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Atheism

cybertron1998
Posts: 5,818
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3/25/2013 7:13:22 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
well you can't convince me that he does exist
Epsilon: There are so many stories where some brave hero decides to give their life to save the day, and because of their sacrifice, the good guys win, the survivors all cheer, and everybody lives happily ever after. But the hero... never gets to see that ending. They'll never know if their sacrifice actually made a difference. They'll never know if the day was really saved. In the end, they just have to have faith.
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,927
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3/25/2013 7:18:28 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/25/2013 7:12:20 PM, BigSky wrote:
If Christopher Hitchens couldn't convince me that God doesn't exist, no one can.

Your thoughts.

Have you read sophisticated atheistic literature - i.e. the likes of Paul Draper, J.L. Schellenberg, William Rowe, etc?
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BigSky
Posts: 141
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3/25/2013 7:25:26 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/25/2013 7:13:22 PM, cybertron1998 wrote:
well you can't convince me that he does exist

No lol, I probably can't.
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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3/25/2013 7:26:28 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/25/2013 7:12:20 PM, BigSky wrote:
If Christopher Hitchens couldn't convince me that God doesn't exist, no one can.

Your thoughts.

Christopher Hitchens is overrated.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
unitedandy
Posts: 1,173
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3/25/2013 7:28:00 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/25/2013 7:18:28 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 3/25/2013 7:12:20 PM, BigSky wrote:
If Christopher Hitchens couldn't convince me that God doesn't exist, no one can.

Your thoughts.

Have you read sophisticated atheistic literature - i.e. the likes of Paul Draper, J.L. Schellenberg, William Rowe, etc?

This. If a theist wants a serious challenge to their faith, take 30 mins and read Rowe's 1979 paper on the Problem of Evil. His 7 pages or so are just infinitely more effective than all of the New atheist stuff combined.
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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3/25/2013 7:28:40 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/25/2013 7:12:20 PM, BigSky wrote:
If Christopher Hitchens couldn't convince me that God doesn't exist, no one can.

Your thoughts.

Christopher Hitchens was good at bashing religion, he was not good at arguing against God's existence. I would recommend looking into Quentin Smith.
Apeiron
Posts: 2,446
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3/25/2013 7:46:02 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Screw that, justify your belief before you work on falsifying it. This stench of analytic nihilism on this site just blindly reduces things for which we have a good many reasons to believe in, even if we can't argue it, to nothing more than boredom. It sacrifices reasonable belief for rote destruction of everyday common sense, taking with it loads of rich experience. It's as if when you take a crap, your bowels get flushed with it, leaving you empty, all for the purpose of "averting your eyes."
Magic8000
Posts: 975
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3/25/2013 8:25:21 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/25/2013 7:26:28 PM, phantom wrote:
At 3/25/2013 7:12:20 PM, BigSky wrote:
If Christopher Hitchens couldn't convince me that God doesn't exist, no one can.

Your thoughts.

Christopher Hitchens is overrated.

Agreed. I've seen his debate with WLC, most atheists on here could do better. I do like him, but I've seen better. I recommend OP read some atheist philosophers like Michael Martin. Atheist philosophers know how to argue against religion because religion likes to use philosophical evidence because they have no scientific evidence.

http://en.wikipedia.org...
http://en.wikipedia.org...
404 coherent debate topic not found. Please restart the debate with clear resolution.

"So Magic8000 believes Einstein was a proctologist who was persuaded by the Government and Hitler to fabricate the Theory of Relativity"- GWL-CPA
slo1
Posts: 4,364
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3/25/2013 9:05:40 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/25/2013 7:12:20 PM, BigSky wrote:
If Christopher Hitchens couldn't convince me that God doesn't exist, no one can.

Your thoughts.

I do believe that nobody can, however, if one simply looks at odds, odds are your beliefs on the matter of God are wrong. Let's assume you are Christian.

1. Take all people on earth who believe in a reality just as strongly as you.

2. 1.6 billion Muslims, which while still believe in on God, is fundamentally incompatible with Christianity.

3. 1 billion Hindu are complete incompatible with the other major religions.

4. 2.3 billion Christians, who have many sub-sects which are incompatible. Let's just say the 1.2 billion Catholics who do not use a literal translation of the bible are incompatible with the other half of Christian.

5. .5 billion Buddists.

Just taking those segments of belief systems, it is 5.4 billion people. Even if the major categories did not have incompatible sub-sects, your odds of believing in the "right" God is 30% at best.

There can be no benefit of believing in God, if one does not believe in the "right" interpretation of God's intent and moral standards. In theory not believing in the "right" God is just as bad as not believing in God because you can not attain immortal bliss either way.

If one were to boil down incompatible sects, then I would imagine the odds that any one person's belief is correct is only 10% at best. For every 10% that think they have their belief right, there is another 90% who believe they have it "right-er"

In short, what is the point of believing in God if odds are that your beliefs in the nature of God and how he how he wants you to live to attain immortal grace is wrong and you are doomed for eternal suffering anyway?
Apeiron
Posts: 2,446
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3/25/2013 9:17:15 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/25/2013 8:25:21 PM, Magic8000 wrote:
At 3/25/2013 7:26:28 PM, phantom wrote:
At 3/25/2013 7:12:20 PM, BigSky wrote:
If Christopher Hitchens couldn't convince me that God doesn't exist, no one can.

Your thoughts.

Christopher Hitchens is overrated.

Agreed. I've seen his debate with WLC, most atheists on here could do better. I do like him, but I've seen better. I recommend OP read some atheist philosophers like Michael Martin. Atheist philosophers know how to argue against religion because religion likes to use philosophical evidence because they have no scientific evidence.

http://en.wikipedia.org...
http://en.wikipedia.org...

Most atheists on here have days to respond, the entire collective human knowledge in the form of the internet at their fingertips.. everyone on here is as brilliant as the entire world if they new how to search stuff.

Hitch went off the cuff. Pulled his own against Craig, lost miserably, but I still commend him for standing up for what he thought was true.
Nimbus328
Posts: 18
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3/25/2013 10:30:42 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/25/2013 7:12:20 PM, BigSky wrote:
If Christopher Hitchens couldn't convince me that God doesn't exist, no one can.

Your thoughts.

Faith is a strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof.

It's very unlikely that a religious person would lose their faith.
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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3/25/2013 11:31:09 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/25/2013 7:26:28 PM, phantom wrote:
At 3/25/2013 7:12:20 PM, BigSky wrote:
If Christopher Hitchens couldn't convince me that God doesn't exist, no one can.

Your thoughts.

Christopher Hitchens is overrated.
Pwner
Posts: 92
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3/26/2013 1:09:16 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Why give God more attention in reflection than other gods? I'm telling you, the natural theology for God simply pales in comparison to the natural theology available to the polytheist. There's just no competition.
wiploc
Posts: 1,485
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3/26/2013 1:10:07 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/25/2013 7:12:20 PM, BigSky wrote:
If Christopher Hitchens couldn't convince me that God doesn't exist, no one can.

Your thoughts.

If Plantinga and William Lane Craig can't convince me there is a god, nobody can.
Apeiron
Posts: 2,446
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3/26/2013 11:16:23 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 1:09:16 AM, Pwner wrote:
Why give God more attention in reflection than other gods? I'm telling you, the natural theology for God simply pales in comparison to the natural theology available to the polytheist. There's just no competition.

I'd love to see you justify this.
BigSky
Posts: 141
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3/26/2013 12:08:27 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/25/2013 8:25:21 PM, Magic8000 wrote:
At 3/25/2013 7:26:28 PM, phantom wrote:
At 3/25/2013 7:12:20 PM, BigSky wrote:
If Christopher Hitchens couldn't convince me that God doesn't exist, no one can.

Your thoughts.

Christopher Hitchens is overrated.

Agreed. I've seen his debate with WLC, most atheists on here could do better. I do like him, but I've seen better. I recommend OP read some atheist philosophers like Michael Martin. Atheist philosophers know how to argue against religion because religion likes to use philosophical evidence because they have no scientific evidence.

http://en.wikipedia.org...
http://en.wikipedia.org...

If atheists are better on here than Christopher Hitchens, why the hell do they spend their time debating when they could be making bank in real life.
wiploc
Posts: 1,485
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3/26/2013 12:15:11 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 12:08:27 PM, BigSky wrote:
If atheists are better on here than Christopher Hitchens, why the hell do they spend their time debating when they could be making bank in real life.

You're better than William Lane Craig if you are logical, so why don't you have his job?
BigSky
Posts: 141
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3/26/2013 12:19:37 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 12:15:11 PM, wiploc wrote:
At 3/26/2013 12:08:27 PM, BigSky wrote:
If atheists are better on here than Christopher Hitchens, why the hell do they spend their time debating when they could be making bank in real life.

You're better than William Lane Craig if you are logical, so why don't you have his job?

I'm not better than him, I am pathetic compared to any actual debater, theist or atheist. Like Apeiron said, I have the whole internet to use for my debates.
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,255
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3/26/2013 1:22:19 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Ultimately, it's up to the individual if they believe in God. A good argument rearranges what someone already believes into something coherent that is then accepted.
DakotaKrafick
Posts: 1,517
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3/26/2013 2:47:09 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/25/2013 7:12:20 PM, BigSky wrote:
If Christopher Hitchens couldn't convince me that God doesn't exist, no one can.

Your thoughts.

Did Hitchens even ever try to debunk the existence of God? I thought he wrote solely on the harmful effects religion has.
AlbinoBunny
Posts: 3,781
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3/27/2013 10:09:42 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/25/2013 10:17:29 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
If God could not convince me that God exists than [sic] no one can.
bladerunner060 | bsh1 , 2014! Presidency campaign!

http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org... - Running for president.
http://www.debate.org... - Running as his vice president.

May the best man win!
SinNoMore
Posts: 2
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3/27/2013 11:59:03 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
If we are just an absurd combination of atoms, then what good reason is there for life or purpose or survival? If knowledge is just a secretion of the human brain as acid is a secretion of the stomach, then why is anyone debating anything? If everything is meaningless, then...it just doesn't make any sense.
wiploc
Posts: 1,485
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3/28/2013 12:14:29 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/27/2013 11:59:03 PM, SinNoMore wrote:
If we are just an absurd combination of atoms, then what good reason is there for life or purpose or survival? If knowledge is just a secretion of the human brain as acid is a secretion of the stomach, then why is anyone debating anything? If everything is meaningless, then...it just doesn't make any sense.

If we are just slaves of an invisible eccentric, then what good reason is there for life or purpose or survival? If knowledge is just whatever the divine pervert decides to piss into our brains, then why is anyone debating anything? If everything is meaningless, then..it just doesn't make any sense.
SinNoMore
Posts: 2
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3/28/2013 12:59:32 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
If we are just slaves of an invisible eccentric, then what good reason is there for life or purpose or survival? If knowledge is just whatever the divine pervert decides to piss into our brains, then why is anyone debating anything? If everything is meaningless, then..it just doesn't make any sense.

You never answered my questions. Even though you cleverly re-worded my questions with an insulting reverse argument, it still leaves you in the same place, no matter which wording is used. What is your answer to this senseless meaninglessness? I have considered the atheist worldview, and I sincerely want to know what you make of it.
wiploc
Posts: 1,485
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3/28/2013 1:53:40 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/28/2013 12:59:32 AM, SinNoMore wrote:
If we are just slaves of an invisible eccentric, then what good reason is there for life or purpose or survival? If knowledge is just whatever the divine pervert decides to piss into our brains, then why is anyone debating anything? If everything is meaningless, then..it just doesn't make any sense.

You never answered my questions. Even though you cleverly re-worded my questions with an insulting reverse argument, it still leaves you in the same place, no matter which wording is used. What is your answer to this senseless meaninglessness? I have considered the atheist worldview, and I sincerely want to know what you make of it.

I don't know what you would accept as an answer. But, if you answer mine, then I'll be able to answer yours to your satisfaction.
AlbinoBunny
Posts: 3,781
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3/28/2013 3:07:53 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/27/2013 11:59:03 PM, SinNoMore wrote:
If we are just an absurd combination of atoms, then what good reason is there for life or purpose or survival? If knowledge is just a secretion of the human brain as acid is a secretion of the stomach, then why is anyone debating anything? If everything is meaningless, then...it just doesn't make any sense.

Absurd? My dear boy, no.

Because debating is fun and increases knowledge?

Maybe everything is meaningless... ?
bladerunner060 | bsh1 , 2014! Presidency campaign!

http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org... - Running for president.
http://www.debate.org... - Running as his vice president.

May the best man win!
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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3/28/2013 10:15:52 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/27/2013 11:59:03 PM, SinNoMore wrote:
If we are just an absurd combination of atoms, then what good reason is there for life or purpose or survival? If knowledge is just a secretion of the human brain as acid is a secretion of the stomach, then why is anyone debating anything? If everything is meaningless, then...it just doesn't make any sense.

Because evolution favors those who want to live.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)