Total Posts:53|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

The Free Will Defense

popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/14/2013 8:51:26 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
If you're not sure what I'm talking about I'm talking about the free will defense in response to the logical problem of evil. In essence, it's meant to show that the existence of evil and the existence of God are logically compossible (i.e. there is no contradiction in asserting both that "God exists" and "evil exists"). Obviously, being a Christian I agree that they are but I've always found something a little bit fishy about Alvin Plantinga's construal of the FWD. (Sidenote: his construal of the FWD is basically the reason why most philosophers - atheists, theists, and agnostics alike - think the logical problem of evil fails and why they have moved on to largely discussing the evidential problem of evil.) I never could get really get my head around why I'm supposed to think that "transworld depravity" is possible. It seemed to me that it isn't, or at least there is no good reason to think so. I've noticed that there is a growing number of philosophers who have had the same sorts of doubts. (^_^) This whole debate also has a bearing on those who want to make use of the notion of "transworld damnation". I'm looking at you William Lane Craig.

Witness:

http://exapologist.blogspot.com...
http://exapologist.blogspot.com...

The papers linked are a lot of interesting reading for those so inclined. If you weren't aware, now you are.

I'll add that most of these people critiquing Plantinga's FWD are Christians (Richard Otte, Alexander Pruss, Michael Almeida, Daniel Howard-Snyder, John Hawthorne, Joshua Rasumssen, and Wes Morriston).
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
logicrules
Posts: 1,721
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/14/2013 9:41:42 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/14/2013 8:51:26 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
If you're not sure what I'm talking about I'm talking about the free will defense in response to the logical problem of evil. In essence, it's meant to show that the existence of evil and the existence of God are logically compossible (i.e. there is no contradiction in asserting both that "God exists" and "evil exists"). Obviously, being a Christian I agree that they are but I've always found something a little bit fishy about Alvin Plantinga's construal of the FWD. (Sidenote: his construal of the FWD is basically the reason why most philosophers - atheists, theists, and agnostics alike - think the logical problem of evil fails and why they have moved on to largely discussing the evidential problem of evil.) I never could get really get my head around why I'm supposed to think that "transworld depravity" is possible. It seemed to me that it isn't, or at least there is no good reason to think so. I've noticed that there is a growing number of philosophers who have had the same sorts of doubts. (^_^) This whole debate also has a bearing on those who want to make use of the notion of "transworld damnation". I'm looking at you William Lane Craig.

Witness:

http://exapologist.blogspot.com...
http://exapologist.blogspot.com...

The papers linked are a lot of interesting reading for those so inclined. If you weren't aware, now you are.

I'll add that most of these people critiquing Plantinga's FWD are Christians (Richard Otte, Alexander Pruss, Michael Almeida, Daniel Howard-Snyder, John Hawthorne, Joshua Rasumssen, and Wes Morriston).

What if there is no evil? Are you not assigning your desires to actions, thereby making them evil?
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/14/2013 9:45:00 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/14/2013 9:41:42 PM, logicrules wrote:

What if there is no evil?

There is evil.

Are you not assigning your desires to actions, thereby making them evil?

No.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
logicrules
Posts: 1,721
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/14/2013 9:46:13 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/14/2013 9:45:00 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 3/14/2013 9:41:42 PM, logicrules wrote:

What if there is no evil?

There is evil.

Are you not assigning your desires to actions, thereby making them evil?

No.
Name one evil, I know of none.
muzebreak
Posts: 2,781
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/14/2013 9:47:24 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/14/2013 9:46:13 PM, logicrules wrote:
At 3/14/2013 9:45:00 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 3/14/2013 9:41:42 PM, logicrules wrote:

What if there is no evil?

There is evil.

Are you not assigning your desires to actions, thereby making them evil?

No.
Name one evil, I know of none.

Unnecessary suffering.
"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.
logicrules
Posts: 1,721
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/14/2013 9:49:53 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/14/2013 9:47:24 PM, muzebreak wrote:
At 3/14/2013 9:46:13 PM, logicrules wrote:
At 3/14/2013 9:45:00 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 3/14/2013 9:41:42 PM, logicrules wrote:

What if there is no evil?

There is evil.

Are you not assigning your desires to actions, thereby making them evil?

No.
Name one evil, I know of none.

Unnecessary suffering.

mmmm so suffering is not evil until it is necessary. Who determines need?
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/14/2013 9:53:15 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/14/2013 9:46:13 PM, logicrules wrote:
At 3/14/2013 9:45:00 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 3/14/2013 9:41:42 PM, logicrules wrote:

What if there is no evil?

There is evil.

Are you not assigning your desires to actions, thereby making them evil?

No.
Name one evil, I know of none.

The rape, torture and murder of a child.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
muzebreak
Posts: 2,781
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/14/2013 9:58:04 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/14/2013 9:49:53 PM, logicrules wrote:
At 3/14/2013 9:47:24 PM, muzebreak wrote:
At 3/14/2013 9:46:13 PM, logicrules wrote:
At 3/14/2013 9:45:00 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 3/14/2013 9:41:42 PM, logicrules wrote:

What if there is no evil?

There is evil.

Are you not assigning your desires to actions, thereby making them evil?

No.
Name one evil, I know of none.

Unnecessary suffering.

mmmm so suffering is not evil until it is necessary. Who determines need?

I would appreciate if you would not infer things from what I say. It generally leads to one thinking something was said that was not, as has happend here.

One's self determines needs. A need is, by its very nature, subjective upon the person who feels it is needed. But if you are asking after the difference between unnecessary suffering and necessary suffering that would make one evil and the other not, there isn't one. But some people disagree with that, which is why I specified unnecessary suffering.

Do you concede that unnecessary suffering is evil?
"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.
logicrules
Posts: 1,721
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/14/2013 10:00:46 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/14/2013 9:53:15 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 3/14/2013 9:46:13 PM, logicrules wrote:
At 3/14/2013 9:45:00 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 3/14/2013 9:41:42 PM, logicrules wrote:

What if there is no evil?

There is evil.

Are you not assigning your desires to actions, thereby making them evil?

No.
Name one evil, I know of none.

The rape, torture and murder of a child.

interesting, is the and conjunctive, or did you mean or? Rape is forced sexual intercourse so force is evil? Muder is a crime of intention so Killing a human s OK? Define torture....I found calculus to be torture.

Still not getting the Evil....is Evil a thing or is it a designation?
muzebreak
Posts: 2,781
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/14/2013 10:01:13 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/14/2013 9:46:13 PM, logicrules wrote:
At 3/14/2013 9:45:00 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 3/14/2013 9:41:42 PM, logicrules wrote:

What if there is no evil?

There is evil.

Are you not assigning your desires to actions, thereby making them evil?

No.
Name one evil, I know of none.

I just realised, you're a Christian. So either you have some wacko definition of evil, or you've never read the bible or heard the teachings of it. Or, you are trying to incite an argument against the POE by pointing out the subjectivity of evil. This fails when one considers Christianity, as it has an objective set of evils, and so still falls to the POE.
"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.
logicrules
Posts: 1,721
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/14/2013 10:03:32 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/14/2013 10:01:13 PM, muzebreak wrote:
At 3/14/2013 9:46:13 PM, logicrules wrote:
At 3/14/2013 9:45:00 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 3/14/2013 9:41:42 PM, logicrules wrote:

What if there is no evil?

There is evil.

Are you not assigning your desires to actions, thereby making them evil?

No.
Name one evil, I know of none.

I just realised, you're a Christian. So either you have some wacko definition of evil, or you've never read the bible or heard the teachings of it. Or, you are trying to incite an argument against the POE by pointing out the subjectivity of evil. This fails when one considers Christianity, as it has an objective set of evils, and so still falls to the POE.

Nope....extremely serious. Evil is like Vice....nothing is quite so evil as what those other people do. But what IS evil?
muzebreak
Posts: 2,781
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/14/2013 10:06:04 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/14/2013 10:03:32 PM, logicrules wrote:
At 3/14/2013 10:01:13 PM, muzebreak wrote:
At 3/14/2013 9:46:13 PM, logicrules wrote:
At 3/14/2013 9:45:00 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 3/14/2013 9:41:42 PM, logicrules wrote:

What if there is no evil?

There is evil.

Are you not assigning your desires to actions, thereby making them evil?

No.
Name one evil, I know of none.

I just realised, you're a Christian. So either you have some wacko definition of evil, or you've never read the bible or heard the teachings of it. Or, you are trying to incite an argument against the POE by pointing out the subjectivity of evil. This fails when one considers Christianity, as it has an objective set of evils, and so still falls to the POE.

Nope....extremely serious. Evil is like Vice....nothing is quite so evil as what those other people do. But what IS evil?

Evil is just another word for immorality.
"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.
muzebreak
Posts: 2,781
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/14/2013 10:07:12 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/14/2013 10:06:04 PM, muzebreak wrote:
At 3/14/2013 10:03:32 PM, logicrules wrote:
At 3/14/2013 10:01:13 PM, muzebreak wrote:
At 3/14/2013 9:46:13 PM, logicrules wrote:
At 3/14/2013 9:45:00 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 3/14/2013 9:41:42 PM, logicrules wrote:

What if there is no evil?

There is evil.

Are you not assigning your desires to actions, thereby making them evil?

No.
Name one evil, I know of none.

I just realised, you're a Christian. So either you have some wacko definition of evil, or you've never read the bible or heard the teachings of it. Or, you are trying to incite an argument against the POE by pointing out the subjectivity of evil. This fails when one considers Christianity, as it has an objective set of evils, and so still falls to the POE.

Nope....extremely serious. Evil is like Vice....nothing is quite so evil as what those other people do. But what IS evil?

Evil is just another word for immorality.

Or, at least in this context it is.
"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/14/2013 10:09:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/14/2013 10:00:46 PM, logicrules wrote:
At 3/14/2013 9:53:15 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 3/14/2013 9:46:13 PM, logicrules wrote:
At 3/14/2013 9:45:00 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 3/14/2013 9:41:42 PM, logicrules wrote:

What if there is no evil?

There is evil.

Are you not assigning your desires to actions, thereby making them evil?

No.
Name one evil, I know of none.

The rape, torture and murder of a child.

interesting, is the and conjunctive, or did you mean or? Rape is forced sexual intercourse so force is evil? Muder is a crime of intention so Killing a human s OK? Define torture....I found calculus to be torture.

Still not getting the Evil....is Evil a thing or is it a designation?

...you can't be serious. Is your whole argument gong to be based on equivocation? If so, I'm not going to bother.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
logicrules
Posts: 1,721
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/14/2013 10:11:03 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/14/2013 9:58:04 PM, muzebreak wrote:
At 3/14/2013 9:49:53 PM, logicrules wrote:
At 3/14/2013 9:47:24 PM, muzebreak wrote:
At 3/14/2013 9:46:13 PM, logicrules wrote:
At 3/14/2013 9:45:00 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 3/14/2013 9:41:42 PM, logicrules wrote:

What if there is no evil?

There is evil.

Are you not assigning your desires to actions, thereby making them evil?

No.
Name one evil, I know of none.

Unnecessary suffering.

mmmm so suffering is not evil until it is necessary. Who determines need?

I would appreciate if you would not infer things from what I say. It generally leads to one thinking something was said that was not, as has happend here.

One's self determines needs. A need is, by its very nature, subjective upon the person who feels it is needed. But if you are asking after the difference between unnecessary suffering and necessary suffering that would make one evil and the other not, there isn't one. But some people disagree with that, which is why I specified unnecessary suffering.

Do you concede that unnecessary suffering is evil?

I did not infer,,,I used English and no I do not concede or agree. In fact, applying your definition it can not be determined by anyone other that the sufferer, subjective. I do not think suffering evil....regardless of the modifier.
logicrules
Posts: 1,721
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/14/2013 10:14:05 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/14/2013 10:09:41 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 3/14/2013 10:00:46 PM, logicrules wrote:
At 3/14/2013 9:53:15 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 3/14/2013 9:46:13 PM, logicrules wrote:
At 3/14/2013 9:45:00 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 3/14/2013 9:41:42 PM, logicrules wrote:

What if there is no evil?

There is evil.

Are you not assigning your desires to actions, thereby making them evil?

No.
Name one evil, I know of none.

The rape, torture and murder of a child.

interesting, is the and conjunctive, or did you mean or? Rape is forced sexual intercourse so force is evil? Muder is a crime of intention so Killing a human s OK? Define torture....I found calculus to be torture.

Still not getting the Evil....is Evil a thing or is it a designation?

...you can't be serious. Is your whole argument gong to be based on equivocation? If so, I'm not going to bother.

No...it is based on differentiation. I accept that there are criminal acts considered reprehensible by society. Are you equating illegal with Evil, or it that I am supposed to know what you mean even if the way you write it isnt what you mean?
bladerunner060
Posts: 7,126
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/14/2013 10:14:46 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Since you self-identify as Catholic logicrules, and Catholics have teachings on the nature of evil, I question whether you're actually just a troll.
Assistant moderator to airmax1227. PM me with any questions or concerns!
muzebreak
Posts: 2,781
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/14/2013 10:15:11 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/14/2013 10:11:03 PM, logicrules wrote:
At 3/14/2013 9:58:04 PM, muzebreak wrote:
At 3/14/2013 9:49:53 PM, logicrules wrote:
At 3/14/2013 9:47:24 PM, muzebreak wrote:
At 3/14/2013 9:46:13 PM, logicrules wrote:
At 3/14/2013 9:45:00 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 3/14/2013 9:41:42 PM, logicrules wrote:

What if there is no evil?

There is evil.

Are you not assigning your desires to actions, thereby making them evil?

No.
Name one evil, I know of none.

Unnecessary suffering.

mmmm so suffering is not evil until it is necessary. Who determines need?

I would appreciate if you would not infer things from what I say. It generally leads to one thinking something was said that was not, as has happend here.

One's self determines needs. A need is, by its very nature, subjective upon the person who feels it is needed. But if you are asking after the difference between unnecessary suffering and necessary suffering that would make one evil and the other not, there isn't one. But some people disagree with that, which is why I specified unnecessary suffering.

Do you concede that unnecessary suffering is evil?

I did not infer,,,I used English

Please explain.

and no I do not concede or agree. In fact, applying your definition it can not be determined by anyone other that the sufferer, subjective.

I'm sorry, which definition would this be? Because I don't remember giving a definition that would make this true.

I do not think suffering evil....regardless of the modifier.

Do you think that murder is immoral?
"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.
muzebreak
Posts: 2,781
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/14/2013 10:17:11 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/14/2013 10:14:46 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
Since you self-identify as Catholic logicrules, and Catholics have teachings on the nature of evil, I question whether you're actually just a troll.

I was contemplating that myself, as his whole argument relies on him pretending he doesn't know what evil is.
"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.
bladerunner060
Posts: 7,126
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/14/2013 10:19:16 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
muzebreak, I think he's trying to argue that you can't prove that anything is "unnecessary", therefore evil can't be proven. It's a very willful ignoring of the point, which is why I'm beginning to question whether he's just a troll.
Assistant moderator to airmax1227. PM me with any questions or concerns!
logicrules
Posts: 1,721
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/14/2013 10:19:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/14/2013 10:11:23 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
Also, what does any of this have to do with the topic at hand?

An affirmative defense is applicable only when confronting an actual affirmative. Free Will is a theological construct having to do with agency. Evil is just a term as far as I can tell to refer to all those things someone dislikes. Most everything is evil to someone. Even soda is Evil in some place.
bladerunner060
Posts: 7,126
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/14/2013 10:21:14 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/14/2013 10:19:39 PM, logicrules wrote:
At 3/14/2013 10:11:23 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
Also, what does any of this have to do with the topic at hand?

An affirmative defense is applicable only when confronting an actual affirmative. Free Will is a theological construct having to do with agency. Evil is just a term as far as I can tell to refer to all those things someone dislikes. Most everything is evil to someone. Even soda is Evil in some place.

Your church teaches that sin is evil. Go with that.
Assistant moderator to airmax1227. PM me with any questions or concerns!
logicrules
Posts: 1,721
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/14/2013 10:26:53 PM
Posted: 3 years ago

I did not infer,,,I used English

Please explain.

and no I do not concede or agree. In fact, applying your definition it can not be determined by anyone other that the sufferer, subjective.

I'm sorry, which definition would this be? Because I don't remember giving a definition that would make this true.

I do not think suffering evil....regardless of the modifier.

Do you think that murder is immoral?

Evil or immoral? Which Morality shall I apply? Let's stick to evil. Murder is not Evil...I think it is wrong. I did not inver I merely read :unnecessary evil. You explained, your idea of unnesessary, I used that as your definition. Nest time I shall look for the genus species and specific difference form.
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/14/2013 10:27:52 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/14/2013 10:19:39 PM, logicrules wrote:
At 3/14/2013 10:11:23 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
Also, what does any of this have to do with the topic at hand?

An affirmative defense is applicable only when confronting an actual affirmative. Free Will is a theological construct having to do with agency. Evil is just a term as far as I can tell to refer to all those things someone dislikes. Most everything is evil to someone. Even soda is Evil in some place.

That's absurd. I dislike eating octopus. I don't think it's evil to do so. Furthermore, people can like to do things they think are evil.

Again this has nothing to do with the topic at hand. You're talking about a seperate criticism of the FWD.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
logicrules
Posts: 1,721
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/14/2013 10:29:08 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/14/2013 10:14:46 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
Since you self-identify as Catholic logicrules, and Catholics have teachings on the nature of evil, I question whether you're actually just a troll.

Catholic Doctrine teaches that Evil subsist in Satan and He acts upon Man. Irrelevant to the discourse. I doubt that is the definition used here. But go ahead with the troll nonsense.
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/14/2013 10:30:40 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/14/2013 10:14:05 PM, logicrules wrote:
At 3/14/2013 10:09:41 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 3/14/2013 10:00:46 PM, logicrules wrote:
At 3/14/2013 9:53:15 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 3/14/2013 9:46:13 PM, logicrules wrote:
At 3/14/2013 9:45:00 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 3/14/2013 9:41:42 PM, logicrules wrote:

What if there is no evil?

There is evil.

Are you not assigning your desires to actions, thereby making them evil?

No.
Name one evil, I know of none.

The rape, torture and murder of a child.

interesting, is the and conjunctive, or did you mean or? Rape is forced sexual intercourse so force is evil? Muder is a crime of intention so Killing a human s OK? Define torture....I found calculus to be torture.

Still not getting the Evil....is Evil a thing or is it a designation?

...you can't be serious. Is your whole argument gong to be based on equivocation? If so, I'm not going to bother.

No...it is based on differentiation. I accept that there are criminal acts considered reprehensible by society. Are you equating illegal with Evil, or it that I am supposed to know what you mean even if the way you write it isnt what you mean?

No...not all illegal acts are evils, just as not all evils are illegal.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
logicrules
Posts: 1,721
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/14/2013 10:30:47 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/14/2013 10:21:14 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 3/14/2013 10:19:39 PM, logicrules wrote:
At 3/14/2013 10:11:23 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
Also, what does any of this have to do with the topic at hand?

An affirmative defense is applicable only when confronting an actual affirmative. Free Will is a theological construct having to do with agency. Evil is just a term as far as I can tell to refer to all those things someone dislikes. Most everything is evil to someone. Even soda is Evil in some place.

Your church teaches that sin is evil. Go with that.

Ok...lets...Sin is universal and between the individual and God.
muzebreak
Posts: 2,781
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/14/2013 10:31:50 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/14/2013 10:26:53 PM, logicrules wrote:

I did not infer,,,I used English

Please explain.

and no I do not concede or agree. In fact, applying your definition it can not be determined by anyone other that the sufferer, subjective.

I'm sorry, which definition would this be? Because I don't remember giving a definition that would make this true.

I do not think suffering evil....regardless of the modifier.

Do you think that murder is immoral?

Evil or immoral? Which Morality shall I apply? Let's stick to evil. Murder is not Evil...I think it is wrong.

Please answer the question, and do not try and cop out by asking "what morality?". The obvious implication of asking your opinion, is that I want you to use your own morality. Which, considering you are Christian, is laid out clearly in the bible.

I did not inver I merely read

Please explain how you read something that was never said.

unnecessary evil. You explained, your idea of unnesessary, I used that as your definition. Nest time I shall look for the genus species and specific difference form.

I never explained my idea of necessary. I explained where needs come from, but I never defined anything except evil.
"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/14/2013 10:34:18 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/14/2013 10:29:08 PM, logicrules wrote:
At 3/14/2013 10:14:46 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
Since you self-identify as Catholic logicrules, and Catholics have teachings on the nature of evil, I question whether you're actually just a troll.

Catholic Doctrine teaches that Evil subsist in Satan and He acts upon Man. Irrelevant to the discourse. I doubt that is the definition used here. But go ahead with the troll nonsense.

Is that right? That's be a doctrine about the source of evil, not what evil is in any case.

http://www.newadvent.org...
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!