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Pennington
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2/25/2013 4:27:23 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
God started time, made space and formed matter. Science verifies that the very first verse of the Bible stands confirmed. Our life consist of time, space and matter. The start cycle of rotation is how time began. Without this rotation time doesn't exist and therefore aging doesn't occur. We watch hands on a clock rotate around with each click symbolizing the advancement of time. Our planets rotate around the sun and each rotation symbolizes advancement of time. For God to create time then some form of rotation must have began. God created space which is the expanse of room. Room must have been needed to create matter and to place it in such a way for it to rotate for the time scale needed for God. This time scale is obviously at a much larger scale then our perception of time.
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tkubok
Posts: 5,044
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2/25/2013 4:40:22 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/25/2013 4:27:23 AM, Pennington wrote:
God started time, made space and formed matter. Science verifies that the very first verse of the Bible stands confirmed. Our life consist of time, space and matter. The start cycle of rotation is how time began. Without this rotation time doesn't exist and therefore aging doesn't occur. We watch hands on a clock rotate around with each click symbolizing the advancement of time. Our planets rotate around the sun and each rotation symbolizes advancement of time. For God to create time then some form of rotation must have began. God created space which is the expanse of room. Room must have been needed to create matter and to place it in such a way for it to rotate for the time scale needed for God. This time scale is obviously at a much larger scale then our perception of time.

It doesnt say in the bible that he created space. Also, even if all the objects in the universe didnt rotate, time would still exist. Things dont need to be rotating in order to change.
Pennington
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2/25/2013 5:22:10 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/25/2013 4:40:22 AM, tkubok wrote:
At 2/25/2013 4:27:23 AM, Pennington wrote:
God started time, made space and formed matter. Science verifies that the very first verse of the Bible stands confirmed. Our life consist of time, space and matter. The start cycle of rotation is how time began. Without this rotation time doesn't exist and therefore aging doesn't occur. We watch hands on a clock rotate around with each click symbolizing the advancement of time. Our planets rotate around the sun and each rotation symbolizes advancement of time. For God to create time then some form of rotation must have began. God created space which is the expanse of room. Room must have been needed to create matter and to place it in such a way for it to rotate for the time scale needed for God. This time scale is obviously at a much larger scale then our perception of time.

It doesnt say in the bible that he created space. Also, even if all the objects in the universe didnt rotate, time would still exist. Things dont need to be rotating in order to change.:

LOL!
Space =/= Heavens
Tell me what ages that doesn't rotate?
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tkubok
Posts: 5,044
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2/25/2013 5:41:35 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/25/2013 5:22:10 AM, Pennington wrote:
At 2/25/2013 4:40:22 AM, tkubok wrote:
At 2/25/2013 4:27:23 AM, Pennington wrote:
God started time, made space and formed matter. Science verifies that the very first verse of the Bible stands confirmed. Our life consist of time, space and matter. The start cycle of rotation is how time began. Without this rotation time doesn't exist and therefore aging doesn't occur. We watch hands on a clock rotate around with each click symbolizing the advancement of time. Our planets rotate around the sun and each rotation symbolizes advancement of time. For God to create time then some form of rotation must have began. God created space which is the expanse of room. Room must have been needed to create matter and to place it in such a way for it to rotate for the time scale needed for God. This time scale is obviously at a much larger scale then our perception of time.

It doesnt say in the bible that he created space. Also, even if all the objects in the universe didnt rotate, time would still exist. Things dont need to be rotating in order to change.:

LOL!
Space =/= Heavens
Tell me what ages that doesn't rotate?

So youre saying that space isnt the same as the heavens? I agree. Because the heavens, the specific thing that is discussed in the bible, has to do with the stars and the clouds. Its clearly stated that God spread the heavens like a curtain. If theres nothing there, then theres nothing to spread out. Clearly the bible is talking about the stars and the clouds, etc.

Also, what do you mean by "What ages that doesnt rotate"?
Pennington
Posts: 1,286
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2/25/2013 6:12:55 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/25/2013 5:41:35 AM, tkubok wrote:
At 2/25/2013 5:22:10 AM, Pennington wrote:
At 2/25/2013 4:40:22 AM, tkubok wrote:
At 2/25/2013 4:27:23 AM, Pennington wrote:
God started time, made space and formed matter. Science verifies that the very first verse of the Bible stands confirmed. Our life consist of time, space and matter. The start cycle of rotation is how time began. Without this rotation time doesn't exist and therefore aging doesn't occur. We watch hands on a clock rotate around with each click symbolizing the advancement of time. Our planets rotate around the sun and each rotation symbolizes advancement of time. For God to create time then some form of rotation must have began. God created space which is the expanse of room. Room must have been needed to create matter and to place it in such a way for it to rotate for the time scale needed for God. This time scale is obviously at a much larger scale then our perception of time.

It doesnt say in the bible that he created space. Also, even if all the objects in the universe didnt rotate, time would still exist. Things dont need to be rotating in order to change.:

LOL!
Space =/= Heavens
Tell me what ages that doesn't rotate?

So youre saying that space isnt the same as the heavens?
Sorry, I wasn't.
I agree. Because the heavens, the specific thing that is discussed in the bible, has to do with the stars and the clouds.:
You are making heavens singular when it is plural. There are heavens with clouds. Then there are obviously heavens with stars which is in space. Connecting what we call space with heavens.
Its clearly stated that God spread the heavens like a curtain.:
Yeah and so.....Space is not spread out?
If theres nothing there, then theres nothing to spread out.
Nothing where in space? There is plenty in space.
Clearly the bible is talking about the stars and the clouds, etc.:
Where are the stars?

Also, what do you mean by "What ages that doesnt rotate"?
Tell me what ages, gets older, changes, that does not rotate?
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Hvaniratha
Posts: 37
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2/25/2013 6:48:18 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
" ... within the limits of finite time. "
-- Denkard, book 3

I agree with your O P , " Penington ". I think when Ohrmazd created the " celestial sphere " he created space, time, etc, etc.
tkubok
Posts: 5,044
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2/25/2013 7:17:14 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/25/2013 6:12:55 AM, Pennington wrote:
At 2/25/2013 5:41:35 AM, tkubok wrote:
At 2/25/2013 5:22:10 AM, Pennington wrote:
At 2/25/2013 4:40:22 AM, tkubok wrote:
At 2/25/2013 4:27:23 AM, Pennington wrote:
God started time, made space and formed matter. Science verifies that the very first verse of the Bible stands confirmed. Our life consist of time, space and matter. The start cycle of rotation is how time began. Without this rotation time doesn't exist and therefore aging doesn't occur. We watch hands on a clock rotate around with each click symbolizing the advancement of time. Our planets rotate around the sun and each rotation symbolizes advancement of time. For God to create time then some form of rotation must have began. God created space which is the expanse of room. Room must have been needed to create matter and to place it in such a way for it to rotate for the time scale needed for God. This time scale is obviously at a much larger scale then our perception of time.

It doesnt say in the bible that he created space. Also, even if all the objects in the universe didnt rotate, time would still exist. Things dont need to be rotating in order to change.:

LOL!
Space =/= Heavens
Tell me what ages that doesn't rotate?

So youre saying that space isnt the same as the heavens?
Sorry, I wasn't.
I agree. Because the heavens, the specific thing that is discussed in the bible, has to do with the stars and the clouds.:
You are making heavens singular when it is plural. There are heavens with clouds. Then there are obviously heavens with stars which is in space. Connecting what we call space with heavens.

No, i clearly said the stars AND the clouds. I didnt make it singular.

Its clearly stated that God spread the heavens like a curtain.:
Yeah and so.....Space is not spread out?

Not like a curtain, no.

If theres nothing there, then theres nothing to spread out.
Nothing where in space? There is plenty in space.

No, not "nothing in space", space IS nothing. You cannot spread "Nothing" around.

Clearly the bible is talking about the stars and the clouds, etc.:
Where are the stars?

What do you mean by this?


Also, what do you mean by "What ages that doesnt rotate"?
Tell me what ages, gets older, changes, that does not rotate?

The universe. But even if it didnt. Bacteria. These things dont rotate around.
Pennington
Posts: 1,286
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2/25/2013 7:27:23 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/25/2013 7:17:14 AM, tkubok wrote:
At 2/25/2013 6:12:55 AM, Pennington wrote:
At 2/25/2013 5:41:35 AM, tkubok wrote:
At 2/25/2013 5:22:10 AM, Pennington wrote:
At 2/25/2013 4:40:22 AM, tkubok wrote:
At 2/25/2013 4:27:23 AM, Pennington wrote:
God started time, made space and formed matter. Science verifies that the very first verse of the Bible stands confirmed. Our life consist of time, space and matter. The start cycle of rotation is how time began. Without this rotation time doesn't exist and therefore aging doesn't occur. We watch hands on a clock rotate around with each click symbolizing the advancement of time. Our planets rotate around the sun and each rotation symbolizes advancement of time. For God to create time then some form of rotation must have began. God created space which is the expanse of room. Room must have been needed to create matter and to place it in such a way for it to rotate for the time scale needed for God. This time scale is obviously at a much larger scale then our perception of time.

It doesnt say in the bible that he created space. Also, even if all the objects in the universe didnt rotate, time would still exist. Things dont need to be rotating in order to change.:

LOL!
Space =/= Heavens
Tell me what ages that doesn't rotate?

So youre saying that space isnt the same as the heavens?
Sorry, I wasn't.
I agree. Because the heavens, the specific thing that is discussed in the bible, has to do with the stars and the clouds.:
You are making heavens singular when it is plural. There are heavens with clouds. Then there are obviously heavens with stars which is in space. Connecting what we call space with heavens.

No, i clearly said the stars AND the clouds. I didnt make it singular.

Its clearly stated that God spread the heavens like a curtain.:
Yeah and so.....Space is not spread out?

Not like a curtain, no.:
So your going to say that the entirety of all space is known by you to determine is it is spread out like a curtain?

If there's nothing there, then there's nothing to spread out.
Nothing where in space? There is plenty in space.

No, not "nothing in space", space IS nothing. You cannot spread "Nothing" around.:
Space is a expanse. Space is not nothing, it is room. You make room to place things in the room=space, stars, planets, etc. etc.

Clearly the bible is talking about the stars and the clouds, etc.:
Where are the stars?

What do you mean by this?:
Stars are in space or the heavens.


Also, what do you mean by "What ages that doesnt rotate"?
Tell me what ages, gets older, changes, that does not rotate?

The universe. But even if it didnt. Bacteria. These things dont rotate around.:
Our universe doesn't rotate? Bacteria in fact rotates. Anything on this planet, universe or galaxy does rotate.
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tkubok
Posts: 5,044
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2/25/2013 7:36:08 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/25/2013 7:27:23 AM, Pennington wrote:
At 2/25/2013 7:17:14 AM, tkubok wrote:
At 2/25/2013 6:12:55 AM, Pennington wrote:
At 2/25/2013 5:41:35 AM, tkubok wrote:
At 2/25/2013 5:22:10 AM, Pennington wrote:
At 2/25/2013 4:40:22 AM, tkubok wrote:
At 2/25/2013 4:27:23 AM, Pennington wrote:
God started time, made space and formed matter. Science verifies that the very first verse of the Bible stands confirmed. Our life consist of time, space and matter. The start cycle of rotation is how time began. Without this rotation time doesn't exist and therefore aging doesn't occur. We watch hands on a clock rotate around with each click symbolizing the advancement of time. Our planets rotate around the sun and each rotation symbolizes advancement of time. For God to create time then some form of rotation must have began. God created space which is the expanse of room. Room must have been needed to create matter and to place it in such a way for it to rotate for the time scale needed for God. This time scale is obviously at a much larger scale then our perception of time.

It doesnt say in the bible that he created space. Also, even if all the objects in the universe didnt rotate, time would still exist. Things dont need to be rotating in order to change.:

LOL!
Space =/= Heavens
Tell me what ages that doesn't rotate?

So youre saying that space isnt the same as the heavens?
Sorry, I wasn't.
I agree. Because the heavens, the specific thing that is discussed in the bible, has to do with the stars and the clouds.:
You are making heavens singular when it is plural. There are heavens with clouds. Then there are obviously heavens with stars which is in space. Connecting what we call space with heavens.

No, i clearly said the stars AND the clouds. I didnt make it singular.

Its clearly stated that God spread the heavens like a curtain.:
Yeah and so.....Space is not spread out?

Not like a curtain, no.:
So your going to say that the entirety of all space is known by you to determine is it is spread out like a curtain?

No, the parts that we already do know of, conclusively tell us that it isnt spread out like a curtain. Are you saying that the vacuum that exists directly outside our atmosphere is not space?

If there's nothing there, then there's nothing to spread out.
Nothing where in space? There is plenty in space.

No, not "nothing in space", space IS nothing. You cannot spread "Nothing" around.:
Space is a expanse. Space is not nothing, it is room. You make room to place things in the room=space, stars, planets, etc. etc.

Sure, But that room contains nothing if it has nothing in it, doesnt it?

Clearly the bible is talking about the stars and the clouds, etc.:
Where are the stars?

What do you mean by this?:
Stars are in space or the heavens.

Okay. Actually, we can probably better settle this by me asking you a simple question. Did God create the void?



Also, what do you mean by "What ages that doesnt rotate"?
Tell me what ages, gets older, changes, that does not rotate?

The universe. But even if it didnt. Bacteria. These things dont rotate around.:
Our universe doesn't rotate? Bacteria in fact rotates. Anything on this planet, universe or galaxy does rotate.

The universe doesnt rotate. And no, bacteria doesnt NEED to rotate in order to survive, and thats why the point. Even if this planet, in this solar system, in this galaxy, stopped rotating, bacteria would still be alive, get older, and change. But again, the universe doesnt rotate.
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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2/25/2013 8:23:30 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/25/2013 4:27:23 AM, Pennington wrote:
God started time,

In order to "start" something, time must already exist.

made space and formed matter. Science verifies that the very first verse of the Bible stands confirmed.

No it doesn't.

Our life consist of time, space and matter. The start cycle of rotation is how time began. Without this rotation time doesn't exist and therefore aging doesn't occur. We watch hands on a clock rotate around with each click symbolizing the advancement of time. Our planets rotate around the sun and each rotation symbolizes advancement of time. For God to create time then some form of rotation must have began. God created space which is the expanse of room. Room must have been needed to create matter and to place it in such a way for it to rotate for the time scale needed for God. This time scale is obviously at a much larger scale then our perception of time.

I counter with:

"If Earth stood still, it would have mid-day, mid-night, sun-up and sun-down as 4 corners. Each rotation of earth has 4 mid-days, 4 mid-nights, 4 sun-ups and 4 sun-downs.

The sixteen(16) space times demonstrates cube proof of 4 full days simultaneously on earth within one (1) rotation. The academia created 1 day greenwich time is bastardly queer and dooms future youth and nature to a hell.
Ignorance of 4 day harmonic cubic nature indicts humans as unfit to live on earth. "
Pennington
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2/25/2013 8:37:21 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/25/2013 8:23:30 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 2/25/2013 4:27:23 AM, Pennington wrote:
God started time,

In order to "start" something, time must already exist.:
If you want to believe that you can.

made space and formed matter. Science verifies that the very first verse of the Bible stands confirmed.

No it doesn't.:
With all the matter in the universe located in a small area, which would be the beginning point. The best science confirms a "beginning" to the universe. That matter decays over of time.
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Pennington
Posts: 1,286
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2/25/2013 9:24:01 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/25/2013 7:36:08 AM, tkubok wrote:

No, the parts that we already do know of, conclusively tell us that it isnt spread out like a curtain. Are you saying that the vacuum that exists directly outside our atmosphere is not space?:
No.

Sure, But that room contains nothing if it has nothing in it, doesnt it?:
Maybe it always contained something but was widend and had more out in it.


Also, what do you mean by "What ages that doesnt rotate"?
Tell me what ages, gets older, changes, that does not rotate?

The universe. But even if it didnt. Bacteria. These things dont rotate around.:
Our universe doesn't rotate? Bacteria in fact rotates. Anything on this planet, universe or galaxy does rotate.

The universe doesnt rotate. And no, bacteria doesnt NEED to rotate in order to survive, and thats why the point. Even if this planet, in this solar system, in this galaxy, stopped rotating, bacteria would still be alive, get older, and change. But again, the universe doesnt rotate.:

Everything has always rotated so you dont know if it stopped if it would still age. I never sayed it wouldnt exist. The general case seems to be that everything in the universe rotates. The earth rotates, the solar system rotates, the galaxies rotates and so it would seem the universe rotates. You could not know because it would be at such a speed that it would outside of ones lifetime or study.
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Pennington
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2/25/2013 9:25:41 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/25/2013 7:36:08 AM, tkubok wrote:
Okay. Actually, we can probably better settle this by me asking you a simple question. Did God create the void?

What do mean by void?
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drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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2/25/2013 9:37:46 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/25/2013 8:37:21 AM, Pennington wrote:
At 2/25/2013 8:23:30 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 2/25/2013 4:27:23 AM, Pennington wrote:
God started time,

In order to "start" something, time must already exist.:
If you want to believe that you can.

The definition of words is independent of my beliefs.


made space and formed matter. Science verifies that the very first verse of the Bible stands confirmed.

No it doesn't.:
With all the matter in the universe located in a small area, which would be the beginning point. The best science confirms a "beginning" to the universe. That matter decays over of time.

No, it doesn't confirm that. The hypothetical singularity is merely an artifact of extrapolating general relativity far enough back in time. However, when combining quantum mechanics, the theory breaks down, meaning we can't accurately model that period of the universe, let alone say it is the "beginning."

Regardless, and more to the point, the first of the Bible says:

"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."

Science confirms no such thing and, in fact, explicitly denies this in the sense that the Earth came billions of years after any hypothetical "beginning."
Pennington
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2/25/2013 9:54:11 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/25/2013 9:37:46 AM, drafterman wrote:
Science confirms no such thing and, in fact, explicitly denies this in the sense that the Earth came billions of years after any hypothetical "beginning.":

Well any Christian must admit that time to God and humans are far different and time maybe much longer. Even if God was talking an galatical day or God day in the creation science still affirms that Time began, Matter must exist and space does exist. Science doesn't affirm God of course and Him actually creating it. It affirms what is described being made.
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drafterman
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2/25/2013 10:02:57 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/25/2013 9:54:11 AM, Pennington wrote:
At 2/25/2013 9:37:46 AM, drafterman wrote:
Science confirms no such thing and, in fact, explicitly denies this in the sense that the Earth came billions of years after any hypothetical "beginning.":

Well any Christian must admit that time to God and humans are far different and time maybe much longer. Even if God was talking an galatical day or God day in the creation science still affirms that Time began, Matter must exist and space does exist. Science doesn't affirm God of course and Him actually creating it. It affirms what is described being made.

Show me a reference.
Pennington
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2/25/2013 10:26:04 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/25/2013 10:02:57 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 2/25/2013 9:54:11 AM, Pennington wrote:
At 2/25/2013 9:37:46 AM, drafterman wrote:
Science confirms no such thing and, in fact, explicitly denies this in the sense that the Earth came billions of years after any hypothetical "beginning.":

Well any Christian must admit that time to God and humans are far different and time maybe much longer. Even if God was talking an galatical day or God day in the creation science still affirms that Time began, Matter must exist and space does exist. Science doesn't affirm God of course and Him actually creating it. It affirms what is described being made.

Show me a reference.

http://www.icr.org...
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drafterman
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2/25/2013 11:11:23 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/25/2013 10:26:04 AM, Pennington wrote:
At 2/25/2013 10:02:57 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 2/25/2013 9:54:11 AM, Pennington wrote:
At 2/25/2013 9:37:46 AM, drafterman wrote:
Science confirms no such thing and, in fact, explicitly denies this in the sense that the Earth came billions of years after any hypothetical "beginning.":

Well any Christian must admit that time to God and humans are far different and time maybe much longer. Even if God was talking an galatical day or God day in the creation science still affirms that Time began, Matter must exist and space does exist. Science doesn't affirm God of course and Him actually creating it. It affirms what is described being made.

Show me a reference.

http://www.icr.org...

"As far as matter is concerned, however, they are still at a loss as to what to believe about that."

Thank you for proving my point.
Pennington
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2/25/2013 8:07:02 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/25/2013 11:11:23 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 2/25/2013 10:26:04 AM, Pennington wrote:
At 2/25/2013 10:02:57 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 2/25/2013 9:54:11 AM, Pennington wrote:
At 2/25/2013 9:37:46 AM, drafterman wrote:
Science confirms no such thing and, in fact, explicitly denies this in the sense that the Earth came billions of years after any hypothetical "beginning.":

Well any Christian must admit that time to God and humans are far different and time maybe much longer. Even if God was talking an galatical day or God day in the creation science still affirms that Time began, Matter must exist and space does exist. Science doesn't affirm God of course and Him actually creating it. It affirms what is described being made.

Show me a reference.

http://www.icr.org...

"As far as matter is concerned, however, they are still at a loss as to what to believe about that."

Thank you for proving my point.:

Do you or do you not have the answer for how and where matter came from?
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drafterman
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2/25/2013 8:20:30 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/25/2013 8:07:02 PM, Pennington wrote:
At 2/25/2013 11:11:23 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 2/25/2013 10:26:04 AM, Pennington wrote:
At 2/25/2013 10:02:57 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 2/25/2013 9:54:11 AM, Pennington wrote:
At 2/25/2013 9:37:46 AM, drafterman wrote:
Science confirms no such thing and, in fact, explicitly denies this in the sense that the Earth came billions of years after any hypothetical "beginning.":

Well any Christian must admit that time to God and humans are far different and time maybe much longer. Even if God was talking an galatical day or God day in the creation science still affirms that Time began, Matter must exist and space does exist. Science doesn't affirm God of course and Him actually creating it. It affirms what is described being made.

Show me a reference.

http://www.icr.org...

"As far as matter is concerned, however, they are still at a loss as to what to believe about that."

Thank you for proving my point.:

Do you or do you not have the answer for how and where matter came from?

Nope. It's unknown. Meaning it neither confirms nor contradicts genesis.
tkubok
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2/25/2013 11:09:42 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/25/2013 9:24:01 AM, Pennington wrote:
At 2/25/2013 7:36:08 AM, tkubok wrote:

No, the parts that we already do know of, conclusively tell us that it isnt spread out like a curtain. Are you saying that the vacuum that exists directly outside our atmosphere is not space?:
No.
Then it cannot be spread like a curtain. Clearly.
Sure, But that room contains nothing if it has nothing in it, doesnt it?:
Maybe it always contained something but was widend and had more out in it.

Okay, so my question would be, is there a section of space that is devoid and contains nothing in it?


Also, what do you mean by "What ages that doesnt rotate"?
Tell me what ages, gets older, changes, that does not rotate?

The universe. But even if it didnt. Bacteria. These things dont rotate around.:
Our universe doesn't rotate? Bacteria in fact rotates. Anything on this planet, universe or galaxy does rotate.

The universe doesnt rotate. And no, bacteria doesnt NEED to rotate in order to survive, and thats why the point. Even if this planet, in this solar system, in this galaxy, stopped rotating, bacteria would still be alive, get older, and change. But again, the universe doesnt rotate.:

Everything has always rotated so you dont know if it stopped if it would still age. I never sayed it wouldnt exist. The general case seems to be that everything in the universe rotates. The earth rotates, the solar system rotates, the galaxies rotates and so it would seem the universe rotates. You could not know because it would be at such a speed that it would outside of ones lifetime or study.

Well, no, comets dont rotate. I mean, if were listing things in the universe that move without rotating, we can come up with a few things, like comets, black holes, dark matter, etc not to mention the universe itself. I still dont understand what it is with you and rotations. And now you make the unfounded assertion that the universe must also be rotating, despite no evidence supporting your claim, and contrary to evidence we do have.
tkubok
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2/25/2013 11:10:11 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/25/2013 9:25:41 AM, Pennington wrote:
At 2/25/2013 7:36:08 AM, tkubok wrote:
Okay. Actually, we can probably better settle this by me asking you a simple question. Did God create the void?

What do mean by void?

Empty space.
Pennington
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2/26/2013 8:27:02 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/25/2013 8:20:30 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 2/25/2013 8:07:02 PM, Pennington wrote:
At 2/25/2013 11:11:23 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 2/25/2013 10:26:04 AM, Pennington wrote:
At 2/25/2013 10:02:57 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 2/25/2013 9:54:11 AM, Pennington wrote:
At 2/25/2013 9:37:46 AM, drafterman wrote:
Science confirms no such thing and, in fact, explicitly denies this in the sense that the Earth came billions of years after any hypothetical "beginning.":

Well any Christian must admit that time to God and humans are far different and time maybe much longer. Even if God was talking an galatical day or God day in the creation science still affirms that Time began, Matter must exist and space does exist. Science doesn't affirm God of course and Him actually creating it. It affirms what is described being made.

Show me a reference.

http://www.icr.org...

"As far as matter is concerned, however, they are still at a loss as to what to believe about that."

Thank you for proving my point.:

Do you or do you not have the answer for how and where matter came from?

Nope. It's unknown. Meaning it neither confirms nor contradicts genesis.

If that makes you feel good then, ok.
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drafterman
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2/26/2013 8:28:59 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/26/2013 8:27:02 AM, Pennington wrote:
At 2/25/2013 8:20:30 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 2/25/2013 8:07:02 PM, Pennington wrote:
At 2/25/2013 11:11:23 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 2/25/2013 10:26:04 AM, Pennington wrote:
At 2/25/2013 10:02:57 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 2/25/2013 9:54:11 AM, Pennington wrote:
At 2/25/2013 9:37:46 AM, drafterman wrote:
Science confirms no such thing and, in fact, explicitly denies this in the sense that the Earth came billions of years after any hypothetical "beginning.":

Well any Christian must admit that time to God and humans are far different and time maybe much longer. Even if God was talking an galatical day or God day in the creation science still affirms that Time began, Matter must exist and space does exist. Science doesn't affirm God of course and Him actually creating it. It affirms what is described being made.

Show me a reference.

http://www.icr.org...

"As far as matter is concerned, however, they are still at a loss as to what to believe about that."

Thank you for proving my point.:

Do you or do you not have the answer for how and where matter came from?

Nope. It's unknown. Meaning it neither confirms nor contradicts genesis.

If that makes you feel good then, ok.

And if it doesn't?
Pennington
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2/26/2013 8:31:08 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/25/2013 11:09:42 PM, tkubok wrote:
At 2/25/2013 9:24:01 AM, Pennington wrote:
At 2/25/2013 7:36:08 AM, tkubok wrote:

No, the parts that we already do know of, conclusively tell us that it isnt spread out like a curtain. Are you saying that the vacuum that exists directly outside our atmosphere is not space?:
No.
Then it cannot be spread like a curtain. Clearly.:
From your position which is human and earthly it seems that way but from a creator stand point maybe that view is different.
Sure, But that room contains nothing if it has nothing in it, doesnt it?:
Maybe it always contained something but was widend and had more out in it.

Okay, so my question would be, is there a section of space that is devoid and contains nothing in it?:
No.


Also, what do you mean by "What ages that doesnt rotate"?
Tell me what ages, gets older, changes, that does not rotate?

The universe. But even if it didnt. Bacteria. These things dont rotate around.:
Our universe doesn't rotate? Bacteria in fact rotates. Anything on this planet, universe or galaxy does rotate.

The universe doesnt rotate. And no, bacteria doesnt NEED to rotate in order to survive, and thats why the point. Even if this planet, in this solar system, in this galaxy, stopped rotating, bacteria would still be alive, get older, and change. But again, the universe doesnt rotate.:

Everything has always rotated so you dont know if it stopped if it would still age. I never sayed it wouldnt exist. The general case seems to be that everything in the universe rotates. The earth rotates, the solar system rotates, the galaxies rotates and so it would seem the universe rotates. You could not know because it would be at such a speed that it would outside of ones lifetime or study.

Well, no, comets dont rotate. I mean, if were listing things in the universe that move without rotating, we can come up with a few things, like comets, black holes, dark matter, etc not to mention the universe itself. I still dont understand what it is with you and rotations. And now you make the unfounded assertion that the universe must also be rotating, despite no evidence supporting your claim, and contrary to evidence we do have.:

No evidence supports rotation.
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Pennington
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2/26/2013 8:31:49 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/26/2013 8:28:59 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 2/26/2013 8:27:02 AM, Pennington wrote:
At 2/25/2013 8:20:30 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 2/25/2013 8:07:02 PM, Pennington wrote:
At 2/25/2013 11:11:23 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 2/25/2013 10:26:04 AM, Pennington wrote:
At 2/25/2013 10:02:57 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 2/25/2013 9:54:11 AM, Pennington wrote:
At 2/25/2013 9:37:46 AM, drafterman wrote:
Science confirms no such thing and, in fact, explicitly denies this in the sense that the Earth came billions of years after any hypothetical "beginning.":

Well any Christian must admit that time to God and humans are far different and time maybe much longer. Even if God was talking an galatical day or God day in the creation science still affirms that Time began, Matter must exist and space does exist. Science doesn't affirm God of course and Him actually creating it. It affirms what is described being made.

Show me a reference.

http://www.icr.org...

"As far as matter is concerned, however, they are still at a loss as to what to believe about that."

Thank you for proving my point.:

Do you or do you not have the answer for how and where matter came from?

Nope. It's unknown. Meaning it neither confirms nor contradicts genesis.

If that makes you feel good then, ok.

And if it doesn't?:
Then find feel good.
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drafterman
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2/26/2013 8:50:35 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/26/2013 8:31:49 AM, Pennington wrote:
At 2/26/2013 8:28:59 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 2/26/2013 8:27:02 AM, Pennington wrote:
At 2/25/2013 8:20:30 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 2/25/2013 8:07:02 PM, Pennington wrote:
At 2/25/2013 11:11:23 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 2/25/2013 10:26:04 AM, Pennington wrote:
At 2/25/2013 10:02:57 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 2/25/2013 9:54:11 AM, Pennington wrote:
At 2/25/2013 9:37:46 AM, drafterman wrote:
Science confirms no such thing and, in fact, explicitly denies this in the sense that the Earth came billions of years after any hypothetical "beginning.":

Well any Christian must admit that time to God and humans are far different and time maybe much longer. Even if God was talking an galatical day or God day in the creation science still affirms that Time began, Matter must exist and space does exist. Science doesn't affirm God of course and Him actually creating it. It affirms what is described being made.

Show me a reference.

http://www.icr.org...

"As far as matter is concerned, however, they are still at a loss as to what to believe about that."

Thank you for proving my point.:

Do you or do you not have the answer for how and where matter came from?

Nope. It's unknown. Meaning it neither confirms nor contradicts genesis.

If that makes you feel good then, ok.

And if it doesn't?:
Then find feel good.

Sorry, but I'm interested in believing what is true, not what makes me feel good. But thanks for basically admitting that religion is little more than an emotional crutch.
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2/26/2013 9:18:23 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/26/2013 8:50:35 AM, drafterman wrote:
And if it doesn't?:
Then find feel good.

Sorry, but I'm interested in believing what is true, not what makes me feel good. But thanks for basically admitting that religion is little more than an emotional crutch.:

Nice on how to act like us discussing your emotional feelings transferring them into them being mine. God makes me feel good but He also makes me feel ashamed. I get love and comfort from God knowing and believing truth. I get ashamed and humiliation because I fail all the time doing what I know I shouldn't do. I have no crutch other than not always living up to my faith. You have deep mental crutches that are clear. You decide to argue at a stance that is unwinnable but you and others like you think you win. You rely on limited human knowledge. You take on the faith and belief that human knowledge is the only knowledge. You think humans are capable of understanding everything. You simply refuse scenarios that have certain percentages of being true. I accept portions of scenarios that could be true. Any person that refuses a scenario whole-heartily that has considerable truth possibility is using a huge crutch.
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drafterman
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2/26/2013 10:12:01 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/26/2013 9:18:23 AM, Pennington wrote:
At 2/26/2013 8:50:35 AM, drafterman wrote:
And if it doesn't?:
Then find feel good.

Sorry, but I'm interested in believing what is true, not what makes me feel good. But thanks for basically admitting that religion is little more than an emotional crutch.:

Nice on how to act like us discussing your emotional feelings transferring them into them being mine.

Well, I didn't. You are the one concerned about feeling good.

God makes me feel good but He also makes me feel ashamed. I get love and comfort from God knowing and believing truth. I get ashamed and humiliation because I fail all the time doing what I know I shouldn't do. I have no crutch other than not always living up to my faith. You have deep mental crutches that are clear.

For example?

You decide to argue at a stance that is unwinnable but you and others like you think you win. You rely on limited human knowledge. You take on the faith and belief that human knowledge is the only knowledge. You think humans are capable of understanding everything.

Yes, yes I do. I have faith in humanity because, well, humanity is all there is. There is no knowledge accessible to us other than human knowledge. I don't think we are necessarily capable of understanding everything, but the only things we will ever understand are the things we make an effort to investigate honestly.

You simply refuse scenarios that have certain percentages of being true. I accept portions of scenarios that could be true. Any person that refuses a scenario whole-heartily that has considerable truth possibility is using a huge crutch.

I don't think you know what a "crutch" is, in this sense.
Pennington
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2/26/2013 10:56:19 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/26/2013 10:12:01 AM, drafterman wrote:
Well, I didn't. You are the one concerned about feeling good.:
GL in life then if feeling good about yourself is not important. In fact that is all there is. Are you happy about the things you have done and how you behave towards others? If you do not care about those things then that is sad.

God makes me feel good but He also makes me feel ashamed. I get love and comfort from God knowing and believing truth. I get ashamed and humiliation because I fail all the time doing what I know I shouldn't do. I have no crutch other than not always living up to my faith. You have deep mental crutches that are clear.

For example?:
That crutch holds you from understanding.

You decide to argue at a stance that is unwinnable but you and others like you think you win. You rely on limited human knowledge. You take on the faith and belief that human knowledge is the only knowledge. You think humans are capable of understanding everything.

Yes, yes I do. I have faith in humanity because, well, humanity is all there is.:
No it isn't. Hence your crutch.
There is no knowledge accessible to us other than human knowledge.:
Yes there is. Hence again, your crutch.
I don't think we are necessarily capable of understanding everything, but the only things we will ever understand are the things we make an effort to investigate honestly.:
Indeed.

You simply refuse scenarios that have certain percentages of being true. I accept portions of scenarios that could be true. Any person that refuses a scenario whole-heartily that has considerable truth possibility is using a huge crutch.

I don't think you know what a "crutch" is, in this sense.:
I know what a crutch is and your major one here is condescending refusal of scenarios that you can neither disprove or guarantee falsehood.
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