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Dogknox
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3/25/2013 1:58:56 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Moses had to eat the manna for forty years.. If he did not eat he would have died in 40 days, never mind 40 years!
The manna Moses ate was true food.. it was not symbolic food!

John 6
32 Jesus said to them, "Very truly I tell you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread from heaven, but it is my Father who gives you the true bread from heaven.
33 For the bread of God is the bread that comes down from heaven and gives life to the world."


The body of Jesus also eats to live.
Jesus feeds his body true food from heaven.. Food from the "Tree of Life"!

Ephesians 5
29 After all, no one ever hated their own body, but they feed and care for their body, just as Christ does the church" 30 for we are members of his body.

Jesus the second Adam has ACCESS to the "Tree"!
philochristos
Posts: 2,614
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3/25/2013 2:10:59 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/25/2013 1:58:56 PM, Dogknox wrote:
Moses had to eat the manna for forty years.. If he did not eat he would have died in 40 days, never mind 40 years!
The manna Moses ate was true food.. it was not symbolic food!

John 6
32 Jesus said to them, "Very truly I tell you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread from heaven, but it is my Father who gives you the true bread from heaven.
33 For the bread of God is the bread that comes down from heaven and gives life to the world."


The body of Jesus also eats to live.
Jesus feeds his body true food from heaven.. Food from the "Tree of Life"!

Ephesians 5
29 After all, no one ever hated their own body, but they feed and care for their body, just as Christ does the church" 30 for we are members of his body.

Jesus the second Adam has ACCESS to the "Tree"!

If we are members of Jesus' body, and if we must eat Jesus' body to have eternal life, does that mean we have to eat each other (or ourselves) to have eternal life?
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
johnlubba
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3/25/2013 2:15:20 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/25/2013 1:58:56 PM, Dogknox wrote:
Moses had to eat the manna for forty years.. If he did not eat he would have died in 40 days, never mind 40 years!
The manna Moses ate was true food.. it was not symbolic food!

John 6
32 Jesus said to them, "Very truly I tell you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread from heaven, but it is my Father who gives you the true bread from heaven.
33 For the bread of God is the bread that comes down from heaven and gives life to the world."


The body of Jesus also eats to live.
Jesus feeds his body true food from heaven.. Food from the "Tree of Life"!

Ephesians 5
29 After all, no one ever hated their own body, but they feed and care for their body, just as Christ does the church" 30 for we are members of his body.

Jesus the second Adam has ACCESS to the "Tree"!

Man can not live on bread alone, what this means is that material food is not enough to survive on, man must also have some spiritual soul food if he is to live.
philochristos
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3/25/2013 2:19:25 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/25/2013 2:15:20 PM, johnlubba wrote:
At 3/25/2013 1:58:56 PM, Dogknox wrote:
Moses had to eat the manna for forty years.. If he did not eat he would have died in 40 days, never mind 40 years!
The manna Moses ate was true food.. it was not symbolic food!

John 6
32 Jesus said to them, "Very truly I tell you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread from heaven, but it is my Father who gives you the true bread from heaven.
33 For the bread of God is the bread that comes down from heaven and gives life to the world."


The body of Jesus also eats to live.
Jesus feeds his body true food from heaven.. Food from the "Tree of Life"!

Ephesians 5
29 After all, no one ever hated their own body, but they feed and care for their body, just as Christ does the church" 30 for we are members of his body.

Jesus the second Adam has ACCESS to the "Tree"!


Man can not live on bread alone, what this means is that material food is not enough to survive on, man must also have some spiritual soul food if he is to live.

That's why my grandmother raised us on peas and cornbread.
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
Dogknox
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3/25/2013 7:39:07 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
philochristosy You asked..
If we are members of Jesus' body, and if we must eat Jesus' body to have eternal life, does that mean we have to eat each other (or ourselves) to have eternal life?

I reply; Good question... The answer is no!
What you must do is; "Have FAITH in Jesus"!
To have faith in Jesus means you believe the words of Jesus!
Rejecting "The bread as just symbolic" means you think Jesus tells lies, you don't believe he is God!
IF..
philochristosy if you believed Jesus was God then you would believe Jesus takes the form of bread, because you would believe; Jesus is almighty and his words do not return until they effect what he said!

Isaiah 55:11
so is my word that goes out from my mouth: It will not return to me empty, but will accomplish what I desire and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.

Jesus can speak and creation jumps into place.. The Words of Jesus are ALL POWERFUL!
Jesus' words... "This IS my body"!
philochristosy when Jesus said this he was holding bread! THUS the bread is his body! It is just this simple!

Augustine is CHRISTIAN... He is called CHRISTIAN because he believes the words of Jesus!
Augustine said..
"Christ was carried in his own hands when, referring to his own body, he said, "This is my body" [Matt. 26:26]. For he carried that body in his hands" (Explanations of the Psalms 33:1:10 [A.D. 405]).

Dogknox
philochristos
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3/25/2013 8:20:22 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Dognoxious you said...
Rejecting "The bread as just symbolic" means you think Jesus tells lies, you don't believe he is God!

I reply; But don't you reject the claim that "The bread is just symbolic"?
I'm guessing you mean to say accepting the claim that "The bread is just symbolic" means that you think Jesus tells lies, and you don't believe he is God.
BUT...
Am I to think that Jesus could not speak symbolically without lying and ceasing to be God?
Is anybody who speaks symbolically lying?
Was Paul lying when he said in Ephesians...
Ephesians 5
29 After all, no one ever hated their own body, but they feed and care for their body, just as Christ does the church" 30 for we are members of his body.
???

Dognoxious said;
if you believed Jesus was God then you would believe Jesus takes the form of bread, because you would believe; Jesus is almighty and his words do not return until they effect what he said!

I reply; Doesn't that imply a sort of double incarnation.
I mean Jesus was God to begin with.
BUT THEN...
He took on a human nature in addition to his divine nature.
SO NOW...
He's both God and man.
BUT IF...
He also takes on a bread nature, then wouldn't that mean;
Jesus has a divine nature, a human nature, and a bread nature?

Dognoxious cited:
Isaiah 55:11

so is my word that goes out from my mouth: It will not return to me empty, but will accomplish what I desire and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.

I reply; But why do you assume Jesus' purpose in saying, "I am the bread of life," or "This is my body" was to transform himself into bread, or to transform bread into flesh?
MOREOVER...
Which is it?
Does Jesus turn into bread, or does bread turn into Jesus?
You said...
Jesus takes the form of bread
BUT...
Isn't it the position of your church that the Eucharist ceases to be bread when it is transformed into Jesus' flesh?
How is it, then, that Jesus takes the form of bread?
Wouldn't it be more accurate to say
THAT...
bread takes the form of Jesus?
AFTER ALL...
When Jesus took the form of man, he didn't just appear to be man, he actually was man.

Philippians 2:5-8
Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in (J)Christ Jesus, 6 who, although He (K)existed in the (L)form of God, (M)did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but (N)emptied Himself, taking the form of a (O)bond-servant, and (P)being made in the likeness of men. 8 Being found in appearance as a man, (Q)He humbled Himself by becoming (R)obedient to the point of death, even (S)death on a cross.

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

Dognoxious, you said.
The Words of Jesus are ALL POWERFUL!
Jesus' words... "This IS my body"!
philochristosy when Jesus said this he was holding bread! THUS the bread is his body! It is just this simple!

I reply; Fascinating!
So, when Jesus said, "I am the bread of life!" did the man, Jesus Christ, actually cease to be man and turn into a loaf of bread, the same way the loaf of bread at the last supper ceased to be bread and became human flesh?
Did Jesus only have the accidental properties of humanity while he gave the bread of life discourse, and was his substance literally bread?
AFTER ALL...
That's what he said. "I am the bread of life."
Was he lying?

You still haven't answered my question.
If...
we are members of Jesus' body,
and if...
we must eat Jesus' body to have eternal life,
does that mean...
we have to eat each other (or ourselves) to have eternal life?

Philochristos
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
Dogknox
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3/25/2013 8:32:16 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
johnlubba you said..
Man can not live on bread alone, what this means is that material food is not enough to survive on, man must also have some spiritual soul food if he is to live.

Right you are.... When Satan tempted Jesus he said.. "Turn the stone into bread".. he knew Jesus was Hungry.. hungry for food, for his stomach!
Jesus' reply was... "Man does NOT live on bread alone but on every word from the mouth of God"!
Thus your words are so true.. material food is not enough to survive on, man must also have some spiritual soul food if he is to live.

God' words...Spiritual food.. "This IS my body" as he held bread!
God' words... "My flesh is real food, my blood is real drink"!

God' words.. "Unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood you have no life in you"!

johnlubba Believing the words of God gives man life! "Man does NOT live on bread alone but on every word from the mouth of God"!

The mouth of God.. "I am with you ALWAYS even to the very end of the world"!
Thus Jesus did not leave the ONLY Church he formed!
Satan did not overpower Jesus', Satan did not TAKE Jesus' bride from Jesus!
Satan did not overpower Jesus', Satan did not TAKE Jesus' body from Jesus!

Jesus is still with the ONLY CHURCH he formed, His holy BLAMELESS Catholic Church!
The man in protest MUST believe; "Jesus left his Holy Catholic Church".. the very church Jesus said.. he is ALWAYS WITH!

"Man does NOT live on bread alone but on every word from the mouth of God"!
Ephesians 5
27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless.

johnlubba To not be Catholic is to think Jesus lied, Jesus left his bride, Satan overpowered God.. OR...

johnlubba or there would not be men in protest, if they believed every word coming from the mouth of God! Truth is these protestants REJECT the words of Jesus, they believe Jesus did not remain with his bride!
They reject.. "My flesh is real food!"
These men do likewise..52 Then the Jews began to argue sharply among themselves, "How can this man give us his flesh to eat?"
These men (above) are NOT Christians, they reject the words from the mouth of God!

Dogknox
Dogknox
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3/25/2013 9:13:51 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
philochristos you said..
BUT...
Am I to think that Jesus could not speak symbolically without lying and ceasing to be God?
Is anybody who speaks symbolically lying?
Was Paul lying when he said in Ephesians...
Ephesians 5
29 After all, no one ever hated their own body, but they feed and care for their body, just as Christ does the church" 30 for we are members of his body.
???


First Thank you for your questions...
I reply.. For you to say Jesus was speaking symbolically you must reject John 6!

Think it out... All of John 6 is about eating Jesus' flesh.
Why would he go to the great length of repeating his words and declaring his words are truth then in the end say.. "Forgetaboutit all I just said means nothing!" he would not and he did not... He makes it even more clear at the end of the Chapter.

Look at this..John 6:52 Then the Jews began to argue sharply among themselves, "How can this man give us his flesh to eat?"

These people (above) are NOT Christians, they reject the TEACHING!

and these people also..
John 6:60 On hearing it, many of his disciples said, "This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?"

These people (above) say as you.. "Hard teaching"!

philochristos the people who say "heard teaching (60 above) leave Jesus in their unbelief! Jesus lets them go!! Jesus does not try to clarify his teaching, he does not call them back, he does NOT try to soften his words.. NO..
philochristos no Jesus lets them go in their unbelief!

LOOK.. to make it even more clear, Jesus turns to his Apostles and puts it squarely on them saying.. 67 "You do not want to leave too, do you?" Jesus asked the Twelve.

Jesus meant every single word.. "His flesh is real food!"

The Apostles believe Jesus' words, they are CHRISTIANS!
They are the first Catholic's!
Peter says..
68 Simon Peter answered him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69 We have come to believe and to know that you are the Holy One of God."

You asked another good question.. SO NOW...
He's both God and man.
BUT IF...
He also takes on a bread nature, then wouldn't that mean;
Jesus has a divine nature, a human nature, and a bread nature?


The answer can only be.. God took the FORM of bread! Just as God took other forms..
The form of fire, smoke, silence, dove and man!
Jesus was 100% GOD and 100% MAN!

Because Jesus is God almighty he can take any form he wants to take!
philochristos Thinking he can't take the form of bread when he said he does, means you MUST reject the words of Jesus as LIE or as the Jews.. Jesus is NOT GOD!

Then the Jews began to argue sharply among themselves, "How can this man give us his flesh to eat?"

philochristos so what is it? Is Jesus God? Is God all powerful >> ALMIGHTY!? Raise the dead, walk on water, take the form of a dove, but not of bread???!

You asked.. Jesus has a divine nature, a human nature, and a bread nature?
No not the NATURE of bread but the form of bread!
God as the form of Bread!

Good questions.. Does Jesus turn into bread, or does bread turn into Jesus?
You said...
Jesus takes the form of bread
BUT...
Isn't it the position of your church that the Eucharist ceases to be bread when it is transformed into Jesus' flesh?
How is it, then, that Jesus takes the form of bread?
Wouldn't it be more accurate to say
THAT...
bread takes the form of Jesus?


ANSWER IS.. Looks as bread, feels as bread, tastes as bread, smells as bread but is GOD! Right down to the molecular level as bread but is GOD, to all senses it is 100% bread!!

philochristos FAITH is what is required, if it was as the form of meat, faith would not be needed!
TRULY trusting in Jesus is trusting Jesus' words!
To have eternal life you must believe in Jesus! This means Believing the words of; "The WORD!"

You ask good questions and I don't blame you for your confusion it comes right down to faith..
I let Augustine answer you..(below)

Your words.. I reply; Fascinating!
So, when Jesus said, "I am the bread of life!" did the man, Jesus Christ, actually cease to be man and turn into a loaf of bread, the same way the loaf of bread at the last supper ceased to be bread and became human flesh?
Did Jesus only have the accidental properties of humanity while he gave the bread of life discourse, and was his substance literally bread?
AFTER ALL...
That's what he said. "I am the bread of life."
Was he lying?


No Jesus was NOT lying, he cannot LIE! If God was to lie he would not be perfect he would not be God!

Augustine the believer said..

"Christ was carried in his own hands when, referring to his own body, he said, "This is my body" [Matt. 26:26]. For he carried that body in his hands" (Explanations of the Psalms 33:1:10 [A.D. 405]).

philochristos At the Last Supper.. Jesus carried his own body in his hands! Jesus was NOT lying!

THINK it out...
Adam lost access to the "Tree Of Life" so Adam died!
Jesus is the second Adam..
philochristos Jesus has Access to the LIFE!
Jesus is; "The LIFE come down from heaven!"
Adam could not eat of life so he died, Jesus feeds his BODY living food! The Holy Catholic Body of Jesus lives forever!

Genesis 3:22 And the Lord God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."

Dogknox
Composer
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3/26/2013 8:01:16 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/25/2013 9:13:51 PM, Dogknox wrote:
Jesus was 100% GOD and 100% MAN!

You continue to lie & try to deceive us Dogknox!

IF Story book jebus = 100% a man, then there is NO room for a god!

100% human means EXACTLY that.

Fully, totally completely 100% human, means just that.

Nothing more, and nothing less!

100% Pure Orange juice is nothing but pure Orange juice.

The very definition of 100% fully human, excludes a god!

If there were something, anything about this Story book jebus that was non-human, it would immediately disqualify it as being 100% human!

trinity remains in tatters!

You are truly an agent of Satan (Mark 8:33) & a wanna-be the agent of a Mother Fukkr (Luke 1:35) RSV catholic Cult Story book 1966 edition

Your vindicated mentor, 50 year successful Cult busting personal successful literal Saviour, moi!
Dogknox
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3/26/2013 1:22:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
philochristosy I further add .... The early Church ate the flesh of Jesus.. They ate and Drank the cup!

1 Corinthians 11:27
So then, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord.
28 Everyone ought to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup.
29 For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves.


Verse #27 (above) you can't sin against a SYMBOL!
philochristosy You CAN'T be in "Communion" with symbols! Verse #27 is clear.. Christians of the early Church tell you it is a SIN to reject the flesh of Jesus!
.................................
DICTIONARY DOT COM
Discerning...
1. to perceive by the sight or some other sense or by the intellect; see, recognize, or apprehend: They discerned a sail on the horizon.
2. to distinguish mentally; recognize as distinct or different; discriminate: He is incapable of discerning right from wrong.
verb (used without object)
3. to distinguish or discriminate.
..............................

philochristosy Verse #29 (above) You CONDEMN yourself, if you do not recognize Jesus in the Bread & Wine. They tell you "You condemn yourself"!!

Romans 14:23
But whoever has doubts is condemned if they eat, because their eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin.
annanicole
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3/27/2013 1:16:07 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Dogknox, you never did get around to telling exactly what was in the cup at the moment Jesus Christ said, "This is my body", did you? I don't recall your answer - and methinks I know why I don't recall it.

Jesus Christ, before His death on the cross, held up a cup of wine and said, "This is my blood ..." Do you think, honestly, that when He uttered those words, the contents in the cup transubstantiated - changed - into the same literal blood that was also coursing through His arteries and veins? Do you? And if so, do you think that the apostles then drank the literal blood of Jesus Christ before He even shed it on the cross? I'd like to know if you are teaching people that the apostles ate the literal body of Christ WHILE HE WAS STILL LIVING and drank His literal blood BEFORE HE EVEN SHED IT?

Come on out good and strong on that point. Was not Christ instituting a memorial when He said, "This do in REMEMBRANCE of me?"
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Composer
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3/27/2013 6:36:46 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/27/2013 1:16:07 AM, annanicole wrote:
Dogknox, you never did get around to telling exactly what was in the cup at the moment Jesus Christ said, "This is my body", did you? I don't recall your answer - and methinks I know why I don't recall it.

Jesus Christ, before His death on the cross, held up a cup of wine and said, "This is my blood ..." Do you think, honestly, that when He uttered those words, the contents in the cup transubstantiated - changed - into the same literal blood that was also coursing through His arteries and veins? Do you? And if so, do you think that the apostles then drank the literal blood of Jesus Christ before He even shed it on the cross? I'd like to know if you are teaching people that the apostles ate the literal body of Christ WHILE HE WAS STILL LIVING and drank His literal blood BEFORE HE EVEN SHED IT?

Come on out good and strong on that point. Was not Christ instituting a memorial when He said, "This do in REMEMBRANCE of me?"

Obviously the catholic jebus slashed its wrists and poured out some of its literal blood in to the goblet, then chopped a bit of its leg off or perhaps an ear and popped it/them into the bread-basket ready for the ceremony!

Remembering also that this literal flesh must have been brown-blackish in colour, so why then do catholics use white-bread/wafers during their Pagan rituals?
annanicole
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3/27/2013 8:20:58 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/27/2013 6:36:46 AM, Composer wrote:
At 3/27/2013 1:16:07 AM, annanicole wrote:
Dogknox, you never did get around to telling exactly what was in the cup at the moment Jesus Christ said, "This is my body", did you? I don't recall your answer - and methinks I know why I don't recall it.

Jesus Christ, before His death on the cross, held up a cup of wine and said, "This is my blood ..." Do you think, honestly, that when He uttered those words, the contents in the cup transubstantiated - changed - into the same literal blood that was also coursing through His arteries and veins? Do you? And if so, do you think that the apostles then drank the literal blood of Jesus Christ before He even shed it on the cross? I'd like to know if you are teaching people that the apostles ate the literal body of Christ WHILE HE WAS STILL LIVING and drank His literal blood BEFORE HE EVEN SHED IT?

Come on out good and strong on that point. Was not Christ instituting a memorial when He said, "This do in REMEMBRANCE of me?"

Obviously the catholic jebus slashed its wrists and poured out some of its literal blood in to the goblet, then chopped a bit of its leg off or perhaps an ear and popped it/them into the bread-basket ready for the ceremony!

Remembering also that this literal flesh must have been brown-blackish in colour, so why then do catholics use white-bread/wafers during their Pagan rituals?

It seems to me that the whole affair was dreamt up by an increasing-powerful, money-grubbing clergy:

(1) One must eat the literal flesh and body of Jesus Christ in order to be saved.
(2) The unleavened bread and fruit of the vine do not become the literal body and blood of Christ until the Catholic priest blesses it.
(3) Thus a Catholic priest is necessary in order to get to heaven.
(4) Thus a Catholic priest = pretty important fellow
(5) Pretty important fellow = $$$
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
AlwaysMoreThanYou
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3/27/2013 8:22:25 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/27/2013 8:20:58 AM, annanicole wrote:
It seems to me that the whole affair was dreamt up by an increasing-powerful, money-grubbing clergy:

(1) One must eat the literal flesh and body of Jesus Christ in order to be saved.
(2) The unleavened bread and fruit of the vine do not become the literal body and blood of Christ until the Catholic priest blesses it.
(3) Thus a Catholic priest is necessary in order to get to heaven.
(4) Thus a Catholic priest = pretty important fellow
(5) Pretty important fellow = $$$

2 is false.
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
annanicole
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3/27/2013 8:43:01 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/27/2013 8:22:25 AM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 3/27/2013 8:20:58 AM, annanicole wrote:
It seems to me that the whole affair was dreamt up by an increasing-powerful, money-grubbing clergy:

(1) One must eat the literal flesh and body of Jesus Christ in order to be saved.
(2) The unleavened bread and fruit of the vine do not become the literal body and blood of Christ until the Catholic priest blesses it.
(3) Thus a Catholic priest is necessary in order to get to heaven.
(4) Thus a Catholic priest = pretty important fellow
(5) Pretty important fellow = $$$

2 is false.

Do they become the literal body and blood of Christ at some point before the priest blesses it?
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
AlwaysMoreThanYou
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3/27/2013 8:44:48 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/27/2013 8:43:01 AM, annanicole wrote:
Do they become the literal body and blood of Christ at some point before the priest blesses it?

Technically, 2 is true, but someone who's left the physical prieshood or whatever is still a Catholic priest, and can still transubstantiate it.

Like SSPX priests, or Orthodox priests.
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
Dogknox
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3/27/2013 10:45:11 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/27/2013 1:16:07 AM, annanicole wrote:
Dogknox, you never did get around to telling exactly what was in the cup at the moment Jesus Christ said, "This is my body", did you? I don't recall your answer - and methinks I know why I don't recall it.

Jesus Christ, before His death on the cross, held up a cup of wine and said, "This is my blood ..." Do you think, honestly, that when He uttered those words, the contents in the cup transubstantiated - changed - into the same literal blood that was also coursing through His arteries and veins? Do you? And if so, do you think that the apostles then drank the literal blood of Jesus Christ before He even shed it on the cross? I'd like to know if you are teaching people that the apostles ate the literal body of Christ WHILE HE WAS STILL LIVING and drank His literal blood BEFORE HE EVEN SHED IT?

Come on out good and strong on that point. Was not Christ instituting a memorial when He said, "This do in REMEMBRANCE of me?"
annanicole Christians have always taken the words of God as "Literal"!

You asked.. do you think that the apostles then drank the literal blood of Jesus Christ before He even shed it on the cross?

annanicole I will let the Early Church fathers answer your question..
Augustine is a CHRISTIAN!!
Christians believe the words of Jesus!
Augustine said...
"Christ was carried in his own hands when, referring to his own body, he said, "This is my body" [Matt. 26:26]. For he carried that body in his hands" (Explanations of the Psalms 33:1:10 [A.D. 405]).
&
"I promised you [new Christians], who have now been baptized, a sermon in which I would explain the sacrament of the Lord"s Table. . . . That bread which you see on the altar, having been sanctified by the word of God, is the body of Christ. That chalice, or rather, what is in that chalice, having been sanctified by the word of God, is the blood of Christ" (Sermons 227 [A.D. 411]).

annanicole you are forced to reject the scriptures..>>> "This IS my body"!

You are forced to reject the Early CHRISTIANS.. (above)

You are forced to reject LOGIC.... Clearly; Your god is NOT all powerful! Your god CAN'T do what he says he can do!

You are forced to reject HISTORY.... The Only Church Jesus formed, The Holy, Blameless Catholic Church, with historical linage back to Peter has ALWAYS; "Eaten the flesh of Jesus and drank his blood"!
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,255
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3/27/2013 10:48:13 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/27/2013 10:45:11 AM, Dogknox wrote:
At 3/27/2013 1:16:07 AM, annanicole wrote:
Dogknox, you never did get around to telling exactly what was in the cup at the moment Jesus Christ said, "This is my body", did you? I don't recall your answer - and methinks I know why I don't recall it.

Jesus Christ, before His death on the cross, held up a cup of wine and said, "This is my blood ..." Do you think, honestly, that when He uttered those words, the contents in the cup transubstantiated - changed - into the same literal blood that was also coursing through His arteries and veins? Do you? And if so, do you think that the apostles then drank the literal blood of Jesus Christ before He even shed it on the cross? I'd like to know if you are teaching people that the apostles ate the literal body of Christ WHILE HE WAS STILL LIVING and drank His literal blood BEFORE HE EVEN SHED IT?

Come on out good and strong on that point. Was not Christ instituting a memorial when He said, "This do in REMEMBRANCE of me?"
annanicole Christians have always taken the words of God as "Literal"!

You asked.. do you think that the apostles then drank the literal blood of Jesus Christ before He even shed it on the cross?

annanicole I will let the Early Church fathers answer your question..
Augustine is a CHRISTIAN!!
Christians believe the words of Jesus!
Augustine said...
"Christ was carried in his own hands when, referring to his own body, he said, "This is my body" [Matt. 26:26]. For he carried that body in his hands" (Explanations of the Psalms 33:1:10 [A.D. 405]).
&
"I promised you [new Christians], who have now been baptized, a sermon in which I would explain the sacrament of the Lord"s Table. . . . That bread which you see on the altar, having been sanctified by the word of God, is the body of Christ. That chalice, or rather, what is in that chalice, having been sanctified by the word of God, is the blood of Christ" (Sermons 227 [A.D. 411]).

annanicole you are forced to reject the scriptures..>>> "This IS my body"!

You are forced to reject the Early CHRISTIANS.. (above)

You are forced to reject LOGIC.... Clearly; Your god is NOT all powerful! Your god CAN'T do what he says he can do!

You are forced to reject HISTORY.... The Only Church Jesus formed, The Holy, Blameless Catholic Church, with historical linage back to Peter has ALWAYS; "Eaten the flesh of Jesus and drank his blood"!

Why do you keep quoting the Bible?
Dogknox
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3/27/2013 11:06:54 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
dylancatlow
You asked.. Why do you keep quoting the Bible?
Simple answer is "I am CHRISTIAN"! Christians believe the scriptures.

Dogknox
dylancatlow
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3/27/2013 11:08:37 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/27/2013 11:06:54 AM, Dogknox wrote:
dylancatlow
You asked.. Why do you keep quoting the Bible?
Simple answer is "I am CHRISTIAN"! Christians believe the scriptures.

Dogknox

Okay, so your method is only going to work on people that already agree with you i.e. those that belief the Bible is valid.
annanicole
Posts: 19,791
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3/27/2013 11:15:07 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Dogknox: "Christians have always taken the words of God as "Literal"!"

Anna: No, they haven't - and I won't bother to go into examples, but shall only say that your statement above is a smattering assertion.

*****

Dogknox: "You are forced to reject the Early CHRISTIANS.. (above)"

Anna: No, I'm not. Not at all. The early Christians had conflicting and contradictory views of the Lord's Supper just as they did on practically everything else. Some thought the Supper was spiritual or figurative. Some thought it to be literal. Some thought it to be both. Thus, it is futile to cite them in most instances.

*****

Dogknox: "Clearly; Your god is NOT all powerful! Your god CAN'T do what he says he can do!"

Anna: Oh, He CAN ... they question is: 'Does He choose to?' Remember when I lined up all those metaphors for you - and you refused once again to answer? I do. "I am the door." Was Christ a literal door swinging on hinges?

*****

Dogknox: "The Only Church Jesus formed, The Holy, Blameless Catholic Church, with historical linage back to Peter has ALWAYS; "Eaten the flesh of Jesus and drank his blood"!"

Anna: Why didn't Jesus or any apostles ever call the church "The Holy Blameless Catholic Church"? Why is that, Dogknox? Why are you continually forced to just make things up?

Tis a favorite hobby of the Catholic Church to just make up a new belief or doctrine, then exclaim "we've always believed that." They pulled that stunt on papal infallibility - and over the years cited numerous documents to prove it. Then later they admitted that many of the documents were forgeries. Not very honest, eh? In 1837, in debate, Bishop (later Archbishop) Purcell of Cincinnati stated in 1837 that "appeals were lodged before the bishop of Rome, though he was not believed to be infallible. Neither is he now. No enlightened Catholic holds the pope's infallibility to be an article of faith. I do not; and none of my brethren, that I know of, do." Why Archbishop Purcell didn't even KNOW any Catholics who thought the pope was infallible. What happened 33 years later? Why, they got together, voted infallibilty upon a fallible man, and exclaimed, "We've always believed that."

I have a question, Dogknox: Why did the Archbishop of Cincinnati, John Purcell, not even KNOW any Catholics who believed the pope to be infallible? Did he not get around enough? Why was an archbishop of the Catholic Church so ignorant of the doctrine?

Another question: Why did the Roman Catholic church feel the need to endlessly quote certain documents in support of its position (of course, they couldn't find it in the Bible) - then state later that the documents were fabrications and forgeries? Why did they cite admittedly forged documents?

Now, you won't answer those. You're a Catholic. You can't. But, even more telling, you won't deny any of it.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
philochristos
Posts: 2,614
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3/27/2013 11:44:04 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/25/2013 8:20:22 PM, philochristos wrote:
Dognoxious you said...
Rejecting "The bread as just symbolic" means you think Jesus tells lies, you don't believe he is God!

I reply; But don't you reject the claim that "The bread is just symbolic"?
I'm guessing you mean to say accepting the claim that "The bread is just symbolic" means that you think Jesus tells lies, and you don't believe he is God.
BUT...
Am I to think that Jesus could not speak symbolically without lying and ceasing to be God?
Is anybody who speaks symbolically lying?
Was Paul lying when he said in Ephesians...
Ephesians 5
29 After all, no one ever hated their own body, but they feed and care for their body, just as Christ does the church" 30 for we are members of his body.
???

Dognoxious said;
if you believed Jesus was God then you would believe Jesus takes the form of bread, because you would believe; Jesus is almighty and his words do not return until they effect what he said!

I reply; Doesn't that imply a sort of double incarnation.
I mean Jesus was God to begin with.
BUT THEN...
He took on a human nature in addition to his divine nature.
SO NOW...
He's both God and man.
BUT IF...
He also takes on a bread nature, then wouldn't that mean;
Jesus has a divine nature, a human nature, and a bread nature?

Dognoxious cited:
Isaiah 55:11

so is my word that goes out from my mouth: It will not return to me empty, but will accomplish what I desire and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.

I reply; But why do you assume Jesus' purpose in saying, "I am the bread of life," or "This is my body" was to transform himself into bread, or to transform bread into flesh?
MOREOVER...
Which is it?
Does Jesus turn into bread, or does bread turn into Jesus?
You said...
Jesus takes the form of bread
BUT...
Isn't it the position of your church that the Eucharist ceases to be bread when it is transformed into Jesus' flesh?
How is it, then, that Jesus takes the form of bread?
Wouldn't it be more accurate to say
THAT...
bread takes the form of Jesus?
AFTER ALL...
When Jesus took the form of man, he didn't just appear to be man, he actually was man.

Philippians 2:5-8
Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in (J)Christ Jesus, 6 who, although He (K)existed in the (L)form of God, (M)did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but (N)emptied Himself, taking the form of a (O)bond-servant, and (P)being made in the likeness of men. 8 Being found in appearance as a man, (Q)He humbled Himself by becoming (R)obedient to the point of death, even (S)death on a cross.

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

Dognoxious, you said.
The Words of Jesus are ALL POWERFUL!
Jesus' words... "This IS my body"!
philochristosy when Jesus said this he was holding bread! THUS the bread is his body! It is just this simple!

I reply; Fascinating!
So, when Jesus said, "I am the bread of life!" did the man, Jesus Christ, actually cease to be man and turn into a loaf of bread, the same way the loaf of bread at the last supper ceased to be bread and became human flesh?
Did Jesus only have the accidental properties of humanity while he gave the bread of life discourse, and was his substance literally bread?
AFTER ALL...
That's what he said. "I am the bread of life."
Was he lying?

You still haven't answered my question.
If...
we are members of Jesus' body,
and if...
we must eat Jesus' body to have eternal life,
does that mean...
we have to eat each other (or ourselves) to have eternal life?

Philochristos

I can't believe I'm not getting any credit for my parody. Tough crowd.
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
AlwaysMoreThanYou
Posts: 2,900
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3/27/2013 1:33:53 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/27/2013 11:44:04 AM, philochristos wrote:
I can't believe I'm not getting any credit for my parody. Tough crowd.

ha
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
philochristos
Posts: 2,614
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3/27/2013 2:10:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/27/2013 1:33:53 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 3/27/2013 11:44:04 AM, philochristos wrote:
I can't believe I'm not getting any credit for my parody. Tough crowd.

ha

Thank you.
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
Nur-Ab-Sal
Posts: 1,637
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3/27/2013 2:15:44 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/27/2013 2:10:10 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 3/27/2013 1:33:53 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 3/27/2013 11:44:04 AM, philochristos wrote:
I can't believe I'm not getting any credit for my parody. Tough crowd.

ha

Thank you.

No problem.
Genesis I. And God created man to his own image: to the image of God he created him: male and female he created them.
Nur-Ab-Sal
Posts: 1,637
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3/27/2013 2:15:57 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/27/2013 2:15:44 PM, Nur-Ab-Sal wrote:
At 3/27/2013 2:10:10 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 3/27/2013 1:33:53 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 3/27/2013 11:44:04 AM, philochristos wrote:
I can't believe I'm not getting any credit for my parody. Tough crowd.

ha

Thank you.

No problem.

Oops, wrong account.
Genesis I. And God created man to his own image: to the image of God he created him: male and female he created them.
annanicole
Posts: 19,791
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3/27/2013 2:31:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/27/2013 2:21:12 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
DOGKNOX ALMOST HAS 2k POSTS?!?!

WHYYYYYY?

Cuz he hasn't eradicated a single heretic from up in here ... yet.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Dogknox
Posts: 5,089
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3/27/2013 2:32:03 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/27/2013 11:08:37 AM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 3/27/2013 11:06:54 AM, Dogknox wrote:
dylancatlow
You asked.. Why do you keep quoting the Bible?
Simple answer is "I am CHRISTIAN"! Christians believe the scriptures.

Dogknox

Okay, so your method is only going to work on people that already agree with you i.e. those that belief the Bible is valid.
dylancatlow first off.... It is good to meet you...
You question... so your method is only going to work on people that already agree with you i.e. those that belief the Bible is valid.

I reply: My method is two thousand years old! There are over 1.2 BILLION Catholic's, that is Billion with a "B"!
dylancatlow That's a "WHACK" of people that accept (My) method! :-) Catholic' believe the scriptures, it is just this simple!

dylancatlow by your post.. I think I should assume you are NOT Christian, you reject the scriptures and the CHURCH!
dylancatlow I point out you still have your beliefs, you also have FAITH!
You BELIEVE the sun will rise tomorrow!
You have FAITH there is no god! etc

dylancatlow Man has ALWAYS believed in a god or gods in something or someone that is more powerful then man! The Cavemen on right up to today, it is the way it has always been! The North American Indian had their "Great White Spirit" for example!

You are the exception, you reject god... (I assume)

Dogknox
philochristos
Posts: 2,614
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3/27/2013 2:33:16 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/27/2013 2:15:57 PM, Nur-Ab-Sal wrote:
At 3/27/2013 2:15:44 PM, Nur-Ab-Sal wrote:
At 3/27/2013 2:10:10 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 3/27/2013 1:33:53 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 3/27/2013 11:44:04 AM, philochristos wrote:
I can't believe I'm not getting any credit for my parody. Tough crowd.

ha

Thank you.

No problem.

Oops, wrong account.

Hahahaha!!!!
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle