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Can Bhuddism be considered a religion.

suttichart.denpruektham
Posts: 1,115
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2/15/2013 10:24:01 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
According to classic Buddhism principle: the believers are suppose to focus on attaining enlightenment (the clean state of mind, free from sorrowful negative thought). Even though it does not deny the existence of god or deities, it is of little if not at all concern. You are going to the state of nothingness any way, why care about gods or your next life.

If this is the case, I don't think it is quite fitting to the concept of religion which is the worship of supreme being or object.

Of course, I didn't talk about Chinese-Japanese Buddhism which is more deity-center.
Ramshutu
Posts: 4,063
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2/15/2013 10:30:46 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/15/2013 10:24:01 AM, suttichart.denpruektham wrote:
According to classic Buddhism principle: the believers are suppose to focus on attaining enlightenment (the clean state of mind, free from sorrowful negative thought). Even though it does not deny the existence of god or deities, it is of little if not at all concern. You are going to the state of nothingness any way, why care about gods or your next life.

If this is the case, I don't think it is quite fitting to the concept of religion which is the worship of supreme being or object.

Of course, I didn't talk about Chinese-Japanese Buddhism which is more deity-center.

It doesn't laud ignorance, or promote self delusion. So no, not a religion.
slo1
Posts: 4,316
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2/15/2013 1:33:45 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/15/2013 10:30:46 AM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 2/15/2013 10:24:01 AM, suttichart.denpruektham wrote:
According to classic Buddhism principle: the believers are suppose to focus on attaining enlightenment (the clean state of mind, free from sorrowful negative thought). Even though it does not deny the existence of god or deities, it is of little if not at all concern. You are going to the state of nothingness any way, why care about gods or your next life.

If this is the case, I don't think it is quite fitting to the concept of religion which is the worship of supreme being or object.

Of course, I didn't talk about Chinese-Japanese Buddhism which is more deity-center.

It doesn't laud ignorance, or promote self delusion. So no, not a religion.

At the heart of it doesn't, but there is some whacky stuff going on like any belief system that people swallow hook line and sinker with out question.

Strip it from all the fairy dust and it is some good basic (but hard to do) advise on how to view the world, live a quality life, and do go by others.

I would say, with the fairy dust and superstition it is a religion. Strip out the fairy dust, it isn't, but I could say that about any religion.
wiploc
Posts: 1,485
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2/15/2013 2:01:28 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/15/2013 10:24:01 AM, suttichart.denpruektham wrote:
Can Bhuddism be considered a religion.

It is considered a religion.

According to classic Buddhism principle: the believers are suppose to focus on attaining enlightenment (the clean state of mind, free from sorrowful negative thought). Even though it does not deny the existence of god or deities, it is of little if not at all concern. You are going to the state of nothingness any way, why care about gods or your next life.

If this is the case, I don't think it is quite fitting to the concept of religion which is the worship of supreme being or object.

If you're a Christian, or from a culture dominated by Christians, you may think religions just have do with worshiping gods. But that's just you, just your cultural bias.

Think of all the times you've heard people say that atheism is a religion. That's not a true claim, but neither is it incoherent.

Or think of all the Reformed Jews who are atheists. They may be just as religious as the theistic Jews, but they aren't worshiping gods.
GarretKadeDupre
Posts: 2,023
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2/15/2013 2:26:50 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
It comes down to what definition of religion you are using.

Legally, in the U.S., religion is the worship of God. Thus, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are religions, but Wicca, Atheism, and Buddhism aren't.
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Kinesis
Posts: 3,667
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2/15/2013 2:47:25 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/15/2013 2:26:50 PM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
It comes down to what definition of religion you are using.

Legally, in the U.S., religion is the worship of God. Thus, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are religions, but Wicca, Atheism, and Buddhism aren't.

There is no legal consensus on the definition of religion in the US. There are legal cases, for example, which have been decided in favour of Buddhists where they have used the first amendment as a defense.

The term 'religion' refers, like most categories, to a cluster of overlapping characteristics. Things aren't either religion or not religion. Things are less or more typical examples of religion, and if you go far enough away from the centre you get to borderline cases.
GarretKadeDupre
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2/15/2013 6:41:40 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/15/2013 2:47:25 PM, Kinesis wrote:
At 2/15/2013 2:26:50 PM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
It comes down to what definition of religion you are using.

Legally, in the U.S., religion is the worship of God. Thus, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are religions, but Wicca, Atheism, and Buddhism aren't.

There is no legal consensus on the definition of religion in the US. There are legal cases, for example, which have been decided in favour of Buddhists where they have used the first amendment as a defense.

The term 'religion' refers, like most categories, to a cluster of overlapping characteristics. Things aren't either religion or not religion. Things are less or more typical examples of religion, and if you go far enough away from the centre you get to borderline cases.

Legal consensus? Maybe not. But according to the understanding of what 'religion' meant by those who wrote the Constitution, I'm pretty sure that religion is the way you worship God.
Proof that people witnessed living dinosaurs:
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suttichart.denpruektham
Posts: 1,115
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2/16/2013 1:17:53 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/15/2013 6:41:40 PM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
At 2/15/2013 2:47:25 PM, Kinesis wrote:
At 2/15/2013 2:26:50 PM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
It comes down to what definition of religion you are using.

Legally, in the U.S., religion is the worship of God. Thus, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are religions, but Wicca, Atheism, and Buddhism aren't.

There is no legal consensus on the definition of religion in the US. There are legal cases, for example, which have been decided in favour of Buddhists where they have used the first amendment as a defense.

The term 'religion' refers, like most categories, to a cluster of overlapping characteristics. Things aren't either religion or not religion. Things are less or more typical examples of religion, and if you go far enough away from the centre you get to borderline cases.

Legal consensus? Maybe not. But according to the understanding of what 'religion' meant by those who wrote the Constitution, I'm pretty sure that religion is the way you worship God.

I think it is quite necessary to defined the religion of a worship of god or being beyond material realm. If not the concept itself will be too broad, political belief, scientific theory, philosophic principle any thing can be a religion.

Legal or not it is just impractical to define religion as anything beyond the worship of deity (don't know if the Wicca can escape that definition, I think they worship a lot of spirit of nature)
DakotaKrafick
Posts: 1,517
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2/16/2013 1:27:17 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/15/2013 10:24:01 AM, suttichart.denpruektham wrote:
According to classic Buddhism principle: the believers are suppose to focus on attaining enlightenment (the clean state of mind, free from sorrowful negative thought). Even though it does not deny the existence of god or deities, it is of little if not at all concern. You are going to the state of nothingness any way, why care about gods or your next life.

If this is the case, I don't think it is quite fitting to the concept of religion which is the worship of supreme being or object.

Of course, I didn't talk about Chinese-Japanese Buddhism which is more deity-center.

Buddhism is a religion, yes. Religions do not necessarily have to posit the existence of any deity, nor do people who believe in the existence of a deity necessarily have to have a religion.
suttichart.denpruektham
Posts: 1,115
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2/16/2013 4:13:56 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/16/2013 1:27:17 AM, DakotaKrafick wrote:
At 2/15/2013 10:24:01 AM, suttichart.denpruektham wrote:
According to classic Buddhism principle: the believers are suppose to focus on attaining enlightenment (the clean state of mind, free from sorrowful negative thought). Even though it does not deny the existence of god or deities, it is of little if not at all concern. You are going to the state of nothingness any way, why care about gods or your next life.

If this is the case, I don't think it is quite fitting to the concept of religion which is the worship of supreme being or object.

Of course, I didn't talk about Chinese-Japanese Buddhism which is more deity-center.

Buddhism is a religion, yes. Religions do not necessarily have to posit the existence of any deity, nor do people who believe in the existence of a deity necessarily have to have a religion.

? then what is religion?
GarretKadeDupre
Posts: 2,023
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2/16/2013 12:17:59 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/16/2013 4:13:56 AM, suttichart.denpruektham wrote:
At 2/16/2013 1:27:17 AM, DakotaKrafick wrote:
At 2/15/2013 10:24:01 AM, suttichart.denpruektham wrote:
According to classic Buddhism principle: the believers are suppose to focus on attaining enlightenment (the clean state of mind, free from sorrowful negative thought). Even though it does not deny the existence of god or deities, it is of little if not at all concern. You are going to the state of nothingness any way, why care about gods or your next life.

If this is the case, I don't think it is quite fitting to the concept of religion which is the worship of supreme being or object.

Of course, I didn't talk about Chinese-Japanese Buddhism which is more deity-center.

Buddhism is a religion, yes. Religions do not necessarily have to posit the existence of any deity, nor do people who believe in the existence of a deity necessarily have to have a religion.

? then what is religion?

I already said, religion is the way a person worships God.
Proof that people witnessed living dinosaurs:
http://www.debate.org...
wiploc
Posts: 1,485
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2/16/2013 12:21:25 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/16/2013 12:17:59 PM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
religion is the way a person worships God.

So when Christians claim that atheism is a religion, they're just lying?
wiploc
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2/16/2013 12:22:07 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/15/2013 2:26:50 PM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
Legally, in the U.S., religion is the worship of God. Thus, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are religions, but Wicca, Atheism, and Buddhism aren't.

Color me skeptical.
Stephen_Hawkins
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2/16/2013 12:22:36 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/16/2013 12:21:25 PM, wiploc wrote:
At 2/16/2013 12:17:59 PM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
religion is the way a person worships God.

So when Christians claim that atheism is a religion, they're just lying?

Not lying: wrong.
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

Social Contract Theory debate: http://www.debate.org...
GarretKadeDupre
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2/16/2013 12:28:26 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/16/2013 12:22:36 PM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
At 2/16/2013 12:21:25 PM, wiploc wrote:
At 2/16/2013 12:17:59 PM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
religion is the way a person worships God.

So when Christians claim that atheism is a religion, they're just lying?

Not lying: wrong.

Exactly.
Proof that people witnessed living dinosaurs:
http://www.debate.org...
vbaculum
Posts: 1,274
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2/16/2013 12:30:19 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/15/2013 10:24:01 AM, suttichart.denpruektham wrote:
According to classic Buddhism principle: the believers are suppose to focus on attaining enlightenment (the clean state of mind, free from sorrowful negative thought). Even though it does not deny the existence of god or deities, it is of little if not at all concern. You are going to the state of nothingness any way, why care about gods or your next life.

If this is the case, I don't think it is quite fitting to the concept of religion which is the worship of supreme being or object.

Of course, I didn't talk about Chinese-Japanese Buddhism which is more deity-center.

A set of beliefs is considered a religion if a society has successfully made it a serious problem for anyone to reject those beliefs, and the beliefs are without evidence. So, to the extent that Buddhism has accomplished that, it is a religion.

An object of worship seem optional to me. That an object ought to be worshipped is just one of many groundless, compulsory belief in most religious schemes.
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wiploc
Posts: 1,485
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2/16/2013 1:35:44 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/16/2013 12:22:36 PM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
At 2/16/2013 12:21:25 PM, wiploc wrote:
At 2/16/2013 12:17:59 PM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
religion is the way a person worships God.

So when Christians claim that atheism is a religion, they're just lying?

Not lying: wrong.

I agree that they are wrong, and that some of them are are just wrong, as opposed to lying.
DeFool
Posts: 626
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2/16/2013 8:45:30 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
As a former resident of China, I have had the occasion to witness Buddhism very closely. I can say very definitively that it both is, and is not, a religion. I am only nearly joking.

Buddhism is much more complex an idea than what Westerners are comfortable with in their bowl of religion. I am certain that denying it's status as a "religion" would offend many Buddhists. This, even though they often treat the philosophy with religious reverence and awe.

Part of this, in my view, comes from Confucianism, which demands the adherence to tradition in the most religious possible way.
DeFool
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2/16/2013 8:52:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I should point out that Confucianism is not a part of the Indian Buddhist philosophy. Also that my hatred of religion for some reason does not extend quite to Buddhism and Taoism (very nearly a form of Chinese Buddhism). I am not certain why this is. I hate Buddha, but frequently admire the ideas attributed to him. I resolutely love Lao Tzu (the founder of Taoism), and the ideas that make up his worldview.

As an rationalist, I cannot bring myself to admit that these spiritual philosophies are in the same category of thing that "religion" is. Here is a compromise: Buddhism and Taoism have "denominations" that attract followers who regard them as religions, and denominations that do not.
suttichart.denpruektham
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2/17/2013 1:46:03 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/16/2013 12:30:19 PM, vbaculum wrote:
At 2/15/2013 10:24:01 AM, suttichart.denpruektham wrote:
According to classic Buddhism principle: the believers are suppose to focus on attaining enlightenment (the clean state of mind, free from sorrowful negative thought). Even though it does not deny the existence of god or deities, it is of little if not at all concern. You are going to the state of nothingness any way, why care about gods or your next life.

If this is the case, I don't think it is quite fitting to the concept of religion which is the worship of supreme being or object.

Of course, I didn't talk about Chinese-Japanese Buddhism which is more deity-center.

A set of beliefs is considered a religion if a society has successfully made it a serious problem for anyone to reject those beliefs, and the beliefs are without evidence. So, to the extent that Buddhism has accomplished that, it is a religion.

An object of worship seem optional to me. That an object ought to be worshipped is just one of many groundless, compulsory belief in most religious schemes.

I am not quite understand that why it has to be a point rejected by society. In fact, if your point is that belief without evidence + society rejection = religion, that oul make many of the erotic novel writer or snuff film maker a prophet. They make story without evidence, many believed, society rejected.