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The Bible makes false claims..

Illegalcombatant
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3/7/2013 2:47:06 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/7/2013 2:28:50 AM, Pennington wrote:
The Bible makes false claims, for example, GO......

That depends, if any literal false claim of the bible or anything for that matter can be countered with no its symbolic, its metaphor, its spiritual truth, well then, you can have the most gratuitousness nonsense and never being proven wrong.

If you grant this for one thing you have to grant it for all. Say would you like to hear about Xenu ?

According to evolution theory of which I know little about, humans as we know them are the product of changes that go back billions of years. As opposed to the genesis claim that all humanity came from one man one women and this man and woman are without any preceding biological causation.
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
Pennington
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3/7/2013 2:52:21 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/7/2013 2:48:43 AM, FREEDO wrote:
http://www.debate.org...

What you expext me to do read through all that any answer them all? Why not post them one by one. All you need is one.
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Pennington
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3/7/2013 2:56:19 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/7/2013 2:47:06 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
That depends, if any literal false claim of the bible or anything for that matter can be countered with no its symbolic, its metaphor, its spiritual truth, well then, you can have the most gratuitousness nonsense and never being proven wrong.:
It is a fact that the Bible exhibits meta-physical claims.

If you grant this for one thing you have to grant it for all.:
This is false. If one uses evidence and learns then they use proper judgement for each specific example not the same for all.
Say would you like to hear about Xenu ?

According to evolution theory of which I know little about, humans as we know them are the product of changes that go back billions of years. As opposed to the genesis claim that all humanity came from one man one women and this man and woman are without any preceding biological causation.:
Showing that to be absolutely true is difficult.
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FREEDO
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3/7/2013 2:58:45 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/7/2013 2:52:21 AM, Pennington wrote:
All you need is one.

Then pick one. Any of them will do.
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fnord
Illegalcombatant
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3/7/2013 3:04:29 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/7/2013 2:56:19 AM, Pennington wrote:
At 3/7/2013 2:47:06 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
That depends, if any literal false claim of the bible or anything for that matter can be countered with no its symbolic, its metaphor, its spiritual truth, well then, you can have the most gratuitousness nonsense and never being proven wrong.:

It is a fact that the Bible exhibits meta-physical claims.

Sure I agree, now, does this refute my above point ?


If you grant this for one thing you have to grant it for all.:
This is false. If one uses evidence and learns then they use proper judgement for each specific example not the same for all.

Could you give an example here ?

Say would you like to hear about Xenu ?

According to evolution theory of which I know little about, humans as we know them are the product of changes that go back billions of years. As opposed to the genesis claim that all humanity came from one man one women and this man and woman are without any preceding biological causation.:
Showing that to be absolutely true is difficult.

No it's not difficult its impossible. You don't get absolutes in science, it always has to be open to evidence that runs contrary to even the most established scientific theories.

Now compare that to certain religions which know what "Gods truth" is, thus any proposition that can be made compatible with Gods truth MUST be wrong, and no amount of evidence can change that.
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
Illegalcombatant
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3/7/2013 3:05:48 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/7/2013 3:04:29 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:


Now compare that to certain religions which know what "Gods truth" is, thus any proposition that can be made *compatible with Gods truth MUST be wrong, and no amount of evidence can change that.

* Can't be made compatible
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
Pennington
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3/7/2013 3:20:49 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/7/2013 3:04:29 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:

Sure I agree, now, does this refute my above point ? :
Depends on how outrageous your point is.


If you grant this for one thing you have to grant it for all.:
This is false. If one uses evidence and learns then they use proper judgement for each specific example not the same for all.

Could you give an example here ?:
Sure, Teaching. When you are teaching multiple people do you teach them all the way? No, you teach them according to their learning ability. Some people learn things differently then others. Each example like people are different and unique and should be treated accordingly.

Say would you like to hear about Xenu ?

According to evolution theory of which I know little about, humans as we know them are the product of changes that go back billions of years. As opposed to the genesis claim that all humanity came from one man one women and this man and woman are without any preceding biological causation.:
Showing that to be absolutely true is difficult.

No it's not difficult its impossible. You don't get absolutes in science, it always has to be open to evidence that runs contrary to even the most established scientific theories.

Now compare that to certain religions which know what "Gods truth" is, thus any proposition that can be made compatible with Gods truth MUST be wrong, and no amount of evidence can change that.:

God is compatiable with any evidence so show He isn't.
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Composer
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3/7/2013 3:25:43 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/7/2013 3:20:49 AM, Pennington wrote:
God is compatiable with any evidence so show He isn't.

First show us -

i) That ANY literal Supernatural god exists?

ii) That ANY proven literal Supernatural god is a He?

Your turn!
Pennington
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3/7/2013 3:28:40 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/7/2013 2:58:45 AM, FREEDO wrote:
At 3/7/2013 2:52:21 AM, Pennington wrote:
All you need is one.

Then pick one. Any of them will do.

"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."
~Genesis 2:17 (King James Version)

"And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died."
Genesis 5:5 (King James Version)

>> Either God lied or this is a contradiction. One says he would die that day. The other says he died much later.:
Show there is one type death? Like a butterfly, the caterpillar no longer exist which is also death but still lives through the butterfly. This claim merely shows that Adam was no longer immortal and became mortal. In no way does this suggest Adam died instantly.

Your turn..
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Pennington
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3/7/2013 3:30:32 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/7/2013 3:25:43 AM, Composer wrote:
At 3/7/2013 3:20:49 AM, Pennington wrote:
God is compatiable with any evidence so show He isn't.

First show us -

i) That ANY literal Supernatural god exists?:
Not necessary.

ii) That ANY proven literal Supernatural god is a He?:
If God exists He has established that He is a He.

Your turn!
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Illegalcombatant
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3/7/2013 3:31:30 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/7/2013 3:20:49 AM, Pennington wrote:
At 3/7/2013 3:04:29 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:

Sure I agree, now, does this refute my above point ? :
Depends on how outrageous your point is.

That depends, if any literal false claim of the bible or anything for that matter can be countered with no its symbolic, its metaphor, its spiritual truth, well then, you can have the most gratuitousness nonsense and never being proven wrong.:

That's my point, you know the point you cut out. So does the fact the bible make metaphysical claims refute my above point ? what say you, yay or nay ?


If you grant this for one thing you have to grant it for all.:
This is false. If one uses evidence and learns then they use proper judgement for each specific example not the same for all.

Could you give an example here ?:
Sure, Teaching. When you are teaching multiple people do you teach them all the way? No, you teach them according to their learning ability. Some people learn things differently then others. Each example like people are different and unique and should be treated accordingly.

Even if this is a good learning method, it doesn't change my first point.

Say would you like to hear about Xenu ?

According to evolution theory of which I know little about, humans as we know them are the product of changes that go back billions of years. As opposed to the genesis claim that all humanity came from one man one women and this man and woman are without any preceding biological causation.:
Showing that to be absolutely true is difficult.

No it's not difficult its impossible. You don't get absolutes in science, it always has to be open to evidence that runs contrary to even the most established scientific theories.

Now compare that to certain religions which know what "Gods truth" is, thus any proposition that can be made compatible with Gods truth MUST be wrong, and no amount of evidence can change that.:

God is compatiable with any evidence so show He isn't.

Sure God can be made compatible with any possible evidence. But when it comes to evidence and claims based on that evidence there are religious claims that are not compatible. Eg The causal chain of humans goes back to a single cell or a few cells ? vs humans as we know then come from one man and one woman and are absent any previous biological causes.
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
Pennington
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3/7/2013 3:45:37 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/7/2013 3:31:30 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
I think you misunderstood. This is solely about the Bible and not a theological discussion about God. You can use anything reasonable. Heck, use anything you want.
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FREEDO
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3/7/2013 5:04:38 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
If you're going to pull a lousy excuse like that, I guess I'll have to pick one for you.

"For his sons carried him [Jacob] into the land of Canaan, and buried him in the cave of the field of Machpelah, which Abraham bought with the field for a possession of a buryingplace of Ephron the Hittite, before Mamre."
~Genesis 50:13 (King James Version)

"So Jacob went down into Egypt, and died, he, and our fathers,
And were carried over into Sychem, and laid in the sepulchre that Abraham bought for a sum of money of the sons of Emmor the father of Sychem."
~Acts 7:15-16 (King James Version)

Two different places he died. Two different locations of the tomb. Two different people who owned the tomb.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
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3/7/2013 5:09:07 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
"And Aaron the priest went up into mount Hor at the commandment of the LORD, and died there, in the fortieth year after the children of Israel were come out of the land of Egypt, in the first day of the fifth month."
~Numbers 33:38 (King James Version)

"And the children of Israel took their journey from Beeroth of the children of Jaakan to Mosera: there Aaron died, and there he was buried; and Eleazar his son ministered in the priest's office in his stead."
~Deuteronomy 10:6 (King James Version)

Here we have it again.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Illegalcombatant
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3/7/2013 5:10:23 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/7/2013 3:45:37 AM, Pennington wrote:
At 3/7/2013 3:31:30 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
I think you misunderstood. This is solely about the Bible and not a theological discussion about God. You can use anything reasonable. Heck, use anything you want.

Yeah, I bought up the genesis account (Genesis first book of the bible) of the origins of humanity and compared that to say the theory of evolution. Now what ?
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
FREEDO
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3/7/2013 5:12:47 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
"Two and twenty years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign; and he reigned one year in Jerusalem. And his mother's name was Athaliah, the daughter of Omri king of Israel."
~ 2 Kings 8:25-26 (King James Version)

"Forty and two years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign, and he reigned one year in Jerusalem. His mother's name also was Athaliah the daughter of Omri."
~ 2 Chronicles 22:2 (King James Version)

Began reigning at different ages.

"And the sons of Pedaiah were, Zerubbabel, and Shimei: and the sons of Zerubbabel; Meshullam, and Hananiah, and Shelomith their sister"
~ 1 Chronicles 3:19 (King James Version)

"Then stood up Jeshua the son of Jozadak, and his brethren the priests, and Zerubbabel the son of Shealtiel, and his brethren, and builded the altar of the God of Israel, to offer burnt offerings thereon, as it is written in the law of Moses the man of God."
~ Ezra 3:2 (King James Version)

Different fathers.

"And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ."
~ Matthew 1:16 (King James Version)

"And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli"
~ Luke 3:23 (King James Version)

Different fathers again.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Pennington
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3/7/2013 5:34:48 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/7/2013 5:04:38 AM, FREEDO wrote:
If you're going to pull a lousy excuse like that, I guess I'll have to pick one for you.:
I take it you can not argue against it.


"For his sons carried him [Jacob] into the land of Canaan, and buried him in the cave of the field of Machpelah, which Abraham bought with the field for a possession of a buryingplace of Ephron the Hittite, before Mamre."
~Genesis 50:13 (King James Version)

"So Jacob went down into Egypt, and died, he, and our fathers,
And were carried over into Sychem, and laid in the sepulchre that Abraham bought for a sum of money of the sons of Emmor the father of Sychem."
~Acts 7:15-16 (King James Version)

Two different places he died. Two different locations of the tomb. Two different people who owned the tomb.:

Those are two places that are same place, it could be correct to say either one.
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Pennington
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3/7/2013 5:36:17 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/7/2013 5:09:07 AM, FREEDO wrote:
"And Aaron the priest went up into mount Hor at the commandment of the LORD, and died there, in the fortieth year after the children of Israel were come out of the land of Egypt, in the first day of the fifth month."
~Numbers 33:38 (King James Version)

"And the children of Israel took their journey from Beeroth of the children of Jaakan to Mosera: there Aaron died, and there he was buried; and Eleazar his son ministered in the priest's office in his stead."
~Deuteronomy 10:6 (King James Version)

Here we have it again.:

Here these also are the same place.
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matt.mcguire88
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3/7/2013 5:41:07 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
When the Bible refers to God as a "Him", it is not in reference to gender but His ATTRIBUTES. Calling God a "Him" is simply describing His nature not what sex He is.
Composer
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3/7/2013 6:47:10 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/7/2013 5:41:07 AM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
When the Bible refers to God as a "Him", it is not in reference to gender but His ATTRIBUTES.

Your Patriarchal bias is showing!

You first claim it is nothing to do with Gender but then contradict yourself by claiming it must be referred to as ' His ' ATTRIBUTES!

You are miscievously denoting a Patriarchal Gender bias by using a term synanomous with Gender = His!

At 3/7/2013 5:41:07 AM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
Calling God a "Him" is simply describing His nature not what sex He is.

In order for your claim to have even a ring of rationality about it, YOU must therefore always refer to your imaginary friend as ' IT ' NOT He!

In fact, before the Johnny Come Lately corrupt trinitarian ideology spewed itself up on to the scene, Earlier Story book versions actually did refer to ' The Word ' as IT, but NOT He! i.e. -

English translations of the Bible before the KJV rendered the beginning of John 1: "All things were made through it and without it nothing was made that was made. In it was life"." Similarly a number of modern German and French translations describe the word as "it," not "him." (Source: http://focusonthekingdom.org...)

Your vindicated mentor moi!
matt.mcguire88
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3/7/2013 8:49:17 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/7/2013 6:47:10 AM, Composer wrote:
At 3/7/2013 5:41:07 AM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
When the Bible refers to God as a "Him", it is not in reference to gender but His ATTRIBUTES.

Your Patriarchal bias is showing!

You first claim it is nothing to do with Gender but then contradict yourself by claiming it must be referred to as ' His ' ATTRIBUTES!

You are miscievously denoting a Patriarchal Gender bias by using a term synanomous with Gender = His!


At 3/7/2013 5:41:07 AM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
Calling God a "Him" is simply describing His nature not what sex He is.

In order for your claim to have even a ring of rationality about it, YOU must therefore always refer to your imaginary friend as ' IT ' NOT He!

In fact, before the Johnny Come Lately corrupt trinitarian ideology spewed itself up on to the scene, Earlier Story book versions actually did refer to ' The Word ' as IT, but NOT He! i.e. -

English translations of the Bible before the KJV rendered the beginning of John 1: "All things were made through it and without it nothing was made that was made. In it was life"." Similarly a number of modern German and French translations describe the word as "it," not "him." (Source: http://focusonthekingdom.org...)

Your vindicated mentor moi!

Do you know how to have a normal conversation? Why you always yelling at everyone and cussing? I thought I made it clear to get lost? I think your opinions are irrelevant and boring.

It's called common sense old man. God does not have a sex, He doesn't need one lol. The reason why we don't refer to God as an "IT"!, is because God is a Person. He is the "Head", "He" refers to the nature of God, He is not feminine, it is attributes that are being described. There is no "bias" towards women here, don't even try and start crap that was never said. Do you have anything to share why you think that God might be or should be a woman? If not then stop declaring that everything I say is wrong and use your brain.

You are such a hypocrite that you don't even realize how biased YOU are. If anybody is biased on this entire site, it's YOU. You constantly stereotype and discriminate against believers at every chance you get. You have a little list for everyone who has a different belief than you and point your old condemning finger and look down on everyone. Why would I care about your opinion, I don't want to be anything like you.
Pennington
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3/7/2013 7:03:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/7/2013 5:09:07 AM, FREEDO wrote:
"And Aaron the priest went up into mount Hor at the commandment of the LORD, and died there, in the fortieth year after the children of Israel were come out of the land of Egypt, in the first day of the fifth month."
~Numbers 33:38 (King James Version)

"And the children of Israel took their journey from Beeroth of the children of Jaakan to Mosera: there Aaron died, and there he was buried; and Eleazar his son ministered in the priest's office in his stead."
~Deuteronomy 10:6 (King James Version)

Here we have it again.

To tell you the truth I am shocked you would try such a false claim. Any research shoves that claim is false.
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Pennington
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3/7/2013 7:08:09 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/7/2013 8:49:17 AM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 3/7/2013 6:47:10 AM, Composer wrote:
At 3/7/2013 5:41:07 AM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
When the Bible refers to God as a "Him", it is not in reference to gender but His ATTRIBUTES.

Your Patriarchal bias is showing!

You first claim it is nothing to do with Gender but then contradict yourself by claiming it must be referred to as ' His ' ATTRIBUTES!

You are miscievously denoting a Patriarchal Gender bias by using a term synanomous with Gender = His!


At 3/7/2013 5:41:07 AM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
Calling God a "Him" is simply describing His nature not what sex He is.

In order for your claim to have even a ring of rationality about it, YOU must therefore always refer to your imaginary friend as ' IT ' NOT He!

In fact, before the Johnny Come Lately corrupt trinitarian ideology spewed itself up on to the scene, Earlier Story book versions actually did refer to ' The Word ' as IT, but NOT He! i.e. -

English translations of the Bible before the KJV rendered the beginning of John 1: "All things were made through it and without it nothing was made that was made. In it was life"." Similarly a number of modern German and French translations describe the word as "it," not "him." (Source: http://focusonthekingdom.org...)

Your vindicated mentor moi!

Do you know how to have a normal conversation? Why you always yelling at everyone and cussing? I thought I made it clear to get lost? I think your opinions are irrelevant and boring.

It's called common sense old man. God does not have a sex, He doesn't need one lol. The reason why we don't refer to God as an "IT"!, is because God is a Person. He is the "Head", "He" refers to the nature of God, He is not feminine, it is attributes that are being described. There is no "bias" towards women here, don't even try and start crap that was never said. Do you have anything to share why you think that God might be or should be a woman? If not then stop declaring that everything I say is wrong and use your brain.

You are such a hypocrite that you don't even realize how biased YOU are. If anybody is biased on this entire site, it's YOU. You constantly stereotype and discriminate against believers at every chance you get. You have a little list for everyone who has a different belief than you and point your old condemning finger and look down on everyone. Why would I care about your opinion, I don't want to be anything like you.

I agree, first off. Also in Genesis it says that we are made after God's image and the same day the woman was made. There is no sex type in the spiritual kingdom. But there is what we call feminie attributes because women have them. A man in God's image is not complete without the woman.
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Pennington
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3/7/2013 7:09:52 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/7/2013 7:06:51 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
Rape is moral.:
Show it dont make uncalled for acusations.
Slavery is moral.:
Again show this.
Denying the rights of women is moral.:
Again show this.
Shall I continue?:
This is a good start.
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dylancatlow
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3/7/2013 7:13:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/7/2013 7:09:52 PM, Pennington wrote:
At 3/7/2013 7:06:51 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
Rape is moral.:
Show it dont make uncalled for acusations.
Slavery is moral.:
Again show this.
Denying the rights of women is moral.:
Again show this.
Shall I continue?:
This is a good start.

As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you. (Deuteronomy 20:10-14)
dylancatlow
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3/7/2013 7:14:45 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
When you go out to war against your enemies and the LORD, your God, delivers them into your hand, so that you take captives, if you see a comely woman among the captives and become so enamored of her that you wish to have her as wife, you may take her home to your house. But before she may live there, she must shave her head and pare her nails and lay aside her captive's garb. After she has mourned her father and mother for a full month, you may have relations with her, and you shall be her husband and she shall be your wife. However, if later on you lose your liking for her, you shall give her her freedom, if she wishes it; but you shall not sell her or enslave her, since she was married to you under compulsion. (Deuteronomy 21:10-14 NAB)
dylancatlow
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3/7/2013 7:14:56 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Lo, a day shall come for the Lord when the spoils shall be divided in your midst. And I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem for battle: the city shall be taken, houses plundered, women ravished; half of the city shall go into exile, but the rest of the people shall not be removed from the city. (Zechariah 14:1-2 NAB)