a road-builder because he paved the way. Jesus was the light of the world.

Amazingly, Dogknox said that Jesus was a literal vine with leaves and roots. As such, His "blood" would have been chorophyll - and Dogknox should put chlorophyll in his so-called "eucharist." It's all just Catholic silliness, absolute nonsense concocted in an age of superstition designed to lend more power and money to their peeping-tom clergy.

You see, Catholics think that one is SAVED by drinking the literal blood of Jesus, kinda like ticks and mosquitos. I mean LITERAL. But the wine cannot be changed into blood without the blessing of the popish priest, i. e. the blessing of the priest stands right smack in the middle of a Catholic and heaven. A wonderful recipe for control of the gullible, I'd say. Most ridiculous and contradictory system on the face of the earth.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
medic0506
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2/8/2013 1:13:48 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/8/2013 8:09:50 AM, Kinesis wrote:
The bible is literally true guys. I can't believe you ever doubted this.

You're being too literal with the word "literal".
Heineken
Posts: 1,230
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2/8/2013 1:28:46 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/8/2013 10:06:11 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 2/8/2013 5:36:22 AM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
Dogknox and annanicole have been arguing over this, and I've become interested.

I've been entertaining this idea in my head and I've come to the conclusion that Jesus was, in fact, a grape vine.

1. Jesus said he was a vine.

2. Jesus, like other plants, could make his own food (see the story of the loaves and fish).

3. Grape juice is Jesus' blood.

There is no argument: just pointing out that "This is my body" and "This is my blood" is metaphorical by giving similar metaphors with reference to Christ. Herod was a fox. Jesus was a Lamb - yet was also a Lion. John the Baptist was, I guess, a road-builder because he paved the way. Jesus was the light of the world.

Amazingly, Dogknox said that Jesus was a literal vine with leaves and roots. As such, His "blood" would have been chorophyll - and Dogknox should put chlorophyll in his so-called "eucharist." It's all just Catholic silliness, absolute nonsense concocted in an age of superstition designed to lend more power and money to their peeping-tom clergy.

You see, Catholics think that one is SAVED by drinking the literal blood of Jesus, kinda like ticks and mosquitos. I mean LITERAL. But the wine cannot be changed into blood without the blessing of the popish priest, i. e. the blessing of the priest stands right smack in the middle of a Catholic and heaven. A wonderful recipe for control of the gullible, I'd say. Most ridiculous and contradictory system on the face of the earth.

How can Christ be the literal vine, when he's the literal brick? (Chief cornerstone)
Vidi, vici, veni.
(I saw, I conquered, I came.)
Dogknox
Posts: 5,087
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2/8/2013 2:30:32 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
GarretKadeDupre & Sidewalker Jesus is a Vine, and Christians are the Branches!
All cut off from the vine: DIE!!!
This is a good allegory!
ALLEGORY- device or character that is symbolic, rather than literal.

GarretKadeDupre & Sidewalker Jesus formed ONE Church, the Church is the Body of Jesus!
All who remain in Jesus' body are God' children!
All who remain in Jesus' body honor Mary their mother!
All who are NOT in Jesus' body are PAGAN!!
Pagan- Anyone who is not God' child!

Matthew 18:17
If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

Jesus is the LIFE!! All who eat the flesh of Jesus eat LIFE!
35 Then Jesus declared, "I am the bread of life.

Jesus is The LIFE "Come down from heaven"!
41 At this the Jews there began to grumble about him because he said, "I am the bread that came down from heaven."

Jesus is Bread of LIFE, COME DOWN FROM HEAVEN!
47 Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life.
48 I am the bread of life.


Christians believe the scriptures! This is what makes Christians CHRISTIAN, they believe the words of Jesus, they believe Jesus is the Holy one of God!

God comes down from heaven!!!
50 But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which anyone may eat and not die.
51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world."


The BREAD is the LIFE come down from heaven!
The Tree Of LIFE, is in heaven!
Adam lost access to the "Tree Of Life" so Adam dies!!
Jesus is a second Adam.. Jesus has ACCESS!
Jesus has Access to the "Tree Of Life" Jesus feeds his BODY LIFE! Jesus feeds his Body, the Holy Catholic Church, LIFE come down from heaven!
Ephesians 5:29
After all, no one ever hated their own body, but they feed and care for their body, just as Christ does the church" 30 for we are members of his body.

Jesus feeds his BODY.. Life from heaven!!
The Holy Catholic Body of the second Adam, has ACCESS to the "Tree Of Life"! The second Adam has Access to LIFE come down from heaven!

Catholic's believe the scriptures!
Ignatius of Antioch is CHRISTIAN>> Christian believe the words of Jesus!
Ignatius said...
"I have no taste for corruptible food nor for the pleasures of this life. I desire the bread of God, which is the flesh of Jesus Christ, who was of the seed of David; and for drink I desire his blood, which is love incorruptible" (Letter to the Romans 7:3 [A.D. 110]).

Ignatius of Antioch is CHRISTIAN, he eats the Flesh of Jesus; "The LIFE!"

Clement of Alexandria is a CHRISTIAN!!
Clement said..
""Eat my flesh," [Jesus] says, "and drink my blood." The Lord supplies us with these intimate nutrients, he delivers over his flesh and pours out his blood, and nothing is lacking for the growth of his children" (The Instructor of Children 1:6:43:3 [A.D. 191]).

Clement of Alexandria believes the words of Jesus!

Augustine is another Christian.. Christians eat the living forever flesh of Jesus!
Christians have LIFE because they EAT LIFE!
Augustine said...
"Christ was carried in his own hands when, referring to his own body, he said, "This is my body" [Matt. 26:26]. For he carried that body in his hands" (Explanations of the Psalms 33:1:10 [A.D. 405]).

Augustine believes the words of Jesus! As Jesus held bread Jesus declared; "This IS my body"!

Dogknox
annanicole
Posts: 19,791
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2/8/2013 5:17:43 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/8/2013 2:30:32 PM, Dogknox wrote:
GarretKadeDupre & Sidewalker Jesus is a Vine, and Christians are the Branches!
All cut off from the vine: DIE!!!
This is a good allegory!
ALLEGORY- device or character that is symbolic, rather than literal.

THANK YOU! It took an entirely different post for Dogknox to admit that "the vine" ... "the branches" ... "the door" ... are all GOOD ALLEGORIES, i. e. they are simply metaphors.

GarretKadeDupre & Sidewalker Jesus formed ONE Church, the Church is the Body of Jesus!

The subject was not exactly the church; it was the vine and branches.

All who remain in Jesus' body are God' children!

True

All who remain in Jesus' body honor Mary their mother!

They honor her. That's all they do, however. Honor her.

All who are NOT in Jesus' body are PAGAN!!

Ummm ... ok

Pagan- Anyone who is not God' child!

Thank you for that tidbit.

Matthew 18:17
If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

Jesus is the LIFE!! All who eat the flesh of Jesus eat LIFE!

Of course, if the VINE is figurative, if the BRANCHES are figurative, if the DOOR is figurative --> nothing prevents the FLESH from being figurative.

35 Then Jesus declared, "I am the bread of life.

Jesus is The LIFE "Come down from heaven"!

Figuratively.

41 At this the Jews there began to grumble about him because he said, "I am the bread that came down from heaven."

True. The Jews didn't understand it any better than you do - but they had an excuse.

Jesus is Bread of LIFE, COME DOWN FROM HEAVEN!

Jesus is figuratively the vine and figurately the bread. 'Tis most inconsistent to say "the vine", "the branches", "the door", "the light" are all figurative, then turn right around and assert that the bread is literal.

47 Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life.
48 I am the bread of life.


Christians believe the scriptures! This is what makes Christians CHRISTIAN, they believe the words of Jesus, they believe Jesus is the Holy one of God!

Christians not only believe the scriptures, they rightly divide them, i. e. they stay consistent.

God comes down from heaven!!!
50 But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which anyone may eat and not die.
51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world."


The BREAD is the LIFE come down from heaven!

Didn't you already say that a couple of times?

The Tree Of LIFE, is in heaven!

We know where the tree of life is if we've studied Revelation.

Adam lost access to the "Tree Of Life" so Adam dies!!

Of course.

Jesus is a second Adam.. Jesus has ACCESS!

Jesus is figuratively a second Adam. He is also a second Moses. Many of the OT characters were types or figures of Christ.

Jesus has Access to the "Tree Of Life" Jesus feeds his BODY LIFE! Jesus feeds his Body, the Holy Catholic Church, LIFE come down from heaven!

Oh, c'mon. You think that the Son of God somehow feeds the Roman Catholic church down here on earth from the Tree of Life which is in heaven. Methinks you are again headed toward the ditch.

Ephesians 5:29
After all, no one ever hated their own body, but they feed and care for their body, just as Christ does the church" 30 for we are members of his body.

Jesus feeds his BODY.. Life from heaven!!
The Holy Catholic Body of the second Adam, has ACCESS to the "Tree Of Life"!

LOL @ the popish church down here on earth having access to the same Tree of Life that was in the Garden of Eden. I never knew they made that pretension.

The second Adam has Access to LIFE come down from heaven!

Seems I've seen that statement three or four times

Catholic's believe the scriptures!

Ummm ... not if they believe some far-fetched story about Jesus feeding the Roman Catholic church on earth his literal flesh and that that somehow gives the pope and his minions access to the Tree of Life from back in the Garden of Eden. You figured that out - knowing that the Bible doesn't even mention a pope, a cardinal, or the Roman Catholic Church? I see why someone made the post now: to get a good laugh!

Ignatius of Antioch is CHRISTIAN>> Christian believe the words of Jesus!
Ignatius said...
"I have no taste for corruptible food nor for the pleasures of this life. I desire the bread of God, which is the flesh of Jesus Christ, who was of the seed of David; and for drink I desire his blood, which is love incorruptible" (Letter to the Romans 7:3 [A.D. 110]).

And you think Ignatius had in mind that the bread and wine are literal flesh and blood? Literal? Why, Ignatius said right in your quote that "his blood" is "love incorruptible."

Ignatius of Antioch is CHRISTIAN, he eats the Flesh of Jesus; "The LIFE!"

He sure did, figuratively - just like he thought Jesus was the vine, figuratively

Clement of Alexandria is a CHRISTIAN!!
Clement said..
""Eat my flesh," [Jesus] says, "and drink my blood." The Lord supplies us with these intimate nutrients, he delivers over his flesh and pours out his blood, and nothing is lacking for the growth of his children" (The Instructor of Children 1:6:43:3 [A.D. 191]).

Clement of Alexandria believes the words of Jesus!

Yeah, but Clement failed to say that he thought he was drinking literal blood with red blood cells, white blood cells, platelets, etc.

Augustine is another Christian.. Christians eat the living forever flesh of Jesus!

LOL @ "living-forever flesh". Of course, the Bible knows of no such phrase.

Christians have LIFE because they EAT LIFE!
Augustine said...
"Christ was carried in his own hands when, referring to his own body, he said, "This is my body" [Matt. 26:26]. For he carried that body in his hands" (Explanations of the Psalms 33:1:10 [A.D. 405]).

Augustine believes the words of Jesus! As Jesus held bread Jesus declared; "This IS my body"!

Why would you worry about what Augustine said? Augustine also said:

(quote) "Christ, you see, built his Church not on a man but on Peter"s confession. What is Peter"s confession? "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." There"s the rock for you, there"s the foundation, there"s where the Church has been built, which the gates of the underworld cannot conquer." (end quote) St. Augustine, Sermon 229P

You turned right around, after considering the above quote, and told everyone that Augustine said, "Peter was the Rock" - knowing good and well that Augustine said precisely the opposite in the quote.

Pfffffffffft
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Franz_Reynard
Posts: 1,227
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2/8/2013 5:19:27 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/8/2013 8:09:50 AM, Kinesis wrote:
The bible is literally true guys. I can't believe you ever doubted this.

Sigh. I admit it. I LOLed.
Polaris
Posts: 1,120
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2/8/2013 5:33:08 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/8/2013 7:04:09 AM, Sidewalker wrote:
At 2/8/2013 5:36:22 AM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
Dogknox and annanicole have been arguing over this, and I've become interested.

I've been entertaining this idea in my head and I've come to the conclusion that Jesus was, in fact, a grape vine.

1. Jesus said he was a vine.

2. Jesus, like other plants, could make his own food (see the story of the loaves and fish).

3. Grape juice is Jesus' blood.

He also said he was a door

And also Light.

Ergo, Jesus was a vine door made of light.
annanicole
Posts: 19,791
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2/8/2013 5:39:36 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
... and a literal lamb with cloven hooves and wool, and a literal lion with claws and fangs? Plus, a literal door ... a literal light .. and a literal vine?

If yes, we'll sign you up for Catholic Catechism class. Like Uncle Sam, "They want you."
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
matt.mcguire88
Posts: 1,137
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2/8/2013 7:14:00 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Huh? I'm confused, is this supposed to be sarcastic :/

And why does that "dognox" keep yelling at everyone lol?
annanicole
Posts: 19,791
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2/8/2013 7:24:49 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Very sarcastic. Dogknox claims Jesus was metaphorically a door, metaphorically a vine, metaphorically a lamb ... that Herod was metaphorically a fox ... that John the Baptist was metaphorically a road-builder ....................

But when it comes to "This is my blood", Dogknox knows it looks like wine, tastes like wine, smells like wine - enough of it would even get one drunk like wine, but he abandons all reason and swears it turns into literal blood with RBC's, WBC's, platelets, and plasma. Hence, the sarcasm.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,286
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2/8/2013 7:28:37 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/8/2013 7:14:00 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
Huh? I'm confused, is this supposed to be sarcastic :/

And why does that "dognox" keep yelling at everyone lol?

I'm just curious: does anyone else find that, in their mind's eye, or ear, Dogknox's posts read like Heimskr's voice?
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
annanicole
Posts: 19,791
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2/8/2013 7:37:09 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/8/2013 7:28:37 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 2/8/2013 7:14:00 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
Huh? I'm confused, is this supposed to be sarcastic :/

And why does that "dognox" keep yelling at everyone lol?

I'm just curious: does anyone else find that, in their mind's eye, or ear, Dogknox's posts read like Heimskr's voice?



LMAO ... 'Tis a dead-ringer!
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
philochristos
Posts: 2,614
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2/8/2013 7:50:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Why don't we just settle this with a debate?
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
Franz_Reynard
Posts: 1,227
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2/8/2013 7:52:44 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/8/2013 7:37:09 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 2/8/2013 7:28:37 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 2/8/2013 7:14:00 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
Huh? I'm confused, is this supposed to be sarcastic :/

And why does that "dognox" keep yelling at everyone lol?

I'm just curious: does anyone else find that, in their mind's eye, or ear, Dogknox's posts read like Heimskr's voice?


LMAO ... 'Tis a dead-ringer!
Sidewalker
Posts: 3,713
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2/8/2013 8:20:47 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/8/2013 5:33:08 PM, Polaris wrote:
At 2/8/2013 7:04:09 AM, Sidewalker wrote:
At 2/8/2013 5:36:22 AM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
Dogknox and annanicole have been arguing over this, and I've become interested.

I've been entertaining this idea in my head and I've come to the conclusion that Jesus was, in fact, a grape vine.

1. Jesus said he was a vine.

2. Jesus, like other plants, could make his own food (see the story of the loaves and fish).

3. Grape juice is Jesus' blood.

He also said he was a door

And also Light.

Ergo, Jesus was a vine door made of light.

Don't forget a bright morning star, and bread, and a shephard, the first & the last, and the way, the truth, and the life.

This is really getting complicated, is there an artist rendering somehwere?
"It is one of the commonest of mistakes to consider that the limit of our power of perception is also the limit of all there is to perceive." " C. W. Leadbeater
GarretKadeDupre
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2/8/2013 9:17:20 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/8/2013 7:14:00 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
Huh? I'm confused, is this supposed to be sarcastic :/

Not sarcastic at all, you pagan heathen heretic.
Proof that people witnessed living dinosaurs:
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annanicole
Posts: 19,791
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2/8/2013 10:24:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
"When did I say I lay aside the word of God?"

When you said that God led you, at times, by direct revealings and movements. At those times, you have no need for the word of God since God is informing you directly.

"That is a complete distortion of what I've written."

No, it's a direct implication of it. Repeat: IF you claim direct interventions, direct revealings or revelation, direct "movements" - if you do that - then you necessarily have no need for the word of God at that time.

"I don't rely on anything but God and His word."

GREAT! Then you have no need at all for addition revealings and movements and interventions or whatever, do you? I do not see how you could, yet you said, "If God does not move in your life and reveal things to you, then I don't know why your a christian." I simply said God "moves" and "reveals" through His word - and in no other way.

"YOU'RE the one who does not believe in God's word here, not me lol."

Blah. I rely on the word of God, the Bible, 100%.

"And I just receive what God freely gives when I seek Him and when I lay things down, you have a problem with that?."

Not so long as what God "freely gives you" is solely the word of God, the Bible. I reject the notion of mysterious leadings and spooky "movements."

"Stop trying to make everything I say evil and if you don't like what the bible teaches and you don't prefer my testimony, then talk to Dogknox :)"

#1 I never said "everything you say" is evil. I said if you are led by God at all, you are led through His word and not by mysterious "revealings."
#2 If I don't like what the Bible teaches? The Bible is my only guide!
#3 Don't prefer your testimony? LOL I could care less about anybody's "testimony", including my own. I'd care much more about what the Bible teaches on a particular subject.
#4 Talk to Dogknox? You gotta be kidding: he's a step worse. He follows someone else's leadings.

As long as you are guided by the Bible and the Bible alone - if the Bible is supplying 100% of your information, 100% of your feelings, 100% of your actions - of course there are no problems. The only objection was: you claim to be guided by the Bible, then in the next breath, want to "testify" about additional things God has "revealed" to you personally. There's the problem.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
annanicole
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2/8/2013 10:28:34 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ skip that: it was posted on the wrong thread
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Dogknox
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2/8/2013 11:09:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/8/2013 5:33:08 PM, Polaris wrote:
At 2/8/2013 7:04:09 AM, Sidewalker wrote:
At 2/8/2013 5:36:22 AM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
Dogknox and annanicole have been arguing over this, and I've become interested.

I've been entertaining this idea in my head and I've come to the conclusion that Jesus was, in fact, a grape vine.

1. Jesus said he was a vine.

2. Jesus, like other plants, could make his own food (see the story of the loaves and fish).

3. Grape juice is Jesus' blood.

He also said he was a door

And also Light.

Ergo, Jesus was a vine door made of light.
Polaris Yup and Jesus is also BREAD!!!
Jesus took the Form of bread!
The Christian God can do all things, our God is almighty!
Our God can take any form he desires; "Fire, Smoke, Dove, Man and yes even Bread!"
Looks as bread, tastes as bread, smells as bread but is the living forever flesh of God!

I KNOW beyond all doubt Jesus is in me.. "I eat his living forever flesh!"
Jesus speaks LITERALLY in John 6!!
"My flesh is real food, my blood is real drink"!

Dogknox
Suqua
Posts: 433
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2/8/2013 11:46:26 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/8/2013 11:09:41 PM, Dogknox wrote:
At 2/8/2013 5:33:08 PM, Polaris wrote:
At 2/8/2013 7:04:09 AM, Sidewalker wrote:
At 2/8/2013 5:36:22 AM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
Dogknox and annanicole have been arguing over this, and I've become interested.

I've been entertaining this idea in my head and I've come to the conclusion that Jesus was, in fact, a grape vine.

1. Jesus said he was a vine.

2. Jesus, like other plants, could make his own food (see the story of the loaves and fish).

3. Grape juice is Jesus' blood.

He also said he was a door

And also Light.

Ergo, Jesus was a vine door made of light.
Polaris Yup and Jesus is also BREAD!!!
Jesus took the Form of bread!
The Christian God can do all things, our God is almighty!
Our God can take any form he desires; "Fire, Smoke, Dove, Man and yes even Bread!"
Looks as bread, tastes as bread, smells as bread but is the living forever flesh of God!

I KNOW beyond all doubt Jesus is in me.. "I eat his living forever flesh!"
Jesus speaks LITERALLY in John 6!!
"My flesh is real food, my blood is real drink"!

Dogknox

So how does this happen?
annanicole
Posts: 19,791
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2/9/2013 12:07:57 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/8/2013 11:09:41 PM, Dogknox wrote:
At 2/8/2013 5:33:08 PM, Polaris wrote:
At 2/8/2013 7:04:09 AM, Sidewalker wrote:
At 2/8/2013 5:36:22 AM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
Dogknox and annanicole have been arguing over this, and I've become interested.

I've been entertaining this idea in my head and I've come to the conclusion that Jesus was, in fact, a grape vine.

1. Jesus said he was a vine.

2. Jesus, like other plants, could make his own food (see the story of the loaves and fish).

3. Grape juice is Jesus' blood.

He also said he was a door

And also Light.

Ergo, Jesus was a vine door made of light.
Polaris Yup and Jesus is also BREAD!!!
Jesus took the Form of bread!
The Christian God can do all things, our God is almighty!
Our God can take any form he desires; "Fire, Smoke, Dove, Man and yes even Bread!"
Looks as bread, tastes as bread, smells as bread but is the living forever flesh of God!

I KNOW beyond all doubt Jesus is in me.. "I eat his living forever flesh!"
Jesus speaks LITERALLY in John 6!!
"My flesh is real food, my blood is real drink"!

Dogknox

How do you know He spoke literally? How do you know that "I am the vine" is purely metaphorical, yet "This is my body" is 100% literal? Jesus could just as easily be a vine as bread, could He not? By what rule of exegesis did you determine that:

(1) I am the vine is metaphorical
(2) I am the door is metaphorical
(3) I am the light of the world is metaphorical
(4) I am the bright and morning star is metaphorical
(5) Herod, that old fox, is metaphorical ...................................., yet

(6) This is my body is 100% literal.

You do a complete flip. Heck, you concede that it was still just unleavened bread. You concede that it looked like unleaved bread, tasted the same, felt the same, smelled the same ... yet go to great lengths to simply ASSERT that unleavened bread is literally Jesus's flesh.

Dogknox, that unleavened bread did NOT look like flesh, did NOT feel like flesh, did NOT "taste" like flesh - it was still plain old unleavened bread.

You will notice that the Catholic Encylopedia, if you bother to read it, pretty much passed over the beliefs of Clement of Alexandria, Origen, and Tertullian.

"Passing over the teaching of the Alexandrine Clement and Origen, whose love of allegory, together with the restrictions of the Disciplina Arcani, involved their writings in mystic obscurity" - Catholic Encyclopedia, Sacrifice of the Mass

LOL @ mystic obscurity. The fact is that Clement of Alexandria and Origen believed in the metaphorical presence: I looked up their writings on the subject, and they aren't "mystically obscure" at all - not on that subject.

Thus, your assertion that all of the early Christians believed the bread and wine to be literal flesh and blood is simply not true. Not even close to true. They varied on it - just as they did on just about everything else. Your popish claims of unanimity are very much unfounded.

Suppose I simply decide that I AM eating the literal flesh of Jesus, and I AM drinking the literal blood? Then what? Why, we all know WHAT. You'll turn right around and tell me I'm not doing any such thing, because you believe it TAKES A CATHOLIC PRIEST to do the magic, right?

Anyway, just pointing out the inconsistency of your position as far as metaphors go, and misrepresentations that you attempt when you imply that church fathers unanimously believed in the literal presence. They didn't at all. Some did. Some did not. That's why relying (not merely citing, but relying) upon quotes from church fathers is a precarious undertaking.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Nidhogg
Posts: 503
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2/9/2013 12:25:10 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Jesus was Canadian.

Just think about that for a minute.
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AlwaysMoreThanYou
Posts: 2,900
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2/9/2013 2:10:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Jesus was also bread. Explain that.
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13