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Define 'FAITH'

Dogknox
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2/26/2013 4:14:34 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/26/2013 4:02:26 PM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
Go!
GarretKadeDupre simply :Faith is >"BELIEVING"< the scriptures!
Most people read "Whoever believes in Jesus will have eternal life" John 3:16 so then they say.. "OKAY that's it; I officially believe in Jesus I am now saved"!

Then they turn around and reject a few chapters later ... John 6:54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.
These people do NOT have faith, these people in truth "REJECT JESUS"!

GarretKadeDupre If you believed the scriptures, you would "LOVE others to have ETERNAL life"!
25 On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. "Teacher," he asked, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?"
26 "What is written in the Law?" he replied. "How do you read it?"
27 He answered, ""Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind"; and, "Love your neighbor as yourself.""
28 "You have answered correctly," Jesus replied. "Do this and you will live."
29 But he wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, "And who is my neighbor?"


People without FAITH say "Jesus LIED" they say (verse #28) the man did NOT answer correctly!

Dogknox
popculturepooka
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2/26/2013 6:32:13 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Following Eric Reitan I say faith is putting your trust in and living as if the ethico-religious hope is fulfilled.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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2/26/2013 6:47:21 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/26/2013 4:02:26 PM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
Go!

If only there was some book you could reference that told you the definitions of words.

If only.
Polaris
Posts: 1,120
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2/26/2013 6:57:04 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
In defining faith, I look at how it differs in it's method of discerning the veracity of some statement from other epistemological approaches. I would define Faith, thusly:

Faith: Immutable conviction or belief.
Dogknox
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2/27/2013 9:07:29 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/26/2013 4:02:26 PM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
Go!
I add an example... "I BELIEVE the sun will rise tomorrow"! This is FAITH until it does rise tomorrow! After it rises, it is not faith anymore it becomes FACT! There is good evidence to make me have faith "the sun will rise tomorrow"!

"I BELIEVE Jesus is God"! There is good evidence to make me have faith in Jesus!
"I BELIEVE in the resurrection"! There is good evidence to make me have faith in the resurrection!

Dogknox
Cinco
Posts: 63
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2/27/2013 9:53:07 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/26/2013 6:47:21 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 2/26/2013 4:02:26 PM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
Go!

If only there was some book you could reference that told you the definitions of words.

If only.

Shhhh! To many, such a book is but a myth. I, however, actually possess many such books - though I keep them hidden, for obvious reasons. As I assume you do, as well, as you poured it on a little thick, in the "yearning" department. But perhaps no one else has noticed.)

I ascribe to OED's definition: #1.
If your time, to you,
Is worth savin',
Then you better start swimmin'
Or you'll sink like a stone.
For the times they are a-changin'. - Bob Dylan
Dogknox
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2/27/2013 2:44:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/27/2013 9:54:18 AM, dylancatlow wrote:
Faith = belief without justification and reason.

I reply:
"I BELIEVE the sun will rise tomorrow"! This is FAITH until it does rise tomorrow it remains FAITH! After it rises, it is not faith anymore it becomes FACT!

There is good evidence to make me have faith that "the sun will rise tomorrow"! Faith is reasonable, the sun rose yesterday!
1Devilsadvocate
Posts: 1,518
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2/27/2013 3:33:00 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Faith - Rational based trust
I cannot write in English, because of the treacherous spelling. When I am reading, I only hear it and am unable to remember what the written word looks like."
"Albert Einstein

http://www.twainquotes.com... , http://thewritecorner.wordpress.com... , http://www.onlinecollegecourses.com...
Polaris
Posts: 1,120
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2/27/2013 7:08:35 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/27/2013 3:33:00 PM, 1Devilsadvocate wrote:
Faith - Rational based trust

Using this definition, even I have faith (as I have reasonable trust in many things), however this would exclude many things traditionally defined by faith; of particular note, Divine Inspiration (The basis of all organized religions) would be excluded by your definition of faith. Which is perhaps where you and I part ways.
1Devilsadvocate
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2/28/2013 1:07:09 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/27/2013 7:08:35 PM, Polaris wrote:
At 2/27/2013 3:33:00 PM, 1Devilsadvocate wrote:
Faith - Rational based trust

Using this definition, even I have faith (as I have reasonable trust in many things), however this would exclude many things traditionally defined by faith; of particular note, Divine Inspiration (The basis of all organized religions) would be excluded by your definition of faith. Which is perhaps where you and I part ways.

1 of the biggest misconceptions about the concept of "faith", is that it is inherently blind & baseless. This very idea is in fact baseless.

I define it as "Rational based trust" to counter this misconception.

"Faith is confidence or trust in a person or thing, or a deity or in the doctrines or teachings of a religion... The word faith is often used as a substitute for hope, trust or belief." http://en.wikipedia.org...

merriam webster:
Belief and trust in and loyalty to God, belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion

If the word "faith" in the English language does technically connotate blindness or baseless, it is a mistranslation.

Faith is a translation of a translation of a translation. The precise meaning may have gotten lost along the way (changes in culture are also a factor). But I believe that "rational based trust" is aprox. what god wants. Call if Faith, fides, pisti, pistis, or pistevo. If you want to get close to the true meaning, you have to go back to Gods language, Ancient Hebrew. The word in Hebrew is emu-nah (similar to the familiar term amen, which Jews pronounce amaine or umaine).

Hebrew: emunah sometimes translated as faithfullness or loyalty.
"...The definition of emunah " related to word ne'eman " is "loyalty", or "faithfulness" to G-d and to the sacred principles of our faith practiced by the Jewish people throughout the ages.
It is not a blind "leap of faith" in something that has no basis..."
http://www.torah.org...

For more detailed analysis of the word/concept, see these links:
http://www.egrc.net...
http://www.myjewishlearning.com...
http://www.ancient-hebrew.org...
http://en.wikipedia.org...

However, it is not clear that when christians speak of "faith", they mean the exact same thing as what the Jews mean by emunah. I.E. they are slightly different concepts. In which case it would be necessarily to look into the origional greek & latin terms from which the term faith was translated.

Greek: pist - pisti, pistis, or pistevo.
Simply translated as; trust, confidence, belief, loyalty, allegiance, or conviction.
http://www.truthortradition.com...
http://www.tracts.com...
http://www.helleniccomserve.com...

Latin - fides
""FIDES" is often (and wrongly) translated 'faith', but it has nothing to do with the word..."
http://www.csun.edu...

simple, breif, & basic description about how the mistranslation occered:
http://www.rogershermansociety.org...

General:
http://plato.stanford.edu...
http://en.wikipedia.org...
http://en.wikipedia.org...
http://www.newadvent.org...
http://www.christianforums.com...

In conclusion, faith, is not necessarily blind or baseless. & if the definition of faith connotes such, it's a mistranslation.
So either way...

KRfourier debates on faith:
http://www.debate.org... To use faith as your reasoning for one specific god is irrational
http://www.debate.org...
All knowledge is founded on faith.
http://www.debate.org...
All knowledge is founded on faith 2
I cannot write in English, because of the treacherous spelling. When I am reading, I only hear it and am unable to remember what the written word looks like."
"Albert Einstein

http://www.twainquotes.com... , http://thewritecorner.wordpress.com... , http://www.onlinecollegecourses.com...
Polaris
Posts: 1,120
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2/28/2013 1:28:35 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/28/2013 1:07:09 AM, 1Devilsadvocate wrote:
At 2/27/2013 7:08:35 PM, Polaris wrote:
At 2/27/2013 3:33:00 PM, 1Devilsadvocate wrote:
Faith - Rational based trust

Using this definition, even I have faith (as I have reasonable trust in many things), however this would exclude many things traditionally defined by faith; of particular note, Divine Inspiration (The basis of all organized religions) would be excluded by your definition of faith. Which is perhaps where you and I part ways.


1 of the biggest misconceptions about the concept of "faith", is that it is inherently blind & baseless. This very idea is in fact baseless.

I define it as "Rational based trust" to counter this misconception.

"Faith is confidence or trust in a person or thing, or a deity or in the doctrines or teachings of a religion... The word faith is often used as a substitute for hope, trust or belief." http://en.wikipedia.org...

merriam webster:
Belief and trust in and loyalty to God, belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion

If the word "faith" in the English language does technically connotate blindness or baseless, it is a mistranslation.

Faith is a translation of a translation of a translation. The precise meaning may have gotten lost along the way (changes in culture are also a factor). But I believe that "rational based trust" is aprox. what god wants. Call if Faith, fides, pisti, pistis, or pistevo. If you want to get close to the true meaning, you have to go back to Gods language, Ancient Hebrew. The word in Hebrew is emu-nah (similar to the familiar term amen, which Jews pronounce amaine or umaine).

Hebrew: emunah sometimes translated as faithfullness or loyalty.
"...The definition of emunah " related to word ne'eman " is "loyalty", or "faithfulness" to G-d and to the sacred principles of our faith practiced by the Jewish people throughout the ages.
It is not a blind "leap of faith" in something that has no basis..."
http://www.torah.org...

For more detailed analysis of the word/concept, see these links:
http://www.egrc.net...
http://www.myjewishlearning.com...
http://www.ancient-hebrew.org...
http://en.wikipedia.org...

However, it is not clear that when christians speak of "faith", they mean the exact same thing as what the Jews mean by emunah. I.E. they are slightly different concepts. In which case it would be necessarily to look into the origional greek & latin terms from which the term faith was translated.

Greek: pist - pisti, pistis, or pistevo.
Simply translated as; trust, confidence, belief, loyalty, allegiance, or conviction.
http://www.truthortradition.com...
http://www.tracts.com...
http://www.helleniccomserve.com...

Latin - fides
""FIDES" is often (and wrongly) translated 'faith', but it has nothing to do with the word..."
http://www.csun.edu...

simple, breif, & basic description about how the mistranslation occered:
http://www.rogershermansociety.org...

General:
http://plato.stanford.edu...
http://en.wikipedia.org...
http://en.wikipedia.org...
http://www.newadvent.org...
http://www.christianforums.com...


In conclusion, faith, is not necessarily blind or baseless. & if the definition of faith connotes such, it's a mistranslation.
So either way...

KRfourier debates on faith:
http://www.debate.org... To use faith as your reasoning for one specific god is irrational
http://www.debate.org...
All knowledge is founded on faith.
http://www.debate.org...
All knowledge is founded on faith 2

What does any of this have to do with what I just posted?
1Devilsadvocate
Posts: 1,518
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2/28/2013 2:17:21 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/28/2013 1:28:35 AM, Polaris wrote:
At 2/28/2013 1:07:09 AM, 1Devilsadvocate wrote:
At 2/27/2013 7:08:35 PM, Polaris wrote:
At 2/27/2013 3:33:00 PM, 1Devilsadvocate wrote:
Faith - Rational based trust

Using this definition, even I have faith (as I have reasonable trust in many things), however this would exclude many things traditionally defined by faith; of particular note, Divine Inspiration (The basis of all organized religions) would be excluded by your definition of faith. Which is perhaps where you and I part ways.


1 of the biggest misconceptions about the concept of "faith", is that it is inherently blind & baseless. This very idea is in fact baseless.

I define it as "Rational based trust" to counter this misconception.

"Faith is confidence or trust in a person or thing, or a deity or in the doctrines or teachings of a religion... The word faith is often used as a substitute for hope, trust or belief." http://en.wikipedia.org...

merriam webster:
Belief and trust in and loyalty to God, belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion

If the word "faith" in the English language does technically connotate blindness or baseless, it is a mistranslation.

Faith is a translation of a translation of a translation. The precise meaning may have gotten lost along the way (changes in culture are also a factor). But I believe that "rational based trust" is aprox. what god wants. Call if Faith, fides, pisti, pistis, or pistevo. If you want to get close to the true meaning, you have to go back to Gods language, Ancient Hebrew. The word in Hebrew is emu-nah (similar to the familiar term amen, which Jews pronounce amaine or umaine).

Hebrew: emunah sometimes translated as faithfullness or loyalty.
"...The definition of emunah " related to word ne'eman " is "loyalty", or "faithfulness" to G-d and to the sacred principles of our faith practiced by the Jewish people throughout the ages.
It is not a blind "leap of faith" in something that has no basis..."
http://www.torah.org...

For more detailed analysis of the word/concept, see these links:
http://www.egrc.net...
http://www.myjewishlearning.com...
http://www.ancient-hebrew.org...
http://en.wikipedia.org...

However, it is not clear that when christians speak of "faith", they mean the exact same thing as what the Jews mean by emunah. I.E. they are slightly different concepts. In which case it would be necessarily to look into the origional greek & latin terms from which the term faith was translated.

Greek: pist - pisti, pistis, or pistevo.
Simply translated as; trust, confidence, belief, loyalty, allegiance, or conviction.
http://www.truthortradition.com...
http://www.tracts.com...
http://www.helleniccomserve.com...

Latin - fides
""FIDES" is often (and wrongly) translated 'faith', but it has nothing to do with the word..."
http://www.csun.edu...

simple, breif, & basic description about how the mistranslation occered:
http://www.rogershermansociety.org...

General:
http://plato.stanford.edu...
http://en.wikipedia.org...
http://en.wikipedia.org...
http://www.newadvent.org...
http://www.christianforums.com...


In conclusion, faith, is not necessarily blind or baseless. & if the definition of faith connotes such, it's a mistranslation.
So either way...

KRfourier debates on faith:
http://www.debate.org... To use faith as your reasoning for one specific god is irrational
http://www.debate.org...
All knowledge is founded on faith.
http://www.debate.org...
All knowledge is founded on faith 2


What does any of this have to do with what I just posted?

Sorry, I didn't directly address your point. Perhaps this should have been a continuation of my 1st post.

Getting back to what you said, why can't Divine Inspiration fit in with my definition?
I cannot write in English, because of the treacherous spelling. When I am reading, I only hear it and am unable to remember what the written word looks like."
"Albert Einstein

http://www.twainquotes.com... , http://thewritecorner.wordpress.com... , http://www.onlinecollegecourses.com...
Polaris
Posts: 1,120
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2/28/2013 8:21:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/28/2013 2:17:21 AM, 1Devilsadvocate wrote:
Getting back to what you said, why can't Divine Inspiration fit in with my definition?

Because Divine Inspiration is not that which can be deduced by the apprehension of logic, but it's also of such nature that evidence is not possible. For this reason it is sometimes cited as the principle example of Faith. It is trust that the person professing Divine Inspiration is being truthful and accurate.
DakotaKrafick
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2/28/2013 8:53:24 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/28/2013 8:21:54 PM, Polaris wrote:
At 2/28/2013 2:17:21 AM, 1Devilsadvocate wrote:
Getting back to what you said, why can't Divine Inspiration fit in with my definition?

Because Divine Inspiration is not that which can be deduced by the apprehension of logic, but it's also of such nature that evidence is not possible. For this reason it is sometimes cited as the principle example of Faith. It is trust that the person professing Divine Inspiration is being truthful and accurate.

When you first made your comment about divine inspiration, I thought you were referring to the one who was divinely inspired when you said it wouldn't count as evidence, not the people he might hypothetically try to convince. That might be where 1Deviladvocate's confusion lies also.
Polaris
Posts: 1,120
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2/28/2013 11:01:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/28/2013 8:53:24 PM, DakotaKrafick wrote:
At 2/28/2013 8:21:54 PM, Polaris wrote:
At 2/28/2013 2:17:21 AM, 1Devilsadvocate wrote:
Getting back to what you said, why can't Divine Inspiration fit in with my definition?

Because Divine Inspiration is not that which can be deduced by the apprehension of logic, but it's also of such nature that evidence is not possible. For this reason it is sometimes cited as the principle example of Faith. It is trust that the person professing Divine Inspiration is being truthful and accurate.

When you first made your comment about divine inspiration, I thought you were referring to the one who was divinely inspired when you said it wouldn't count as evidence, not the people he might hypothetically try to convince. That might be where 1Deviladvocate's confusion lies also.

You are quite right. It was Thomas Paine that said:

"Revelation, when applied to religion, means something communicated immediately from God to man.

No one will deny or dispute the power of the Almighty to make such a communication, if he pleases. But admitting, for the sake of a case, that something has been revealed to a certain person, and not revealed to any other person, it is revelation to that person only. When he tells it to a second person, a second to a third, a third to a fourth, and so on, it ceases to be a revelation to all those persons. It is revelation to the first person only, and hearsay to every other, and consequently they are not obliged to believe it."
1Devilsadvocate
Posts: 1,518
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3/1/2013 1:55:51 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/28/2013 8:53:24 PM, DakotaKrafick wrote:
At 2/28/2013 8:21:54 PM, Polaris wrote:
At 2/28/2013 2:17:21 AM, 1Devilsadvocate wrote:
Getting back to what you said, why can't Divine Inspiration fit in with my definition?

Because Divine Inspiration is not that which can be deduced by the apprehension of logic, but it's also of such nature that evidence is not possible. For this reason it is sometimes cited as the principle example of Faith. It is trust that the person professing Divine Inspiration is being truthful and accurate.

When you first made your comment about divine inspiration, I thought you were referring to the one who was divinely inspired when you said it wouldn't count as evidence, not the people he might hypothetically try to convince. That might be where 1Deviladvocate's confusion lies also.

Yeah, that is how I was understanding it.
Now I have to think about this a bit.
What exactly is this concept of "divine inspiration"?
Is it "The basis of all organized religions" as it was called?
What classifies something as rational?
Perhaps I'll have to modify my definition a little. Particularly the word rational. I was using it to counter the idea that faith is blind / basless. Which is my main point, & I maintain that it is true. But perhaps "rational based trust" has the wrong connotation.
Can anything that is not irrational, be called rational?

My main point is that what we call "faith", is really more accurate; trust, belief, conviction, faithfulness, loyalty, confidence, etc. Things that are a part of every humans everyday life, & not some special irrational way of thinking.
I cannot write in English, because of the treacherous spelling. When I am reading, I only hear it and am unable to remember what the written word looks like."
"Albert Einstein

http://www.twainquotes.com... , http://thewritecorner.wordpress.com... , http://www.onlinecollegecourses.com...
1Devilsadvocate
Posts: 1,518
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3/1/2013 1:58:44 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/1/2013 1:55:51 AM, 1Devilsadvocate wrote:
At 2/28/2013 8:53:24 PM, DakotaKrafick wrote:
At 2/28/2013 8:21:54 PM, Polaris wrote:
At 2/28/2013 2:17:21 AM, 1Devilsadvocate wrote:
Getting back to what you said, why can't Divine Inspiration fit in with my definition?

Because Divine Inspiration is not that which can be deduced by the apprehension of logic, but it's also of such nature that evidence is not possible. For this reason it is sometimes cited as the principle example of Faith. It is trust that the person professing Divine Inspiration is being truthful and accurate.

When you first made your comment about divine inspiration, I thought you were referring to the one who was divinely inspired when you said it wouldn't count as evidence, not the people he might hypothetically try to convince. That might be where 1Deviladvocate's confusion lies also.

Yeah, that is how I was understanding it.
Now I have to think about this a bit.
What exactly is this concept of "divine inspiration"?
Is it "The basis of all organized religions" as it was called?
What classifies something as rational?
Perhaps I'll have to modify my definition a little. Particularly the word rational. I was using it to counter the idea that faith is blind / baseless. Which is my main point, & I maintain that it is true. But perhaps "rational based trust" has the wrong connotation.
Can anything that is not irrational, be called rational?

My main point is that what we call "faith", is, to be more accurate,; trust, belief, conviction, faithfulness, loyalty, confidence, etc. Things that are a part of every humans everyday life, & not some special irrational way of thinking.

fix'd
I cannot write in English, because of the treacherous spelling. When I am reading, I only hear it and am unable to remember what the written word looks like."
"Albert Einstein

http://www.twainquotes.com... , http://thewritecorner.wordpress.com... , http://www.onlinecollegecourses.com...
Apeiron
Posts: 2,446
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3/1/2013 2:23:44 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/26/2013 4:02:26 PM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
Go!

Good Q,

There's always been a problem of skepticism ever since the greek skeptics. Plato had a good answer but it was still implausible. Now refuting skepticism adopts a BoP, but rebutting skepticism places the BoP on the skeptic, and is the far better option. Thankfully, rebutting skepticism is at home has been at home in the Judeo-Christian Faith long before the skeptics in Athens. By the time of Aquinas, Faith has been articulated thusly:

Whenever a Christian is talking about faith and it's benefits in life, there are altogether three types of faith she's referring to. The first faith is that God created us with good, properly functioning cognitive faculties so that we can ultimately have knowledge of our creator. This then is a reasonable faith, since it grounds our reasoning and the laws of logic in a reliable way. At least more so than that of naturalism, where the naturalist would have to owe us an account of properly functioning noetics without a designer. This has yet to be done.

The second faith stems from the first faith in that we have trust that our experience of God is true for the person who really experiences him. This faith also confirms scripture, morality, the external world, the ability to have knowledge of ourselves, etc.

Finally, the third faith simply trusts that God will fulfill his promises that he spoke of through his personal witness to us and in scripture. This is the common, "man on the street" usage of the term faith, but all three are a type of faith.

Ultimately everyone must have faith, it just boils down to how reliable their ground is.

"Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash."

-Jesus Christ of Nazareth, Mat.7:25