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I, UnitedAndy, Call for Apeiron

unitedandy
Posts: 1,173
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3/6/2013 6:55:15 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Anyone who reads my debates knows I'm pretty confrontational against what I perceive as bad voting.

In my last debate http://debate.org...

(where I suffered unusual numbers of votebombs), I became highly suspicious of some of the votes. In particular, one voter accused me of dishonesty, votebombed and was generally unpleasant (Anaxa).

After a few exchanges, I knew there was something suspicious about this debater (who labelled himself as agnostic). For several reasons, I began to suspect this member was actually Apeiron himself.

It turns out my concerns seem justified. Both share the same IP.

I find this development incredibly disappointing. So, I'd like to offer Apeiron the chance in this forum to explain himself.
unitedandy
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3/6/2013 7:30:43 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Tell me about it. I wouldn't have posted this if I wasn't relatively certain, but I thought it fair to let Apeiron have a chance to explain.
philochristos
Posts: 2,614
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3/6/2013 8:11:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/6/2013 6:55:15 PM, unitedandy wrote:

It turns out my concerns seem justified. Both share the same IP.

How did you get their IP number(s)?
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
annanicole
Posts: 19,793
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3/6/2013 8:11:05 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
LOL @ same IP. I'm thinking maybe it's his sister?
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
popculturepooka
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3/6/2013 8:14:37 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/6/2013 8:11:01 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 3/6/2013 6:55:15 PM, unitedandy wrote:

It turns out my concerns seem justified. Both share the same IP.

How did you get their IP number(s)?

Probably from AirMax. I think he can check things like this.

And if him and Anaxa are the same person this debate would be...strange.

http://www.debate.org...
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
unitedandy
Posts: 1,173
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3/6/2013 8:17:13 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/6/2013 8:11:01 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 3/6/2013 6:55:15 PM, unitedandy wrote:

It turns out my concerns seem justified. Both share the same IP.

How did you get their IP number(s)?

I didn't. I voiced my concerns and it was confirmed they had the same IP.
DakotaKrafick
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3/6/2013 8:49:21 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/6/2013 8:14:37 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 3/6/2013 8:11:01 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 3/6/2013 6:55:15 PM, unitedandy wrote:

It turns out my concerns seem justified. Both share the same IP.

How did you get their IP number(s)?

Probably from AirMax. I think he can check things like this.

And if him and Anaxa are the same person this debate would be...strange.

http://www.debate.org...

They both had identical formatting in their writing, even the strange spacing between paragraphs (unless that's just my computer being strange). And Anaxa kept complimenting Apeiron... Conclude from that what you will.

I would like to hear Aperion's side before accusing anyone of anything, though. If Airmax checked, he'd find I shared an IP address with another member because we both use the same internet, so I'm not going to jump to any conclusions based on that.
bladerunner060
Posts: 7,126
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3/6/2013 9:00:29 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Not trying to be a party-pooper, but I was under the impression such a public call-out was generally poor form, and that this was normally referred to the great and powerful mods? (Except for RM because cheez-its, that guy's a whack-a-mole).
Assistant moderator to airmax1227. PM me with any questions or concerns!
airmax1227
Posts: 13,245
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3/6/2013 9:18:40 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I don't generally like these types of threads and I hope members would come to me with a specific issue that needs to be resolved instead of posting them.

UnitedAndy had an issue that needed to be dealt with and I did what I could to help. In this process I discovered that the mentioned members do indeed share an IP. Once I discovered this, I informed them both of our 'shared IP' rules. Since we like to give members the benefit of the doubt that they are indeed, roommates, spouses, siblings, family members etc, we allow them remain so long as they abide by these "shared IP" rules. These rules are simply that neither of those members may vote on the others debates, or debate each other.

My understanding is that this was a roommate situation, and it has since been resolved.

Since Anaxa can no longer unvote, if someone could counter that vote on UnitedAndy's debate it would be appreciated.
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YYW
Posts: 36,417
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3/6/2013 9:19:11 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/6/2013 9:00:29 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
Not trying to be a party-pooper, but I was under the impression such a public call-out was generally poor form, and that this was normally referred to the great and powerful mods?
Tsar of DDO
annanicole
Posts: 19,793
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3/6/2013 9:23:28 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Could some1 check n see if Composer and Dogknox share an IP?
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Apeiron
Posts: 2,446
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3/6/2013 9:24:09 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/6/2013 6:55:15 PM, unitedandy wrote:
Anyone who reads my debates knows I'm pretty confrontational against what I perceive as bad voting.

In my last debate http://debate.org...

(where I suffered unusual numbers of votebombs), I became highly suspicious of some of the votes. In particular, one voter accused me of dishonesty, votebombed and was generally unpleasant (Anaxa).

After a few exchanges, I knew there was something suspicious about this debater (who labelled himself as agnostic). For several reasons, I began to suspect this member was actually Apeiron himself.

It turns out my concerns seem justified. Both share the same IP.

I find this development incredibly disappointing. So, I'd like to offer Apeiron the chance in this forum to explain himself.

Love it. First, I don't need to "explain myself" to anyone. I will, however, graciously say that the guy known as Anaxa worked in the same phil dept as I do, he's agnostic, and we discussed UA's debate. He was interested and so voted. As airmax has said, there's many folks who share the same IP. And a friend's opinion was just as warranted as if were one of UA's friends wanted to pipe in.

Now does anyone really want to call me out? Or is this just merely a political move that has nothing to do with the caliber of argument I engaged the sore losing UA in?
Apeiron
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3/6/2013 9:36:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/6/2013 9:22:22 PM, Typhlochactas wrote:
Apeiron is a university student. I wouldn't be surprised if he shared a room with somebody.

yup, I'm trying getting my faculty and TA's on here
YYW
Posts: 36,417
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3/6/2013 9:50:49 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/6/2013 9:22:22 PM, Typhlochactas wrote:
Apeiron is a university student. I wouldn't be surprised if he shared a room with somebody.

It is remarkable to me that this hasn't occurred to anyone else.
Tsar of DDO
unitedandy
Posts: 1,173
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3/6/2013 9:56:51 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/6/2013 9:00:29 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
Not trying to be a party-pooper, but I was under the impression such a public call-out was generally poor form, and that this was normally referred to the great and powerful mods? (Except for RM because cheez-its, that guy's a whack-a-mole).

Let me just answer this point.

First, and it is a purely selfish motive here, I hate what I perceive to be unfair voting in my own debates. Maybe it's more understandable given the context, if you want to read some of the votes.

Second, I thought it common practise to "call out" poor voters. Things like the 16kadams trial (which I was a part of) seems to me to not just the best approach, but what I thought was the norm.

Third, it seems to me Apeiron does have a case to answer. People can call it sour grapes on my part and that's fine. But I think, again, given the situation, an explanation is in order here.
unitedandy
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3/6/2013 10:15:51 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/6/2013 9:24:09 PM, Apeiron wrote:
At 3/6/2013 6:55:15 PM, unitedandy wrote:
Anyone who reads my debates knows I'm pretty confrontational against what I perceive as bad voting.

In my last debate http://debate.org...

(where I suffered unusual numbers of votebombs), I became highly suspicious of some of the votes. In particular, one voter accused me of dishonesty, votebombed and was generally unpleasant (Anaxa).

After a few exchanges, I knew there was something suspicious about this debater (who labelled himself as agnostic). For several reasons, I began to suspect this member was actually Apeiron himself.

It turns out my concerns seem justified. Both share the same IP.

I find this development incredibly disappointing. So, I'd like to offer Apeiron the chance in this forum to explain himself.

Love it. First, I don't need to "explain myself" to anyone. I will, however, graciously say that the guy known as Anaxa worked in the same phil dept as I do, he's agnostic, and we discussed UA's debate. He was interested and so voted. As airmax has said, there's many folks who share the same IP. And a friend's opinion was just as warranted as if were one of UA's friends wanted to pipe in.

So it's just one massive coincidence that I strongly suspect a voter of being you (with no indication that he knew you, agreed with you or whatever) and you turn out to have the same IP?

If folk think I just happened (by pure luck or whatever) to guess you would have the same IP as someone else, fair enough. If that's the case, I should probably put on the lottery, coz the odds must be similar.

Bear in mind that this user has previous here. Apeiron was ReasonAlliance. Everyone knows this. In just the same way, I suspected Anaxa as part of this group. Folk can see it for themselves in the writing styles and other things.


Now does anyone really want to call me out? Or is this just merely a political move that has nothing to do with the caliber of argument I engaged the sore losing UA in?

If folk believe I'm being a sore loser here, that's their call. I think it's obvious there is clearly justification for being aggrieved.
YYW
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3/6/2013 10:16:16 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/6/2013 9:56:51 PM, unitedandy wrote:
At 3/6/2013 9:00:29 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
Not trying to be a party-pooper, but I was under the impression such a public call-out was generally poor form, and that this was normally referred to the great and powerful mods? (Except for RM because cheez-its, that guy's a whack-a-mole).

Let me just answer this point.

First, and it is a purely selfish motive here, I hate what I perceive to be unfair voting in my own debates. Maybe it's more understandable given the context, if you want to read some of the votes.

Making a post in the votebomb thread would have been appropriate. An attack on another member is not.

Second, I thought it common practise to "call out" poor voters. Things like the 16kadams trial (which I was a part of) seems to me to not just the best approach, but what I thought was the norm.

It was the case that about a month ago several threads were made to call out various members. Some individuals still do so. It is neither common practice, nor is it the best approach. Contacting Airmax and only contacting Airmax was the appropriate step to take. Nothing more.

The problem is the precedent it sets, and the implications to follow.

Third, it seems to me Apeiron does have a case to answer.

If there were questions to be resolved, it is best done by the moderators/DDO president.
Tsar of DDO
bladerunner060
Posts: 7,126
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3/6/2013 10:25:15 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
@UA:

I agree with YYW. More specifically, though, you're being a bit disingenuous. This thread is NOT a call-out of poor voting. There's a difference between calling out a perceived VB/poor voting, and calling out possible multi-accounting. That's a pretty serious charge, innit? Airmax has fairly consistently expressed disapproval with individual members doing threads like this, when he weighs in (I believe, anyway, from what I've seen including on this thread).

And, while I haven't participated in or really watched any trials, I believe they are instigated not by individual members who are aggrieved, but by the mods, yeh?
Assistant moderator to airmax1227. PM me with any questions or concerns!
bladerunner060
Posts: 7,126
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3/6/2013 10:26:37 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
On a side note (and to kind-of-purposefully derail this a bit), is there a good way to search for previous trials? I'm interested in that sort of thing.
Assistant moderator to airmax1227. PM me with any questions or concerns!
Apeiron
Posts: 2,446
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3/6/2013 10:34:06 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/6/2013 10:15:51 PM, unitedandy wrote:
At 3/6/2013 9:24:09 PM, Apeiron wrote:
At 3/6/2013 6:55:15 PM, unitedandy wrote:
Anyone who reads my debates knows I'm pretty confrontational against what I perceive as bad voting.

In my last debate http://debate.org...

(where I suffered unusual numbers of votebombs), I became highly suspicious of some of the votes. In particular, one voter accused me of dishonesty, votebombed and was generally unpleasant (Anaxa).

After a few exchanges, I knew there was something suspicious about this debater (who labelled himself as agnostic). For several reasons, I began to suspect this member was actually Apeiron himself.

It turns out my concerns seem justified. Both share the same IP.

I find this development incredibly disappointing. So, I'd like to offer Apeiron the chance in this forum to explain himself.

Love it. First, I don't need to "explain myself" to anyone. I will, however, graciously say that the guy known as Anaxa worked in the same phil dept as I do, he's agnostic, and we discussed UA's debate. He was interested and so voted. As airmax has said, there's many folks who share the same IP. And a friend's opinion was just as warranted as if were one of UA's friends wanted to pipe in.

So it's just one massive coincidence that I strongly suspect a voter of being you (with no indication that he knew you, agreed with you or whatever) and you turn out to have the same IP?

If folk think I just happened (by pure luck or whatever) to guess you would have the same IP as someone else, fair enough. If that's the case, I should probably put on the lottery, coz the odds must be similar.

Bear in mind that this user has previous here. Apeiron was ReasonAlliance. Everyone knows this. In just the same way, I suspected Anaxa as part of this group. Folk can see it for themselves in the writing styles and other things.







Now does anyone really want to call me out? Or is this just merely a political move that has nothing to do with the caliber of argument I engaged the sore losing UA in?

If folk believe I'm being a sore loser here, that's their call. I think it's obvious there is clearly justification for being aggrieved.

Not really, but hey for a bored poly-sci guy there's a fun conspiracy theory in here somewhere though!
airmax1227
Posts: 13,245
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3/6/2013 10:34:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/6/2013 10:26:37 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
On a side note (and to kind-of-purposefully derail this a bit), is there a good way to search for previous trials? I'm interested in that sort of thing.

The Izbo Trial:

http://www.debate.org...

The 16kadams Trial:

http://www.debate.org...
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Rusty
Posts: 2,109
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3/6/2013 10:41:19 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
And if they are the same person, that makes this extra cringeworthy.

For what it's worth, I've said that he has some pretty out-there ego issues for a while, but goodness:

I thank Apeiron for this most interesting debate. Indeed I've watched how and what Apeiron debates on this site and have been very impressed by his method and his skill in showing the reasonableness of his views. Indeed I think that Apeiron is quite easily one of the top debaters on this site. And I wish I had him as a student in my logic class!
Apeiron
Posts: 2,446
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3/6/2013 10:42:26 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/6/2013 10:40:06 PM, Rusty wrote:
Lmao. Check out this debate. They use the exact same style as far as which parts they bold and italicize.

http://www.debate.org...

What a joke.

Yep, we were literally looking over each other's shoulder in that debate.. your point?
Apeiron
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3/6/2013 10:43:09 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/6/2013 10:41:19 PM, Rusty wrote:
And if they are the same person, that makes this extra cringeworthy.

For what it's worth, I've said that he has some pretty out-there ego issues for a while, but goodness:

I thank Apeiron for this most interesting debate. Indeed I've watched how and what Apeiron debates on this site and have been very impressed by his method and his skill in showing the reasonableness of his views. Indeed I think that Apeiron is quite easily one of the top debaters on this site. And I wish I had him as a student in my logic class!

Haha I AM a student in his logic class lol
unitedandy
Posts: 1,173
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3/6/2013 10:43:16 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/6/2013 10:16:16 PM, YYW wrote:
At 3/6/2013 9:56:51 PM, unitedandy wrote:
At 3/6/2013 9:00:29 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
Not trying to be a party-pooper, but I was under the impression such a public call-out was generally poor form, and that this was normally referred to the great and powerful mods? (Except for RM because cheez-its, that guy's a whack-a-mole).

Let me just answer this point.

First, and it is a purely selfish motive here, I hate what I perceive to be unfair voting in my own debates. Maybe it's more understandable given the context, if you want to read some of the votes.

Making a post in the votebomb thread would have been appropriate. An attack on another member is not.


I've done it, but given how many votebombs there are, it's not going to make a blind bit of difference.

As for an "attack", I resent the characterisation. I reported what happened and asked for an explanation.

But if that's an attack, just look at what Anaxa wrote in his RFD, accusing me of dishonesty and such, which Con had already done previously in the comments.

Second, I thought it common practise to "call out" poor voters. Things like the 16kadams trial (which I was a part of) seems to me to not just the best approach, but what I thought was the norm.

It was the case that about a month ago several threads were made to call out various members. Some individuals still do so. It is neither common practice, nor is it the best approach. Contacting Airmax and only contacting Airmax was the appropriate step to take. Nothing more.

The problem is the precedent it sets, and the implications to follow.

Precedent for what? I don't typically go on the forums to antagonise people or whatever. I don't typically go on the forums at all in fact. But I do think there's a case to answer here.

Third, it seems to me Apeiron does have a case to answer.

If there were questions to be resolved, it is best done by the moderators/DDO president.

Again, I'd just ask why. If Apeiron wants a trial like thingy, we can do that. If he wants to ignore or answer the charge, he can do that. And if people want to accuse me of being whiny or whatever, they can do that to. But I don't get the big deal about airing a grievance, particularly in the circumstance.