Total Posts:15|Showing Posts:1-15
Jump to topic:

God doesn't want everyone to be saved!

Angry_Bird
Posts: 64
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/5/2013 10:58:37 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
According to the bible God doesn't want everyone saved, there isn't one passage where we read that he loves everyone, and please don't quote..
John 3:16 "For God so loved (Aorist,Active,Indicative - at an aorist point in time) the world ("kosmos", the "world" points to the "world" of those who are"presently believing, in this context), that he gave (Aorist,Active,Indicative) his only begotten Son, (the "point in time" of the Cross) that whosoever believeth (Present Active - is presently believing) in him should not perish, but have everlasting life".
pozessed
Posts: 1,034
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/5/2013 11:13:58 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Psalm 33:5
The Lord loves righteousness and justice; the earth is full of his unfailing love.

1 John 4:7
[ God"s Love and Ours ] Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God.

1 Corinthians 8:3
But whoever loves God is known by God.

Galatians 4:8-10
8 Formerly, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those who by nature are not gods. 9 But now that you know God"or rather are known by God"how is it that you are turning back to those weak and miserable forces[a]? Do you wish to be enslaved by them all over again? 10 You are observing special days and months and seasons and years!

I don't usually quote scripture, but sounded fun.
Dogknox
Posts: 5,039
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/5/2013 2:51:44 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
2 Corinthians 5:14
For Christ"s love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died.

One died for ALL

2 Corinthians 5:15
And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again.

He died for ALL
Paradox_7
Posts: 1,870
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/5/2013 8:41:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/5/2013 2:51:44 PM, Dogknox wrote:

John 17:9
9 I ask on their behalf; I do not ask on behalf of the world, but of those whom You have given Me; for they are Yours;

John 10:26-28
26 But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep. 27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.

If Christ died for the world, that is, everyone human being, then why does he only pray for some? And, why do only some believe him, instead of all?

Are some people more sinful than others? Do you have the cajones to say that you believe because you are more righteous then those who do not believe?
: At 10/23/2012 8:06:03 PM, tvellalott wrote:
: Don't be. The Catholic Church is ran by Darth Sidius for fvck sake. As far as I'm concerned, you're a bona fide member of the Sith.
Paradox_7
Posts: 1,870
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/5/2013 8:46:07 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I do believe that God desires for all people to be saved, though.

It says it very clearly in scripture that he wishes all men to be saved(1 Tim. 2:4), but he also wishes none would sin.

Though he desires such a thing, he still predestined some vessel for wrath, and others for glory.
: At 10/23/2012 8:06:03 PM, tvellalott wrote:
: Don't be. The Catholic Church is ran by Darth Sidius for fvck sake. As far as I'm concerned, you're a bona fide member of the Sith.
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/5/2013 9:25:36 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/5/2013 8:46:07 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
I do believe that God desires for all people to be saved, though.

It says it very clearly in scripture that he wishes all men to be saved(1 Tim. 2:4), but he also wishes none would sin.

Though he desires such a thing, he still predestined some vessel for wrath, and others for glory.

Uh...you're a Calvinist.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
annanicole
Posts: 19,782
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/5/2013 9:34:48 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/5/2013 10:58:37 AM, Angry_Bird wrote:
According to the bible God doesn't want everyone saved, there isn't one passage where we read that he loves everyone, and please don't quote..
John 3:16 "For God so loved (Aorist,Active,Indicative - at an aorist point in time) the world ("kosmos", the "world" points to the "world" of those who are"presently believing, in this context), that he gave (Aorist,Active,Indicative) his only begotten Son, (the "point in time" of the Cross) that whosoever believeth (Present Active - is presently believing) in him should not perish, but have everlasting life".

Well, the way you quote the passage (your grammar is fine, but your explanations lacking), "God so (extent) loved (aorist) the world" - then you say the "world" refers, not to the past or future world, but at merely that instant in time of those presently believing. Since the grand OT characters were saved by the shedding of Christ's blood, God so loved the world of the past as well as the present. If kosmos refers to the world of the past, it can just as easily refer to the world of the future - or else the cross was effectual for the entire world only at the time Christ died.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Angry_Bird
Posts: 64
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/6/2013 12:08:07 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/5/2013 2:51:44 PM, Dogknox wrote:
2 Corinthians 5:14
For Christ"s love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died.

One died for ALL

2 Corinthians 5:15
And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again.

He died for ALL

All = PAS, = all kinds, sorts, types, NOT Hapas = absolute
Angry_Bird
Posts: 64
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/6/2013 11:28:54 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/5/2013 9:25:36 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 3/5/2013 8:46:07 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
I do believe that God desires for all people to be saved, though.

It says it very clearly in scripture that he wishes all men to be saved(1 Tim. 2:4), but he also wishes none would sin.

Though he desires such a thing, he still predestined some vessel for wrath, and others for glory.

Uh...you're a Calvinist.

Mt 3:5 Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all <3956> Judaea, and all <3956> the region round about Jordan, (100%, Really?)Mt 8:34 And, behold, the whole <3956> city came out to meet Jesus: and when they saw him, they besought him that he would depart out of their coasts (100%, Really?)Mt 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all <3956> men for my name"s sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved. (100% all men hate the Jews?)Mt 12:23 And all <3956> the people were amazed, and said, Is not this the son of David? (100%, Really?)Mt 19:26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things <3956> are possible. ("all kinds of things" - can God lie? Can He change the plan He has decreed?)Mt 21:10 And when he was come into Jerusalem, all <3956> the city was moved, saying, Who is this? ("ALL the city"?)Mt 21:26 But if we shall say, Of men; we fear the people; for all <3956> hold John as a prophet. (Did 100% of "all" the people think John was a prophet?)Mr 1:37 And when they had found him, they said unto him, All <3956> men seek for thee. (100%, Really?)Mr 13:13 And ye shall be hated of all <3956> men for my name"s sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. (100% of the people in the world hate the Jews?)Mr 14:36 And he said, Abba, Father, all things <3956> are possible unto thee; take away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt. (100% "all" things? Again, God cannot lie. There are many, many things that God's character will not allow Him to do.)Lu 2:31 Which thou hast prepared before the face of all <3956> people; ("all" people where? Can't be every human being)
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/6/2013 2:06:46 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/6/2013 11:28:54 AM, Angry_Bird wrote:
At 3/5/2013 9:25:36 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 3/5/2013 8:46:07 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
I do believe that God desires for all people to be saved, though.

It says it very clearly in scripture that he wishes all men to be saved(1 Tim. 2:4), but he also wishes none would sin.

Though he desires such a thing, he still predestined some vessel for wrath, and others for glory.

Uh...you're a Calvinist.

Mt 3:5 Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all <3956> Judaea, and all <3956> the region round about Jordan, (100%, Really?)Mt 8:34 And, behold, the whole <3956> city came out to meet Jesus: and when they saw him, they besought him that he would depart out of their coasts (100%, Really?)Mt 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all <3956> men for my name"s sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved. (100% all men hate the Jews?)Mt 12:23 And all <3956> the people were amazed, and said, Is not this the son of David? (100%, Really?)Mt 19:26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things <3956> are possible. ("all kinds of things" - can God lie? Can He change the plan He has decreed?)Mt 21:10 And when he was come into Jerusalem, all <3956> the city was moved, saying, Who is this? ("ALL the city"?)Mt 21:26 But if we shall say, Of men; we fear the people; for all <3956> hold John as a prophet. (Did 100% of "all" the people think John was a prophet?)Mr 1:37 And when they had found him, they said unto him, All <3956> men seek for thee. (100%, Really?)Mr 13:13 And ye shall be hated of all <3956> men for my name"s sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. (100% of the people in the world hate the Jews?)Mr 14:36 And he said, Abba, Father, all things <3956> are possible unto thee; take away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt. (100% "all" things? Again, God cannot lie. There are many, many things that God's character will not allow Him to do.)Lu 2:31 Which thou hast prepared before the face of all <3956> people; ("all" people where? Can't be every human being)

Ok? What's your argument here? Best as I can tel you're vaguely gesturing to something like this: some instances of "all" in the bible don't range the scope of all people therefore a) all all texts don't or b) the texts appealed to to make the case that God wants to save everyone don't. But that's clearly a non-sequitur... the context determines the scope.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
annanicole
Posts: 19,782
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/6/2013 2:44:07 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/6/2013 11:28:54 AM, Angry_Bird wrote:
At 3/5/2013 9:25:36 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 3/5/2013 8:46:07 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
I do believe that God desires for all people to be saved, though.

It says it very clearly in scripture that he wishes all men to be saved(1 Tim. 2:4), but he also wishes none would sin.

Though he desires such a thing, he still predestined some vessel for wrath, and others for glory.

Uh...you're a Calvinist.

Mt 3:5 Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all <3956> Judaea, and all <3956> the region round about Jordan, (100%, Really?)Mt 8:34 And, behold, the whole <3956> city came out to meet Jesus: and when they saw him, they besought him that he would depart out of their coasts (100%, Really?)Mt 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all <3956> men for my name"s sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved. (100% all men hate the Jews?)Mt 12:23 And all <3956> the people were amazed, and said, Is not this the son of David? (100%, Really?)Mt 19:26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things <3956> are possible. ("all kinds of things" - can God lie? Can He change the plan He has decreed?)Mt 21:10 And when he was come into Jerusalem, all <3956> the city was moved, saying, Who is this? ("ALL the city"?)Mt 21:26 But if we shall say, Of men; we fear the people; for all <3956> hold John as a prophet. (Did 100% of "all" the people think John was a prophet?)Mr 1:37 And when they had found him, they said unto him, All <3956> men seek for thee. (100%, Really?)Mr 13:13 And ye shall be hated of all <3956> men for my name"s sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. (100% of the people in the world hate the Jews?)Mr 14:36 And he said, Abba, Father, all things <3956> are possible unto thee; take away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt. (100% "all" things? Again, God cannot lie. There are many, many things that God's character will not allow Him to do.)Lu 2:31 Which thou hast prepared before the face of all <3956> people; ("all" people where? Can't be every human being)

The Greek pas and its derivatives frequently do not mean the entirety as in 100%. The root is often used in the relative sense; however, it is best translated "all" or "every one" for brevity's sake with the realization that the usage may not indicate 100%. Hence, the phrase that Christ died for all men may or may not mean 100%, every man individually. As far as 100% versus something less than 100%, that determination would be made by context; however, there is no way, however, to twist pas into meaning only a few. Pas either means 100% or, when employed in the relative sense, the vast majority.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
AlbinoBunny
Posts: 3,781
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/6/2013 2:55:20 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
"Mark 9:43

And if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than with two hands to go to hell, to the unquenchable fire."

He'd rather you were crippled, maybe.
bladerunner060 | bsh1 , 2014! Presidency campaign!

http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org... - Running for president.
http://www.debate.org... - Running as his vice president.

May the best man win!
Angry_Bird
Posts: 64
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/6/2013 3:56:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
The early church, for approximately 8 years, from Acts chapter 2 through chapter 10, was all converted Jews, as far as we know, and the Jewish Christians thought for those 8 years that only Jews were saved by the death of Jesus on the Cross. This is why God's Word uses "pas" to say "all types of men","Jew, Gentile, from every nation,"are commanded to repent. When it was time for the Gospel to be sent to the first Gentile, the Roman Centurion Cornelius, in Acts Chapter 10, God told the Apostle Peter, three times, to "eat the unclean animals", and Peter said "Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean." Peter had to be told "What God hath cleansed, (Gentiles) that call not thou common". It was a huge deal for the Jews to accept Gentiles into the Body of Christ - some 8 years after the Cross. This is why there are so many statements in the New Testament about salvation being for "All TYPES", and "all SORTS" of people, Jew and Gentile, male and female, rich and poor, educated and uneducated, etc.""2 Cor 5:14 Jesus died for ALL ("PAS", all TYPES OF) men."
annanicole
Posts: 19,782
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/6/2013 4:46:52 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
"and the Jewish Christians thought for those 8 years that only Jews were saved by the death of Jesus on the Cross."

I'm not so sure they "thought" it. I've wondered if deep-down they knew it, but their extreme prejudice blinded them - or, rather, they blinded themselves by fostering their hyperprejudice. Peter and the others should have known what "in thy seed, all nations shall be blessed" coupled with "for the promise is to you, your children and to those that are afar off" meant.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."