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sarcasm about religion is it offensive

critical_mind
Posts: 12
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3/6/2013 5:09:14 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
like taking something someone said and put it in an absurd content
stuff like
god loves us all but created hell for people how don't love him back
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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3/6/2013 5:48:56 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Sarcasm about some parts of some religion is justified if you wish to use it. Of course it's debatable when you are justified or not and clearly the New Atheist movement and such has brought about much unnecessary and ignorant hate talk. However, the traditional concept of hell is so contradictory to a loving God and so morally repungent that more than just rational argumentation is warranted if you wish to go down that path.
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logicrules
Posts: 1,721
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3/8/2013 7:15:23 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/6/2013 5:09:14 PM, critical_mind wrote:
like taking something someone said and put it in an absurd content
stuff like
god loves us all but created hell for people how don't love him back

So? Being offensive is a universal of critique.
vbaculum
Posts: 1,274
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3/8/2013 7:36:03 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/6/2013 5:48:56 PM, phantom wrote:
Sarcasm about some parts of some religion is justified if you wish to use it. Of course it's debatable when you are justified or not and clearly the New Atheist movement and such has brought about much unnecessary and ignorant hate talk.

Can you give an example?

However, the traditional concept of hell is so contradictory to a loving God and so morally repungent that more than just rational argumentation is warranted if you wish to go down that path.
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Heineken
Posts: 1,230
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3/8/2013 8:31:00 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/6/2013 6:06:43 PM, qopel wrote:
God is offensive to Atheists.

God is not God to Atheists. If anyone who doesn't believe in God is offended by God, then they have a very poor idea of Atheism.

Atheists are offended by religious ignorance.
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Heineken
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3/8/2013 8:32:14 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/8/2013 7:15:23 AM, logicrules wrote:
At 3/6/2013 5:09:14 PM, critical_mind wrote:
like taking something someone said and put it in an absurd content
stuff like
god loves us all but created hell for people how don't love him back

So? Being offensive is a universal of critique.

????What????
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logicrules
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3/8/2013 9:29:21 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/8/2013 8:32:14 AM, Heineken wrote:
At 3/8/2013 7:15:23 AM, logicrules wrote:
At 3/6/2013 5:09:14 PM, critical_mind wrote:
like taking something someone said and put it in an absurd content
stuff like
god loves us all but created hell for people how don't love him back

So? Being offensive is a universal of critique.

????What????

Offensive is a subjective, and critique offends someone somewhere.
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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3/8/2013 3:15:03 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/8/2013 7:36:03 AM, vbaculum wrote:
At 3/6/2013 5:48:56 PM, phantom wrote:
Sarcasm about some parts of some religion is justified if you wish to use it. Of course it's debatable when you are justified or not and clearly the New Atheist movement and such has brought about much unnecessary and ignorant hate talk.

Can you give an example?

There are many. Just go to youtube. For example, one top rated comment saying no intelligent theists exist. I think it's safe to say comments like that spring from the popularity of New Atheism especially on youtube.

However, the traditional concept of hell is so contradictory to a loving God and so morally repungent that more than just rational argumentation is warranted if you wish to go down that path.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
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3/8/2013 3:19:40 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/6/2013 6:06:43 PM, qopel wrote:
God is offensive to Atheists.

Just about as offensive as Thor, Zeus, and Isis are.
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Wallstreetatheist
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3/8/2013 3:20:57 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Cool quote:

"Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity. It is the mere Abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of Jesus." -Thomas Jefferson
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Citrakayah
Posts: 1,500
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3/8/2013 3:43:11 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/6/2013 6:06:43 PM, qopel wrote:
God is offensive to Atheists.

Depends on the deity, the interpretation of that deity, and xer attitude. I don't feel that offended by some interpretations of the Judeo-Christian deity (especially the more liberal and deist interpretations), and I'm an atheist.
vbaculum
Posts: 1,274
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3/9/2013 9:08:36 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/8/2013 3:15:03 PM, phantom wrote:
At 3/8/2013 7:36:03 AM, vbaculum wrote:
At 3/6/2013 5:48:56 PM, phantom wrote:
Sarcasm about some parts of some religion is justified if you wish to use it. Of course it's debatable when you are justified or not and clearly the New Atheist movement and such has brought about much unnecessary and ignorant hate talk.

Can you give an example?

There are many. Just go to youtube. For example, one top rated comment saying no intelligent theists exist. I think it's safe to say comments like that spring from the popularity of New Atheism especially on youtube.

That's not a hateful thing to say, though. It's also not a novel thing to say; it's been long observed that religious devotion is associated with simple-mindedness.

"New Atheism" is too nebulous a term about which concrete assertions, like yours, can be made. Nobody actually says they are a member of the "New Atheist" movement. It's a term invented by critics of a handful of modern atheist writers. None of these writers would say anything like "no intelligent theists exist"; it's too obvious and interesting that intelligent people, sometimes extremely intelligent people, are theists.


However, the traditional concept of hell is so contradictory to a loving God and so morally repungent that more than just rational argumentation is warranted if you wish to go down that path.
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sadolite
Posts: 8,836
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3/9/2013 9:14:33 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/6/2013 5:09:14 PM, critical_mind wrote:
like taking something someone said and put it in an absurd content
stuff like
god loves us all but created hell for people how don't love him back

Apperently not, except for Islam and Mohammad, then you better run and hide or you will be killed.

Lets turn this thread into jokes and sarcasm about Islam and Muhammad. The more vulgar and tasteless the better.
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phantom
Posts: 6,774
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3/9/2013 10:57:46 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/9/2013 9:08:36 PM, vbaculum wrote:
At 3/8/2013 3:15:03 PM, phantom wrote:
At 3/8/2013 7:36:03 AM, vbaculum wrote:
At 3/6/2013 5:48:56 PM, phantom wrote:
Sarcasm about some parts of some religion is justified if you wish to use it. Of course it's debatable when you are justified or not and clearly the New Atheist movement and such has brought about much unnecessary and ignorant hate talk.

Can you give an example?

There are many. Just go to youtube. For example, one top rated comment saying no intelligent theists exist. I think it's safe to say comments like that spring from the popularity of New Atheism especially on youtube.

That's not a hateful thing to say, though.

Perhaps "hateful" was an overstatement, but you get the point.

It's also not a novel thing to say; it's been long observed that religious devotion is associated with simple-mindedness.

It is true that the more simple-minded you are, the more likely you are to be religious, however that in no way implies that all religious people are simple minded and it is surely true that plenty of intelligent theists exist.

"New Atheism" is too nebulous a term about which concrete assertions, like yours, can be made. Nobody actually says they are a member of the "New Atheist" movement. It's a term invented by critics of a handful of modern atheist writers. None of these writers would say anything like "no intelligent theists exist"; it's too obvious and interesting that intelligent people, sometimes extremely intelligent people, are theists.

I said it's brought about by New Atheism not that it's an integral part of it. Youtube type atheists say things like that all the time and those types are usually massive fans of the figures associated with new atheism (Dawkins, Harris etc...). I would say it's brought about by the influence of the movement. However, I wouldn't be too sure to say that those writers wouldn't say things like that. Dawkins himself answers the question of why he only attacks unsophisticated theologians by saying "sophisticated theologians are oxymoronic". https://twitter.com...
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AlbinoBunny
Posts: 3,781
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3/10/2013 4:44:22 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/6/2013 5:09:14 PM, critical_mind wrote:
like taking something someone said and put it in an absurd content
stuff like
god loves us all but created hell for people how don't love him back

God loves us but created hell for people who don't love him back. Wait no, hell is a bi-product of being away from God, very painful, but God can't help you. He gave his word that all souls are eternal, and can't break his own word. Plus if you don't love God then you're evil and deserve to go to hell. Wait, he has tried to save us, but we keep creating more sin for ourselves.

But if you think that sounds immoral then don't worry, God's the moral authority, he's always morally right, just 'cause... well, I don't know why. Well he made us so he must be allowed to treat us how he wants, right?

Doi.
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Skepsikyma
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3/10/2013 5:07:27 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Some religious people (and people in general) need to learn that just because they deem something sacred and worthy of admiration, that does not mean that other people share their opinion. To atheists, to trot out an old trope, blasphemy is a victimless crime. That said, I don't think that there's a need to be unnecessarily rude, but you can't act as if their crime is any worse than ridiculing Greek mythology. To them, it's the same principle.
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vbaculum
Posts: 1,274
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3/11/2013 1:46:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/9/2013 10:57:46 PM, phantom wrote:
At 3/9/2013 9:08:36 PM, vbaculum wrote:
At 3/8/2013 3:15:03 PM, phantom wrote:
At 3/8/2013 7:36:03 AM, vbaculum wrote:
At 3/6/2013 5:48:56 PM, phantom wrote:
Sarcasm about some parts of some religion is justified if you wish to use it. Of course it's debatable when you are justified or not and clearly the New Atheist movement and such has brought about much unnecessary and ignorant hate talk.

Can you give an example?

There are many. Just go to youtube. For example, one top rated comment saying no intelligent theists exist. I think it's safe to say comments like that spring from the popularity of New Atheism especially on youtube.

That's not a hateful thing to say, though.

Perhaps "hateful" was an overstatement, but you get the point.

It's also not a novel thing to say; it's been long observed that religious devotion is associated with simple-mindedness.

It is true that the more simple-minded you are, the more likely you are to be religious, however that in no way implies that all religious people are simple minded and it is surely true that plenty of intelligent theists exist.

"New Atheism" is too nebulous a term about which concrete assertions, like yours, can be made. Nobody actually says they are a member of the "New Atheist" movement. It's a term invented by critics of a handful of modern atheist writers. None of these writers would say anything like "no intelligent theists exist"; it's too obvious and interesting that intelligent people, sometimes extremely intelligent people, are theists.

I said it's brought about by New Atheism not that it's an integral part of it. Youtube type atheists say things like that all the time and those types are usually massive fans of the figures associated with new atheism (Dawkins, Harris etc...). I would say it's brought about by the influence of the movement. However, I wouldn't be too sure to say that those writers wouldn't say things like that. Dawkins himself answers the question of why he only attacks unsophisticated theologians by saying "sophisticated theologians are oxymoronic". https://twitter.com...

That twitter link was a choice rebuttal, I have to admit. However, it was clearly just a flippant remark aimed at his rivals. In The God Delusion, he cites Faraday, Francis Collins and others as being brilliant people who were/are theist.

I don't think you will be surprised to hear me argue that Youtube is full of hateful people. I'm not surprised that viscious atheists are fans of Dawkins et al. But that's because these writers just happen to be wildely popular with all atheists.

I would argue that this handful of writers have been successful, to some extent, in undermining the taboo which says that to critize religion is inappropriate. However, with or without their books, its certain that people would critize religion in online forums, and that some of this criticism would be hateful.

It's not appropriate to attribute any hatfulness to their work though, since it doesn't contain any, and doesn't seek to foment any.
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