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God and Control

Illegalcombatant
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2/23/2013 3:38:49 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I was thinking, if you want people to act a certain way how would you do it ?

Well you could try brute force and hold a gun to their head, trouble is once the gun is taken away the control factor goes way down.

You could try reason and evidence, trouble is people can dispute the evidence and question your reasoning.

But what if you could convince them their is a being, a supernatural being, who wants THEM to do and not do certain things. And of course this being is going to be most dis-pleased if you don't do these things, say never ending torture is your fate.

But there is a slight problem, since your just talking sh*t, this being its self isn't going to actually say anything and tell people to do anything. But what if we could convince people that this being has spoken to other people, given them communication, and of course we must obey this communication.

Of course there are other manipulative tactics one good use to get people to believe and stay believers. (Maybe a something for another thread)

Now some people are going to question the central premise here about whether there really is such a being, and even if it did, what it did or did not say, pointing our discrepancies in the reasoning and claims of the "religion", well we can kill them and pre-empt their objections by demonizing them as "evil", and of course the believers as lovers of truth and goodness.

So yeah......

Step 1 God exists
Step 2 Here is what God wants you too do (On punishment of hell fire if you don't)
Step 3 You now own their a$$

You may not like it, but you can't question its effectiveness, there is a reason religion ain't going anywhere fast, there is too much at stake, too much too lose.
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
Pennington
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2/23/2013 3:47:52 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
All incorrect. God simply wants you to recognize Him, love Him and seek His salvation. Committing sins and wrongs is something we all will do both saved and unsaved alike. Though ones who recognize God and sought His salvation tend to behave as He wants.
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Illegalcombatant
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2/23/2013 3:55:06 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/23/2013 3:47:52 AM, Pennington wrote:
All incorrect. God simply wants you to recognize Him, love Him and seek His salvation. Committing sins and wrongs is something we all will do both saved and unsaved alike. Though ones who recognize God and sought His salvation tend to behave as He wants.

Thanks for adding support to my point.

1) Sin = The stuff you say God doesn't want them to do
2) Salvation = The stuff you say that God wants them to do
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
Pennington
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2/23/2013 3:59:07 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/23/2013 3:55:06 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
Thanks for adding support to my point.:
Can't see how my comment supports you. Please explain further.

1) Sin = The stuff you say God doesn't want them to do:
We can not stop from sinning, no one.
2) Salvation = The stuff you say that God wants them to do:
Sure God wants you to find salvation through Him but you should want salvetion for yourself.
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Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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2/23/2013 4:01:25 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/23/2013 3:59:07 AM, Pennington wrote:
At 2/23/2013 3:55:06 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
Thanks for adding support to my point.:
Can't see how my comment supports you. Please explain further.

1) Sin = The stuff you say God doesn't want them to do:
We can not stop from sinning, no one.
2) Salvation = The stuff you say that God wants them to do:
Sure God wants you to find salvation through Him but you should want salvetion for yourself.

And this "sin" that you speak off, you know the stuff you shouldn't be doing, who told you that ?
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
Pennington
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2/23/2013 4:05:44 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/23/2013 4:01:25 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
And this "sin" that you speak off, you know the stuff you shouldn't be doing, who told you that ?:
No one told me! I read my Bible and learn from that but mostly I have sense of what is right and wrong. I think right and wrong differs from person to person. There is no absolute there.
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Illegalcombatant
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2/23/2013 4:10:47 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/23/2013 4:05:44 AM, Pennington wrote:
At 2/23/2013 4:01:25 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
And this "sin" that you speak off, you know the stuff you shouldn't be doing, who told you that ?:
No one told me! I read my Bible and learn from that but mostly I have sense of what is right and wrong. I think right and wrong differs from person to person. There is no absolute there.

So you read the bible, something that was written by men, claiming they have received communction from God, and more specifically even things that should not be done, as told by God of course.

Now wasn't my original post about how one would go about getting people to believe in a God who wants certain things ?
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
Pennington
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2/23/2013 4:14:28 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/23/2013 4:10:47 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
So you read the bible, something that was written by men, claiming they have received communction from God, and more specifically even things that should not be done, as told by God of course.:

Now wasn't my original post about how one would go about getting people to believe in a God who wants certain things ?:
I did not disagree with that point. My disagreement was the things that you claimed God wanted. You add too much into it when God simply wants you to know Him.
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Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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2/23/2013 4:16:44 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/23/2013 4:14:28 AM, Pennington wrote:
At 2/23/2013 4:10:47 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
So you read the bible, something that was written by men, claiming they have received communction from God, and more specifically even things that should not be done, as told by God of course.:

Now wasn't my original post about how one would go about getting people to believe in a God who wants certain things ?:
I did not disagree with that point. My disagreement was the things that you claimed God wanted. You add too much into it when God simply wants you to know Him.

I think you mis-understood.

Oh and thanks for telling me what God wants, because ya know, my post is just about that very subject.
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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2/23/2013 6:04:30 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/23/2013 3:55:06 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 2/23/2013 3:47:52 AM, Pennington wrote:
All incorrect. God simply wants you to recognize Him, love Him and seek His salvation. Committing sins and wrongs is something we all will do both saved and unsaved alike. Though ones who recognize God and sought His salvation tend to behave as He wants.

Thanks for adding support to my point.

1) Sin = The stuff you say God doesn't want them to do
2) Salvation = The stuff you say that God wants them to do

He walked right into that one lol All you will experience are humans talking for this hypothetical being, not the being itself. His post just proved that.
Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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2/24/2013 5:14:23 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/23/2013 6:04:30 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 2/23/2013 3:55:06 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 2/23/2013 3:47:52 AM, Pennington wrote:
All incorrect. God simply wants you to recognize Him, love Him and seek His salvation. Committing sins and wrongs is something we all will do both saved and unsaved alike. Though ones who recognize God and sought His salvation tend to behave as He wants.

Thanks for adding support to my point.

1) Sin = The stuff you say God doesn't want them to do
2) Salvation = The stuff you say that God wants them to do

He walked right into that one lol All you will experience are humans talking for this hypothetical being, not the being itself. His post just proved that.

Hey how do you know God doesn't talk to me ? who can't prove that he doesn't.

Boy is he angry with YOU !!!
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
muzebreak
Posts: 2,781
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2/24/2013 5:18:13 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/24/2013 5:14:23 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 2/23/2013 6:04:30 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 2/23/2013 3:55:06 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 2/23/2013 3:47:52 AM, Pennington wrote:
All incorrect. God simply wants you to recognize Him, love Him and seek His salvation. Committing sins and wrongs is something we all will do both saved and unsaved alike. Though ones who recognize God and sought His salvation tend to behave as He wants.

Thanks for adding support to my point.

1) Sin = The stuff you say God doesn't want them to do
2) Salvation = The stuff you say that God wants them to do

He walked right into that one lol All you will experience are humans talking for this hypothetical being, not the being itself. His post just proved that.

Hey how do you know God doesn't talk to me ? who can't prove that he doesn't.

Boy is he angry with YOU !!!

Can you ask god to give me a cookie?
"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.
Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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2/24/2013 5:26:52 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/24/2013 5:18:13 AM, muzebreak wrote:
At 2/24/2013 5:14:23 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 2/23/2013 6:04:30 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 2/23/2013 3:55:06 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 2/23/2013 3:47:52 AM, Pennington wrote:
All incorrect. God simply wants you to recognize Him, love Him and seek His salvation. Committing sins and wrongs is something we all will do both saved and unsaved alike. Though ones who recognize God and sought His salvation tend to behave as He wants.

Thanks for adding support to my point.

1) Sin = The stuff you say God doesn't want them to do
2) Salvation = The stuff you say that God wants them to do

He walked right into that one lol All you will experience are humans talking for this hypothetical being, not the being itself. His post just proved that.

Hey how do you know God doesn't talk to me ? who can't prove that he doesn't.

Boy is he angry with YOU !!!


Can you ask god to give me a cookie?

Cookies are for winners, so no.
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
ethang5
Posts: 4,115
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12/11/2013 12:12:20 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/23/2013 6:04:30 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:

He walked right into that one lol All you will experience are humans talking for this hypothetical being, not the being itself. His post just proved that.

His single post proved that "All you will experience are humans talking for this hypothetical being," ?

Wow, you have a startlingly low standard of proof. Can't you see that once you start of with an absolute as your truth, everything after simply conforms? Observe,

Every black man is unintelligent.
Thomas Sowell is a black man
Thomas Sowell is unintelligent

That is not the path to truth or knowledge. That is simply a way to make yourself seem right every time.

Thomas Sowell is an American economist, social theorist, political philosopher, and author. He is currently Senior Fellow at the Hoover Institution, Stanford University.
Intellect is not wisdom. - Thomas Sowell
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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12/11/2013 3:15:18 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/23/2013 3:38:49 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
I was thinking, if you want people to act a certain way how would you do it ?

Well you could try brute force and hold a gun to their head, trouble is once the gun is taken away the control factor goes way down.

You could try reason and evidence, trouble is people can dispute the evidence and question your reasoning.

But what if you could convince them their is a being, a supernatural being, who wants THEM to do and not do certain things. And of course this being is going to be most dis-pleased if you don't do these things, say never ending torture is your fate.

But there is a slight problem, since your just talking sh*t, this being its self isn't going to actually say anything and tell people to do anything. But what if we could convince people that this being has spoken to other people, given them communication, and of course we must obey this communication.

Of course there are other manipulative tactics one good use to get people to believe and stay believers. (Maybe a something for another thread)

Now some people are going to question the central premise here about whether there really is such a being, and even if it did, what it did or did not say, pointing our discrepancies in the reasoning and claims of the "religion", well we can kill them and pre-empt their objections by demonizing them as "evil", and of course the believers as lovers of truth and goodness.

So yeah......

Step 1 God exists
Step 2 Here is what God wants you too do (On punishment of hell fire if you don't)
Step 3 You now own their a$$

You may not like it, but you can't question its effectiveness, there is a reason religion ain't going anywhere fast, there is too much at stake, too much too lose.

That's why God has us saints sell everything we own before we go tell people ( believers who listen to us ) that the only punishment they receive is death of their flesh and life in this world that will be destroyed soon. Then we'll awaken in new bodies of flesh in the next age without any selfish thoughts of hell fire and making a living off of other people's fear.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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12/11/2013 3:18:35 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/23/2013 3:47:52 AM, Pennington wrote:
All incorrect. God simply wants you to recognize Him, love Him and seek His salvation. Committing sins and wrongs is something we all will do both saved and unsaved alike. Though ones who recognize God and sought His salvation tend to behave as He wants.

A sinful believer remains sinful until his flesh has perished during this age. The sinful flesh of a saint become totally obedient to the commands of God so He can use our bodies to write and speak from our invisible created existence as the Word of God, where all God's knowledge exists.

We learn from this invisible knowledge of God that ALL God's created people ( invisible spirit of men ) are saved from their flesh that perishes during this age. All flesh will perish on the last day when God planned His fire to melt the crust of the earth.
Paradox_7
Posts: 1,870
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12/11/2013 3:41:32 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/23/2013 3:38:49 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
I was thinking, if you want people to act a certain way how would you do it ?

Well you could try brute force and hold a gun to their head, trouble is once the gun is taken away the control factor goes way down.

You could try reason and evidence, trouble is people can dispute the evidence and question your reasoning.

But what if you could convince them their is a being, a supernatural being, who wants THEM to do and not do certain things. And of course this being is going to be most dis-pleased if you don't do these things, say never ending torture is your fate.

But there is a slight problem, since your just talking sh*t, this being its self isn't going to actually say anything and tell people to do anything. But what if we could convince people that this being has spoken to other people, given them communication, and of course we must obey this communication.

Of course there are other manipulative tactics one good use to get people to believe and stay believers. (Maybe a something for another thread)

Now some people are going to question the central premise here about whether there really is such a being, and even if it did, what it did or did not say, pointing our discrepancies in the reasoning and claims of the "religion", well we can kill them and pre-empt their objections by demonizing them as "evil", and of course the believers as lovers of truth and goodness.

So yeah......

Step 1 God exists
Step 2 Here is what God wants you too do (On punishment of hell fire if you don't)
Step 3 You now own their a$$

You may not like it, but you can't question its effectiveness, there is a reason religion ain't going anywhere fast, there is too much at stake, too much too lose.


Yeah it would be something like that, do's and dont do's, consequences, etc..

This is actually why, beside my knowledge of God, God seems so plausible... because the Bible reveals something far from the simple concepts of men, and the outline you listed above. The real message, is something very counter-intuitive and in truth alien to us.
: At 10/23/2012 8:06:03 PM, tvellalott wrote:
: Don't be. The Catholic Church is ran by Darth Sidius for fvck sake. As far as I'm concerned, you're a bona fide member of the Sith.
AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
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12/11/2013 4:38:03 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I was in church recently and thinking on the psychological bombardment that it is. Some of it was interesting, I think --like how you don't hear God referred to as this great being of love, but always this being of "Power and Might," always as something threatening more so than righteous. The straight-backed pew I pondered on, too. You see, it's rather common of man to make himself more physically comfortable in the face of mental turmoil --it's to do with how we're not really rational, but feeling --and then interesting indeed the forced discomfort of posture, that bombardment from behind to go with that from the front, or perhaps the priest's threats might be better said to be resounding, made greater by that extravagant, cavernous building, adorned with foreboding images and statues. Such power! And then, to make it worse, I am no Christian, and, in fact, I am rather the anti-Christian. Again, I was met with bombardment, nervous twitches amidst the sheep where they performed their rituals. In the end, I was left holding the leaflet on which the readings were transcribed, watching it shake in my hands, willing it not to, but in futility. All in all, it was a hugely uncomfortable experience for me, so contrarian as I am. I must confess, it did bring me, in that animal way, to consider giving up... but alas my rationality saved me. I'll go the Hell before bowing to such monstrosity.
ethang5
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12/12/2013 9:40:47 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/11/2013 4:38:03 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
I was in church recently and thinking on the psychological bombardment that it is. Some of it was interesting, I think --like how you don't hear God referred to as this great being of love, but always this being of "Power and Might," always as something threatening more so than righteous. The straight-backed pew I pondered on, too. You see, it's rather common of man to make himself more physically comfortable in the face of mental turmoil --it's to do with how we're not really rational, but feeling --and then interesting indeed the forced discomfort of posture, that bombardment from behind to go with that from the front, or perhaps the priest's threats might be better said to be resounding, made greater by that extravagant, cavernous building, adorned with foreboding images and statues. Such power! And then, to make it worse, I am no Christian, and, in fact, I am rather the anti-Christian. Again, I was met with bombardment, nervous twitches amidst the sheep where they performed their rituals. In the end, I was left holding the leaflet on which the readings were transcribed, watching it shake in my hands, willing it not to, but in futility. All in all, it was a hugely uncomfortable experience for me, so contrarian as I am. I must confess, it did bring me, in that animal way, to consider giving up... but alas my rationality saved me. I'll go the Hell before bowing to such monstrosity.

Ah! Free will in action! Whether he deserves Hell or not is immaterial. He chose it.
AnDoctuir
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12/12/2013 9:48:35 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/12/2013 9:40:47 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 12/11/2013 4:38:03 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
I was in church recently and thinking on the psychological bombardment that it is. Some of it was interesting, I think --like how you don't hear God referred to as this great being of love, but always this being of "Power and Might," always as something threatening more so than righteous. The straight-backed pew I pondered on, too. You see, it's rather common of man to make himself more physically comfortable in the face of mental turmoil --it's to do with how we're not really rational, but feeling --and then interesting indeed the forced discomfort of posture, that bombardment from behind to go with that from the front, or perhaps the priest's threats might be better said to be resounding, made greater by that extravagant, cavernous building, adorned with foreboding images and statues. Such power! And then, to make it worse, I am no Christian, and, in fact, I am rather the anti-Christian. Again, I was met with bombardment, nervous twitches amidst the sheep where they performed their rituals. In the end, I was left holding the leaflet on which the readings were transcribed, watching it shake in my hands, willing it not to, but in futility. All in all, it was a hugely uncomfortable experience for me, so contrarian as I am. I must confess, it did bring me, in that animal way, to consider giving up... but alas my rationality saved me. I'll go the Hell before bowing to such monstrosity.

Ah! Free will in action! Whether he deserves Hell or not is immaterial. He chose it.

Indeed. And yet I am moral --and more moral, in fact, than your average, right-wing Christian.
Paradox_7
Posts: 1,870
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12/12/2013 10:40:10 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/12/2013 9:48:35 AM, AnDoctuir wrote:
Indeed. And yet I am moral --and more moral, in fact, than your average, right-wing Christian.


According to whom?
: At 10/23/2012 8:06:03 PM, tvellalott wrote:
: Don't be. The Catholic Church is ran by Darth Sidius for fvck sake. As far as I'm concerned, you're a bona fide member of the Sith.
ethang5
Posts: 4,115
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12/12/2013 11:05:02 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/12/2013 9:48:35 AM, AnDoctuir wrote:
At 12/12/2013 9:40:47 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 12/11/2013 4:38:03 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
I was in church recently and thinking on the psychological bombardment that it is. Some of it was interesting, I think --like how you don't hear God referred to as this great being of love, but always this being of "Power and Might," always as something threatening more so than righteous. The straight-backed pew I pondered on, too. You see, it's rather common of man to make himself more physically comfortable in the face of mental turmoil --it's to do with how we're not really rational, but feeling --and then interesting indeed the forced discomfort of posture, that bombardment from behind to go with that from the front, or perhaps the priest's threats might be better said to be resounding, made greater by that extravagant, cavernous building, adorned with foreboding images and statues. Such power! And then, to make it worse, I am no Christian, and, in fact, I am rather the anti-Christian. Again, I was met with bombardment, nervous twitches amidst the sheep where they performed their rituals. In the end, I was left holding the leaflet on which the readings were transcribed, watching it shake in my hands, willing it not to, but in futility. All in all, it was a hugely uncomfortable experience for me, so contrarian as I am. I must confess, it did bring me, in that animal way, to consider giving up... but alas my rationality saved me. I'll go the Hell before bowing to such monstrosity.

Ah! Free will in action! Whether he deserves Hell or not is immaterial. He chose it.

Indeed.

So I ask the board. IF AnDoctuir was to go to Hell, (for the sake of argument) would it be just or unjust? Is not denying a person their choice wrong?

And yet I am moral --and more moral, in fact, than your average, right-wing Christian.

Is that where the bar is set? The average, right-wing Christian? If so then you can rest easy my moral atheist. You're above average.
AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
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12/12/2013 11:09:50 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/12/2013 11:05:02 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 12/12/2013 9:48:35 AM, AnDoctuir wrote:
At 12/12/2013 9:40:47 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 12/11/2013 4:38:03 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
I was in church recently and thinking on the psychological bombardment that it is. Some of it was interesting, I think --like how you don't hear God referred to as this great being of love, but always this being of "Power and Might," always as something threatening more so than righteous. The straight-backed pew I pondered on, too. You see, it's rather common of man to make himself more physically comfortable in the face of mental turmoil --it's to do with how we're not really rational, but feeling --and then interesting indeed the forced discomfort of posture, that bombardment from behind to go with that from the front, or perhaps the priest's threats might be better said to be resounding, made greater by that extravagant, cavernous building, adorned with foreboding images and statues. Such power! And then, to make it worse, I am no Christian, and, in fact, I am rather the anti-Christian. Again, I was met with bombardment, nervous twitches amidst the sheep where they performed their rituals. In the end, I was left holding the leaflet on which the readings were transcribed, watching it shake in my hands, willing it not to, but in futility. All in all, it was a hugely uncomfortable experience for me, so contrarian as I am. I must confess, it did bring me, in that animal way, to consider giving up... but alas my rationality saved me. I'll go the Hell before bowing to such monstrosity.

Ah! Free will in action! Whether he deserves Hell or not is immaterial. He chose it.

Indeed.

So I ask the board. IF AnDoctuir was to go to Hell, (for the sake of argument) would it be just or unjust? Is not denying a person their choice wrong?

Indeed --what sort of a world is it at all where only submission to power is righteous?

And yet I am moral --and more moral, in fact, than your average, right-wing Christian.

Is that where the bar is set? The average, right-wing Christian? If so then you can rest easy my moral atheist. You're above average.

I'm looking at what's generally "Christian" and see only comatosed, immoral fools, looking to their god in weakness, and wickedly.
AnDoctuir
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12/12/2013 11:11:26 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/12/2013 10:40:10 AM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 12/12/2013 9:48:35 AM, AnDoctuir wrote:
Indeed. And yet I am moral --and more moral, in fact, than your average, right-wing Christian.


According to whom?

According to myself --and, mind you, my commandments of myself are much more stringent than your obvious few.
ethang5
Posts: 4,115
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12/12/2013 11:33:02 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/12/2013 11:09:50 AM, AnDoctuir wrote:

I'll go the Hell before bowing to such monstrosity.

Ah! Free will in action! Whether he deserves Hell or not is immaterial. He chose it.

Indeed.

So I ask the board. IF AnDoctuir was to go to Hell, (for the sake of argument) would it be just or unjust? Is not denying a person their choice wrong?

Indeed --what sort of a world is it at all where only submission to power is righteous?

So let me understand. You are offered two choices. Submit and live, rebel and die. You freely choose to rebel. Yet you say your consequence is unjust? So, for it to be just, you should freely choose to rebel and die, but then should NOT be allowed your choice, but given the option you freely did NOT choose. Correct?

And yet I am moral --and more moral, in fact, than your average, right-wing Christian.

Is that where the bar is set? The average, right-wing Christian? If so then you can rest easy my moral atheist. You're above average.

I'm looking at what's generally "Christian" and see only comatosed, immoral fools, looking to their god in weakness, and wickedly.

Yes, your assessment of your fellow man seems to live up to your moral standard. You're not like them at all.

I am no atheist, by the way. I just will not submit to monstrosity.

Are you a non-submitting theist? Or do you submit to some other God and just not to the Christian monstrosity?
Paradox_7
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12/12/2013 1:15:06 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/12/2013 11:11:26 AM, AnDoctuir wrote:
At 12/12/2013 10:40:10 AM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 12/12/2013 9:48:35 AM, AnDoctuir wrote:
Indeed. And yet I am moral --and more moral, in fact, than your average, right-wing Christian.


According to whom?

According to myself --and, mind you, my commandments of myself are much more stringent than your obvious few.

Thats what I figured, and since its according to yourself, you should be willing to accept that stating you are "more moral" is completely worthless and pointless to anyone else.

As am I with God's Laws. They aren't MY commandments, and just two of them are stringent enough to make them impossible to obey perfectly (or near perfectly) anyway... I would never expect someone to be capable of such a righteous behavior.
: At 10/23/2012 8:06:03 PM, tvellalott wrote:
: Don't be. The Catholic Church is ran by Darth Sidius for fvck sake. As far as I'm concerned, you're a bona fide member of the Sith.
AnDoctuir
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12/12/2013 1:24:59 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/12/2013 11:33:02 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 12/12/2013 11:09:50 AM, AnDoctuir wrote:

I'll go the Hell before bowing to such monstrosity.

Ah! Free will in action! Whether he deserves Hell or not is immaterial. He chose it.

Indeed.

So I ask the board. IF AnDoctuir was to go to Hell, (for the sake of argument) would it be just or unjust? Is not denying a person their choice wrong?

Indeed --what sort of a world is it at all where only submission to power is righteous?

So let me understand. You are offered two choices. Submit and live, rebel and die. You freely choose to rebel. Yet you say your consequence is unjust? So, for it to be just, you should freely choose to rebel and die, but then should NOT be allowed your choice, but given the option you freely did NOT choose. Correct?

No, not correct --dumb, in fact. My objection is merely that what you propose is preposterous, monstrous.

And yet I am moral --and more moral, in fact, than your average, right-wing Christian.

Is that where the bar is set? The average, right-wing Christian? If so then you can rest easy my moral atheist. You're above average.

I'm looking at what's generally "Christian" and see only comatosed, immoral fools, looking to their god in weakness, and wickedly.

Yes, your assessment of your fellow man seems to live up to your moral standard. You're not like them at all.

There are good people out there. Most people are just terribly deluded, is all. It is a part of my morality to call out that which is unjust wherever I encounter it, regardless of the consequences. Again, I will go to Hell before bow to your monster of a god.

I am no atheist, by the way. I just will not submit to monstrosity.

Are you a non-submitting theist? Or do you submit to some other God and just not to the Christian monstrosity?

I am holding out on faith in something that is better than what you propose, but really I am an agnostic --one who will not be classified as "atheist", because of the dogma that usually goes with that title.
AnDoctuir
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12/12/2013 1:26:42 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/12/2013 1:15:06 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 12/12/2013 11:11:26 AM, AnDoctuir wrote:
At 12/12/2013 10:40:10 AM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 12/12/2013 9:48:35 AM, AnDoctuir wrote:
Indeed. And yet I am moral --and more moral, in fact, than your average, right-wing Christian.


According to whom?

According to myself --and, mind you, my commandments of myself are much more stringent than your obvious few.

Thats what I figured, and since its according to yourself, you should be willing to accept that stating you are "more moral" is completely worthless and pointless to anyone else.

Do you not know good and evil when you see them? But of course you don't --you're a member of that insidious cult which is Christianity.

As am I with God's Laws. They aren't MY commandments, and just two of them are stringent enough to make them impossible to obey perfectly (or near perfectly) anyway... I would never expect someone to be capable of such a righteous behavior.

"God's Laws"--lol.
Paradox_7
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12/12/2013 1:36:44 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/12/2013 1:26:42 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
At 12/12/2013 1:15:06 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 12/12/2013 11:11:26 AM, AnDoctuir wrote:
At 12/12/2013 10:40:10 AM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 12/12/2013 9:48:35 AM, AnDoctuir wrote:
Indeed. And yet I am moral --and more moral, in fact, than your average, right-wing Christian.


According to whom?

According to myself --and, mind you, my commandments of myself are much more stringent than your obvious few.

Thats what I figured, and since its according to yourself, you should be willing to accept that stating you are "more moral" is completely worthless and pointless to anyone else.

Do you not know good and evil when you see them? But of course you don't --you're a member of that insidious cult which is Christianity.

Insidious? Yikes.. I'm guessing you've been a victim of some gnarly business in the name of Christianity. I'm sorry you feel that way...

As am I with God's Laws. They aren't MY commandments, and just two of them are stringent enough to make them impossible to obey perfectly (or near perfectly) anyway... I would never expect someone to be capable of such a righteous behavior.

"God's Laws"--lol.

Would you prefer I just call them my laws since you don't agree with them? Would that make you feel better?
: At 10/23/2012 8:06:03 PM, tvellalott wrote:
: Don't be. The Catholic Church is ran by Darth Sidius for fvck sake. As far as I'm concerned, you're a bona fide member of the Sith.