Total Posts:103|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

If I were the Christian God, I'd be shocked..

dylancatlow
Posts: 12,254
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/26/2013 1:34:22 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I'd be shocked at how easy it was to convince billions of people to Christianity. I mean, I pretty much revealed myself in shockingly poor ways, and it still worked! Wow!
DakotaKrafick
Posts: 1,517
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/26/2013 2:45:30 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 1:34:22 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
I'd be shocked at how easy it was to convince billions of people to Christianity. I mean, I pretty much revealed myself in shockingly poor ways, and it still worked! Wow!

If you were the Christian God, you'd be omniscient and therefore incapable of feeling "shocked".
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/26/2013 3:25:44 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 1:34:22 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
I'd be shocked at how easy it was to convince billions of people to Christianity. I mean, I pretty much revealed myself in shockingly poor ways, and it still worked! Wow!

Humans are gullible. Millions of people believe this one dude from Mexico is a new Jesus, millions believe that UFO's are aliens, and countless people believe that when there house settles or something, it's a ghost. The fact that most of the world believes Christianity, shouldn't be shocking given the human race, but expected.
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/26/2013 3:26:13 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 2:45:30 PM, DakotaKrafick wrote:
At 3/26/2013 1:34:22 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
I'd be shocked at how easy it was to convince billions of people to Christianity. I mean, I pretty much revealed myself in shockingly poor ways, and it still worked! Wow!

If you were the Christian God, you'd be omniscient and therefore incapable of feeling "shocked".

Interesting point.
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,254
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/26/2013 6:40:24 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 2:45:30 PM, DakotaKrafick wrote:
At 3/26/2013 1:34:22 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
I'd be shocked at how easy it was to convince billions of people to Christianity. I mean, I pretty much revealed myself in shockingly poor ways, and it still worked! Wow!

If you were the Christian God, you'd be omniscient and therefore incapable of feeling "shocked".

The Christian God cannot be omniscient, because I have free will according to Christianity. If he knows what I'm going to do ahead of time, then I don't have free will by definition.
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,254
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/26/2013 6:40:55 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 6:40:24 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 3/26/2013 2:45:30 PM, DakotaKrafick wrote:
At 3/26/2013 1:34:22 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
I'd be shocked at how easy it was to convince billions of people to Christianity. I mean, I pretty much revealed myself in shockingly poor ways, and it still worked! Wow!

If you were the Christian God, you'd be omniscient and therefore incapable of feeling "shocked".

The Christian God cannot be omniscient, because I have free will according to Christianity. If he knows what I'm going to do ahead of time, then I don't have free will by definition.

I'm not saying that they don't claim God is omniscient, but they are so contradictory I don't know what side to take here:)
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,254
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/26/2013 6:42:32 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 3:25:44 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 3/26/2013 1:34:22 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
I'd be shocked at how easy it was to convince billions of people to Christianity. I mean, I pretty much revealed myself in shockingly poor ways, and it still worked! Wow!

Humans are gullible. Millions of people believe this one dude from Mexico is a new Jesus, millions believe that UFO's are aliens, and countless people believe that when there house settles or something, it's a ghost. The fact that most of the world believes Christianity, shouldn't be shocking given the human race, but expected.

Not necessarily. It would be very difficult to convince a billion people of anything using one or two people. It's possible of course (history...lol), but in terms of the ratio of success to failure, it's very low considering how many people hear voices and what not.
johnnyboy54
Posts: 6,362
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/26/2013 7:00:00 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 6:40:24 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 3/26/2013 2:45:30 PM, DakotaKrafick wrote:
At 3/26/2013 1:34:22 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
I'd be shocked at how easy it was to convince billions of people to Christianity. I mean, I pretty much revealed myself in shockingly poor ways, and it still worked! Wow!

If you were the Christian God, you'd be omniscient and therefore incapable of feeling "shocked".

The Christian God cannot be omniscient, because I have free will according to Christianity. If he knows what I'm going to do ahead of time, then I don't have free will by definition.

No it doesn't. Free will is the freedom to make choices of your own volition. It does not follow that if a being (God) knows what choices you will make in the future that you did not make those choices of your own volition.
I didn't order assholes with my whiskey.
matt.mcguire88
Posts: 1,137
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/26/2013 7:10:33 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 6:40:24 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 3/26/2013 2:45:30 PM, DakotaKrafick wrote:
At 3/26/2013 1:34:22 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
I'd be shocked at how easy it was to convince billions of people to Christianity. I mean, I pretty much revealed myself in shockingly poor ways, and it still worked! Wow!

If you were the Christian God, you'd be omniscient and therefore incapable of feeling "shocked".

The Christian God cannot be omniscient, because I have free will according to Christianity. If he knows what I'm going to do ahead of time, then I don't have free will by definition.

To me it is fairly simple, although noone seems to get it....

God knows your thoughts and the intents of your heart....

Therfore God knows what you will do before you do it, not because He caused or planned it.

If I had the ability to read your mind and thoughts, I'd be able to tell you what you were going to do before you did it. If I could examine your mind, then I would know what is inside you and what you dwell upon, therefore I would know what you desire and what actions you would decide to take without controlling or manipulating free will. God sees our thoughts and knows our intents long before they become material.

God does know what we will do before we do it, not because He ordained what you will eat for breakfast, but because He knows our hearts and our thoughts and our desires.

God does not control our thoughts, therefore God is not responsible for our actions.
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,254
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/26/2013 7:55:03 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 7:00:00 PM, johnnyboy54 wrote:
At 3/26/2013 6:40:24 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 3/26/2013 2:45:30 PM, DakotaKrafick wrote:
At 3/26/2013 1:34:22 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
I'd be shocked at how easy it was to convince billions of people to Christianity. I mean, I pretty much revealed myself in shockingly poor ways, and it still worked! Wow!

If you were the Christian God, you'd be omniscient and therefore incapable of feeling "shocked".

The Christian God cannot be omniscient, because I have free will according to Christianity. If he knows what I'm going to do ahead of time, then I don't have free will by definition.

No it doesn't. Free will is the freedom to make choices of your own volition. It does not follow that if a being (God) knows what choices you will make in the future that you did not make those choices of your own volition.

Then God isn't omniscient if he doesn't know what I'm going to do.
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,254
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/26/2013 7:56:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 7:10:33 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 3/26/2013 6:40:24 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 3/26/2013 2:45:30 PM, DakotaKrafick wrote:
At 3/26/2013 1:34:22 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
I'd be shocked at how easy it was to convince billions of people to Christianity. I mean, I pretty much revealed myself in shockingly poor ways, and it still worked! Wow!

If you were the Christian God, you'd be omniscient and therefore incapable of feeling "shocked".

The Christian God cannot be omniscient, because I have free will according to Christianity. If he knows what I'm going to do ahead of time, then I don't have free will by definition.

To me it is fairly simple, although noone seems to get it....

God knows your thoughts and the intents of your heart....

Therfore God knows what you will do before you do it, not because He caused or planned it.

If I had the ability to read your mind and thoughts, I'd be able to tell you what you were going to do before you did it. If I could examine your mind, then I would know what is inside you and what you dwell upon, therefore I would know what you desire and what actions you would decide to take without controlling or manipulating free will. God sees our thoughts and knows our intents long before they become material.

God does know what we will do before we do it, not because He ordained what you will eat for breakfast, but because He knows our hearts and our thoughts and our desires.

God does not control our thoughts, therefore God is not responsible for our actions.

If God knows what we will do before we do it, then our future is predestined based on our previous state and thus free will doesn't exist. You can't have it both ways, bud.
johnnyboy54
Posts: 6,362
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/26/2013 7:58:40 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 7:55:03 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 3/26/2013 7:00:00 PM, johnnyboy54 wrote:
At 3/26/2013 6:40:24 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 3/26/2013 2:45:30 PM, DakotaKrafick wrote:
At 3/26/2013 1:34:22 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
I'd be shocked at how easy it was to convince billions of people to Christianity. I mean, I pretty much revealed myself in shockingly poor ways, and it still worked! Wow!

If you were the Christian God, you'd be omniscient and therefore incapable of feeling "shocked".

The Christian God cannot be omniscient, because I have free will according to Christianity. If he knows what I'm going to do ahead of time, then I don't have free will by definition.

No it doesn't. Free will is the freedom to make choices of your own volition. It does not follow that if a being (God) knows what choices you will make in the future that you did not make those choices of your own volition.

Then God isn't omniscient if he doesn't know what I'm going to do.

What?

God knows what you are going to do, but you still have the will to do it. You haven't shown how God's knowledge of your future acts in any way interferes with your ability to make that choice.
I didn't order assholes with my whiskey.
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,254
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/26/2013 8:00:53 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 7:58:40 PM, johnnyboy54 wrote:
At 3/26/2013 7:55:03 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 3/26/2013 7:00:00 PM, johnnyboy54 wrote:
At 3/26/2013 6:40:24 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 3/26/2013 2:45:30 PM, DakotaKrafick wrote:
At 3/26/2013 1:34:22 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
I'd be shocked at how easy it was to convince billions of people to Christianity. I mean, I pretty much revealed myself in shockingly poor ways, and it still worked! Wow!

If you were the Christian God, you'd be omniscient and therefore incapable of feeling "shocked".

The Christian God cannot be omniscient, because I have free will according to Christianity. If he knows what I'm going to do ahead of time, then I don't have free will by definition.

No it doesn't. Free will is the freedom to make choices of your own volition. It does not follow that if a being (God) knows what choices you will make in the future that you did not make those choices of your own volition.

Then God isn't omniscient if he doesn't know what I'm going to do.

What?

God knows what you are going to do, but you still have the will to do it. You haven't shown how God's knowledge of your future acts in any way interferes with your ability to make that choice.

"You haven't shown how God's knowledge of your future acts in any way interferes with your ability to make that choice."

I didn't say it infers with it, I claimed that if God knows what we're going to do before we do it then we don't actually have free will, but are merely playing out our fate per God's knowledge.
YYW
Posts: 36,391
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/26/2013 8:09:48 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 1:34:22 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
I'd be shocked at how easy it was to convince billions of people to Christianity. I mean, I pretty much revealed myself in shockingly poor ways, and it still worked! Wow!

I'm shocked by the extent to which people debate the subject. I'm shocked that people think that arguments have any bearing on the existence or nonexistence of a god. I'm shocked that people think that they can reason their way to or out of faith. I'm shocked that 2/3 of the religious stuff on DDO has something to do with this topic. I'm shocked that people find arguments for or against the existence of a god compelling. I'm shocked that atheists think that they can disprove the existence of any god. I'm shocked that Christians think that faith has a grounding in reason. But that's just what I think, and my opinion is just as good as the next guy...
Tsar of DDO
philochristos
Posts: 2,614
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/26/2013 8:24:00 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I'm 39 years old. Nothing shocks me anymore. I've seen too much.
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
matt.mcguire88
Posts: 1,137
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/26/2013 8:27:48 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 7:56:41 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 3/26/2013 7:10:33 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 3/26/2013 6:40:24 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 3/26/2013 2:45:30 PM, DakotaKrafick wrote:
At 3/26/2013 1:34:22 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
I'd be shocked at how easy it was to convince billions of people to Christianity. I mean, I pretty much revealed myself in shockingly poor ways, and it still worked! Wow!

If you were the Christian God, you'd be omniscient and therefore incapable of feeling "shocked".

The Christian God cannot be omniscient, because I have free will according to Christianity. If he knows what I'm going to do ahead of time, then I don't have free will by definition.

To me it is fairly simple, although noone seems to get it....

God knows your thoughts and the intents of your heart....

Therfore God knows what you will do before you do it, not because He caused or planned it.

If I had the ability to read your mind and thoughts, I'd be able to tell you what you were going to do before you did it. If I could examine your mind, then I would know what is inside you and what you dwell upon, therefore I would know what you desire and what actions you would decide to take without controlling or manipulating free will. God sees our thoughts and knows our intents long before they become material.

God does know what we will do before we do it, not because He ordained what you will eat for breakfast, but because He knows our hearts and our thoughts and our desires.

God does not control our thoughts, therefore God is not responsible for our actions.

If God knows what we will do before we do it, then our future is predestined based on our previous state and thus free will doesn't exist. You can't have it both ways, bud.

Somehow I think that went over your head lol. Please reread that slowly. If you read it slowly you will clearly see that what I said in no way justifies predestination. If I could read YOUR thoughts, then I would know moments before you decided to take action what you were going to do before you did it....... Now how does that imply "predestination"??? Or better yet.... Let's say that "I" had the ability to read your mind; If I did, then I would simply know anything you were going to do before you did it. I would know what you wanted for lunch before you actually sat down to eat it, NOT because I predestined what you would eat, but because I knew your thoughts and intents. God knows your thoughts and intents prior to you making a decision because all actions begin with a thought, therefor God knows what you will do because He sees you intentions before they become a reality......Know what I mean?
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,254
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/26/2013 8:29:58 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 8:09:48 PM, YYW wrote:
At 3/26/2013 1:34:22 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
I'd be shocked at how easy it was to convince billions of people to Christianity. I mean, I pretty much revealed myself in shockingly poor ways, and it still worked! Wow!

I'm shocked by the extent to which people debate the subject. I'm shocked that people think that arguments have any bearing on the existence or nonexistence of a god. I'm shocked that people think that they can reason their way to or out of faith. I'm shocked that 2/3 of the religious stuff on DDO has something to do with this topic. I'm shocked that people find arguments for or against the existence of a god compelling. I'm shocked that atheists think that they can disprove the existence of any god. I'm shocked that Christians think that faith has a grounding in reason. But that's just what I think, and my opinion is just as good as the next guy...

You: http://xkcd.com...
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,254
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/26/2013 8:32:30 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
"If I could read YOUR thoughts, then I would know moments before you decided to take action what you were going to do before you did it....... Now how does that imply "predestination"??? "

How doesn't it ??? You could tell my future actions given a specific state, that state was achieved the same way and so on. No more free will than a rock falling.
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,254
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/26/2013 8:33:55 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 8:09:48 PM, YYW wrote:
At 3/26/2013 1:34:22 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
I'd be shocked at how easy it was to convince billions of people to Christianity. I mean, I pretty much revealed myself in shockingly poor ways, and it still worked! Wow!

I'm shocked by the extent to which people debate the subject. I'm shocked that people think that arguments have any bearing on the existence or nonexistence of a god. I'm shocked that people think that they can reason their way to or out of faith. I'm shocked that 2/3 of the religious stuff on DDO has something to do with this topic. I'm shocked that people find arguments for or against the existence of a god compelling. I'm shocked that atheists think that they can disprove the existence of any god. I'm shocked that Christians think that faith has a grounding in reason. But that's just what I think, and my opinion is just as good as the next guy...

"I'm shocked that people find arguments for or against the existence of a god compelling."

Why are you protestant, then?
matt.mcguire88
Posts: 1,137
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/26/2013 8:40:24 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 8:32:30 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
"If I could read YOUR thoughts, then I would know moments before you decided to take action what you were going to do before you did it....... Now how does that imply "predestination"??? "

How doesn't it ??? You could tell my future actions given a specific state, that state was achieved the same way and so on. No more free will than a rock falling.

That doesn't make sense...
If I was God and I could know your mind and thoughts...... Then I could simply know what you will DECIDE to choose. For example: You have been thinking about purchasing a new bike, what brand, what color, and from where.... Before you decided to take action and go out and get the bike that YOU DECIDED you wanted, you had already thought about it and planned it. Now....... If I were God, I would know exactly what you wanted, because I knew your thoughts and your desires and plans as you thought of them, not because I predestinated you to like that certain bike, but because I knew your heart and YOUR plans.
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,254
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/26/2013 8:42:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 8:40:24 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 3/26/2013 8:32:30 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
"If I could read YOUR thoughts, then I would know moments before you decided to take action what you were going to do before you did it....... Now how does that imply "predestination"??? "

How doesn't it ??? You could tell my future actions given a specific state, that state was achieved the same way and so on. No more free will than a rock falling.

That doesn't make sense...
If I was God and I could know your mind and thoughts...... Then I could simply know what you will DECIDE to choose. For example: You have been thinking about purchasing a new bike, what brand, what color, and from where.... Before you decided to take action and go out and get the bike that YOU DECIDED you wanted, you had already thought about it and planned it. Now....... If I were God, I would know exactly what you wanted, because I knew your thoughts and your desires and plans as you thought of them, not because I predestinated you to like that certain bike, but because I knew your heart and YOUR plans.

Let me break it down for you:

(1) God knows how I will behave given me at a certain state

(2) I did not choose to be in that state, because I did not choose to be in the state that got me into that state

(3) I didn't choose to be born, so all states I'm in I didn't choose

(4) I don't have free will.
matt.mcguire88
Posts: 1,137
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/26/2013 8:48:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 8:42:41 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 3/26/2013 8:40:24 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 3/26/2013 8:32:30 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
"If I could read YOUR thoughts, then I would know moments before you decided to take action what you were going to do before you did it....... Now how does that imply "predestination"??? "

How doesn't it ??? You could tell my future actions given a specific state, that state was achieved the same way and so on. No more free will than a rock falling.

That doesn't make sense...
If I was God and I could know your mind and thoughts...... Then I could simply know what you will DECIDE to choose. For example: You have been thinking about purchasing a new bike, what brand, what color, and from where.... Before you decided to take action and go out and get the bike that YOU DECIDED you wanted, you had already thought about it and planned it. Now....... If I were God, I would know exactly what you wanted, because I knew your thoughts and your desires and plans as you thought of them, not because I predestinated you to like that certain bike, but because I knew your heart and YOUR plans.

Let me break it down for you:

(1) God knows how I will behave given me at a certain state

(2) I did not choose to be in that state, because I did not choose to be in the state that got me into that state

(3) I didn't choose to be born, so all states I'm in I didn't choose

(4) I don't have free will.

Free will to do what?
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,254
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/26/2013 8:49:43 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 8:48:38 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 3/26/2013 8:42:41 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 3/26/2013 8:40:24 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 3/26/2013 8:32:30 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
"If I could read YOUR thoughts, then I would know moments before you decided to take action what you were going to do before you did it....... Now how does that imply "predestination"??? "

How doesn't it ??? You could tell my future actions given a specific state, that state was achieved the same way and so on. No more free will than a rock falling.

That doesn't make sense...
If I was God and I could know your mind and thoughts...... Then I could simply know what you will DECIDE to choose. For example: You have been thinking about purchasing a new bike, what brand, what color, and from where.... Before you decided to take action and go out and get the bike that YOU DECIDED you wanted, you had already thought about it and planned it. Now....... If I were God, I would know exactly what you wanted, because I knew your thoughts and your desires and plans as you thought of them, not because I predestinated you to like that certain bike, but because I knew your heart and YOUR plans.

Let me break it down for you:

(1) God knows how I will behave given me at a certain state

(2) I did not choose to be in that state, because I did not choose to be in the state that got me into that state

(3) I didn't choose to be born, so all states I'm in I didn't choose

(4) I don't have free will.

Free will to do what?

?
matt.mcguire88
Posts: 1,137
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/26/2013 8:51:55 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 8:49:43 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 3/26/2013 8:48:38 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 3/26/2013 8:42:41 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 3/26/2013 8:40:24 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 3/26/2013 8:32:30 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
"If I could read YOUR thoughts, then I would know moments before you decided to take action what you were going to do before you did it....... Now how does that imply "predestination"??? "

How doesn't it ??? You could tell my future actions given a specific state, that state was achieved the same way and so on. No more free will than a rock falling.

That doesn't make sense...
If I was God and I could know your mind and thoughts...... Then I could simply know what you will DECIDE to choose. For example: You have been thinking about purchasing a new bike, what brand, what color, and from where.... Before you decided to take action and go out and get the bike that YOU DECIDED you wanted, you had already thought about it and planned it. Now....... If I were God, I would know exactly what you wanted, because I knew your thoughts and your desires and plans as you thought of them, not because I predestinated you to like that certain bike, but because I knew your heart and YOUR plans.

Let me break it down for you:

(1) God knows how I will behave given me at a certain state

(2) I did not choose to be in that state, because I did not choose to be in the state that got me into that state

(3) I didn't choose to be born, so all states I'm in I didn't choose

(4) I don't have free will.

Free will to do what?

?

Nevermind man
YYW
Posts: 36,391
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/26/2013 8:52:30 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 8:29:58 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 3/26/2013 8:09:48 PM, YYW wrote:
At 3/26/2013 1:34:22 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
I'd be shocked at how easy it was to convince billions of people to Christianity. I mean, I pretty much revealed myself in shockingly poor ways, and it still worked! Wow!

I'm shocked by the extent to which people debate the subject. I'm shocked that people think that arguments have any bearing on the existence or nonexistence of a god. I'm shocked that people think that they can reason their way to or out of faith. I'm shocked that 2/3 of the religious stuff on DDO has something to do with this topic. I'm shocked that people find arguments for or against the existence of a god compelling. I'm shocked that atheists think that they can disprove the existence of any god. I'm shocked that Christians think that faith has a grounding in reason. But that's just what I think, and my opinion is just as good as the next guy...

You: http://xkcd.com...

No, the basis is not my own desire to feel "superior." The basis is my frustration with dogmatic nonsense and the general lack of understanding that those who debate this subject have about the capacity of argumentation. That said, my view is generally regarded as a "middle finger" to apologetics of both christianity and atheism.
Tsar of DDO
YYW
Posts: 36,391
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/26/2013 8:53:32 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 8:33:55 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 3/26/2013 8:09:48 PM, YYW wrote:
At 3/26/2013 1:34:22 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
I'd be shocked at how easy it was to convince billions of people to Christianity. I mean, I pretty much revealed myself in shockingly poor ways, and it still worked! Wow!

I'm shocked by the extent to which people debate the subject. I'm shocked that people think that arguments have any bearing on the existence or nonexistence of a god. I'm shocked that people think that they can reason their way to or out of faith. I'm shocked that 2/3 of the religious stuff on DDO has something to do with this topic. I'm shocked that people find arguments for or against the existence of a god compelling. I'm shocked that atheists think that they can disprove the existence of any god. I'm shocked that Christians think that faith has a grounding in reason. But that's just what I think, and my opinion is just as good as the next guy...

"I'm shocked that people find arguments for or against the existence of a god compelling."

Why are you protestant, then?

Because faith is not reason, and argumentation is no means to faith (where faith is the only means by which the belief in any god may be accepted).
Tsar of DDO
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,254
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/26/2013 8:58:33 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 8:53:32 PM, YYW wrote:
At 3/26/2013 8:33:55 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 3/26/2013 8:09:48 PM, YYW wrote:
At 3/26/2013 1:34:22 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
I'd be shocked at how easy it was to convince billions of people to Christianity. I mean, I pretty much revealed myself in shockingly poor ways, and it still worked! Wow!

I'm shocked by the extent to which people debate the subject. I'm shocked that people think that arguments have any bearing on the existence or nonexistence of a god. I'm shocked that people think that they can reason their way to or out of faith. I'm shocked that 2/3 of the religious stuff on DDO has something to do with this topic. I'm shocked that people find arguments for or against the existence of a god compelling. I'm shocked that atheists think that they can disprove the existence of any god. I'm shocked that Christians think that faith has a grounding in reason. But that's just what I think, and my opinion is just as good as the next guy...

"I'm shocked that people find arguments for or against the existence of a god compelling."

Why are you protestant, then?

Because faith is not reason, and argumentation is no means to faith (where faith is the only means by which the belief in any god may be accepted).

Why aren't you agnostic if you don't think God can be proven one way or the other?
YYW
Posts: 36,391
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/27/2013 1:38:57 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 8:58:33 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 3/26/2013 8:53:32 PM, YYW wrote:
At 3/26/2013 8:33:55 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 3/26/2013 8:09:48 PM, YYW wrote:
At 3/26/2013 1:34:22 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
I'd be shocked at how easy it was to convince billions of people to Christianity. I mean, I pretty much revealed myself in shockingly poor ways, and it still worked! Wow!

I'm shocked by the extent to which people debate the subject. I'm shocked that people think that arguments have any bearing on the existence or nonexistence of a god. I'm shocked that people think that they can reason their way to or out of faith. I'm shocked that 2/3 of the religious stuff on DDO has something to do with this topic. I'm shocked that people find arguments for or against the existence of a god compelling. I'm shocked that atheists think that they can disprove the existence of any god. I'm shocked that Christians think that faith has a grounding in reason. But that's just what I think, and my opinion is just as good as the next guy...

"I'm shocked that people find arguments for or against the existence of a god compelling."

Why are you protestant, then?

Because faith is not reason, and argumentation is no means to faith (where faith is the only means by which the belief in any god may be accepted).

Why aren't you agnostic if you don't think God can be proven one way or the other?

Because I have FAITH both that God exists and that the one true god is the Christian God. Faith is not reason, and no position of faith should be taken on a reasonable basis. There is no way to rationally argue one's way to belief in God. It's just not possible. One may argue, and that's fine, but it's meaningless -because it's still an act of faith, and faith alone (even if reason is masquerading as faith).

There have been MANY threads where I've talked about this. I'm sure if you were interested, you could find them.
Tsar of DDO
000ike
Posts: 11,196
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/27/2013 1:42:14 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/27/2013 1:38:57 PM, YYW wrote:

Because I have FAITH both that God exists and that the one true god is the Christian God. Faith is not reason, and no position of faith should be taken on a reasonable basis. There is no way to rationally argue one's way to belief in God. It's just not possible. One may argue, and that's fine, but it's meaningless -because it's still an act of faith, and faith alone (even if reason is masquerading as faith).

There have been MANY threads where I've talked about this. I'm sure if you were interested, you could find them.

I always thought you were cerebral. I don't know what this rubbish is. Appeal to faith,...really?...Really?

What is faith? Explain it, please.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault