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Question for Christians

omelet
Posts: 416
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11/8/2009 10:47:00 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Is it preferable for a masochist to sin and avoid redemption in an effort to experience the pain of hell?

This is an extremely important question, as it determines whether or not I tell Christians I'm a masochist but thanks anyway when they try to convert me.
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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11/10/2009 3:24:30 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Are there even any Christians on this site? I get the impression it's just a bunch of Atheists.

Ok, that wasn't serious btw. Of course there's Christians. xD
Kleptin
Posts: 5,095
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11/10/2009 5:07:12 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Selective pressure for this ecosystem is intelligence. Most Christians die out for that reason. But the ones that remain are very, very intelligent.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
Alex
Posts: 2,058
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11/10/2009 5:24:28 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
There are about 8-10 of us that have been on the site for a long-ish amount of time and have maintained consistent activity.
Why kill people who kill people to show that killing people is wrong?
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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11/10/2009 11:20:39 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/10/2009 5:24:28 PM, alex_hanson911 wrote:
There are about 8-10 of us that have been on the site for a long-ish amount of time and have maintained consistent activity.

Proof that a majority are simply opposed to logic :D
President of DDO
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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11/10/2009 11:21:13 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/10/2009 5:07:12 PM, Kleptin wrote:
Selective pressure for this ecosystem is intelligence. Most Christians die out for that reason. But the ones that remain are very, very intelligent.

Hasty generalization.
President of DDO
BiigDogg
Posts: 25
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11/11/2009 1:51:54 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/8/2009 10:47:00 PM, omelet wrote:
Is it preferable for a masochist to sin and avoid redemption in an effort to experience the pain of hell?

This is an extremely important question, as it determines whether or not I tell Christians I'm a masochist but thanks anyway when they try to convert me.

I assume, that hells only purpose to bring its occupants misery. If you define masochist as a person who takes pleasure in being abused or dominated (Definition from Merrian-Webster Online), then I believe hell would not provide any pain or abuse, but utter generousity and passiveness to a masochist.
banker
Posts: 1,370
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11/12/2009 4:19:01 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
If you would be a real masochist you would submit to islam...!
the most important source for muslim Arabs:

"And thereafter We [Allah] said to the Children of Israel: 'Dwell securely in the Promised Land. And when the last warning will come to pass, we will gather you together in a mingled crowd'.".

- Qur'an 17:104 -

Any sincere muslim must recognize the Land they call "Palestine" as the Jewish Homeland, according to the book considered by muslims to be the most sacred word and Allah's ultimate revelation.

Ibn Khaldun, one of the most creditable
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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11/13/2009 8:59:25 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/12/2009 4:19:01 AM, banker wrote:
If you would be a real masochist you would submit to islam...!

Ignorant.
President of DDO
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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11/13/2009 9:01:18 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/12/2009 4:19:01 AM, banker wrote:
If you would be a real masochist you would submit to islam...!
So if you don't want to be a real masochist, you convert to Islam? Alright I thought you wrote something else. . .
omelet
Posts: 416
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11/13/2009 2:01:33 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/10/2009 5:07:12 PM, Kleptin wrote:
Selective pressure for this ecosystem is intelligence. Most Christians die out for that reason. But the ones that remain are very, very intelligent.

Has a signature talking about GodSands.

How ironic.
omelet
Posts: 416
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11/13/2009 2:02:34 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/12/2009 4:19:01 AM, banker wrote:
If you would be a real masochist you would submit to islam...!
A rational person would not submit to Islam, or to Christianity, unless they had evidence that the claims of said religion were true.
BiigDogg
Posts: 25
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11/14/2009 4:42:49 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/13/2009 2:02:34 PM, omelet wrote:
At 11/12/2009 4:19:01 AM, banker wrote:
If you would be a real masochist you would submit to islam...!
A rational person would not submit to Islam, or to Christianity, unless they had evidence that the claims of said religion were true.

No... we should just let go of our natural ability to rationale and just listen and go out of our way to believe said religion... Ahman

Thats what many religions ask of us.
rawrxqueen
Posts: 32
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11/17/2009 6:31:46 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
i asked the ppl at the church i go to what proof they had that god existsts besides the bibe. they said "because i can feel it." it really made me mad. i said "PROOF"
InquireTruth
Posts: 723
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11/18/2009 9:46:04 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/17/2009 6:31:46 AM, rawrxqueen wrote:
i asked the ppl at the church i go to what proof they had that god existsts besides the bibe. they said "because i can feel it." it really made me mad. i said "PROOF"

It's too bad that the feelings of others make you so mad. The way you parsed your first sentence indicates that you concede the Bible as proof. Nevertheless, it seems you, like so many before you, have irreverently (and perhaps ignorantly) conflated proof and evidence. Where is the "PROOF" of any epistemic framework?

On a tangential note, I think feeling is a remarkable indicator of truth (though leery one must be, for the heart can be deceptive). To FEEL comforted and supported by arms unseen. To ask and receive. To feel strength not of your own. To feel loved. To feel the presence of unprecedented power and witness it open the ears of the deaf and unlock the legs of the lame – all in the name of one person. This is certainty NOT proof, but it is evidence and evidence that tends to be enough to confirm the inferences of those who ascribe to Christianity.
daniel_t
Posts: 16
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11/18/2009 3:52:43 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/13/2009 2:02:34 PM, omelet wrote:

A rational person would not submit to Islam, or to Christianity, unless they had evidence that the claims of said religion were true.

I'm not so sure about that. There is no objective reason to value those little green pieces of paper people keep passing around, but because we have faith in their value, commerce happens.

There may be perfectly rational reasons to join a religion even if you find their claims patently false.
Kleptin
Posts: 5,095
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11/18/2009 4:04:33 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/18/2009 3:52:43 PM, daniel_t wrote:
At 11/13/2009 2:02:34 PM, omelet wrote:

A rational person would not submit to Islam, or to Christianity, unless they had evidence that the claims of said religion were true.

I'm not so sure about that. There is no objective reason to value those little green pieces of paper people keep passing around, but because we have faith in their value, commerce happens.

There may be perfectly rational reasons to join a religion even if you find their claims patently false.

There is no faith involved in the value of money. The basis of the monetary system was founded on objectivity, the specialization of members in a society to further that society.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
omelet
Posts: 416
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11/20/2009 1:57:22 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/18/2009 3:52:43 PM, daniel_t wrote:
At 11/13/2009 2:02:34 PM, omelet wrote:

A rational person would not submit to Islam, or to Christianity, unless they had evidence that the claims of said religion were true.

I'm not so sure about that. There is no objective reason to value those little green pieces of paper people keep passing around, but because we have faith in their value, commerce happens.
You don't need an objective reason to assign subjective worth. How much it's worth to you can be different than how much it's worth to me. As a federally backed currency, enough people collectively decide to value it and that spreads (money is valuable to me because people are willing to give me things for it, because they value it for likely the same reason).

There may be perfectly rational reasons to join a religion even if you find their claims patently false.
I don't think you know what "submission" is.
Using something as a tool to accomplish your goals is basically as far from submitting as you can get.
daniel_t
Posts: 16
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11/24/2009 6:05:48 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/20/2009 1:57:22 AM, omelet wrote:
At 11/18/2009 3:52:43 PM, daniel_t wrote:
At 11/13/2009 2:02:34 PM, omelet wrote:

A rational person would not submit to Islam, or to Christianity, unless they had evidence that the claims of said religion were true.

There may be perfectly rational reasons to join a religion even if you find their claims patently false.

I don't think you know what "submission" is.
Using something as a tool to accomplish your goals is basically as far from submitting as you can get.

submit (verb):
1) accept or yield to a superior force or to the authority or will of another person.
2) consent to undergo a certain treatment.

I'm not so sure of that.
Vi_Veri
Posts: 4,487
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11/24/2009 6:12:14 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/11/2009 1:51:54 AM, BiigDogg wrote:
At 11/8/2009 10:47:00 PM, omelet wrote:
Is it preferable for a masochist to sin and avoid redemption in an effort to experience the pain of hell?

This is an extremely important question, as it determines whether or not I tell Christians I'm a masochist but thanks anyway when they try to convert me.

I assume, that hells only purpose to bring its occupants misery. If you define masochist as a person who takes pleasure in being abused or dominated (Definition from Merrian-Webster Online), then I believe hell would not provide any pain or abuse, but utter generousity and passiveness to a masochist.

This sounds right : )

Hell will always morph with the sinner.
I could give a f about no haters as long as my ishes love me.
gr33k_fr33k5
Posts: 321
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11/28/2009 10:48:09 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
The "PROOF" of Christianity is all around you. . . non Christians just refuse to see it. . . it would be like a group of Evolutionary Scientists finding a cache of 1000s of intermediate fossils. . . . and the entire world just claims that they hand-made each one. Or actually what is more like it, is saying that the Two Towers never really got hit by planes at all. . . instead someone designed an in-depth video game that depicted the towers falling. .. . no one actually died silly . . . it was George Bush's fault. . . .

anyways.. . .. isn't 2000 years of testimonies. . . .of people speaking of the power of God enough proof for you .. . there are certainly more books on the Christian faith than on any Scientific Law. . . . there are more tangible experiences with this faith than any Scientific Law. . .

-------as an answer to your question--------

Hell does not torture the body. . . .it tortures your soul. . . . and just as the Bible says that no one can imagine how awesome heaven is. . . .no one can imagine the horrors of Hell. . . . Dante's Inferno doesn't come close. . . . so all you masochists, out there. . . .whatever you hate in this life. . ..your gonna get an eternity of it . . .
I am free, free indeed!

ignorance is bliss
I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
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11/28/2009 10:54:50 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/28/2009 10:48:09 AM, gr33k_fr33k5 wrote:
The "PROOF" of Christianity is all around you. . . non Christians just refuse to see it. . . it would be like a group of Evolutionary Scientists finding a cache of 1000s of intermediate fossils. . . . and the entire world just claims that they hand-made each one. Or actually what is more like it, is saying that the Two Towers never really got hit by planes at all. . . instead someone designed an in-depth video game that depicted the towers falling. .. . no one actually died silly . . . it was George Bush's fault. . . .

The bible is a 2000 year old document written by men. Stating the were divinely inspired is moot, I could say I was inspired by the Flying Spaghetti Monster to right a similar book.



anyways.. . .. isn't 2000 years of testimonies. . . .of people speaking of the power of God enough proof for you .. . there are certainly more books on the Christian faith than on any Scientific Law. . . . there are more tangible experiences with this faith than any Scientific Law. . .

Scientific laws are tested and proven.

Christian experiences are basically mindf***s.


-------as an answer to your question--------

Hell does not torture the body. . . .it tortures your soul. . . . and just as the Bible says that no one can imagine how awesome heaven is. . . .no one can imagine the horrors of Hell. . . . Dante's Inferno doesn't come close. . . . so all you masochists, out there. . . .whatever you hate in this life. . ..your gonna get an eternity of it . . .

Prove we have a soul that can be tortured.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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11/28/2009 11:07:44 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/18/2009 9:46:04 AM, InquireTruth wrote:

It's too bad that the feelings of others make you so mad. The way you parsed your first sentence indicates that you concede the Bible as proof.

I think the way she parsed her first sentence explained that she wouldn't accept the Bible as proof because it's not.

Nevertheless, it seems you, like so many before you, have irreverently (and perhaps ignorantly) conflated proof and evidence. Where is the "PROOF" of any epistemic framework?

Christianity is a made up religion stolen from paganism and used as a tool to divide and conquer over the ages. Whereas proof may be an issue in epistemology, at least people use valid logic proofs when making certain claims; Christianity can't.

On a tangential note, I think feeling is a remarkable indicator of truth (though leery one must be, for the heart can be deceptive).

Feeling is a horrible indicator of truth.

To FEEL comforted and supported by arms unseen.

Sounds delusional.

To ask and receive.

Sounds coincidental.

To feel strength not of your own.

...? Nay.

To feel loved.

Unless it's by a person of the same sex - that's a no no.

To feel the presence of unprecedented power and witness it open the ears of the deaf and unlock the legs of the lame – all in the name of one person.

LOL, it's never happened.

This is certainty NOT proof, but it is evidence and evidence that tends to be enough to confirm the inferences of those who ascribe to Christianity.

None of that is good evidence. That's like me saying the spaghetti monster god exists because I FELT its power and I prayed and prayed and said OH PLZ SPAGHETTI GOD SATISFY MY HUNGER and the spaghetti god said to me, "Go now and pick up thy fork. And after you eat thine spaghetti, you will feel fulleth. Then OBEY ME! KILL IN MY NAME! CONDEMN OTHERS IN MY NAME! GIVE THE CHURCH MONEY IN MY NAME" rar rar rar. Or! Attributing random things to the spaghetti god. Lulz. It just never works, no matter how much you try to sugar coat it.
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gr33k_fr33k5
Posts: 321
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11/29/2009 6:52:46 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
The bible is a 2000 year old document written by men. Stating the were divinely inspired is moot, I could say I was inspired by the Flying Spaghetti Monster to right a similar book.

why don't you do that! and see if your book does as well as the Bible, and lasts for two thousand years. . . . maybe you could name it "the book that I wish was the Bible". . . . it would be an instant classic . ..

Christian experiences are basically mindf***s.

with one sentence you have effectively classified billions of people's testimonies. . . . good job. . . . . so then. .. how can we really believe that the two towers fell other than from testimonies . .. . the tapes COULD have been rigged you know. ..

Prove we have a soul that can be tortured.

this forum topic takes the truth of Hell for granted, so your point is moot . . ..
I am free, free indeed!

ignorance is bliss
gr33k_fr33k5
Posts: 321
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11/29/2009 6:59:51 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
To feel the presence of unprecedented power and witness it open the ears of the deaf and unlock the legs of the lame – all in the name of one person.

LOL, it's never happened.

never happened? I saw it with my own eyes not a week ago. . . .just because you never saw it doesn't mean its not true. . . . . so lets see how many people get healed when you pray to your spaghetti monster god . . . . you can dismiss me as a liar, but I do believe that that is a fallacy unless you have proof. . ..
I am free, free indeed!

ignorance is bliss
I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
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11/29/2009 7:59:51 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/29/2009 6:52:46 AM, gr33k_fr33k5 wrote:
The bible is a 2000 year old document written by men. Stating the were divinely inspired is moot, I could say I was inspired by the Flying Spaghetti Monster to right a similar book.

why don't you do that! and see if your book does as well as the Bible, and lasts for two thousand years. . . . maybe you could name it "the book that I wish was the Bible". . . . it would be an instant classic . ..

Lulz, the idiocy of the uneducated masses does not mean a book is successful. Mao's Little Red book claims more sales than the bible. Does that mean Communism is right? http://en.wikipedia.org...


Christian experiences are basically mindf***s.

with one sentence you have effectively classified billions of people's testimonies. . . . good job. . . . . so then. .. how can we really believe that the two towers fell other than from testimonies . .. . the tapes COULD have been rigged you know. ..

Billions? More like thousands. Besides, the lack of towers proves the towers aren't there anymore. You cannot however prove the "God experience" is nothing more than a hallucination.


Prove we have a soul that can be tortured.

this forum topic takes the truth of Hell for granted, so your point is moot . . ..

No, actually it was a humorous thread. If you can prove Hell and subsequently Heaven I'll presuppose it.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
Zetsubou
Posts: 4,933
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11/29/2009 9:48:11 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/28/2009 10:54:50 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
The bible is a 2000 year old document written by men. Stating the were divinely inspired is moot, I could say I was inspired by the Flying Spaghetti Monster to right a similar book.

The same way you negate statements with the question of Proof. Prove the Bible is a 2000 year old document written by men. You can't.

Scientific laws are tested and proven.

Christian experiences are basically mindf***s.

Again, prove Christian experiences are basically mindf***s.

As for Scientific laws they can be proven, true. Yet how does this negate the existence of God?
+Before you reply, evolution and early Cosmetological ideas are theories not laws.

Prove we have a soul that can be tortured.

Prove a soul can't be tortured. Prove this and you are my idol.

Don't logical inconsistency BS me again.
'sup DDO -- july 2013
johngriswald
Posts: 1,294
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11/29/2009 10:13:55 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/10/2009 5:24:28 PM, alex_hanson911 wrote:
There are about 9-11 of us that have been on the site for a long-ish amount of time and have maintained consistent activity.

fix'd
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