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Exodus 33 Contradiction?

stubs
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2/9/2013 12:30:08 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I myself do not believe this to be a contradiction based on studies I have done however I did want to get others opinions on the subject.

In Exodus 33:11 it says the Lord would speak to Moses face to face, as a man speaks with his friend.

Just a few verses later in verse 20 it says that you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live.

Again verse 23 reiterates the point saying my face must not be seen.

So did Moses and God speak face to face as it says in verse 11 or can no one see the face of the lord as it says in verse 20 and 23?

And yes the Hebrew word for face is the exact same. I knew someone would bring that up so I checked with a professor.

Would love to hear some input. Thanks.
annanicole
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2/9/2013 12:49:15 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I would say "face to face" in v11 means "personally and directly" or "one-on-one" as opposed to communication via messengers such as angels, signs, visions, dreams, and the like. His communication with Moses was to be without mediation and personally as one would communicate by phone, for instance, today. The passage also implies that the communication between Moses and God would be two-way as opposed to a one-sided dialogue in which God simply issues directives to Moses.
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bladerunner060
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2/9/2013 1:13:31 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/9/2013 12:49:15 AM, annanicole wrote:
I would say "face to face" in v11 means "personally and directly" or "one-on-one" as opposed to communication via messengers such as angels, signs, visions, dreams, and the like. His communication with Moses was to be without mediation and personally as one would communicate by phone, for instance, today. The passage also implies that the communication between Moses and God would be two-way as opposed to a one-sided dialogue in which God simply issues directives to Moses.

But no one calls a phone conversation a "face to face" one.
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FREEDO
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2/9/2013 1:17:08 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Of all the potential contradictions, you pick that one?

"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."
~Genesis 2:17 (King James Version)

"And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died."
Genesis 5:5 (King James Version)

>>Either God lied or this is a contradiction. One says he would die that day. The other says he died much later.

"And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering"
~Genesis 4:4 (King James Version)

"Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons"
~Acts 10:34 (King James Version)

>>One says God respected someone. The other says God respects no one.

"And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart."
~Genesis 6:6 (King James Version)

"And also the Strength of Israel will not lie nor repent: for he is not a man, that he should repent."
~1 Samuel 15:29 (King James Version)

>>One says God repented. The other says God never repents. Also, it says he never lies, which would make the first verse I posted have to be a contradiction.

"And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female."
~Genesis 6:19 (King James Version)

"Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female."
~Genesis 7:2 (King James Version)

>>One says two animals every kind were put in the ark. The other says of some kinds there were seven taken.

"By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations."
Genesis 10:5 (King James Version)

"And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech."
Genesis 11:1 (King James Version)
(note:both took place before the Tower of Babel.)

>>One describes there being multiple languages before the Tower of Babel, the other says there was only one.

"And he said unto him, Take me an heifer of three years old, and a she goat of three years old, and a ram of three years old, and a turtledove, and a young pigeon."
~Genesis 15:9 (King James Version)

"For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices"
~Jeremiah 7:22 (King James Version)

>>One describes God commanding a sacrifice. The other describes God later saying he never commanding any offerings.

"For with God nothing shall be impossible."
~Luke 1:37 (King James Version)

"And the LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron."
~Judges 1:19 (King James Version)

>>Lol, that may be one of the most hilarious verses I've seen. Apparently God is all-powerful except when it comes to iron chariots.

"And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am."
~Genesis 22:1 (King James Version)

"Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man"
~James 1:13 (King James Version)

>>One says God tempted someone. The other says God tempts no one.

"For his sons carried him[Jacob] into the land of Canaan, and buried him in the cave of the field of Machpelah, which Abraham bought with the field for a possession of a buryingplace of Ephron the Hittite, before Mamre."
~Genesis 50:13 (King James Version)

"So Jacob went down into Egypt, and died, he, and our fathers,
And were carried over into Sychem, and laid in the sepulchre that Abraham bought for a sum of money of the sons of Emmor the father of Sychem."
~Acts 7:15-16 (King James Version)

>>These verses describe Jacob being buried in two different locations.

"The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name."
~Exodus 15:3 (King James Version)

"Now the God of peace be with you all. Amen."
~Romans 15:33 (King James Version)

>>One says God is a man of war. The other says he is the God of peace.

"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth."
~Exodus 20:4 (King James Version)

"And thou shalt make two cherubims[angels] of gold, of beaten work shalt thou make them, in the two ends of the mercy seat."
~Exodus 25:18 (King James Version)

>>One of God's ten commandments is to not make any graven image or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven yet commands they do so only five chapters later.

"Thou shalt not kill."
~Exodus 20:13 (King James Version)

"And he said unto them, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbor."
~Exodus 32:27 (King James Version)

>>One of God's commandments is not to kill yet commands them to do so only 12 chapters later.

"And the priest shall make an atonement for the soul that sinneth ignorantly, when he sinneth by ignorance before the LORD, to make an atonement for him; and it shall be forgiven him."
~Numbers 15:28 (King James Version)

"And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins."
~Hebrews 10:11 (King James Version)

>>One says offerings forgive sins. The other says they don't.

"And Aaron the priest went up into mount Hor at the commandment of the LORD, and died there, in the fortieth year after the children of Israel were come out of the land of Egypt, in the first day of the fifth month."
~Numbers 33:38 (King James Version)

"And the children of Israel took their journey from Beeroth of the children of Jaakan to Mosera: there Aaron died, and there he was buried; and Eleazar his son ministered in the priest's office in his stead."
~Deuteronomy 10:6 (King James Version)

>>These verse describe Aaron dieing in two different places.

"When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house.
And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man's wife."
~Deuteronomy 24:1-2 (King James Version)

"And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her.
And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery."
~Mark 10:11 (King James Version)

>>One says that a man can divorce his wife simply because he doesn't like her anymore and they can remarry, yet the other says it's a sin to remarry.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
FREEDO
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2/9/2013 1:17:35 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
"To morrow about this time I will send thee a man out of the land of Benjamin, and thou shalt anoint him to be captain over my people Israel, that he may save my people out of the hand of the Philistines: for I have looked upon my people, because their cry is come unto me.
And when Samuel saw Saul, the LORD said unto him, Behold the man whom I spake to thee of! this same shall reign over my people."
~ 1 Samuel 9:16-17 (King James Version)

"And when the men of Israel that were on the other side of the valley, and they that were on the other side Jordan, saw that the men of Israel fled, and that Saul and his sons were dead, they forsook the cities, and fled; and the Philistines came and dwelt in them."
~ 1 Samuel 31:4-7 (King James Version)

>>One says that God picked Saul to defeat the Philistines. The other says Saul died and the Philistines won.

"And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah."
~ 2 Samuel 24:1 (King James Version)

"And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel."
~ 1 Chronicles 21:1 (King James Version)

>> One says God inspired the census. The other says Satan inspired the census.

"And Joab gave up the sum of the number of the people unto the king: and there were in Israel eight hundred thousand valiant men that drew the sword; and the men of Judah were five hundred thousand men."
~ 2 Samuel 24:9 (King James Version)

"And Joab gave the sum of the number of the people unto David. And all they of Israel were a thousand thousand and an hundred thousand men that drew sword: and Judah was four hundred threescore and ten thousand men that drew sword."
~ 1 Chronicles 21:5 (King James Version)

>> One says the census numbered 800,000 for Israel and 500,000 for Judah. The other says the census numbered 1,100,00 for Israel and 470,000 for Judah.

"Two and twenty years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign; and he reigned one year in Jerusalem. And his mother's name was Athaliah, the daughter of Omri king of Israel."
~ 2 Kings 8:25-26 (King James Version)

"Forty and two years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign, and he reigned one year in Jerusalem. His mother's name also was Athaliah the daughter of Omri."
~ 2 Chronicles 22:2 (King James Version)

>> One says Ahaziah was 22 when he began his reign. The other says he was 42.

"And the sons of Pedaiah were, Zerubbabel, and Shimei: and the sons of Zerubbabel; Meshullam, and Hananiah, and Shelomith their sister"
~ 1 Chronicles 3:19 (King James Version)

"Then stood up Jeshua the son of Jozadak, and his brethren the priests, and Zerubbabel the son of Shealtiel, and his brethren, and builded the altar of the God of Israel, to offer burnt offerings thereon, as it is written in the law of Moses the man of God."
~ Ezra 3:2 (King James Version)

>> One says Pedaiah was the father of Zerubbabel. The other says his father was Shealtiel.

"And he built his sanctuary like high palaces, like the earth which he hath established for ever."
~ Psalm 78:69 (King James Version)

"Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away."
~ Matthew 24:35 (King James Version)

>> One says God made the Earth to last forever. In the other Jesus says it will pass away.

"Yet hear the word of the LORD, O Zedekiah king of Judah; Thus saith the LORD of thee, Thou shalt not die by the sword:
But thou shalt die in peace"
~ Jeremiah 34:4-5 (King James Version)

"And the king of Babylon slew the sons of Zedekiah before his eyes: he slew also all the princes of Judah in Riblah.
Then he put out the eyes of Zedekiah; and the king of Babylon bound him in chains, and carried him to Babylon, and put him in prison till the day of his death."
~ Jeremiah 52:10-11 (King James Version)

>> God says he will die in peace. Instead, his sons are slain before his eyes, his eyes are plucked out, he is bound and then taken to Babylon and left in prison to die.

"And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ."
~ Matthew 1:16 (King James Version)

"And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli"
~ Luke 3:23 (King James Version)

>> One says Jacob was the father of Joseph. The others says Heli was.

"And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."
~ Matthew 3:17 (King James Version)

"And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased."
~ Luke 3:22 (King James Version)

>> One says "this is", speaking to the crowd. The other says "thou art", speaking to Jesus.

"But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire."
~ Matthew 5:22 (King James Version)

"Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?"
~ Matthew 23:17-19 (King James Version)

>> Jesus says calling someone a fool is a sin. Jesus then calls someone a fool.

"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened."
~ Matthew 7:7-8 (King James Version)

"Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able."
~ Luke 13:24 (King James Version)

>> One says if they seek they will find. The other says many who seek to enter heaven will not be able.

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven."
~ Matthew 7:21 (King James Version)

"And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved."
~ Acts 2:21 (King James Version)

>> One says not everyone who calls on God will be saved. The other says they will.

"And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father."
~ Matthew 20:23 (King James Version)

"And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth."
~ Matthew 28:18 (King James Version)

>> Jesus says it is not his to give. Then he says all power has been given to him.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
annanicole
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2/9/2013 1:24:42 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/9/2013 1:13:31 AM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 2/9/2013 12:49:15 AM, annanicole wrote:
I would say "face to face" in v11 means "personally and directly" or "one-on-one" as opposed to communication via messengers such as angels, signs, visions, dreams, and the like. His communication with Moses was to be without mediation and personally as one would communicate by phone, for instance, today. The passage also implies that the communication between Moses and God would be two-way as opposed to a one-sided dialogue in which God simply issues directives to Moses.

But no one calls a phone conversation a "face to face" one.

Nope, but a phone conversation would be direct and personal as opposed to sending an email or passing a message through a mutual aquaintance. I was saying that "face-to-face" does not - and cannot - mean "literally staring each other in the eyes": it means direct, one-on-one conversation as opposed to God's other methods of communication (angels or messengers, signs and wonders, dreams and visions, or even through other human instruments). In that sense, a phone conversation would be immediate rather than mediate. Probably not the best example though - typed it too fast off the top of my head after reading the passage.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Angry_Bird
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2/9/2013 4:20:19 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/9/2013 12:30:08 AM, stubs wrote:
I myself do not believe this to be a contradiction based on studies I have done however I did want to get others opinions on the subject.

In Exodus 33:11 it says the Lord would speak to Moses face to face, as a man speaks with his friend.

Just a few verses later in verse 20 it says that you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live.

Again verse 23 reiterates the point saying my face must not be seen.

So did Moses and God speak face to face as it says in verse 11 or can no one see the face of the lord as it says in verse 20 and 23?

And yes the Hebrew word for face is the exact same. I knew someone would bring that up so I checked with a professor.

Would love to hear some input. Thanks.

Very good point !
If Jesus is the Great "I AM" then God spoke to Moses on the mount of transfiguration face to face, simples :)
Stephen_Hawkins
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2/9/2013 7:36:00 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
We basically have to decide that the Bible had a really bad choice of words at this moment to make it seem like a contradiction. Which implies more than an actual contradiction that God didn't write it.
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annanicole
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2/9/2013 12:28:45 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/9/2013 7:36:00 AM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
We basically have to decide that the Bible had a really bad choice of words at this moment to make it seem like a contradiction. Which implies more than an actual contradiction that God didn't write it.

No, we do not "have to decide" that. In the first place, the verses under consideration are a grand total of nine verses - eleven sentences in the KJV - apart. A blatant contradiction within that span? I think I'd look elsewhere. The passage (v. 11) says,

"And the Lord spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend."

The phrase or idiom "face to face" is explained immediately after the phrase: "as a man speaketh unto his friend." Such would imply a two-way conversation, for instance, and indeed such did occur. It would also imply a one-on-one basis as opposed to any second-hand or indirect methods. "Face to face" eliminates angels, visions, signs and wonders. Such did occur. God and Moses indeed had a one-on-one direct conversation. That's all it means.

Then someone drops down nine verses and exclaims, "Hot dayum, Bertha! I done found me a cunt-tra-dick-shun." (<-- I mean it to look that way) Man, I think I'd look elsewhere. Was "face-to-face" an ancient Hebrew idiom for direct conversation, rather than mediate contact? I do not know, but I'm sure it can be investigated.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Smithereens
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2/9/2013 11:08:43 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/9/2013 1:17:08 AM, FREEDO wrote:
Of all the potential contradictions, you pick that one?

I was reading through your list, and from what I can see, most of them have already been cleared, there are a few ones which I saw that I had never seen before, but my advice is that next time you want to present a contradiction, read more than one single translation of the bible, since some of those were picking on grammar, like the respect one, which is clearly not a contradiction when you read more than one translation of the bible.

Some bibles, like the KLV and the NKJV are translated to match sentences and words as well as possible. Others, like the NIV, take the idea expressed by the writer, and puts it into understandable english. Furthermore, you should study the original manuscripts it was translated of from the early church fathers to accurately understand what is being said.

Many people nowadays read a single translation and jump for joy when they think they have found a contradiction, the mere fact that people read the bible trying to look for a contradiction makes the majority of them completely silly contradictions, like a Matthew-Luke gospel account contradiction my friend used on me, where Jesus was preaching on a plain in one account but preaching on a mountain in the other account... Both were separate occasions in separate places.

In other instances, its unwarranted subconscious application of Western Culture to Eastern Culture. Many atheists claim that Jesus was rude and use as an example a time when he referred to his mother as 'woman.' In our culture, that is extremely rude, in their culture, its like saying 'madame.' A respectful term. The list of things people do wrong in order to make a contradiction are admirable.

If you do wish the bible to have a contradiction, I would ask you to be more open-minded and look for one yourself, instead of getting it off some age-debunked militant atheist website. If you think you have found one, you should investigate it yourself, instead of parading it around and looking silly. Not that you do that, I have just seen a lot of it around.

One final question, did you get these from skeptic's annotated bible?
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s-anthony
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2/10/2013 9:14:27 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/9/2013 11:08:43 PM, Smithereens wrote:
At 2/9/2013 1:17:08 AM, FREEDO wrote:
Of all the potential contradictions, you pick that one?

I was reading through your list, and from what I can see, most of them have already been cleared, there are a few ones which I saw that I had never seen before, but my advice is that next time you want to present a contradiction, read more than one single translation of the bible, since some of those were picking on grammar, like the respect one, which is clearly not a contradiction when you read more than one translation of the bible.

Some bibles, like the KLV and the NKJV are translated to match sentences and words as well as possible. Others, like the NIV, take the idea expressed by the writer, and puts it into understandable english. Furthermore, you should study the original manuscripts it was translated of from the early church fathers to accurately understand what is being said.

Many people nowadays read a single translation and jump for joy when they think they have found a contradiction, the mere fact that people read the bible trying to look for a contradiction makes the majority of them completely silly contradictions, like a Matthew-Luke gospel account contradiction my friend used on me, where Jesus was preaching on a plain in one account but preaching on a mountain in the other account... Both were separate occasions in separate places.

In other instances, its unwarranted subconscious application of Western Culture to Eastern Culture. Many atheists claim that Jesus was rude and use as an example a time when he referred to his mother as 'woman.' In our culture, that is extremely rude, in their culture, its like saying 'madame.' A respectful term. The list of things people do wrong in order to make a contradiction are admirable.

If you do wish the bible to have a contradiction, I would ask you to be more open-minded and look for one yourself, instead of getting it off some age-debunked militant atheist website. If you think you have found one, you should investigate it yourself, instead of parading it around and looking silly. Not that you do that, I have just seen a lot of it around.

One final question, did you get these from skeptic's annotated bible?

Instead of just telling us these are not contradictions, can you, please, tell us why they are not contradictions?
1Devilsadvocate
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2/11/2013 1:41:24 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/9/2013 12:30:08 AM, stubs wrote:
I myself do not believe this to be a contradiction based on studies I have done however I did want to get others opinions on the subject.

In Exodus 33:11 it says the Lord would speak to Moses face to face, as a man speaks with his friend.

Just a few verses later in verse 20 it says that you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live.

Again verse 23 reiterates the point saying my face must not be seen.

So did Moses and God speak face to face as it says in verse 11 or can no one see the face of the lord as it says in verse 20 and 23?

And yes the Hebrew word for face is the exact same. I knew someone would bring that up so I checked with a professor.

Would love to hear some input. Thanks.
(Good move by asking your professor.)
Without thinking into it too much, from a purely logical point of view it's not a contradiction. Face to face does not imply the ability to see the face of the person your talking to.

But if I have time, I'll give it some more thought, & maybe give a look at some old hebrew commentaries.
I cannot write in English, because of the treacherous spelling. When I am reading, I only hear it and am unable to remember what the written word looks like."
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Smithereens
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2/11/2013 1:41:56 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/10/2013 9:14:27 PM, s-anthony wrote:
At 2/9/2013 11:08:43 PM, Smithereens wrote:
At 2/9/2013 1:17:08 AM, FREEDO wrote:
Of all the potential contradictions, you pick that one?

I was reading through your list, and from what I can see, most of them have already been cleared, there are a few ones which I saw that I had never seen before, but my advice is that next time you want to present a contradiction, read more than one single translation of the bible, since some of those were picking on grammar, like the respect one, which is clearly not a contradiction when you read more than one translation of the bible.

Some bibles, like the KLV and the NKJV are translated to match sentences and words as well as possible. Others, like the NIV, take the idea expressed by the writer, and puts it into understandable english. Furthermore, you should study the original manuscripts it was translated of from the early church fathers to accurately understand what is being said.

Many people nowadays read a single translation and jump for joy when they think they have found a contradiction, the mere fact that people read the bible trying to look for a contradiction makes the majority of them completely silly contradictions, like a Matthew-Luke gospel account contradiction my friend used on me, where Jesus was preaching on a plain in one account but preaching on a mountain in the other account... Both were separate occasions in separate places.

In other instances, its unwarranted subconscious application of Western Culture to Eastern Culture. Many atheists claim that Jesus was rude and use as an example a time when he referred to his mother as 'woman.' In our culture, that is extremely rude, in their culture, its like saying 'madame.' A respectful term. The list of things people do wrong in order to make a contradiction are admirable.

If you do wish the bible to have a contradiction, I would ask you to be more open-minded and look for one yourself, instead of getting it off some age-debunked militant atheist website. If you think you have found one, you should investigate it yourself, instead of parading it around and looking silly. Not that you do that, I have just seen a lot of it around.

One final question, did you get these from skeptic's annotated bible?

Instead of just telling us these are not contradictions, can you, please, tell us why they are not contradictions?

I actually started that yesterday, but then I had a look at how far I had to go, I got discouraged and stopped after about 6 or 7, it takes 20 mins to research each one (as an average) to find its clearing since there are so many claims of contradictions, but why don't you pick your best, save my time.

I've seen many of the ones freedo posted, quite far from all of them, but nearly a majority, and I can clear some of them as I read them, others take considerable research because they are obscure, new, or unused by atheists.

My main issue with this is that since many of them have been known to be free of contradictions for many decades and even centuries, why are they still being used? why are they still going around? and why did freedo post them?

Keep in mind that I only speak of the ones I know about, the list which atheist draw up of supposed contradictions happens to be enormous, makes me think that they are looking for them, in which case anything passes off as a contradiction.

Ill select a couple from freedo at random and clear those, then I have school studies to do, maybe a little each night. But I lack motivation, so If I don't get through all of them, don't blame me for referring you to a website that clears them. :)
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Smithereens
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2/11/2013 2:01:54 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/9/2013 1:17:08 AM, FREEDO wrote:
Of all the potential contradictions, you pick that one?

"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."
~Genesis 2:17 (King James Version)

"And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died."
Genesis 5:5 (King James Version)

>>Either God lied or this is a contradiction. One says he would die that day. The other says he died much later.


God was talking about spiritual death, which happened the moment he ate it, this 'contradiction,' arises out of an uniformed viewpoint of Christianity. If God is talking about someone's eternal death, it would be natural to see a christian assume spiritual death and an atheist to expect a literal physical death.

: "And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering"
~Genesis 4:4 (King James Version)

"Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons"
~Acts 10:34 (King James Version)

>>One says God respected someone. The other says God respects no one.


This 'contradiction,' is actually someone reading one translation of the bible and applying the wrong context, look what happens with the verse when read from multiple translations, the meaning becomes apparent:
Acts 10:34 "Then Peter began to speak: "I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism." (New International Version) If you want to find a contradiction, you must use the original language it was written in, not going out and finding grammatical discrepancies between English translations. English bibles differ greatly, some being written to preserve the original words used, others (like the NIV) being written to convey the message in easily understandable English.

: "And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart."
~Genesis 6:6 (King James Version)

"And also the Strength of Israel will not lie nor repent: for he is not a man, that he should repent."
~1 Samuel 15:29 (King James Version)

>>One says God repented. The other says God never repents. Also, it says he never lies, which would make the first verse I posted have to be a contradiction.


Here the writer of Genesis, Moses, uses an analogy to compare the workings of the mind of God to so humans can understand, God is not a human, and thus will not experience the chemical neurotransmitions which we associate with repentence, this is more a matter of biology and neuropsychology, neither of which God is subject to, as the writer of Samuel points out. This answer to your 'contradiction,' is actually my own since I don't know the official one and cannot be bothered going out to find it/them.

: "And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female."
~Genesis 6:19 (King James Version)

"Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female."
~Genesis 7:2 (King James Version)

>>One says two animals every kind were put in the ark. The other says of some kinds there were seven taken.


In the earlier verse, God makes the general command to take 2 of every animal into the ark, then He says, take 7 of the clean animals, presumably to sacrifice. If you read the surrounding verses, its very hard to miss that its not a contradiction, its a specification, God says again to take 2 of every animal to the ark, however, note that He refers to them as the unclean animals, so all up, the command is that Noah must bring 2 of every unclean animal, and 7 of each clean animal.

Note that I make up these answers and that there are probably more professional and correct answers made by people with big brains etc, trust their word over mine.
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1Devilsadvocate
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2/11/2013 2:04:47 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/9/2013 6:43:03 AM, drafterman wrote:
Even metaphorically, God did not speak to Moses like a friend.

?
What is that supposed to mean?

& how the hell would you know this?
I cannot write in English, because of the treacherous spelling. When I am reading, I only hear it and am unable to remember what the written word looks like."
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s-anthony
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2/11/2013 7:34:05 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/11/2013 2:01:54 AM, Smithereens wrote:
At 2/9/2013 1:17:08 AM, FREEDO wrote:
Of all the potential contradictions, you pick that one?

"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."
~Genesis 2:17 (King James Version)

"And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died."
Genesis 5:5 (King James Version)

>>Either God lied or this is a contradiction. One says he would die that day. The other says he died much later.


God was talking about spiritual death, which happened the moment he ate it, this 'contradiction,' arises out of an uniformed viewpoint of Christianity. If God is talking about someone's eternal death, it would be natural to see a christian assume spiritual death and an atheist to expect a literal physical death.

Nowhere in Genesis does it say God was speaking of spiritual death; in fact, the serpent was more honest with Eve than God was, in saying "Ye shall not surely die: for God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil." Isn't that exactly what happened? Were not their eyes opened, knowing good and evil? How is becoming more like God and having your eyes opened spiritual death. I thought the Church and St. Paul taught being spiritually discerning, knowing good from evil, was being spiritually awake, not dead.



: "And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering"
~Genesis 4:4 (King James Version)

"Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons"
~Acts 10:34 (King James Version)

>>One says God respected someone. The other says God respects no one.


This 'contradiction,' is actually someone reading one translation of the bible and applying the wrong context, look what happens with the verse when read from multiple translations, the meaning becomes apparent:
Acts 10:34 "Then Peter began to speak: "I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism." (New International Version) If you want to find a contradiction, you must use the original language it was written in, not going out and finding grammatical discrepancies between English translations. English bibles differ greatly, some being written to preserve the original words used, others (like the NIV) being written to convey the message in easily understandable English.

There are passages in the Bible too numerous to list saying God's chosen ones are favored of the Lord. In fact, the writer of Romans says "(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) it was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated." If this is not a clear example of favoritism, I don't know what is. In fact, it goes to the very definition of "favoritism"; for, the passage clearly states God chose to love Jacob and hate Esau before they were even born and goes on to say "(...neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth...;)"

: "And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female."
~Genesis 6:19 (King James Version)

"Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female."
~Genesis 7:2 (King James Version)

>>One says two animals every kind were put in the ark. The other says of some kinds there were seven taken.


In the earlier verse, God makes the general command to take 2 of every animal into the ark, then He says, take 7 of the clean animals, presumably to sacrifice. If you read the surrounding verses, its very hard to miss that its not a contradiction, its a specification, God says again to take 2 of every animal to the ark, however, note that He refers to them as the unclean animals, so all up, the command is that Noah must bring 2 of every unclean animal, and 7 of each clean animal.

No. The passage reads "And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark...,"
Smithereens
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2/11/2013 11:32:50 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/11/2013 7:34:05 PM, s-anthony wrote:
At 2/11/2013 2:01:54 AM, Smithereens wrote:
At 2/9/2013 1:17:08 AM, FREEDO wrote:
Of all the potential contradictions, you pick that one?

"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."
~Genesis 2:17 (King James Version)

"And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died."
Genesis 5:5 (King James Version)

>>Either God lied or this is a contradiction. One says he would die that day. The other says he died much later.


God was talking about spiritual death, which happened the moment he ate it, this 'contradiction,' arises out of an uniformed viewpoint of Christianity. If God is talking about someone's eternal death, it would be natural to see a christian assume spiritual death and an atheist to expect a literal physical death.

Nowhere in Genesis does it say God was speaking of spiritual death; in fact, the serpent was more honest with Eve than God was, in saying "Ye shall not surely die: for God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil." Isn't that exactly what happened? Were not their eyes opened, knowing good and evil? How is becoming more like God and having your eyes opened spiritual death. I thought the Church and St. Paul taught being spiritually discerning, knowing good from evil, was being spiritually awake, not dead.

Nowhere in Genesis does it say he died a physical death, we know for fact however, that he died both. He began to die physically that day, and died spiritually immediately. The tree of knowledge of good and evil would give them their moral reasoning, but God would punish them for it by separating Himself from them, that's what Jesus died for to fix. Spiritual death is a major echo of every old testament story, many books point back to that one moment when Adam and Eve ate the fruit as an explanation of our enmity with God. Spiritual death is separation from God. In the book of Revelation, it talks about the second death, that is the final, absolute and eternal divide from God, and it is a spiritual death, seeing as a human cannot die twice physically.


: "And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering"
~Genesis 4:4 (King James Version)

"Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons"
~Acts 10:34 (King James Version)

>>One says God respected someone. The other says God respects no one.


This 'contradiction,' is actually someone reading one translation of the bible and applying the wrong context, look what happens with the verse when read from multiple translations, the meaning becomes apparent:
Acts 10:34 "Then Peter began to speak: "I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism." (New International Version) If you want to find a contradiction, you must use the original language it was written in, not going out and finding grammatical discrepancies between English translations. English bibles differ greatly, some being written to preserve the original words used, others (like the NIV) being written to convey the message in easily understandable English.

There are passages in the Bible too numerous to list saying God's chosen ones are favored of the Lord. In fact, the writer of Romans says "(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) it was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated." If this is not a clear example of favoritism, I don't know what is. In fact, it goes to the very definition of "favoritism"; for, the passage clearly states God chose to love Jacob and hate Esau before they were even born and goes on to say "(...neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth...;)"

Correct me If I am wrong but you imply that God loves Nobody?? He shows no favour to anyone. Jacob I have loved, and Esau I have hated. Here you take the meanings in a strange context to be able to make a contradiction, God says that He loves Jacob, no problems there, and hates Esau, seems you have a problem here. Hate in this context actually means rejected, and Esau is a nation, not a person. In Jewish culture, it was common for groups of people to bear the name of an ancestor, Israel for example, is the alternate name of Jacob. God said he had rejected Edom and thus, Israel would be the chosen people to be God's selected ones.

: "And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female."
~Genesis 6:19 (King James Version)

"Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female."
~Genesis 7:2 (King James Version)

>>One says two animals every kind were put in the ark. The other says of some kinds there were seven taken.


In the earlier verse, God makes the general command to take 2 of every animal into the ark, then He says, take 7 of the clean animals, presumably to sacrifice. If you read the surrounding verses, its very hard to miss that its not a contradiction, its a specification, God says again to take 2 of every animal to the ark, however, note that He refers to them as the unclean animals, so all up, the command is that Noah must bring 2 of every unclean animal, and 7 of each clean animal.

No. The passage reads "And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark...,"

No contradiction, if 7 of some are taken, and 2 of all are taken, there is no contradiction. For there to have been, there would have to be an animal that was not taken in.

Don't pick on one English translation please.
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annanicole
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2/11/2013 11:57:35 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
"Correct me If I am wrong but you imply that God loves Nobody?? He shows no favour to anyone. Jacob I have loved, and Esau I have hated. Here you take the meanings in a strange context to be able to make a contradiction, God says that He loves Jacob, no problems there, and hates Esau, seems you have a problem here. Hate in this context actually means rejected, and Esau is a nation, not a person. In Jewish culture, it was common for groups of people to bear the name of an ancestor, Israel for example, is the alternate name of Jacob. God said he had rejected Edom and thus, Israel would be the chosen people to be God's selected ones."

Absolutely correct. The passage was written years and years after the births of Jacob and Esau - and has no reference to either of them as individuals. The reference is to their progeny, their nations.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
s-anthony
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2/12/2013 8:47:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/11/2013 11:32:50 PM, Smithereens wrote:
Nowhere in Genesis does it say he died a physical death, we know for fact however, that he died both.

"And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died." - Genesis 5:5

There are passages in the Bible too numerous to list saying God's chosen ones are favored of the Lord. In fact, the writer of Romans says "(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) it was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated." If this is not a clear example of favoritism, I don't know what is. In fact, it goes to the very definition of "favoritism"; for, the passage clearly states God chose to love Jacob and hate Esau before they were even born and goes on to say "(...neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth...;)"

Correct me If I am wrong but you imply that God loves Nobody?? He shows no favour to anyone. Jacob I have loved, and Esau I have hated. Here you take the meanings in a strange context to be able to make a contradiction, God says that He loves Jacob, no problems there, and hates Esau, seems you have a problem here. Hate in this context actually means rejected, and Esau is a nation, not a person. In Jewish culture, it was common for groups of people to bear the name of an ancestor, Israel for example, is the alternate name of Jacob. God said he had rejected Edom and thus, Israel would be the chosen people to be God's selected ones.

So, it's better for God to hate an entire nation of people than for God to hate an individual? If I hate you that's horrible, but if I hate your entire family that makes it alright? How can hate multiplied be less evil than hate for only one?
annanicole
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2/12/2013 8:53:37 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/12/2013 8:47:38 PM, s-anthony wrote:
At 2/11/2013 11:32:50 PM, Smithereens wrote:
Nowhere in Genesis does it say he died a physical death, we know for fact however, that he died both.

"And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died." - Genesis 5:5

There are passages in the Bible too numerous to list saying God's chosen ones are favored of the Lord. In fact, the writer of Romans says "(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) it was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated." If this is not a clear example of favoritism, I don't know what is. In fact, it goes to the very definition of "favoritism"; for, the passage clearly states God chose to love Jacob and hate Esau before they were even born and goes on to say "(...neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth...;)"

Correct me If I am wrong but you imply that God loves Nobody?? He shows no favour to anyone. Jacob I have loved, and Esau I have hated. Here you take the meanings in a strange context to be able to make a contradiction, God says that He loves Jacob, no problems there, and hates Esau, seems you have a problem here. Hate in this context actually means rejected, and Esau is a nation, not a person. In Jewish culture, it was common for groups of people to bear the name of an ancestor, Israel for example, is the alternate name of Jacob. God said he had rejected Edom and thus, Israel would be the chosen people to be God's selected ones.

So, it's better for God to hate an entire nation of people than for God to hate an individual? If I hate you that's horrible, but if I hate your entire family that makes it alright? How can hate multiplied be less evil than hate for only one?

Nobody is saying that. People (certain Calvinists) are saying that God hated Esau before he was born - for no reason, as in "Jacob have I favored, but Esau I have rejected, before they were born." The passage, of course, has no reference to Jacob and Esau as individuals (as Smithereens wrote) and no reference to love and hate as emotions: it's Jacob and Esau as nations, and favored and rejected as nations and due to the choices of those nations.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Smithereens
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2/13/2013 1:49:41 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/12/2013 8:47:38 PM, s-anthony wrote:
At 2/11/2013 11:32:50 PM, Smithereens wrote:
Nowhere in Genesis does it say he died a physical death, we know for fact however, that he died both.

"And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died." - Genesis 5:5

There are passages in the Bible too numerous to list saying God's chosen ones are favored of the Lord. In fact, the writer of Romans says "(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) it was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated." If this is not a clear example of favoritism, I don't know what is. In fact, it goes to the very definition of "favoritism"; for, the passage clearly states God chose to love Jacob and hate Esau before they were even born and goes on to say "(...neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth...;)"

Correct me If I am wrong but you imply that God loves Nobody?? He shows no favour to anyone. Jacob I have loved, and Esau I have hated. Here you take the meanings in a strange context to be able to make a contradiction, God says that He loves Jacob, no problems there, and hates Esau, seems you have a problem here. Hate in this context actually means rejected, and Esau is a nation, not a person. In Jewish culture, it was common for groups of people to bear the name of an ancestor, Israel for example, is the alternate name of Jacob. God said he had rejected Edom and thus, Israel would be the chosen people to be God's selected ones.

So, it's better for God to hate an entire nation of people than for God to hate an individual? If I hate you that's horrible, but if I hate your entire family that makes it alright? How can hate multiplied be less evil than hate for only one?

Again, refer to the Aramaic scripture for a more comprehensive and enlightening translation of the Genesis scripture, but I will argue that it makes as much sense in English as it does any other language, due to the context in which the passage referred to the days of Adams life, then announcing his death, the passage makes it crystal clear that this was a physical death, we know for certain God was threatening Adam with Spiritual death as I addressed in the last post.

The verse that says God hated Esau in its original Greek is &#7952;&#956;&#943;&#963;&#951;&#963;&#945; which is em&#943;sisa (I dont know if the word will come out in greek or in meaningless symbols, sorry) which in English would be our equivalent of 'hated unto,' or given dislike to. In the Greek language, the word instead of meaning hated, in context means rejected, or shunned. This fits with the fact that God had chosen Israel instead of Esau (Edom) and would use the Israelite's to accomplish his plans further along.
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s-anthony
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2/13/2013 7:11:44 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/13/2013 1:49:41 AM, Smithereens wrote:
At 2/12/2013 8:47:38 PM, s-anthony wrote:
So, it's better for God to hate an entire nation of people than for God to hate an individual? If I hate you that's horrible, but if I hate your entire family that makes it alright? How can hate multiplied be less evil than hate for only one?

The verse that says God hated Esau in its original Greek is &#7952;&#956;&#943;&#963;&#951;&#963;&#945; which is em&#943;sisa (I dont know if the word will come out in greek or in meaningless symbols, sorry) which in English would be our equivalent of 'hated unto,' or given dislike to. In the Greek language, the word instead of meaning hated, in context means rejected, or shunned. This fits with the fact that God had chosen Israel instead of Esau (Edom) and would use the Israelite's to accomplish his plans further along.

According to Strong's Concordance the word hate in this passage means:

1) to hate, pursue with hatred, detest

2) to be hated, detested

The word detest is not merely hate, but intensified hatred; it means to loathe something or someone.
johnlubba
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2/17/2013 5:56:23 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/9/2013 1:17:08 AM, FREEDO wrote:
Of all the potential contradictions, you pick that one?

"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."
~Genesis 2:17 (King James Version)

"And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died."
Genesis 5:5 (King James Version)

>>Either God lied or this is a contradiction. One says he would die that day. The other says he died much later.

"And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering"
~Genesis 4:4 (King James Version)

"Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons"
~Acts 10:34 (King James Version)

>>One says God respected someone. The other says God respects no one.

"And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart."
~Genesis 6:6 (King James Version)

"And also the Strength of Israel will not lie nor repent: for he is not a man, that he should repent."
~1 Samuel 15:29 (King James Version)

>>One says God repented. The other says God never repents. Also, it says he never lies, which would make the first verse I posted have to be a contradiction.

"And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female."
~Genesis 6:19 (King James Version)

"Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female."
~Genesis 7:2 (King James Version)

>>One says two animals every kind were put in the ark. The other says of some kinds there were seven taken.

"By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations."
Genesis 10:5 (King James Version)

"And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech."
Genesis 11:1 (King James Version)
(note:both took place before the Tower of Babel.)

>>One describes there being multiple languages before the Tower of Babel, the other says there was only one.

"And he said unto him, Take me an heifer of three years old, and a she goat of three years old, and a ram of three years old, and a turtledove, and a young pigeon."
~Genesis 15:9 (King James Version)

"For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices"
~Jeremiah 7:22 (King James Version)

>>One describes God commanding a sacrifice. The other describes God later saying he never commanding any offerings.

"For with God nothing shall be impossible."
~Luke 1:37 (King James Version)

"And the LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron."
~Judges 1:19 (King James Version)

>>Lol, that may be one of the most hilarious verses I've seen. Apparently God is all-powerful except when it comes to iron chariots.

"And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am."
~Genesis 22:1 (King James Version)

"Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man"
~James 1:13 (King James Version)

>>One says God tempted someone. The other says God tempts no one.

"For his sons carried him[Jacob] into the land of Canaan, and buried him in the cave of the field of Machpelah, which Abraham bought with the field for a possession of a buryingplace of Ephron the Hittite, before Mamre."
~Genesis 50:13 (King James Version)

"So Jacob went down into Egypt, and died, he, and our fathers,
And were carried over into Sychem, and laid in the sepulchre that Abraham bought for a sum of money of the sons of Emmor the father of Sychem."
~Acts 7:15-16 (King James Version)

>>These verses describe Jacob being buried in two different locations.

"The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name."
~Exodus 15:3 (King James Version)

"Now the God of peace be with you all. Amen."
~Romans 15:33 (King James Version)

>>One says God is a man of war. The other says he is the God of peace.

"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth."
~Exodus 20:4 (King James Version)

"And thou shalt make two cherubims[angels] of gold, of beaten work shalt thou make them, in the two ends of the mercy seat."
~Exodus 25:18 (King James Version)

>>One of God's ten commandments is to not make any graven image or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven yet commands they do so only five chapters later.

"Thou shalt not kill."
~Exodus 20:13 (King James Version)

"And he said unto them, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbor."
~Exodus 32:27 (King James Version)

>>One of God's commandments is not to kill yet commands them to do so only 12 chapters later.

"And the priest shall make an atonement for the soul that sinneth ignorantly, when he sinneth by ignorance before the LORD, to make an atonement for him; and it shall be forgiven him."
~Numbers 15:28 (King James Version)

"And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins."
~Hebrews 10:11 (King James Version)

>>One says offerings forgive sins. The other says they don't.

"And Aaron the priest went up into mount Hor at the commandment of the LORD, and died there, in the fortieth year after the children of Israel were come out of the land of Egypt, in the first day of the fifth month."
~Numbers 33:38 (King James Version)

"And the children of Israel took their journey from Beeroth of the children of Jaakan to Mosera: there Aaron died, and there he was buried; and Eleazar his son ministered in the priest's office in his stead."
~Deuteronomy 10:6 (King James Version)

>>These verse describe Aaron dieing in two different places.

"When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house.
And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man's wife."
~Deuteronomy 24:1-2 (King James Version)

"And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her.
And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery."
~Mark 10:11 (King James Version)

>>One says that a man can divorce his wife simply because he doesn't like her anymore and they can remarry, yet the other says it's a sin to remarry.

I see it, I see it..............

Shame over a billion others don't tho. :(((((
drafterman
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2/17/2013 7:20:40 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/11/2013 2:04:47 AM, 1Devilsadvocate wrote:
At 2/9/2013 6:43:03 AM, drafterman wrote:
Even metaphorically, God did not speak to Moses like a friend.

?
What is that supposed to mean?


It means there was nothing friendly about it.

& how the hell would you know this?

Just going on what the Good Book said.