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Christians and the Big Bang.

Magic8000
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3/30/2013 10:14:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I see a lot of Christians attacking the Big Bang. I really don't understand why. The Big Bang says nothing about what created it, it just says how it was created. There's nothing contradictory to any type of faith or belief in the BB model.
404 coherent debate topic not found. Please restart the debate with clear resolution.

"So Magic8000 believes Einstein was a proctologist who was persuaded by the Government and Hitler to fabricate the Theory of Relativity"- GWL-CPA
philochristos
Posts: 2,614
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3/30/2013 10:16:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/30/2013 10:14:01 PM, Magic8000 wrote:
I see a lot of Christians attacking the Big Bang. I really don't understand why. The Big Bang says nothing about what created it, it just says how it was created. There's nothing contradictory to any type of faith or belief in the BB model.

I suspect a lot of Christians reject the big bang because they subscribe to a young earth model of creation, and the big bang contradicts that.
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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3/30/2013 10:42:45 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Ironically, it was atheists who most objected to the big bang when the theory first came out. The big bang implies a beginning of the universe; something atheists used to deny to refute it ever having been created. It was considered a great step in the theists favor when it entered. Theists should be glad about it. Though of course, you'll only some theists who have a problem with it.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
phantom
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3/30/2013 11:07:42 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/30/2013 10:42:45 PM, phantom wrote:
Ironically, it was atheists who most objected to the big bang when the theory first came out. The big bang implies a beginning of the universe; something atheists used to deny to refute it ever having been created. It was considered a great step in the theists favor when it entered. Theists should be glad about it. Though of course, you'll only some theists who have a problem with it.

Well, it doesn't necessarily imply a beginning. But it's good evidence for one.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
1Devilsadvocate
Posts: 1,518
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3/30/2013 11:09:47 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/30/2013 10:42:45 PM, phantom wrote:
Ironically, it was atheists who most objected to the big bang when the theory first came out. The big bang implies a beginning of the universe; something atheists used to deny to refute it ever having been created. It was considered a great step in the theists favor when it entered. Theists should be glad about it. Though of course, you'll only some theists who have a problem with it.

I was gona say the same thing.

Also, anyone who has a problem with the big bang & the bible should read "Genisis & the big bang" By Gerald Schroeder PhD.
I cannot write in English, because of the treacherous spelling. When I am reading, I only hear it and am unable to remember what the written word looks like."
"Albert Einstein

http://www.twainquotes.com... , http://thewritecorner.wordpress.com... , http://www.onlinecollegecourses.com...
Hvaniratha
Posts: 37
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3/31/2013 2:45:59 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
" The existence of the creator, Ohrmazd, is manifested by the formation of the creation. "
-- Denkard, book 3

I think the " Big Bang " theory of cosmogony is sound with the creation of the World by Ohrmazd (YHWH).

I wrote about anti - theists and the " Big Bang " in my post " A Zoroastrian Cosmogonic Argument " which is similar to the Kalam Argument. I think that the " Big Bang " is further proof that the Universe has a beginning and is not forever like anti - theists sometimes say.

http://hvaniratha.wordpress.com...
wiploc
Posts: 1,485
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3/31/2013 10:53:26 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/30/2013 10:14:01 PM, Magic8000 wrote:
I see a lot of Christians attacking the Big Bang. I really don't understand why. The Big Bang says nothing about what created it, it just says how it was created. There's nothing contradictory to any type of faith or belief in the BB model.

The way I see it, this is how the Baptist church recruits from among Presbyterians. It's not that you can't believe in the big bang and be Christian. Most Christians do believe in the big bang. It's that younger, smaller, more radical churches have success at taking members from larger calmer churches by the use of biblical literalism.

Since it works, it keeps happening.
medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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3/31/2013 12:08:40 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/30/2013 10:14:01 PM, Magic8000 wrote:
I see a lot of Christians attacking the Big Bang. I really don't understand why. The Big Bang says nothing about what created it, it just says how it was created. There's nothing contradictory to any type of faith or belief in the BB model.

I don't really think it's so much the mechanism that is objected to, after all, the Bible doesn't really tell us exactly HOW God created the universe. That part doesn't create a necessary contradiction. It's more the philosophical baggage that many attach to it that creates the objections. Also, there are legitimate scientific problems with the model, raised by legitimate scientists.
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,286
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3/31/2013 12:13:27 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/31/2013 12:08:40 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 3/30/2013 10:14:01 PM, Magic8000 wrote:
I see a lot of Christians attacking the Big Bang. I really don't understand why. The Big Bang says nothing about what created it, it just says how it was created. There's nothing contradictory to any type of faith or belief in the BB model.

I don't really think it's so much the mechanism that is objected to, after all, the Bible doesn't really tell us exactly HOW God created the universe. That part doesn't create a necessary contradiction. It's more the philosophical baggage that many attach to it that creates the objections. Also, there are legitimate scientific problems with the model, raised by legitimate scientists.

I've always thought it weird that the big bang so often comes with atheistic baggage. The man who came up with the theory, Georges Lemaitre, was a Catholic priest. The idea that the universe came from a single point and is expanding, which is at the heart of big bang cosmology, doesn't scream 'atheism' to me. In fact, I think that it's the only model which lines up with deistic or theistic creation.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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3/31/2013 12:23:18 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/31/2013 10:53:26 AM, wiploc wrote:
At 3/30/2013 10:14:01 PM, Magic8000 wrote:
I see a lot of Christians attacking the Big Bang. I really don't understand why. The Big Bang says nothing about what created it, it just says how it was created. There's nothing contradictory to any type of faith or belief in the BB model.

The way I see it, this is how the Baptist church recruits from among Presbyterians. It's not that you can't believe in the big bang and be Christian. Most Christians do believe in the big bang. It's that younger, smaller, more radical churches have success at taking members from larger calmer churches by the use of biblical literalism.

Since it works, it keeps happening.

YEC and Biblical literalism is traditional Christianity, OEC is the new kid on the block. Every church believes they are preaching the correct message and attempts to win people to their way of thinking. That is not unique to Baptists.
muzebreak
Posts: 2,781
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3/31/2013 12:23:44 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/30/2013 10:42:45 PM, phantom wrote:
Ironically, it was atheists who most objected to the big bang when the theory first came out. The big bang implies a beginning of the universe; something atheists used to deny to refute it ever having been created. It was considered a great step in the theists favor when it entered. Theists should be glad about it. Though of course, you'll only some theists who have a problem with it.

Depend how you classify 'beginning'. Technically speaking, we still have no certainty as far as I know, about whether the singularity began, in any sense. Just that the change in the universe to its current state, does have a beginning.
"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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3/31/2013 12:28:32 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/31/2013 12:23:44 PM, muzebreak wrote:
At 3/30/2013 10:42:45 PM, phantom wrote:
Ironically, it was atheists who most objected to the big bang when the theory first came out. The big bang implies a beginning of the universe; something atheists used to deny to refute it ever having been created. It was considered a great step in the theists favor when it entered. Theists should be glad about it. Though of course, you'll only some theists who have a problem with it.

Depend how you classify 'beginning'. Technically speaking, we still have no certainty as far as I know, about whether the singularity began, in any sense. Just that the change in the universe to its current state, does have a beginning.

Yes. I realized my mistake afterwards, hence my second post.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,926
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3/31/2013 12:29:58 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/31/2013 12:23:18 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 3/31/2013 10:53:26 AM, wiploc wrote:
At 3/30/2013 10:14:01 PM, Magic8000 wrote:
I see a lot of Christians attacking the Big Bang. I really don't understand why. The Big Bang says nothing about what created it, it just says how it was created. There's nothing contradictory to any type of faith or belief in the BB model.

The way I see it, this is how the Baptist church recruits from among Presbyterians. It's not that you can't believe in the big bang and be Christian. Most Christians do believe in the big bang. It's that younger, smaller, more radical churches have success at taking members from larger calmer churches by the use of biblical literalism.

Since it works, it keeps happening.

YEC and Biblical literalism is traditional Christianity,

Prove it.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,286
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3/31/2013 12:31:25 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/31/2013 12:23:18 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 3/31/2013 10:53:26 AM, wiploc wrote:
At 3/30/2013 10:14:01 PM, Magic8000 wrote:
I see a lot of Christians attacking the Big Bang. I really don't understand why. The Big Bang says nothing about what created it, it just says how it was created. There's nothing contradictory to any type of faith or belief in the BB model.

The way I see it, this is how the Baptist church recruits from among Presbyterians. It's not that you can't believe in the big bang and be Christian. Most Christians do believe in the big bang. It's that younger, smaller, more radical churches have success at taking members from larger calmer churches by the use of biblical literalism.

Since it works, it keeps happening.

YEC and Biblical literalism is traditional Christianity, OEC is the new kid on the block. Every church believes they are preaching the correct message and attempts to win people to their way of thinking. That is not unique to Baptists.

Doesn't opposition to YEC and biblical literalism go back to St. Augustine?
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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3/31/2013 12:31:44 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/31/2013 12:13:27 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/31/2013 12:08:40 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 3/30/2013 10:14:01 PM, Magic8000 wrote:
I see a lot of Christians attacking the Big Bang. I really don't understand why. The Big Bang says nothing about what created it, it just says how it was created. There's nothing contradictory to any type of faith or belief in the BB model.

I don't really think it's so much the mechanism that is objected to, after all, the Bible doesn't really tell us exactly HOW God created the universe. That part doesn't create a necessary contradiction. It's more the philosophical baggage that many attach to it that creates the objections. Also, there are legitimate scientific problems with the model, raised by legitimate scientists.

I've always thought it weird that the big bang so often comes with atheistic baggage. The man who came up with the theory, Georges Lemaitre, was a Catholic priest. The idea that the universe came from a single point and is expanding, which is at the heart of big bang cosmology, doesn't scream 'atheism' to me. In fact, I think that it's the only model which lines up with deistic or theistic creation.

Exactly. I think part of the problem is that ideology gets involved and many people believe that every time we find a naturalistic explanation for something, that gives fuel to those who want to argue that we don't need God.
muzebreak
Posts: 2,781
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3/31/2013 12:32:35 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/31/2013 12:28:32 PM, phantom wrote:
At 3/31/2013 12:23:44 PM, muzebreak wrote:
At 3/30/2013 10:42:45 PM, phantom wrote:
Ironically, it was atheists who most objected to the big bang when the theory first came out. The big bang implies a beginning of the universe; something atheists used to deny to refute it ever having been created. It was considered a great step in the theists favor when it entered. Theists should be glad about it. Though of course, you'll only some theists who have a problem with it.

Depend how you classify 'beginning'. Technically speaking, we still have no certainty as far as I know, about whether the singularity began, in any sense. Just that the change in the universe to its current state, does have a beginning.

Yes. I realized my mistake afterwards, hence my second post.

Sorry, didn't see it.
"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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3/31/2013 12:34:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/31/2013 12:32:35 PM, muzebreak wrote:
At 3/31/2013 12:28:32 PM, phantom wrote:
At 3/31/2013 12:23:44 PM, muzebreak wrote:
At 3/30/2013 10:42:45 PM, phantom wrote:
Ironically, it was atheists who most objected to the big bang when the theory first came out. The big bang implies a beginning of the universe; something atheists used to deny to refute it ever having been created. It was considered a great step in the theists favor when it entered. Theists should be glad about it. Though of course, you'll only some theists who have a problem with it.

Depend how you classify 'beginning'. Technically speaking, we still have no certainty as far as I know, about whether the singularity began, in any sense. Just that the change in the universe to its current state, does have a beginning.

Yes. I realized my mistake afterwards, hence my second post.

Sorry, didn't see it.

No problem.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
muzebreak
Posts: 2,781
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3/31/2013 12:38:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/31/2013 12:34:41 PM, phantom wrote:
At 3/31/2013 12:32:35 PM, muzebreak wrote:
At 3/31/2013 12:28:32 PM, phantom wrote:
At 3/31/2013 12:23:44 PM, muzebreak wrote:
At 3/30/2013 10:42:45 PM, phantom wrote:
Ironically, it was atheists who most objected to the big bang when the theory first came out. The big bang implies a beginning of the universe; something atheists used to deny to refute it ever having been created. It was considered a great step in the theists favor when it entered. Theists should be glad about it. Though of course, you'll only some theists who have a problem with it.

Depend how you classify 'beginning'. Technically speaking, we still have no certainty as far as I know, about whether the singularity began, in any sense. Just that the change in the universe to its current state, does have a beginning.

Yes. I realized my mistake afterwards, hence my second post.

Sorry, didn't see it.

No problem.

(:
"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.
My-Self
Posts: 92
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3/31/2013 12:58:03 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/31/2013 12:31:25 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/31/2013 12:23:18 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 3/31/2013 10:53:26 AM, wiploc wrote:
At 3/30/2013 10:14:01 PM, Magic8000 wrote:
I see a lot of Christians attacking the Big Bang. I really don't understand why. The Big Bang says nothing about what created it, it just says how it was created. There's nothing contradictory to any type of faith or belief in the BB model.

The way I see it, this is how the Baptist church recruits from among Presbyterians. It's not that you can't believe in the big bang and be Christian. Most Christians do believe in the big bang. It's that younger, smaller, more radical churches have success at taking members from larger calmer churches by the use of biblical literalism.

Since it works, it keeps happening.

YEC and Biblical literalism is traditional Christianity, OEC is the new kid on the block. Every church believes they are preaching the correct message and attempts to win people to their way of thinking. That is not unique to Baptists.

Doesn't opposition to YEC and biblical literalism go back to Moses?
"Genesis could be compatible with anything. Theologians are great at mental gymnastics." ~ phantom
medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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3/31/2013 1:21:20 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/31/2013 12:29:58 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 3/31/2013 12:23:18 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 3/31/2013 10:53:26 AM, wiploc wrote:
At 3/30/2013 10:14:01 PM, Magic8000 wrote:
I see a lot of Christians attacking the Big Bang. I really don't understand why. The Big Bang says nothing about what created it, it just says how it was created. There's nothing contradictory to any type of faith or belief in the BB model.

The way I see it, this is how the Baptist church recruits from among Presbyterians. It's not that you can't believe in the big bang and be Christian. Most Christians do believe in the big bang. It's that younger, smaller, more radical churches have success at taking members from larger calmer churches by the use of biblical literalism.

Since it works, it keeps happening.

YEC and Biblical literalism is traditional Christianity,

Prove it.

If you believe in any kind of Biblical authority then Jesus' words about Moses' writings, in John 5, should be enough proof for you. If not then nothing I can say is going to change what you want to believe.
medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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3/31/2013 1:31:57 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/31/2013 12:31:25 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/31/2013 12:23:18 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 3/31/2013 10:53:26 AM, wiploc wrote:
At 3/30/2013 10:14:01 PM, Magic8000 wrote:
I see a lot of Christians attacking the Big Bang. I really don't understand why. The Big Bang says nothing about what created it, it just says how it was created. There's nothing contradictory to any type of faith or belief in the BB model.

The way I see it, this is how the Baptist church recruits from among Presbyterians. It's not that you can't believe in the big bang and be Christian. Most Christians do believe in the big bang. It's that younger, smaller, more radical churches have success at taking members from larger calmer churches by the use of biblical literalism.

Since it works, it keeps happening.

YEC and Biblical literalism is traditional Christianity, OEC is the new kid on the block. Every church believes they are preaching the correct message and attempts to win people to their way of thinking. That is not unique to Baptists.

Doesn't opposition to YEC and biblical literalism go back to St. Augustine?

From what I remember he wasn't against literalism but did believe that the six days could represent longer periods. That seems a rather contradictory position, if I'm recalling his position correctly.
medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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3/31/2013 1:36:00 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/31/2013 12:58:03 PM, My-Self wrote:
At 3/31/2013 12:31:25 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/31/2013 12:23:18 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 3/31/2013 10:53:26 AM, wiploc wrote:
At 3/30/2013 10:14:01 PM, Magic8000 wrote:
I see a lot of Christians attacking the Big Bang. I really don't understand why. The Big Bang says nothing about what created it, it just says how it was created. There's nothing contradictory to any type of faith or belief in the BB model.

The way I see it, this is how the Baptist church recruits from among Presbyterians. It's not that you can't believe in the big bang and be Christian. Most Christians do believe in the big bang. It's that younger, smaller, more radical churches have success at taking members from larger calmer churches by the use of biblical literalism.

Since it works, it keeps happening.

YEC and Biblical literalism is traditional Christianity, OEC is the new kid on the block. Every church believes they are preaching the correct message and attempts to win people to their way of thinking. That is not unique to Baptists.

Doesn't opposition to YEC and biblical literalism go back to Moses?

Yes there have always been those who oppose the Bible.
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,926
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3/31/2013 2:09:37 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/31/2013 1:21:20 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 3/31/2013 12:29:58 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 3/31/2013 12:23:18 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 3/31/2013 10:53:26 AM, wiploc wrote:
At 3/30/2013 10:14:01 PM, Magic8000 wrote:
I see a lot of Christians attacking the Big Bang. I really don't understand why. The Big Bang says nothing about what created it, it just says how it was created. There's nothing contradictory to any type of faith or belief in the BB model.

The way I see it, this is how the Baptist church recruits from among Presbyterians. It's not that you can't believe in the big bang and be Christian. Most Christians do believe in the big bang. It's that younger, smaller, more radical churches have success at taking members from larger calmer churches by the use of biblical literalism.

Since it works, it keeps happening.

YEC and Biblical literalism is traditional Christianity,

Prove it.

If you believe in any kind of Biblical authority then Jesus' words about Moses' writings, in John 5, should be enough proof for you. If not then nothing I can say is going to change what you want to believe.

Biggest non-sequitur ever.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,926
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3/31/2013 2:14:26 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/31/2013 1:36:00 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 3/31/2013 12:58:03 PM, My-Self wrote:
At 3/31/2013 12:31:25 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/31/2013 12:23:18 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 3/31/2013 10:53:26 AM, wiploc wrote:
At 3/30/2013 10:14:01 PM, Magic8000 wrote:
I see a lot of Christians attacking the Big Bang. I really don't understand why. The Big Bang says nothing about what created it, it just says how it was created. There's nothing contradictory to any type of faith or belief in the BB model.

The way I see it, this is how the Baptist church recruits from among Presbyterians. It's not that you can't believe in the big bang and be Christian. Most Christians do believe in the big bang. It's that younger, smaller, more radical churches have success at taking members from larger calmer churches by the use of biblical literalism.

Since it works, it keeps happening.

YEC and Biblical literalism is traditional Christianity, OEC is the new kid on the block. Every church believes they are preaching the correct message and attempts to win people to their way of thinking. That is not unique to Baptists.

Doesn't opposition to YEC and biblical literalism go back to Moses?

Yes there have always been those who oppose the Bible.

Lol. You're aware that ancient Christians didn't interpret the bible in any way, shape or form, similar to the biblical "literalism" found in certain Christian circles, right? This can even be seen in the bible very easily. Do you notice how when the NT writers quote from the OT prophets they AREN'T functioning through a literalistic interpretive scheme? Tons of ink have been spilled on this issue throughout the centuries.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
muzebreak
Posts: 2,781
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3/31/2013 2:32:32 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/31/2013 2:14:26 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 3/31/2013 1:36:00 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 3/31/2013 12:58:03 PM, My-Self wrote:
At 3/31/2013 12:31:25 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/31/2013 12:23:18 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 3/31/2013 10:53:26 AM, wiploc wrote:
At 3/30/2013 10:14:01 PM, Magic8000 wrote:
I see a lot of Christians attacking the Big Bang. I really don't understand why. The Big Bang says nothing about what created it, it just says how it was created. There's nothing contradictory to any type of faith or belief in the BB model.

The way I see it, this is how the Baptist church recruits from among Presbyterians. It's not that you can't believe in the big bang and be Christian. Most Christians do believe in the big bang. It's that younger, smaller, more radical churches have success at taking members from larger calmer churches by the use of biblical literalism.

Since it works, it keeps happening.

YEC and Biblical literalism is traditional Christianity, OEC is the new kid on the block. Every church believes they are preaching the correct message and attempts to win people to their way of thinking. That is not unique to Baptists.

Doesn't opposition to YEC and biblical literalism go back to Moses?

Yes there have always been those who oppose the Bible.

Lol. You're aware that ancient Christians didn't interpret the bible in any way, shape or form, similar to the biblical "literalism" found in certain Christian circles, right? This can even be seen in the bible very easily. Do you notice how when the NT writers quote from the OT prophets they AREN'T functioning through a literalistic interpretive scheme? Tons of ink have been spilled on this issue throughout the centuries.

How do you not interpret written text? Is that even possible?
"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,926
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3/31/2013 2:44:16 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/31/2013 2:32:32 PM, muzebreak wrote:
At 3/31/2013 2:14:26 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 3/31/2013 1:36:00 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 3/31/2013 12:58:03 PM, My-Self wrote:
At 3/31/2013 12:31:25 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/31/2013 12:23:18 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 3/31/2013 10:53:26 AM, wiploc wrote:
At 3/30/2013 10:14:01 PM, Magic8000 wrote:
I see a lot of Christians attacking the Big Bang. I really don't understand why. The Big Bang says nothing about what created it, it just says how it was created. There's nothing contradictory to any type of faith or belief in the BB model.

The way I see it, this is how the Baptist church recruits from among Presbyterians. It's not that you can't believe in the big bang and be Christian. Most Christians do believe in the big bang. It's that younger, smaller, more radical churches have success at taking members from larger calmer churches by the use of biblical literalism.

Since it works, it keeps happening.

YEC and Biblical literalism is traditional Christianity, OEC is the new kid on the block. Every church believes they are preaching the correct message and attempts to win people to their way of thinking. That is not unique to Baptists.

Doesn't opposition to YEC and biblical literalism go back to Moses?

Yes there have always been those who oppose the Bible.

Lol. You're aware that ancient Christians didn't interpret the bible in any way, shape or form, similar to the biblical "literalism" found in certain Christian circles, right? This can even be seen in the bible very easily. Do you notice how when the NT writers quote from the OT prophets they AREN'T functioning through a literalistic interpretive scheme? Tons of ink have been spilled on this issue throughout the centuries.

How do you not interpret written text? Is that even possible?

No, it's not. I was just saying that they weren't functioning through the same interpretive scheme as some modern day people want to say they are.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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3/31/2013 2:49:25 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/31/2013 2:09:37 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 3/31/2013 1:21:20 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 3/31/2013 12:29:58 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 3/31/2013 12:23:18 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 3/31/2013 10:53:26 AM, wiploc wrote:
At 3/30/2013 10:14:01 PM, Magic8000 wrote:
I see a lot of Christians attacking the Big Bang. I really don't understand why. The Big Bang says nothing about what created it, it just says how it was created. There's nothing contradictory to any type of faith or belief in the BB model.

The way I see it, this is how the Baptist church recruits from among Presbyterians. It's not that you can't believe in the big bang and be Christian. Most Christians do believe in the big bang. It's that younger, smaller, more radical churches have success at taking members from larger calmer churches by the use of biblical literalism.

Since it works, it keeps happening.

YEC and Biblical literalism is traditional Christianity,

Prove it.

If you believe in any kind of Biblical authority then Jesus' words about Moses' writings, in John 5, should be enough proof for you. If not then nothing I can say is going to change what you want to believe.

Biggest non-sequitur ever.

Not at all. If you don't give authority when Jesus says that Moses' writings are true then what good would it do for me to try and convince you??
Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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3/31/2013 2:56:25 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/31/2013 2:49:25 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 3/31/2013 2:09:37 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 3/31/2013 1:21:20 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 3/31/2013 12:29:58 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 3/31/2013 12:23:18 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 3/31/2013 10:53:26 AM, wiploc wrote:
At 3/30/2013 10:14:01 PM, Magic8000 wrote:
I see a lot of Christians attacking the Big Bang. I really don't understand why. The Big Bang says nothing about what created it, it just says how it was created. There's nothing contradictory to any type of faith or belief in the BB model.

The way I see it, this is how the Baptist church recruits from among Presbyterians. It's not that you can't believe in the big bang and be Christian. Most Christians do believe in the big bang. It's that younger, smaller, more radical churches have success at taking members from larger calmer churches by the use of biblical literalism.

Since it works, it keeps happening.

YEC and Biblical literalism is traditional Christianity,

Prove it.

If you believe in any kind of Biblical authority then Jesus' words about Moses' writings, in John 5, should be enough proof for you. If not then nothing I can say is going to change what you want to believe.

Biggest non-sequitur ever.

Not at all. If you don't give authority when Jesus says that Moses' writings are true then what good would it do for me to try and convince you??

For the nth time, you can't claim a literal reading of Genesis 1 and simultaneously claim Genesis 1 refers to a spherical earth surrounded by a void.

It's identical to claiming Genesis 1 refers to the Big Bang and millions of years of Evolution by using "yom" to mean "age" and not "day."
Radar
Posts: 424
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3/31/2013 3:00:37 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/30/2013 10:14:01 PM, Magic8000 wrote:
I see a lot of Christians attacking the Big Bang. I really don't understand why. The Big Bang says nothing about what created it, it just says how it was created. There's nothing contradictory to any type of faith or belief in the BB model.

It was a Christian, a priest, who first came up with the idea. Know how the BB got it's name? From a derisive remark made by one of his critics: "You actually want us to believe it all began with a big bang?!" or words to that effect.
muzebreak
Posts: 2,781
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3/31/2013 3:03:43 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/31/2013 2:44:16 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 3/31/2013 2:32:32 PM, muzebreak wrote:
At 3/31/2013 2:14:26 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 3/31/2013 1:36:00 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 3/31/2013 12:58:03 PM, My-Self wrote:
At 3/31/2013 12:31:25 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/31/2013 12:23:18 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 3/31/2013 10:53:26 AM, wiploc wrote:
At 3/30/2013 10:14:01 PM, Magic8000 wrote:
I see a lot of Christians attacking the Big Bang. I really don't understand why. The Big Bang says nothing about what created it, it just says how it was created. There's nothing contradictory to any type of faith or belief in the BB model.

The way I see it, this is how the Baptist church recruits from among Presbyterians. It's not that you can't believe in the big bang and be Christian. Most Christians do believe in the big bang. It's that younger, smaller, more radical churches have success at taking members from larger calmer churches by the use of biblical literalism.

Since it works, it keeps happening.

YEC and Biblical literalism is traditional Christianity, OEC is the new kid on the block. Every church believes they are preaching the correct message and attempts to win people to their way of thinking. That is not unique to Baptists.

Doesn't opposition to YEC and biblical literalism go back to Moses?

Yes there have always been those who oppose the Bible.

Lol. You're aware that ancient Christians didn't interpret the bible in any way, shape or form, similar to the biblical "literalism" found in certain Christian circles, right? This can even be seen in the bible very easily. Do you notice how when the NT writers quote from the OT prophets they AREN'T functioning through a literalistic interpretive scheme? Tons of ink have been spilled on this issue throughout the centuries.

How do you not interpret written text? Is that even possible?

No, it's not. I was just saying that they weren't functioning through the same interpretive scheme as some modern day people want to say they are.

Ah, I see that now. The comma through me off.
"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.