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Can you be convinced?

drafterman
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3/14/2013 8:24:04 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/14/2013 8:23:37 AM, Pennington wrote:
God came to me and told me to repent and ask for salvation.

How nice for you.
Pennington
Posts: 1,286
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3/14/2013 8:24:09 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/14/2013 8:20:02 AM, Kinesis wrote:
He could just tell me. I prayed once and nothing happened. :/:

Maybe the praying once part was the problem.
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Pennington
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3/14/2013 8:24:38 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/14/2013 8:14:34 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 3/14/2013 8:09:26 AM, Pennington wrote:
What would convince you of God's existence?

God.:

What would you need God to do?
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Pennington
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3/14/2013 8:25:45 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/14/2013 8:24:04 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 3/14/2013 8:23:37 AM, Pennington wrote:
God came to me and told me to repent and ask for salvation.

How nice for you.:

I do feel blessed.
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drafterman
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3/14/2013 8:34:00 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/14/2013 8:24:38 AM, Pennington wrote:
At 3/14/2013 8:14:34 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 3/14/2013 8:09:26 AM, Pennington wrote:
What would convince you of God's existence?

God.:

What would you need God to do?

Convince me of his existence.
Kinesis
Posts: 3,667
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3/14/2013 8:39:04 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/14/2013 8:24:09 AM, Pennington wrote:
At 3/14/2013 8:20:02 AM, Kinesis wrote:
He could just tell me. I prayed once and nothing happened. :/:

Maybe the praying once part was the problem.

Why is that?
Kinesis
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3/14/2013 8:39:36 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/14/2013 8:23:37 AM, Pennington wrote:
God came to me and told me to repent and ask for salvation.

Can you describe the experience in detail?
Pennington
Posts: 1,286
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3/14/2013 8:43:56 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/14/2013 8:34:00 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 3/14/2013 8:24:38 AM, Pennington wrote:
At 3/14/2013 8:14:34 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 3/14/2013 8:09:26 AM, Pennington wrote:


God.:

What would you need God to do?

Convince me of his existence.:

This was the original question, What would convince you of God's existence? You said, "God." Then you want me to convince you of God. You already said it right, only God can convince you of His existance. Have you ever said in your heart, God exist? Without actually knowing? Most people wouldn't have anything to do with people who ignore them should we think God should be different?
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Pennington
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3/14/2013 8:45:53 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/14/2013 8:39:04 AM, Kinesis wrote:
At 3/14/2013 8:24:09 AM, Pennington wrote:
At 3/14/2013 8:20:02 AM, Kinesis wrote:
He could just tell me. I prayed once and nothing happened. :/:

Maybe the praying once part was the problem.

Why is that?:

We can determine from one prayer that you didn't have faith in God or you would have prayed more than once. Do you expect God to announce himself when you have no faith or want.
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Kinesis
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3/14/2013 8:48:45 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/14/2013 8:43:56 AM, Pennington wrote:
This was the original question, What would convince you of God's existence? You said, "God." Then you want me to convince you of God. You already said it right, only God can convince you of His existance. Have you ever said in your heart, God exist? Without actually knowing? Most people wouldn't have anything to do with people who ignore them should we think God should be different?

I sometimes look at stuff and wonder if there's a designer (there are plausible evolutionary reasons why humans might assume agency when there's doubt about the origin of something) but I've certainly never believed that christianity was true, to any degree. If she exists, she's ignoring me. Not the other way around.
Pennington
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3/14/2013 8:49:19 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/14/2013 8:39:36 AM, Kinesis wrote:
At 3/14/2013 8:23:37 AM, Pennington wrote:
God came to me and told me to repent and ask for salvation.

Can you describe the experience in detail?:

I was young and was at a revival. I was not paying attention that much to the sermon. They had alot of preachers there. One got up though and He talked about Jesus dying for me and I cant remember the exact message but all I know is something said, repent and ask for salvation. I did and have felt blessed ever since.
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Kinesis
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3/14/2013 8:50:50 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/14/2013 8:45:53 AM, Pennington wrote:
At 3/14/2013 8:39:04 AM, Kinesis wrote:
At 3/14/2013 8:24:09 AM, Pennington wrote:
At 3/14/2013 8:20:02 AM, Kinesis wrote:
He could just tell me. I prayed once and nothing happened. :/:

Maybe the praying once part was the problem.

Why is that?:

We can determine from one prayer that you didn't have faith in God or you would have prayed more than once. Do you expect God to announce himself when you have no faith or want.

Yes, because I can't choose what I believe. I update my beliefs in response to new information. I don't believe random things in the hope that evidence will appear in response to that belief. I'm not even sure I'm psychologically capable of that.
Kinesis
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3/14/2013 8:53:41 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/14/2013 8:49:19 AM, Pennington wrote:
At 3/14/2013 8:39:36 AM, Kinesis wrote:
At 3/14/2013 8:23:37 AM, Pennington wrote:
God came to me and told me to repent and ask for salvation.

Can you describe the experience in detail?:

I was young and was at a revival. I was not paying attention that much to the sermon. They had alot of preachers there. One got up though and He talked about Jesus dying for me and I cant remember the exact message but all I know is something said, repent and ask for salvation. I did and have felt blessed ever since.

That sounds like it's explainable without recourse to god. It's similar to Luke's experience over on commonsenseatheism: http://commonsenseatheism.com...

"I felt the presence of God. Sometimes I would tingle and sweat with the Holy Spirit. Other times I felt led by Him to give money to a certain cause, or to pay someone a specific compliment, or to walk to the cross at the front of my church and bow before it during a worship service.

Around age 19 I got depressed, probably because I did nothing but work at Wal-Mart, download music, and watch internet porn. But one day I saw a leaf twirling in the wind and it was so beautiful " like the twirling plastic bag in the movie American Beauty. I had an epiphany. I realized that everything in nature was a gift from God to me. Grass, lakes, trees, sunsets " all these were gifts of beauty from my Savior to me. I thought of this every time I saw something beautiful, and God delivered me from my depression (and my porn addiction)."
Pennington
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3/14/2013 8:54:02 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/14/2013 8:48:45 AM, Kinesis wrote:
I sometimes look at stuff and wonder if there's a designer (there are plausible evolutionary reasons why humans might assume agency when there's doubt about the origin of something) but I've certainly never believed that christianity was true, to any degree. If she exists, she's ignoring me. Not the other way around.:

You sound like a person who taps the door instead of knocking hard enough to hear it. I have never believed in modern fables. If you look at things and can not see their degree of complex need for design then your still not looking hard enough. There is plausible reasons why humanity seeks to deny God.
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Pennington
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3/14/2013 8:54:59 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/14/2013 8:50:50 AM, Kinesis wrote:

Yes, because I can't choose what I believe. I update my beliefs in response to new information. I don't believe random things in the hope that evidence will appear in response to that belief. I'm not even sure I'm psychologically capable of that.:

I understand.
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Pennington
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3/14/2013 8:56:34 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/14/2013 8:53:41 AM, Kinesis wrote:
At 3/14/2013 8:49:19 AM, Pennington wrote:
At 3/14/2013 8:39:36 AM, Kinesis wrote:
At 3/14/2013 8:23:37 AM, Pennington wrote:
God came to me and told me to repent and ask for salvation.

Can you describe the experience in detail?:

I was young and was at a revival. I was not paying attention that much to the sermon. They had alot of preachers there. One got up though and He talked about Jesus dying for me and I cant remember the exact message but all I know is something said, repent and ask for salvation. I did and have felt blessed ever since.

That sounds like it's explainable without recourse to god. It's similar to Luke's experience over on commonsenseatheism: http://commonsenseatheism.com...

"I felt the presence of God. Sometimes I would tingle and sweat with the Holy Spirit. Other times I felt led by Him to give money to a certain cause, or to pay someone a specific compliment, or to walk to the cross at the front of my church and bow before it during a worship service.

Around age 19 I got depressed, probably because I did nothing but work at Wal-Mart, download music, and watch internet porn. But one day I saw a leaf twirling in the wind and it was so beautiful " like the twirling plastic bag in the movie American Beauty. I had an epiphany. I realized that everything in nature was a gift from God to me. Grass, lakes, trees, sunsets " all these were gifts of beauty from my Savior to me. I thought of this every time I saw something beautiful, and God delivered me from my depression (and my porn addiction).":

Yep, only though it was God no matter how hard you reject it.
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drafterman
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3/14/2013 8:57:24 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/14/2013 8:43:56 AM, Pennington wrote:
At 3/14/2013 8:34:00 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 3/14/2013 8:24:38 AM, Pennington wrote:
At 3/14/2013 8:14:34 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 3/14/2013 8:09:26 AM, Pennington wrote:


God.:

What would you need God to do?

Convince me of his existence.:

This was the original question, What would convince you of God's existence? You said, "God."

Yes. God would convince me of his existence. I'm not sure how that is confusing.

Then you want me to convince you of God.

Uh... no I don't. I'm not asking you to convince me of God. You asked me what I would need God to do. That's what I would need God to do: convince me of his existence.

You already said it right, only God can convince you of His existance. Have you ever said in your heart, God exist?

No.

Without actually knowing? Most people wouldn't have anything to do with people who ignore them should we think God should be different?

1. This is false. Ever heard of the silent treatment? Most people can't stand being ignored ("Love me or hate me, but spare me your indifference). Ignoring someone is a tried and true method of inciting some sort of response from them.

2. Yes, God should be different. Ignoring someone simply because they are ignoring you is spiteful, petty, and unforgiving. Are these qualities you are saying your God has?
Pennington
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3/14/2013 9:06:40 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/14/2013 8:57:24 AM, drafterman wrote:
You already said it right, only God can convince you of His existance. Have you ever said in your heart, God exist?

No.:
This is the major problem that presist. Without this you can not know God.

Without actually knowing? Most people wouldn't have anything to do with people who ignore them should we think God should be different?

1. This is false. Ever heard of the silent treatment? Most people can't stand being ignored ("Love me or hate me, but spare me your indifference). Ignoring someone is a tried and true method of inciting some sort of response from them.:
You said it, "God will let you know about Him, make it on your terms." This response is also untrue. Ignoring someone usually results in no contact.

2. Yes, God should be different. Ignoring someone simply because they are ignoring you is spiteful, petty, and unforgiving. Are these qualities you are saying your God has?:
No one ever said God has ignored you but that you ignore God.
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drafterman
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3/14/2013 9:10:25 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/14/2013 9:06:40 AM, Pennington wrote:
At 3/14/2013 8:57:24 AM, drafterman wrote:
You already said it right, only God can convince you of His existance. Have you ever said in your heart, God exist?

No.:
This is the major problem that presist. Without this you can not know God.

Yes, I agree that I can't know God until I first believe in him. But I can't just will myself to believe in him. That's not psychologically possible.


Without actually knowing? Most people wouldn't have anything to do with people who ignore them should we think God should be different?

1. This is false. Ever heard of the silent treatment? Most people can't stand being ignored ("Love me or hate me, but spare me your indifference). Ignoring someone is a tried and true method of inciting some sort of response from them.:
You said it, "God will let you know about Him, make it on your terms." This response is also untrue. Ignoring someone usually results in no contact.

2. Yes, God should be different. Ignoring someone simply because they are ignoring you is spiteful, petty, and unforgiving. Are these qualities you are saying your God has?:
No one ever said God has ignored you but that you ignore God.

You just said it. You said God ignores me because I ignore him.
pozessed
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3/14/2013 9:13:47 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/14/2013 9:10:25 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 3/14/2013 9:06:40 AM, Pennington wrote:
At 3/14/2013 8:57:24 AM, drafterman wrote:
You already said it right, only God can convince you of His existance. Have you ever said in your heart, God exist?

No.:
This is the major problem that presist. Without this you can not know God.

Yes, I agree that I can't know God until I first believe in him. But I can't just will myself to believe in him. That's not psychologically possible.


Without actually knowing? Most people wouldn't have anything to do with people who ignore them should we think God should be different?

1. This is false. Ever heard of the silent treatment? Most people can't stand being ignored ("Love me or hate me, but spare me your indifference). Ignoring someone is a tried and true method of inciting some sort of response from them.:
You said it, "God will let you know about Him, make it on your terms." This response is also untrue. Ignoring someone usually results in no contact.

2. Yes, God should be different. Ignoring someone simply because they are ignoring you is spiteful, petty, and unforgiving. Are these qualities you are saying your God has?:
No one ever said God has ignored you but that you ignore God.

You just said it. You said God ignores me because I ignore him.

I have no real relevance here, just wanted to speculate.
What if God is your own voice of reason and you haven't given him credit for that attribute?
In that scenario you would be ignoring God even though he doesn't ignore you.
Pennington
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3/14/2013 9:15:48 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/14/2013 9:10:25 AM, drafterman wrote:
Yes, I agree that I can't know God until I first believe in him. But I can't just will myself to believe in him. That's not psychologically possible.:
Well you can't find God unless you search. I disagree that you can not will yourself to God.

You just said it. You said God ignores me because I ignore him.:
Nope I simply implied that it could be a reason. God would never ignore you but He most likely won't just reveal himself without your faith first.
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Pennington
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3/14/2013 9:17:58 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/14/2013 9:13:47 AM, pozessed wrote:

I have no real relevance here, just wanted to speculate.
What if God is your own voice of reason and you haven't given him credit for that attribute?
In that scenario you would be ignoring God even though he doesn't ignore you.:
+3
That was a good post!
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drafterman
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3/14/2013 9:18:00 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/14/2013 9:13:47 AM, pozessed wrote:
At 3/14/2013 9:10:25 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 3/14/2013 9:06:40 AM, Pennington wrote:
At 3/14/2013 8:57:24 AM, drafterman wrote:
You already said it right, only God can convince you of His existance. Have you ever said in your heart, God exist?

No.:
This is the major problem that presist. Without this you can not know God.

Yes, I agree that I can't know God until I first believe in him. But I can't just will myself to believe in him. That's not psychologically possible.


Without actually knowing? Most people wouldn't have anything to do with people who ignore them should we think God should be different?

1. This is false. Ever heard of the silent treatment? Most people can't stand being ignored ("Love me or hate me, but spare me your indifference). Ignoring someone is a tried and true method of inciting some sort of response from them.:
You said it, "God will let you know about Him, make it on your terms." This response is also untrue. Ignoring someone usually results in no contact.

2. Yes, God should be different. Ignoring someone simply because they are ignoring you is spiteful, petty, and unforgiving. Are these qualities you are saying your God has?:
No one ever said God has ignored you but that you ignore God.

You just said it. You said God ignores me because I ignore him.

I have no real relevance here, just wanted to speculate.
What if God is your own voice of reason and you haven't given him credit for that attribute?
In that scenario you would be ignoring God even though he doesn't ignore you.

Herp, my voice of reason says God doesn't exist.
Pennington
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3/14/2013 9:19:38 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/14/2013 9:18:00 AM, drafterman wrote:

Herp, my voice of reason says God doesn't exist.:

Atleast we know you dont reject your own reason.
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drafterman
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3/14/2013 9:20:21 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/14/2013 9:15:48 AM, Pennington wrote:
At 3/14/2013 9:10:25 AM, drafterman wrote:
Yes, I agree that I can't know God until I first believe in him. But I can't just will myself to believe in him. That's not psychologically possible.:
Well you can't find God unless you search. I disagree that you can not will yourself to God.

Ah, ah, ah... Now you're changing things. I've certainly searched for God. We're talking about me imply deciding to believe. That is not something that can happen on a whim. Now, certainly, I think one can condition one's self to believe in something, through repetition and self-hypnosis, but one can make one's self believe just about anything, true or false, through such methods.

I can't, however, simply snap my fingers and truly believe in God - and that is what you have asked me to do. I've searched, but I do not believe, because the search has turned up nothing. Evidence first, then belief.


You just said it. You said God ignores me because I ignore him.:
Nope I simply implied that it could be a reason. God would never ignore you but He most likely won't just reveal himself without your faith first.

Then that's petty and stupid.