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One reason why Pascal's wager fails

dylancatlow
Posts: 12,254
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3/26/2013 9:14:40 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Pascal's wager fails is that it assumes being wrong will cost a believer nothing (or nothing compared to infinity(. This is false, because an invalid belief can have disastrous consequences on the believer and those around him. If there is no afterlife, and this life is it, any loss in this life is truly infinite, because it's the only thing to consider (it's everything). If you want to claim that anything in this realm is infinitely less meaningful than the possibility of the rewards or punishments of the afterlife, shouldn't all you Christians secretly want to die while you believe in God before you have the possibility of screwing it up and going to hell ... I know you can't commit suicide, they sort of... covered that :)
twocupcakes
Posts: 2,750
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3/26/2013 9:32:26 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
It also fails because of other Gods. A God that rewards Christians is just as random as a God that punishes Christians. A God that punshes atheists is just as random as a God that rewards atheists. So, you cannt say that being a Christian maximises utility.
StevenDixon
Posts: 178
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3/26/2013 10:33:35 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Person1 believes If he doesn't do 30 push ups every day for one year he will explode

Person 2 believes If he doesn't do 30 push ups every day for one year day he won't explode

If person 1 is correct and he does it it then after the year he's be far more physically fit than the person who doesn't and person 2 will explode while person one is fine.

If person 2 is correct and and doesn't do it then he won't gain the strength and both person one and person two see the same consequences.

Obviously...person 1 has a better position....
bossyburrito
Posts: 14,075
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3/26/2013 10:44:59 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 10:33:35 PM, StevenDixon wrote:
Person1 believes If he doesn't do 30 push ups every day for one year he will explode

Person 2 believes If he doesn't do 30 push ups every day for one year day he won't explode

If person 1 is correct and he does it it then after the year he's be far more physically fit than the person who doesn't and person 2 will explode while person one is fine.

If person 2 is correct and and doesn't do it then he won't gain the strength and both person one and person two see the same consequences.


Obviously...person 1 has a better position....

What if doing 30 push-ups a day makes you blow up?
#UnbanTheMadman

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

~ Rush
Nimbus328
Posts: 18
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3/26/2013 10:48:57 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 10:44:59 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
At 3/26/2013 10:33:35 PM, StevenDixon wrote:
Person1 believes If he doesn't do 30 push ups every day for one year he will explode

Person 2 believes If he doesn't do 30 push ups every day for one year day he won't explode

If person 1 is correct and he does it it then after the year he's be far more physically fit than the person who doesn't and person 2 will explode while person one is fine.

If person 2 is correct and and doesn't do it then he won't gain the strength and both person one and person two see the same consequences.


Obviously...person 1 has a better position....

What if doing 30 push-ups a day makes you blow up?

Love it.
Dogknox
Posts: 5,087
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3/26/2013 10:49:27 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 9:14:40 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
Pascal's wager fails is that it assumes being wrong will cost a believer nothing (or nothing compared to infinity(. This is false, because an invalid belief can have disastrous consequences on the believer and those around him. If there is no afterlife, and this life is it, any loss in this life is truly infinite, because it's the only thing to consider (it's everything). If you want to claim that anything in this realm is infinitely less meaningful than the possibility of the rewards or punishments of the afterlife, shouldn't all you Christians secretly want to die while you believe in God before you have the possibility of screwing it up and going to hell ... I know you can't commit suicide, they sort of... covered that :)

WRONG... A little time spent in prayer is miniscule to eternity spent in Agony burning in the "Lake of fire"!
dylancatlow You are WHACK-OH to think otherwise!

41 "Then he will say to those on his left, "Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

Dogknox
Nimbus328
Posts: 18
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3/26/2013 10:50:21 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
What if they're both wrong, and the central issue is winning at chess? They both explode, and the rest of the world is wondering what ELO is required to not get the punishment.
Nimbus328
Posts: 18
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3/26/2013 10:51:19 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
WRONG... A little time spent in prayer is miniscule to eternity spent in Agony burning in the "Lake of fire"!
dylancatlow You are WHACK-OH to think otherwise!

41 "Then he will say to those on his left, "Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

Dogknox

That's why I'm praising Buddhism. We pray too.
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,254
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3/26/2013 10:52:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 10:49:27 PM, Dogknox wrote:
At 3/26/2013 9:14:40 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
Pascal's wager fails is that it assumes being wrong will cost a believer nothing (or nothing compared to infinity(. This is false, because an invalid belief can have disastrous consequences on the believer and those around him. If there is no afterlife, and this life is it, any loss in this life is truly infinite, because it's the only thing to consider (it's everything). If you want to claim that anything in this realm is infinitely less meaningful than the possibility of the rewards or punishments of the afterlife, shouldn't all you Christians secretly want to die while you believe in God before you have the possibility of screwing it up and going to hell ... I know you can't commit suicide, they sort of... covered that :)

WRONG... A little time spent in prayer is miniscule to eternity spent in Agony burning in the "Lake of fire"!
dylancatlow You are WHACK-OH to think otherwise!

41 "Then he will say to those on his left, "Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

Dogknox

The time I would lose praying in that manner means more to me than the chance of me going to hell (effectively zero percent chance, in my eyes).
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,254
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3/26/2013 10:53:24 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 10:52:38 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 3/26/2013 10:49:27 PM, Dogknox wrote:
At 3/26/2013 9:14:40 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
Pascal's wager fails is that it assumes being wrong will cost a believer nothing (or nothing compared to infinity(. This is false, because an invalid belief can have disastrous consequences on the believer and those around him. If there is no afterlife, and this life is it, any loss in this life is truly infinite, because it's the only thing to consider (it's everything). If you want to claim that anything in this realm is infinitely less meaningful than the possibility of the rewards or punishments of the afterlife, shouldn't all you Christians secretly want to die while you believe in God before you have the possibility of screwing it up and going to hell ... I know you can't commit suicide, they sort of... covered that :)

WRONG... A little time spent in prayer is miniscule to eternity spent in Agony burning in the "Lake of fire"!
dylancatlow You are WHACK-OH to think otherwise!

41 "Then he will say to those on his left, "Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

Dogknox

The time I would lose praying in that manner means more to me than the chance of me going to hell (effectively zero percent chance, in my eyes).

Even if I wanted to, I don't think I could believe in Christianity, so it's sort of out of the question.
Dogknox
Posts: 5,087
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3/26/2013 10:55:03 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 10:51:19 PM, Nimbus328 wrote:
WRONG... A little time spent in prayer is miniscule to eternity spent in Agony burning in the "Lake of fire"!
dylancatlow You are WHACK-OH to think otherwise!

41 "Then he will say to those on his left, "Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

Dogknox

That's why I'm praising Buddhism. We pray too.
Nimbus328 RIGHT.. Even Buddhist go to heaven!
The man who rejects God as a lie, might not !

Dogknox
Nimbus328
Posts: 18
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3/26/2013 10:56:14 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 10:53:24 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
Even if I wanted to, I don't think I could believe in Christianity, so it's sort of out of the question.

I had someone tell me that BIBLE meant Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth.

It's a rather long instruction manual if you ask me, and it's rather confusing and contradictory.
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,254
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3/26/2013 10:57:02 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 10:55:03 PM, Dogknox wrote:
At 3/26/2013 10:51:19 PM, Nimbus328 wrote:
WRONG... A little time spent in prayer is miniscule to eternity spent in Agony burning in the "Lake of fire"!
dylancatlow You are WHACK-OH to think otherwise!

41 "Then he will say to those on his left, "Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

Dogknox

That's why I'm praising Buddhism. We pray too.
Nimbus328 RIGHT.. Even Buddhist go to heaven!
The man who rejects God as a lie, might not !

Dogknox

< Might not go to heaven.

Pray for me.
Dogknox
Posts: 5,087
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3/26/2013 10:58:09 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 10:53:24 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 3/26/2013 10:52:38 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 3/26/2013 10:49:27 PM, Dogknox wrote:
At 3/26/2013 9:14:40 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
Pascal's wager fails is that it assumes being wrong will cost a believer nothing (or nothing compared to infinity(. This is false, because an invalid belief can have disastrous consequences on the believer and those around him. If there is no afterlife, and this life is it, any loss in this life is truly infinite, because it's the only thing to consider (it's everything). If you want to claim that anything in this realm is infinitely less meaningful than the possibility of the rewards or punishments of the afterlife, shouldn't all you Christians secretly want to die while you believe in God before you have the possibility of screwing it up and going to hell ... I know you can't commit suicide, they sort of... covered that :)

WRONG... A little time spent in prayer is miniscule to eternity spent in Agony burning in the "Lake of fire"!
dylancatlow You are WHACK-OH to think otherwise!

41 "Then he will say to those on his left, "Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

Dogknox

The time I would lose praying in that manner means more to me than the chance of me going to hell (effectively zero percent chance, in my eyes).

Even if I wanted to, I don't think I could believe in Christianity, so it's sort of out of the question.

So your problem is NOT the time spent in prayer.. It is your lack of faith!

dylancatlow Even Atheists need faith they believe there is no God! Too bad your FAITH was not in a God, then in yourself!

Dogknox
Brony
Posts: 21
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3/26/2013 10:58:51 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 10:55:03 PM, Dogknox wrote:
At 3/26/2013 10:51:19 PM, Nimbus328 wrote:
WRONG... A little time spent in prayer is miniscule to eternity spent in Agony burning in the "Lake of fire"!
dylancatlow You are WHACK-OH to think otherwise!

41 "Then he will say to those on his left, "Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

Dogknox

That's why I'm praising Buddhism. We pray too.
Nimbus328 RIGHT.. Even Buddhist go to heaven!
The man who rejects God as a lie, might not !

Dogknox

i thought people of different religions go to hell because they dont accept jesus
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,254
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3/26/2013 11:00:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 10:58:09 PM, Dogknox wrote:
At 3/26/2013 10:53:24 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 3/26/2013 10:52:38 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 3/26/2013 10:49:27 PM, Dogknox wrote:
At 3/26/2013 9:14:40 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
Pascal's wager fails is that it assumes being wrong will cost a believer nothing (or nothing compared to infinity(. This is false, because an invalid belief can have disastrous consequences on the believer and those around him. If there is no afterlife, and this life is it, any loss in this life is truly infinite, because it's the only thing to consider (it's everything). If you want to claim that anything in this realm is infinitely less meaningful than the possibility of the rewards or punishments of the afterlife, shouldn't all you Christians secretly want to die while you believe in God before you have the possibility of screwing it up and going to hell ... I know you can't commit suicide, they sort of... covered that :)

WRONG... A little time spent in prayer is miniscule to eternity spent in Agony burning in the "Lake of fire"!
dylancatlow You are WHACK-OH to think otherwise!

41 "Then he will say to those on his left, "Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

Dogknox

The time I would lose praying in that manner means more to me than the chance of me going to hell (effectively zero percent chance, in my eyes).

Even if I wanted to, I don't think I could believe in Christianity, so it's sort of out of the question.

So your problem is NOT the time spent in prayer.. It is your lack of faith!

dylancatlow Even Atheists need faith they believe there is no God! Too bad your FAITH was not in a God, then in yourself!

Dogknox

It's not faith, it's a conviction.
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,254
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3/26/2013 11:01:25 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 10:58:51 PM, Brony wrote:
At 3/26/2013 10:55:03 PM, Dogknox wrote:
At 3/26/2013 10:51:19 PM, Nimbus328 wrote:
WRONG... A little time spent in prayer is miniscule to eternity spent in Agony burning in the "Lake of fire"!
dylancatlow You are WHACK-OH to think otherwise!

41 "Then he will say to those on his left, "Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

Dogknox

That's why I'm praising Buddhism. We pray too.
Nimbus328 RIGHT.. Even Buddhist go to heaven!
The man who rejects God as a lie, might not !

Dogknox

i thought people of different religions go to hell because they dont accept jesus

Only if they heard of Jesus and rejected him. So tribal cut off from the rest of the world people are safe. Seems legit.
Dogknox
Posts: 5,087
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3/26/2013 11:02:52 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 10:57:02 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 3/26/2013 10:55:03 PM, Dogknox wrote:
At 3/26/2013 10:51:19 PM, Nimbus328 wrote:
WRONG... A little time spent in prayer is miniscule to eternity spent in Agony burning in the "Lake of fire"!
dylancatlow You are WHACK-OH to think otherwise!

41 "Then he will say to those on his left, "Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

Dogknox

That's why I'm praising Buddhism. We pray too.
Nimbus328 RIGHT.. Even Buddhist go to heaven!
The man who rejects God as a lie, might not !

Dogknox

< Might not go to heaven.

Pray for me.

I would never say "You will not go to heaven" only God is the Judge!

Here it is in a nut shell..
"God is LOVE" (this is direct from scriptures)!
If you "LOVE" then you have God in your self!
God would never put himself into the lake of fire.. so your salvation will come from your heart!
dylancatlow "DO YOU LOVE"!?

Love is: "Giving of yourself from your heart".. as the sheep feeding the hungry end up in heaven!

The Sheep and the Goats
Matthew 25
31 "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34 "Then the King will say to those on his right, "Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me."

37 "Then the righteous will answer him, "Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?"

40 "The King will reply, "Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me."


Dogknox
Dogknox
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3/26/2013 11:04:25 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 10:56:14 PM, Nimbus328 wrote:
At 3/26/2013 10:53:24 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
Even if I wanted to, I don't think I could believe in Christianity, so it's sort of out of the question.

I had someone tell me that BIBLE meant Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth.

It's a rather long instruction manual if you ask me, and it's rather confusing and contradictory.

NOPE: The Bible is just a "Love Letter"; From God to man!

Dogknox
Dogknox
Posts: 5,087
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3/26/2013 11:08:12 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 10:58:51 PM, Brony wrote:
At 3/26/2013 10:55:03 PM, Dogknox wrote:
At 3/26/2013 10:51:19 PM, Nimbus328 wrote:
WRONG... A little time spent in prayer is miniscule to eternity spent in Agony burning in the "Lake of fire"!
dylancatlow You are WHACK-OH to think otherwise!

41 "Then he will say to those on his left, "Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

Dogknox

That's why I'm praising Buddhism. We pray too.
Nimbus328 RIGHT.. Even Buddhist go to heaven!
The man who rejects God as a lie, might not !

Dogknox

i thought people of different religions go to hell because they dont accept jesus

Brony think it out...
The North American Indian never had missionary's for sixteen hundred years AFTER Jesus destroyed death! They would have gone to heaven, if they LOVED their neighbor!

The TWO GREAT COMMANDS of God.. "Love God and/or Neighbor" is what saves!

Dogknox
Brony
Posts: 21
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3/26/2013 11:10:40 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 11:08:12 PM, Dogknox wrote:
Brony think it out...
The North American Indian never had missionary's for sixteen hundred years AFTER Jesus destroyed death! They would have gone to heaven, if they LOVED their neighbor!

The TWO GREAT COMMANDS of God.. "Love God and/or Neighbor" is what saves!

Dogknox

i have a friend who is atheist and he is nice to his neighbors and everyone likes him for his personality so he is going to heaven with the native americans?
Dogknox
Posts: 5,087
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3/26/2013 11:13:33 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
All people who LOVE, are people who have let go of self for their neighbor, for another .. You can't LOVE without giving of yourself from the heart! Like Jesus did!

Fact is; Man was saved by; "LOVE ALONE".. Jesus is God and God is LOVE!

All who love go to heaven!

Dogknox
Dogknox
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3/26/2013 11:18:45 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 11:10:40 PM, Brony wrote:
At 3/26/2013 11:08:12 PM, Dogknox wrote:
Brony think it out...
The North American Indian never had missionary's for sixteen hundred years AFTER Jesus destroyed death! They would have gone to heaven, if they LOVED their neighbor!

The TWO GREAT COMMANDS of God.. "Love God and/or Neighbor" is what saves!

Dogknox

i have a friend who is atheist and he is nice to his neighbors and everyone likes him for his personality so he is going to heaven with the native americans?
Like I said.. Only God can do the judging! BUT I would say YES.

The "Thief on the cross" died beside Jesus.. He was a THIEF!! (a bad guy)
Jesus said outright.. "Today you will be with me in paradise"!

40 But the other criminal rebuked him. "Don"t you fear God," he said, "since you are under the same sentence? 41 We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong."
42 Then he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom."
43 Jesus answered him, "Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise."


Repent... "Do right"!

Dogknox
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,254
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3/26/2013 11:19:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 11:13:33 PM, Dogknox wrote:
All people who LOVE, are people who have let go of self for their neighbor, for another .. You can't LOVE without giving of yourself from the heart! Like Jesus did!

Fact is; Man was saved by; "LOVE ALONE".. Jesus is God and God is LOVE!

All who love go to heaven!

Dogknox

Why would finite actions constitute justification for infinite rewards? And infinite punishment?
Dogknox
Posts: 5,087
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3/26/2013 11:24:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 11:19:38 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 3/26/2013 11:13:33 PM, Dogknox wrote:
All people who LOVE, are people who have let go of self for their neighbor, for another .. You can't LOVE without giving of yourself from the heart! Like Jesus did!

Fact is; Man was saved by; "LOVE ALONE".. Jesus is God and God is LOVE!

All who love go to heaven!

Dogknox

Why would finite actions constitute justification for infinite rewards? And infinite punishment?

Good question...
BUT as pointed out.. "GOD IS LOVE"!
Love means "GIVING OF SELF"!

So we can assume, God loves us Sooo.... So very much, that he is even willing to give us his own son!!
Jesus LOVES his father sooooo....... much that he was willing to let go of himself even death on a cross in obedience to his dad!

dylancatlow Hard to believe the depth of Gods love.. is it not!?

Dogknox
annanicole
Posts: 19,791
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3/27/2013 1:06:33 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Dogknox: "Fact is; Man was saved by; "LOVE ALONE".. Jesus is God and God is LOVE! All who love go to heaven!"

Anna: No, they don't - not according to Catholic doctrine.

(1) "... "outside of her (the Roman Catholic Church) there is neither salvation nor the remission of sins."

(2) "Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff."

Both quotes are from the Unam Sanctum, the papal bull issued by infallible papa Boniface VIII in 1302. You can easily see the gist of it by Wikipedia-ing "unam sanctum."

Soooooo ... there's no need in you endlessly yapping about 'everyone who loves is headed to heaven' - unless you think the only folks in the world who love are Roman Catholics who kiss the toe of the "Roman pontiff."
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."