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muzebreak
Posts: 2,781
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3/15/2013 5:30:35 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I was out hanging laundry on the line, when this thought came to me. And as I had a supply of theists on hand, I felt I should direct this question at them.

First off, let's assume that whatever religious practice it is that you ascribe to, is true. My question is, why? Why would a god want for you to practice those things? Why would a god want you to worship him, or pray to him, or love him, or even care about him? I mean sure, those things feel nice to us, but why would a god care? Like with Muslims, why would god care if you prayed several times a day while facing Mecca? What does it matter? And with Christians, why would a god care to get you to eat the flesh and blood of his only begotten son? And Jews, why would he care how you prepare your food? What is it about these things that make them noteworthy to an all powerful being? What is the point of going to church, or temple, or mosque? Just to worship a being who would be as affected by this worship, as we would by the worship of the billions of microscopic organisms on the planet. What is the point in your religious practices?

Well, this turned into a bit more of a rant then I expected, but I am really confused by this premis.
"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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3/15/2013 5:43:38 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/15/2013 5:30:35 AM, muzebreak wrote:
I was out hanging laundry on the line, when this thought came to me. And as I had a supply of theists on hand, I felt I should direct this question at them.


First off, let's assume that whatever religious practice it is that you ascribe to, is true. My question is, why? Why would a god want for you to practice those things? Why would a god want you to worship him, or pray to him, or love him, or even care about him? I mean sure, those things feel nice to us, but why would a god care? Like with Muslims, why would god care if you prayed several times a day while facing Mecca? What does it matter? And with Christians, why would a god care to get you to eat the flesh and blood of his only begotten son? And Jews, why would he care how you prepare your food? What is it about these things that make them noteworthy to an all powerful being? What is the point of going to church, or temple, or mosque? Just to worship a being who would be as affected by this worship, as we would by the worship of the billions of microscopic organisms on the planet. What is the point in your religious practices?

Well, this turned into a bit more of a rant then I expected, but I am really confused by this premis.

This is why I think paganism is slightly more rational than creator-god religions. Pagan gods don't really care about humans in general and did not create the universe. You have to convince them to like you.
muzebreak
Posts: 2,781
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3/15/2013 5:48:15 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/15/2013 5:37:02 AM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
Why not? (You knew this was coming.)

Indeed I did, though I would be lying if I said I had no hope that people weren't stupid enough to come back with that.
"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.
muzebreak
Posts: 2,781
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3/15/2013 5:49:30 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/15/2013 5:43:38 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 3/15/2013 5:30:35 AM, muzebreak wrote:
I was out hanging laundry on the line, when this thought came to me. And as I had a supply of theists on hand, I felt I should direct this question at them.


First off, let's assume that whatever religious practice it is that you ascribe to, is true. My question is, why? Why would a god want for you to practice those things? Why would a god want you to worship him, or pray to him, or love him, or even care about him? I mean sure, those things feel nice to us, but why would a god care? Like with Muslims, why would god care if you prayed several times a day while facing Mecca? What does it matter? And with Christians, why would a god care to get you to eat the flesh and blood of his only begotten son? And Jews, why would he care how you prepare your food? What is it about these things that make them noteworthy to an all powerful being? What is the point of going to church, or temple, or mosque? Just to worship a being who would be as affected by this worship, as we would by the worship of the billions of microscopic organisms on the planet. What is the point in your religious practices?

Well, this turned into a bit more of a rant then I expected, but I am really confused by this premis.

This is why I think paganism is slightly more rational than creator-god religions. Pagan gods don't really care about humans in general and did not create the universe. You have to convince them to like you.

Yes, it's why if I were to believe in a god, I could only believe in a deistic one.
"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.
Eitan_Zohar
Posts: 2,697
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3/15/2013 5:50:25 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/15/2013 5:43:38 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 3/15/2013 5:30:35 AM, muzebreak wrote:
I was out hanging laundry on the line, when this thought came to me. And as I had a supply of theists on hand, I felt I should direct this question at them.


First off, let's assume that whatever religious practice it is that you ascribe to, is true. My question is, why? Why would a god want for you to practice those things? Why would a god want you to worship him, or pray to him, or love him, or even care about him? I mean sure, those things feel nice to us, but why would a god care? Like with Muslims, why would god care if you prayed several times a day while facing Mecca? What does it matter? And with Christians, why would a god care to get you to eat the flesh and blood of his only begotten son? And Jews, why would he care how you prepare your food? What is it about these things that make them noteworthy to an all powerful being? What is the point of going to church, or temple, or mosque? Just to worship a being who would be as affected by this worship, as we would by the worship of the billions of microscopic organisms on the planet. What is the point in your religious practices?

Well, this turned into a bit more of a rant then I expected, but I am really confused by this premis.

This is why I think paganism is slightly more rational than creator-god religions. Pagan gods don't really care about humans in general and did not create the universe. You have to convince them to like you.

Right... that's your reason worshiping Athena and Aphrodite? Or was it something else.
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book."
suttichart.denpruektham
Posts: 1,115
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3/15/2013 5:58:38 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Not all religion worship a god, some worship fire for example.

In many case, assume that whatever god they worshiped do exist, the god might just want to be warship for money :P

Seriously, the Chinese burned false money as an offering to god, Hindu gods also demand offering for the blessing they gave, I think it is also the same for western paganism. Why the god want human worship, because they offered scarifies. Very simple.
muzebreak
Posts: 2,781
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3/15/2013 6:08:02 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/15/2013 5:58:38 AM, suttichart.denpruektham wrote:
Not all religion worship a god, some worship fire for example.

This was specifically directed at theists.


In many case, assume that whatever god they worshiped do exist, the god might just want to be warship for money :P

What would god want with a starship?


Seriously, the Chinese burned false money as an offering to god,

Incorrect. They burn fake money and valuables at the new year, because they believe it will go to their ancestors.

Hindu gods also demand offering for the blessing they gave, I think it is also the same for western paganism. Why the god want human worship, because they offered scarifies. Very simple.

I'm confused, could you clarify what you meant here?
"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.
Kinesis
Posts: 3,667
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3/15/2013 7:27:23 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
To guestimate what a theist should say, god is the ultimate being who wants to hang around with you for eternity in heaven. Worship is the proper thing to do in a relationship with the perfect being. You're warming up for your relationship in heaven with god by worshiping her down here.
natoast
Posts: 204
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3/15/2013 8:56:41 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/15/2013 7:27:23 AM, Kinesis wrote:
To guestimate what a theist should say, god is the ultimate being who wants to hang around with you for eternity in heaven. Worship is the proper thing to do in a relationship with the perfect being. You're warming up for your relationship in heaven with god by worshiping her down here.

That answer really wouldn't explain anything because it still leaves the question as to why god actually wants it. I bet that a theist would explain it by saying god doesn't want us to worship him, we want to worship him, and all he wants us to do is believe. But that brings up the question as to why he even cares if we believe in him. Speaking of which, I think it's pretty funny no theists have posted yet.
AlwaysMoreThanYou
Posts: 2,900
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3/15/2013 9:08:46 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
No idea.
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
Eitan_Zohar
Posts: 2,697
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3/15/2013 9:15:37 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Look, dude, do you know how many philosophers have tried to answer this question? At least try.
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book."
Kinesis
Posts: 3,667
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3/15/2013 9:23:22 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/15/2013 8:56:41 AM, natoast wrote:
At 3/15/2013 7:27:23 AM, Kinesis wrote:
To guestimate what a theist should say, god is the ultimate being who wants to hang around with you for eternity in heaven. Worship is the proper thing to do in a relationship with the perfect being. You're warming up for your relationship in heaven with god by worshiping her down here.

That answer really wouldn't explain anything because it still leaves the question as to why god actually wants it. I bet that a theist would explain it by saying god doesn't want us to worship him, we want to worship him, and all he wants us to do is believe. But that brings up the question as to why he even cares if we believe in him. Speaking of which, I think it's pretty funny no theists have posted yet.

Maybe he just wants it, like, as part of his nature? I mean humans naturally want to be in relationships with other humans, maybe god naturally wants relationships with the people he creates.
Kinesis
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3/15/2013 9:27:54 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/15/2013 9:23:22 AM, Kinesis wrote:
At 3/15/2013 8:56:41 AM, natoast wrote:
At 3/15/2013 7:27:23 AM, Kinesis wrote:
To guestimate what a theist should say, god is the ultimate being who wants to hang around with you for eternity in heaven. Worship is the proper thing to do in a relationship with the perfect being. You're warming up for your relationship in heaven with god by worshiping her down here.

That answer really wouldn't explain anything because it still leaves the question as to why god actually wants it. I bet that a theist would explain it by saying god doesn't want us to worship him, we want to worship him, and all he wants us to do is believe. But that brings up the question as to why he even cares if we believe in him. Speaking of which, I think it's pretty funny no theists have posted yet.

Maybe he just wants it, like, as part of his nature? I mean humans naturally want to be in relationships with other humans, maybe god naturally wants relationships with the people he creates.

I wish he'd fvcking TELL ME if that's the case. The imaginary bastard.
muzebreak
Posts: 2,781
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3/15/2013 9:52:13 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/15/2013 9:08:46 AM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
No idea.

Why is it that the only theist to reply, is also the only person with no answer?
"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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3/15/2013 10:05:44 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
To worship, love, and praise the source of all value and everything good seems a proper response to God.
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bladerunner060
Posts: 7,126
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3/15/2013 10:08:12 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/15/2013 10:05:44 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
To worship, love, and praise the source of all value and everything good seems a proper response to God.

I don't know, man, 'cause the converse would seem to be to fear, hate, and insult the source of all loss and everything bad...
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logicrules
Posts: 1,721
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3/15/2013 10:29:00 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/15/2013 5:30:35 AM, muzebreak wrote:
I was out hanging laundry on the line, when this thought came to me. And as I had a supply of theists on hand, I felt I should direct this question at them.


First off, let's assume that whatever religious practice it is that you ascribe to, is true. My question is, why? Why would a god want for you to practice those things? Why would a god want you to worship him, or pray to him, or love him, or even care about him? I mean sure, those things feel nice to us, but why would a god care? Like with Muslims, why would god care if you prayed several times a day while facing Mecca? What does it matter? And with Christians, why would a god care to get you to eat the flesh and blood of his only begotten son? And Jews, why would he care how you prepare your food? What is it about these things that make them noteworthy to an all powerful being? What is the point of going to church, or temple, or mosque? Just to worship a being who would be as affected by this worship, as we would by the worship of the billions of microscopic organisms on the planet. What is the point in your religious practices?

Well, this turned into a bit more of a rant then I expected, but I am really confused by this premis.

Since my ascribed religious practice does not hold to your delineation of those things you would question it is difficult to answer. Why would a mother want respect from her children? Why would a child want love from their mother?
muzebreak
Posts: 2,781
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3/15/2013 10:50:08 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/15/2013 10:29:00 AM, logicrules wrote:
At 3/15/2013 5:30:35 AM, muzebreak wrote:
I was out hanging laundry on the line, when this thought came to me. And as I had a supply of theists on hand, I felt I should direct this question at them.


First off, let's assume that whatever religious practice it is that you ascribe to, is true. My question is, why? Why would a god want for you to practice those things? Why would a god want you to worship him, or pray to him, or love him, or even care about him? I mean sure, those things feel nice to us, but why would a god care? Like with Muslims, why would god care if you prayed several times a day while facing Mecca? What does it matter? And with Christians, why would a god care to get you to eat the flesh and blood of his only begotten son? And Jews, why would he care how you prepare your food? What is it about these things that make them noteworthy to an all powerful being? What is the point of going to church, or temple, or mosque? Just to worship a being who would be as affected by this worship, as we would by the worship of the billions of microscopic organisms on the planet. What is the point in your religious practices?

Well, this turned into a bit more of a rant then I expected, but I am really confused by this premis.

Since my ascribed religious practice does not hold to your delineation of those things you would question it is difficult to answer. Why would a mother want respect from her children? Why would a child want love from their mother?

False analogy, god is not human and therefore cannot be considered to have the same mindset as a human.

You self identify as catholic on this website, either you are not catholic, or you have just admitted to lacking belief in transsubstation and its importance to the catholic dogma. In doing so, you have defied the doctrine of the Eucharist, and become an apostate to Catholicism and Christianity.
"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.
muzebreak
Posts: 2,781
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3/15/2013 10:55:14 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/15/2013 10:05:44 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
To worship, love, and praise the source of all value and everything good seems a proper response to God.

While I disagree, that is beside the point. My question was not why should we worship god, but why god feels we should worship him. Many people have done things befitting them of being worshiped, to an extent. For instance, those who sacrificed themselves to free the world from the nazi war machine. But if one them got on TV and started ordering people to worship them or they would be punished, then personally, I would choose punishment. Anyone who wants to be worshiped, doesn't deserve worship.
"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.
logicrules
Posts: 1,721
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3/15/2013 10:55:18 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/15/2013 10:50:08 AM, muzebreak wrote:
At 3/15/2013 10:29:00 AM, logicrules wrote:
At 3/15/2013 5:30:35 AM, muzebreak wrote:
I was out hanging laundry on the line, when this thought came to me. And as I had a supply of theists on hand, I felt I should direct this question at them.


First off, let's assume that whatever religious practice it is that you ascribe to, is true. My question is, why? Why would a god want for you to practice those things? Why would a god want you to worship him, or pray to him, or love him, or even care about him? I mean sure, those things feel nice to us, but why would a god care? Like with Muslims, why would god care if you prayed several times a day while facing Mecca? What does it matter? And with Christians, why would a god care to get you to eat the flesh and blood of his only begotten son? And Jews, why would he care how you prepare your food? What is it about these things that make them noteworthy to an all powerful being? What is the point of going to church, or temple, or mosque? Just to worship a being who would be as affected by this worship, as we would by the worship of the billions of microscopic organisms on the planet. What is the point in your religious practices?

Well, this turned into a bit more of a rant then I expected, but I am really confused by this premis.

Since my ascribed religious practice does not hold to your delineation of those things you would question it is difficult to answer. Why would a mother want respect from her children? Why would a child want love from their mother?

False analogy, god is not human and therefore cannot be considered to have the same mindset as a human.

You self identify as catholic on this website, either you are not catholic, or you have just admitted to lacking belief in transsubstation and its importance to the catholic dogma. In doing so, you have defied the doctrine of the Eucharist, and become an apostate to Catholicism and Christianity.

Transubstantiation is Doctrine, (not dogma) applied to Real Presence, (Dogma). I was not making an analogy I was merely asking a question. I accept as a reasonable theology the accidence of Aristotle as applied by Aquinas. Do you often make stuff up?
muzebreak
Posts: 2,781
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3/15/2013 11:10:39 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/15/2013 10:55:18 AM, logicrules wrote:
At 3/15/2013 10:50:08 AM, muzebreak wrote:
At 3/15/2013 10:29:00 AM, logicrules wrote:
At 3/15/2013 5:30:35 AM, muzebreak wrote:
I was out hanging laundry on the line, when this thought came to me. And as I had a supply of theists on hand, I felt I should direct this question at them.


First off, let's assume that whatever religious practice it is that you ascribe to, is true. My question is, why? Why would a god want for you to practice those things? Why would a god want you to worship him, or pray to him, or love him, or even care about him? I mean sure, those things feel nice to us, but why would a god care? Like with Muslims, why would god care if you prayed several times a day while facing Mecca? What does it matter? And with Christians, why would a god care to get you to eat the flesh and blood of his only begotten son? And Jews, why would he care how you prepare your food? What is it about these things that make them noteworthy to an all powerful being? What is the point of going to church, or temple, or mosque? Just to worship a being who would be as affected by this worship, as we would by the worship of the billions of microscopic organisms on the planet. What is the point in your religious practices?

Well, this turned into a bit more of a rant then I expected, but I am really confused by this premis.

Since my ascribed religious practice does not hold to your delineation of those things you would question it is difficult to answer. Why would a mother want respect from her children? Why would a child want love from their mother?

False analogy, god is not human and therefore cannot be considered to have the same mindset as a human.

You self identify as catholic on this website, either you are not catholic, or you have just admitted to lacking belief in transsubstation and its importance to the catholic dogma. In doing so, you have defied the doctrine of the Eucharist, and become an apostate to Catholicism and Christianity.

Transubstantiation is Doctrine, (not dogma)

Oh, yeah, you really go me there. It's a shame that doctrine isn't just a synonym for dogma. Oh wait, that's exactly what it is.

applied to Real Presence, (Dogma). I was not making an analogy I was merely asking a question.

Yeah, just like you weren't inferring before, you were just reading into my words to see things that weren't written there.

I accept as a reasonable theology the accidence of Aristotle as applied by Aquinas.

The relevance of this being.......

Do you often make stuff up?

Yes, in fact. I am a compulsive liar in the real world. One of the reasons I use the Internet is that it allows me to break free from this.

I notice how you did not counter the claims that you disbelieve of the doctrine of the Eucharist and transsubstation.
"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.
logicrules
Posts: 1,721
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3/15/2013 11:19:37 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/15/2013 11:10:39 AM, muzebreak wrote:
At 3/15/2013 10:55:18 AM, logicrules wrote:
At 3/15/2013 10:50:08 AM, muzebreak wrote:
At 3/15/2013 10:29:00 AM, logicrules wrote:
At 3/15/2013 5:30:35 AM, muzebreak wrote:
I was out hanging laundry on the line, when this thought came to me. And as I had a supply of theists on hand, I felt I should direct this question at them.


First off, let's assume that whatever religious practice it is that you ascribe to, is true. My question is, why? Why would a god want for you to practice those things? Why would a god want you to worship him, or pray to him, or love him, or even care about him? I mean sure, those things feel nice to us, but why would a god care? Like with Muslims, why would god care if you prayed several times a day while facing Mecca? What does it matter? And with Christians, why would a god care to get you to eat the flesh and blood of his only begotten son? And Jews, why would he care how you prepare your food? What is it about these things that make them noteworthy to an all powerful being? What is the point of going to church, or temple, or mosque? Just to worship a being who would be as affected by this worship, as we would by the worship of the billions of microscopic organisms on the planet. What is the point in your religious practices?

Well, this turned into a bit more of a rant then I expected, but I am really confused by this premis.

Since my ascribed religious practice does not hold to your delineation of those things you would question it is difficult to answer. Why would a mother want respect from her children? Why would a child want love from their mother?

False analogy, god is not human and therefore cannot be considered to have the same mindset as a human.

You self identify as catholic on this website, either you are not catholic, or you have just admitted to lacking belief in transsubstation and its importance to the catholic dogma. In doing so, you have defied the doctrine of the Eucharist, and become an apostate to Catholicism and Christianity.

Transubstantiation is Doctrine, (not dogma)

Oh, yeah, you really go me there. It's a shame that doctrine isn't just a synonym for dogma. Oh wait, that's exactly what it is.


applied to Real Presence, (Dogma). I was not making an analogy I was merely asking a question.

Yeah, just like you weren't inferring before, you were just reading into my words to see things that weren't written there.

I accept as a reasonable theology the accidence of Aristotle as applied by Aquinas.

The relevance of this being.......

Do you often make stuff up?


Yes, in fact. I am a compulsive liar in the real world. One of the reasons I use the Internet is that it allows me to break free from this.

I notice how you did not counter the claims that you disbelieve of the doctrine of the Eucharist and transsubstation.

Where shall I begin? The RCC has long taught, even in Ireland, that Dogma is never changing ad Doctrine is open for discussion. One need look no farther than the magesterium and its consideration of Transignification as a possible alternate to Transubstantiation to know the difference. Even the most simple of the catholic educated by Jesuits knows that Aquinas is but a re-wording of Aristotle adopted in the Reformation as a theology of the RCC. As to your admissions I recommend to you the Principle of non contradiction.

I have found that those with little education think they know alot while those with much know they know very little. We shall wait with the patience of Job for your speedy return to Holy Mother Church.
suttichart.denpruektham
Posts: 1,115
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3/15/2013 11:30:35 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/15/2013 6:08:02 AM, muzebreak wrote:
At 3/15/2013 5:58:38 AM, suttichart.denpruektham wrote:
Not all religion worship a god, some worship fire for example.

This was specifically directed at theists.


In many case, assume that whatever god they worshiped do exist, the god might just want to be warship for money :P

What would god want with a starship?


Seriously, the Chinese burned false money as an offering to god,

Incorrect. They burn fake money and valuables at the new year, because they believe it will go to their ancestors.

Hindu gods also demand offering for the blessing they gave, I think it is also the same for western paganism. Why the god want human worship, because they offered scarifies. Very simple.

I'm confused, could you clarify what you meant here?

For Chinese, ancestor spirit is technically god. They are object of worship and faith the same way pagan god are to it believer. And my bad, it is a poor choice of word, when I said false money, I mean paper money.

The Hidu gods acted in a way that every shine is technically a blessing retailer. They have specific blessing that is sold to a mortal who purchase it with offering. For example there is god of agriculture that you can demand for rain or fertility,or god of commerce which you can ask for business success for a price, like specific type of flower, fresh coconut juice, or even a theatrical show to be performed at its shine.

Note that I have nothing against it though, it just how thing is around here, and I just rationalize it the way as

1.(some) Gods demand material resource from mortal
2. Currency is representing material resource
3. therefore god who demand material resource = God demand currency.
muzebreak
Posts: 2,781
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3/15/2013 11:34:54 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/15/2013 11:19:37 AM, logicrules wrote:
At 3/15/2013 11:10:39 AM, muzebreak wrote:
At 3/15/2013 10:55:18 AM, logicrules wrote:
At 3/15/2013 10:50:08 AM, muzebreak wrote:
At 3/15/2013 10:29:00 AM, logicrules wrote:
At 3/15/2013 5:30:35 AM, muzebreak wrote:
I was out hanging laundry on the line, when this thought came to me. And as I had a supply of theists on hand, I felt I should direct this question at them.


First off, let's assume that whatever religious practice it is that you ascribe to, is true. My question is, why? Why would a god want for you to practice those things? Why would a god want you to worship him, or pray to him, or love him, or even care about him? I mean sure, those things feel nice to us, but why would a god care? Like with Muslims, why would god care if you prayed several times a day while facing Mecca? What does it matter? And with Christians, why would a god care to get you to eat the flesh and blood of his only begotten son? And Jews, why would he care how you prepare your food? What is it about these things that make them noteworthy to an all powerful being? What is the point of going to church, or temple, or mosque? Just to worship a being who would be as affected by this worship, as we would by the worship of the billions of microscopic organisms on the planet. What is the point in your religious practices?

Well, this turned into a bit more of a rant then I expected, but I am really confused by this premis.

Since my ascribed religious practice does not hold to your delineation of those things you would question it is difficult to answer. Why would a mother want respect from her children? Why would a child want love from their mother?

False analogy, god is not human and therefore cannot be considered to have the same mindset as a human.

You self identify as catholic on this website, either you are not catholic, or you have just admitted to lacking belief in transsubstation and its importance to the catholic dogma. In doing so, you have defied the doctrine of the Eucharist, and become an apostate to Catholicism and Christianity.

Transubstantiation is Doctrine, (not dogma)

Oh, yeah, you really go me there. It's a shame that doctrine isn't just a synonym for dogma. Oh wait, that's exactly what it is.


applied to Real Presence, (Dogma). I was not making an analogy I was merely asking a question.

Yeah, just like you weren't inferring before, you were just reading into my words to see things that weren't written there.

I accept as a reasonable theology the accidence of Aristotle as applied by Aquinas.

The relevance of this being.......

Do you often make stuff up?


Yes, in fact. I am a compulsive liar in the real world. One of the reasons I use the Internet is that it allows me to break free from this.

I notice how you did not counter the claims that you disbelieve of the doctrine of the Eucharist and transsubstation.

Where shall I begin? The RCC has long taught, even in Ireland, that Dogma is never changing ad Doctrine is open for discussion.

Isn't it interesting that I have never willingly been a part of the RCC? It is quite clear to anyone who has conversed with me on this site, that I am anti-religion. So please, do tell, what is it that would make you think I would abide the Catholics distinction between dogma and doctrine, when I am not catholic? Why did you think I would choose a religious source rather then a dictionary?

One need look no farther than the magesterium and its consideration of Transignification as a possible alternate to Transubstantiation to know the difference.

Yes, because I follow the magesteriums twitter page. How could I have missed that tweet.

Even the most simple of the catholic educated by Jesuits knows that Aquinas is but a re-wording of Aristotle adopted in the Reformation as a theology of the RCC.

Well, good thing I'm no catholic. So I guess this doesn't apply to me.

As to your admissions I recommend to you the Principle of non contradiction.

And what admissions would those be?


I have found that those with little education think they know alot while those with much know they know very little. We shall wait with the patience of Job for your speedy return to Holy Mother Church.

And I've found that those with much education are generally very arrogant. Especially for people who got conned into, as will hunting put it, paying a hundred and fifty grand for an education they could have got for a dollar fifty in late fees at the library. So why don't you just go suck an egg mister high and mighty.
"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.
muzebreak
Posts: 2,781
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3/15/2013 11:37:00 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/15/2013 11:30:35 AM, suttichart.denpruektham wrote:
At 3/15/2013 6:08:02 AM, muzebreak wrote:
At 3/15/2013 5:58:38 AM, suttichart.denpruektham wrote:
Not all religion worship a god, some worship fire for example.

This was specifically directed at theists.


In many case, assume that whatever god they worshiped do exist, the god might just want to be warship for money :P

What would god want with a starship?


Seriously, the Chinese burned false money as an offering to god,

Incorrect. They burn fake money and valuables at the new year, because they believe it will go to their ancestors.

Hindu gods also demand offering for the blessing they gave, I think it is also the same for western paganism. Why the god want human worship, because they offered scarifies. Very simple.

I'm confused, could you clarify what you meant here?

For Chinese, ancestor spirit is technically god.

No, it's not. I don't know where the heck you got the idea that it is.

They are object of worship and faith the same way pagan god are to it believer. And my bad, it is a poor choice of word, when I said false money, I mean paper money.

The Hidu gods acted in a way that every shine is technically a blessing retailer. They have specific blessing that is sold to a mortal who purchase it with offering. For example there is god of agriculture that you can demand for rain or fertility,or god of commerce which you can ask for business success for a price, like specific type of flower, fresh coconut juice, or even a theatrical show to be performed at its shine.

Note that I have nothing against it though, it just how thing is around here, and I just rationalize it the way as

1.(some) Gods demand material resource from mortal
2. Currency is representing material resource
3. therefore god who demand material resource = God demand currency.

Again I say, what would god want with a starship?
"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.
Radar
Posts: 424
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3/15/2013 12:29:28 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/15/2013 5:30:35 AM, muzebreak wrote:
I was out hanging laundry on the line, when this thought came to me. And as I had a supply of theists on hand, I felt I should direct this question at them.


First off, let's assume that whatever religious practice it is that you ascribe to, is true. My question is, why? Why would a god want for you to practice those things? Why would a god want you to worship him, or pray to him, or love him, or even care about him? I mean sure, those things feel nice to us, but why would a god care? Like with Muslims, why would god care if you prayed several times a day while facing Mecca? What does it matter? And with Christians, why would a god care to get you to eat the flesh and blood of his only begotten son? And Jews, why would he care how you prepare your food? What is it about these things that make them noteworthy to an all powerful being? What is the point of going to church, or temple, or mosque? Just to worship a being who would be as affected by this worship, as we would by the worship of the billions of microscopic organisms on the planet. What is the point in your religious practices?

Well, this turned into a bit more of a rant then I expected, but I am really confused by this premis.

Why do you think religious practices are because people think God wants or requires them? I'm not Catholic, but I've been to a Catholic mass or two. It's rich with ritual and symbolism and really quite lovely. It's clear to me that, at least originally, they are simply reminders of the Divine everywhere in our lives, sort of like a fish might need reminding of the water in which it swims.
logicrules
Posts: 1,721
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3/15/2013 12:38:28 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/15/2013 11:34:54 AM, muzebreak wrote:
At 3/15/2013 11:19:37 AM, logicrules wrote:
At 3/15/2013 11:10:39 AM, muzebreak wrote:
At 3/15/2013 10:55:18 AM, logicrules wrote:
At 3/15/2013 10:50:08 AM, muzebreak wrote:
At 3/15/2013 10:29:00 AM, logicrules wrote:
At 3/15/2013 5:30:35 AM, muzebreak wrote:
I was out hanging laundry on the line, when this thought came to me. And as I had a supply of theists on hand, I felt I should direct this question at them.


First off, let's assume that whatever religious practice it is that you ascribe to, is true. My question is, why? Why would a god want for you to practice those things? Why would a god want you to worship him, or pray to him, or love him, or even care about him? I mean sure, those things feel nice to us, but why would a god care? Like with Muslims, why would god care if you prayed several times a day while facing Mecca? What does it matter? And with Christians, why would a god care to get you to eat the flesh and blood of his only begotten son? And Jews, why would he care how you prepare your food? What is it about these things that make them noteworthy to an all powerful being? What is the point of going to church, or temple, or mosque? Just to worship a being who would be as affected by this worship, as we would by the worship of the billions of microscopic organisms on the planet. What is the point in your religious practices?

Well, this turned into a bit more of a rant then I expected, but I am really confused by this premis.

Since my ascribed religious practice does not hold to your delineation of those things you would question it is difficult to answer. Why would a mother want respect from her children? Why would a child want love from their mother?

False analogy, god is not human and therefore cannot be considered to have the same mindset as a human.

You self identify as catholic on this website, either you are not catholic, or you have just admitted to lacking belief in transsubstation and its importance to the catholic dogma. In doing so, you have defied the doctrine of the Eucharist, and become an apostate to Catholicism and Christianity.

Transubstantiation is Doctrine, (not dogma)

Oh, yeah, you really go me there. It's a shame that doctrine isn't just a synonym for dogma. Oh wait, that's exactly what it is.


applied to Real Presence, (Dogma). I was not making an analogy I was merely asking a question.

Yeah, just like you weren't inferring before, you were just reading into my words to see things that weren't written there.

I accept as a reasonable theology the accidence of Aristotle as applied by Aquinas.

The relevance of this being.......

Do you often make stuff up?


Yes, in fact. I am a compulsive liar in the real world. One of the reasons I use the Internet is that it allows me to break free from this.

I notice how you did not counter the claims that you disbelieve of the doctrine of the Eucharist and transsubstation.

Where shall I begin? The RCC has long taught, even in Ireland, that Dogma is never changing ad Doctrine is open for discussion.

Isn't it interesting that I have never willingly been a part of the RCC? It is quite clear to anyone who has conversed with me on this site, that I am anti-religion. So please, do tell, what is it that would make you think I would abide the Catholics distinction between dogma and doctrine, when I am not catholic? Why did you think I would choose a religious source rather then a dictionary?

One need look no farther than the magesterium and its consideration of Transignification as a possible alternate to Transubstantiation to know the difference.

Yes, because I follow the magesteriums twitter page. How could I have missed that tweet.

Even the most simple of the catholic educated by Jesuits knows that Aquinas is but a re-wording of Aristotle adopted in the Reformation as a theology of the RCC.

Well, good thing I'm no catholic. So I guess this doesn't apply to me.

As to your admissions I recommend to you the Principle of non contradiction.

And what admissions would those be?


I have found that those with little education think they know alot while those with much know they know very little. We shall wait with the patience of Job for your speedy return to Holy Mother Church.

And I've found that those with much education are generally very arrogant. Especially for people who got conned into, as will hunting put it, paying a hundred and fifty grand for an education they could have got for a dollar fifty in late fees at the library. So why don't you just go suck an egg mister high and mighty.

Again...you missed the consideration of transignifcation because it pre-dates twitter. Your use of terms indicates a distinctly non, perhaps even anti, catholic position. As to you findings....not unusual in the adolescent male to yearn for the wisdom of his elders manifesting this desire by and through anger. Perhaps a good book by Dulles world help, or maybe even a course in Christology? I doubt you are at fault, but your understandings are NOT catholic by a long way.

As an aside...Is english your second language?
muzebreak
Posts: 2,781
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3/15/2013 12:40:48 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/15/2013 12:29:28 PM, Radar wrote:
At 3/15/2013 5:30:35 AM, muzebreak wrote:
I was out hanging laundry on the line, when this thought came to me. And as I had a supply of theists on hand, I felt I should direct this question at them.


First off, let's assume that whatever religious practice it is that you ascribe to, is true. My question is, why? Why would a god want for you to practice those things? Why would a god want you to worship him, or pray to him, or love him, or even care about him? I mean sure, those things feel nice to us, but why would a god care? Like with Muslims, why would god care if you prayed several times a day while facing Mecca? What does it matter? And with Christians, why would a god care to get you to eat the flesh and blood of his only begotten son? And Jews, why would he care how you prepare your food? What is it about these things that make them noteworthy to an all powerful being? What is the point of going to church, or temple, or mosque? Just to worship a being who would be as affected by this worship, as we would by the worship of the billions of microscopic organisms on the planet. What is the point in your religious practices?

Well, this turned into a bit more of a rant then I expected, but I am really confused by this premis.

Why do you think religious practices are because people think God wants or requires them? I'm not Catholic, but I've been to a Catholic mass or two. It's rich with ritual and symbolism and really quite lovely. It's clear to me that, at least originally, they are simply reminders of the Divine everywhere in our lives, sort of like a fish might need reminding of the water in which it swims.

Excuse me, I don't think it, I know it. Unless I'm misinterpreting the part where Jesus says that his followers shall eat of his flesh and drink of his blood. Or the part of the Quran that says that Muslims must pray facing Mecca every day. Or the part of the Old Testament that requires food to be kosher. These aren't just traditions picked up along the way because they are neat. They are recorded in the holy books as the will of god.
"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.
muzebreak
Posts: 2,781
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3/15/2013 12:44:16 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/15/2013 12:38:28 PM, logicrules wrote:
At 3/15/2013 11:34:54 AM, muzebreak wrote:
At 3/15/2013 11:19:37 AM, logicrules wrote:
At 3/15/2013 11:10:39 AM, muzebreak wrote:
At 3/15/2013 10:55:18 AM, logicrules wrote:
At 3/15/2013 10:50:08 AM, muzebreak wrote:
At 3/15/2013 10:29:00 AM, logicrules wrote:
At 3/15/2013 5:30:35 AM, muzebreak wrote:
I was out hanging laundry on the line, when this thought came to me. And as I had a supply of theists on hand, I felt I should direct this question at them.


First off, let's assume that whatever religious practice it is that you ascribe to, is true. My question is, why? Why would a god want for you to practice those things? Why would a god want you to worship him, or pray to him, or love him, or even care about him? I mean sure, those things feel nice to us, but why would a god care? Like with Muslims, why would god care if you prayed several times a day while facing Mecca? What does it matter? And with Christians, why would a god care to get you to eat the flesh and blood of his only begotten son? And Jews, why would he care how you prepare your food? What is it about these things that make them noteworthy to an all powerful being? What is the point of going to church, or temple, or mosque? Just to worship a being who would be as affected by this worship, as we would by the worship of the billions of microscopic organisms on the planet. What is the point in your religious practices?

Well, this turned into a bit more of a rant then I expected, but I am really confused by this premis.

Since my ascribed religious practice does not hold to your delineation of those things you would question it is difficult to answer. Why would a mother want respect from her children? Why would a child want love from their mother?

False analogy, god is not human and therefore cannot be considered to have the same mindset as a human.

You self identify as catholic on this website, either you are not catholic, or you have just admitted to lacking belief in transsubstation and its importance to the catholic dogma. In doing so, you have defied the doctrine of the Eucharist, and become an apostate to Catholicism and Christianity.

Transubstantiation is Doctrine, (not dogma)

Oh, yeah, you really go me there. It's a shame that doctrine isn't just a synonym for dogma. Oh wait, that's exactly what it is.


applied to Real Presence, (Dogma). I was not making an analogy I was merely asking a question.

Yeah, just like you weren't inferring before, you were just reading into my words to see things that weren't written there.

I accept as a reasonable theology the accidence of Aristotle as applied by Aquinas.

The relevance of this being.......

Do you often make stuff up?


Yes, in fact. I am a compulsive liar in the real world. One of the reasons I use the Internet is that it allows me to break free from this.

I notice how you did not counter the claims that you disbelieve of the doctrine of the Eucharist and transsubstation.

Where shall I begin? The RCC has long taught, even in Ireland, that Dogma is never changing ad Doctrine is open for discussion.

Isn't it interesting that I have never willingly been a part of the RCC? It is quite clear to anyone who has conversed with me on this site, that I am anti-religion. So please, do tell, what is it that would make you think I would abide the Catholics distinction between dogma and doctrine, when I am not catholic? Why did you think I would choose a religious source rather then a dictionary?

One need look no farther than the magesterium and its consideration of Transignification as a possible alternate to Transubstantiation to know the difference.

Yes, because I follow the magesteriums twitter page. How could I have missed that tweet.

Even the most simple of the catholic educated by Jesuits knows that Aquinas is but a re-wording of Aristotle adopted in the Reformation as a theology of the RCC.

Well, good thing I'm no catholic. So I guess this doesn't apply to me.

As to your admissions I recommend to you the Principle of non contradiction.

And what admissions would those be?


I have found that those with little education think they know alot while those with much know they know very little. We shall wait with the patience of Job for your speedy return to Holy Mother Church.

And I've found that those with much education are generally very arrogant. Especially for people who got conned into, as will hunting put it, paying a hundred and fifty grand for an education they could have got for a dollar fifty in late fees at the library. So why don't you just go suck an egg mister high and mighty.

Again...you missed the consideration of transignifcation because it pre-dates twitter. Your use of terms indicates a distinctly non, perhaps even anti, catholic position. As to you findings....not unusual in the adolescent male to yearn for the wisdom of his elders manifesting this desire by and through anger. Perhaps a good book by Dulles world help, or maybe even a course in Christology? I doubt you are at fault, but your understandings are NOT catholic by a long way.

As an aside...Is english your second language?

Fvck this shlt, you must be a troll. Either that or your so stuck up your own arse that you would rather insult someone then have reasonable discourse.
"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.