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Do you agree with Infant Baptism?

Sola.Gratia
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4/1/2013 2:07:32 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Christians, this topic is for you. If you say yes, explain why and if you say no explain why.

I'll start. I think that infant baptism is wrong because salvation is not based on baptism. Secondly, if parents wanna commit their child to God, then it is perfectly fine for the babe to be dedicated not baptized. Infant's don't have the understanding of what baptism is anyways. I have not found any Scriptures that say it is okay to baptize an infant child either. There are verses in the Bible that talk about being Baptized, but only to demonstrate one's proclamation of being saved. An infant cannot do this..

I'm open for any thoughts, opinions even Scripture to maybe change my mind. I am not looking for a debate, but if it means to get the point across then so be it.
"What is sin? It is the glory of God not honored. Holiness of God not reverenced. Greatness of God not admired. Power of God not praised. Truth of God not sought. Wisdom of God not esteemed. Beauty of God not treasured. Goodness of God not savored. Faithfulness of God not trusted. Commandments of God not obeyed. Justice of God not respected. Wrath of God not feared. Grace of God not cherished. Presence of God not prized. Person of God not loved. That is sin." ~John Piper
Pennington
Posts: 1,286
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4/1/2013 2:14:42 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/1/2013 2:07:32 PM, Sola.Gratia wrote:
Christians, this topic is for you. If you say yes, explain why and if you say no explain why.

I'll start. I think that infant baptism is wrong because salvation is not based on baptism. Secondly, if parents wanna commit their child to God, then it is perfectly fine for the babe to be dedicated not baptized. Infant's don't have the understanding of what baptism is anyways. I have not found any Scriptures that say it is okay to baptize an infant child either. There are verses in the Bible that talk about being Baptized, but only to demonstrate one's proclamation of being saved. An infant cannot do this..

I'm open for any thoughts, opinions even Scripture to maybe change my mind. I am not looking for a debate, but if it means to get the point across then so be it.

I agree with your opinion.
Hebrews 6:2
Of the doctrine of baptisms,
There is a doctrine of baptism.
Ephesians 4:5
One Lord, one faith, one baptism
One baptism, so if child is not saved then they shouldnt be baptized.
Acts 19:4
Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
Babies dont repent.
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Buddamoose
Posts: 19,448
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4/1/2013 2:17:57 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
As the worlds first, only, and foremost leading expert on Liberal Baptism, I have always held the opinion that Infant Baptisms arent something that should be practiced. I agree with you Gratia, that Baptisms dont save people, actions, choices, and beliefs do.

It should be a persons choice on whether or not to be baptized, and infant baptisms take away that choice. It turns what should be a memorable occassion in a persons life, into something they dont even remember, and recounted through other people. Which kinda cheapens it and makes it largely pointless.
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
Sola.Gratia
Posts: 278
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4/1/2013 2:26:08 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/1/2013 2:14:42 PM, Pennington wrote:

I agree with your opinion.
Hebrews 6:2
Of the doctrine of baptisms,
There is a doctrine of baptism.
Ephesians 4:5
One Lord, one faith, one baptism
One baptism, so if child is not saved then they shouldnt be baptized.
Acts 19:4
Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
Babies dont repent.
"What is sin? It is the glory of God not honored. Holiness of God not reverenced. Greatness of God not admired. Power of God not praised. Truth of God not sought. Wisdom of God not esteemed. Beauty of God not treasured. Goodness of God not savored. Faithfulness of God not trusted. Commandments of God not obeyed. Justice of God not respected. Wrath of God not feared. Grace of God not cherished. Presence of God not prized. Person of God not loved. That is sin." ~John Piper
Sola.Gratia
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4/1/2013 2:27:57 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/1/2013 2:17:57 PM, Buddamoose wrote:
As the worlds first, only, and foremost leading expert on Liberal Baptism, I have always held the opinion that Infant Baptisms arent something that should be practiced. I agree with you Gratia, that Baptisms dont save people, actions, choices, and beliefs do.

It should be a persons choice on whether or not to be baptized, and infant baptisms take away that choice. It turns what should be a memorable occassion in a persons life, into something they dont even remember, and recounted through other people. Which kinda cheapens it and makes it largely pointless.

Well, I see what your saying and understand it.. But just to clarify things, you mean Jesus saves right? No good works or things saves us right? We're on the same page with that I hope..
But yea, I hear what your saying though...
"What is sin? It is the glory of God not honored. Holiness of God not reverenced. Greatness of God not admired. Power of God not praised. Truth of God not sought. Wisdom of God not esteemed. Beauty of God not treasured. Goodness of God not savored. Faithfulness of God not trusted. Commandments of God not obeyed. Justice of God not respected. Wrath of God not feared. Grace of God not cherished. Presence of God not prized. Person of God not loved. That is sin." ~John Piper
Buddamoose
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4/1/2013 2:32:04 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/1/2013 2:27:57 PM, Sola.Gratia wrote:
At 4/1/2013 2:17:57 PM, Buddamoose wrote:
As the worlds first, only, and foremost leading expert on Liberal Baptism, I have always held the opinion that Infant Baptisms arent something that should be practiced. I agree with you Gratia, that Baptisms dont save people, actions, choices, and beliefs do.

It should be a persons choice on whether or not to be baptized, and infant baptisms take away that choice. It turns what should be a memorable occassion in a persons life, into something they dont even remember, and recounted through other people. Which kinda cheapens it and makes it largely pointless.

Well, I see what your saying and understand it.. But just to clarify things, you mean Jesus saves right?

A belief in Jesus as the son of god, and the actions of repenting for ones sins, and improving oneself so as to not commit those sins again. So actions, choices, and beliefs...

No good works or things saves us right?

Good works help for sure, like charity, etc. but material things? Nahhhh

We're on the same page with that I hope..

But yea, I hear what your saying though...
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
Sola.Gratia
Posts: 278
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4/1/2013 2:38:16 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/1/2013 2:32:04 PM, Buddamoose wrote:
At 4/1/2013 2:27:57 PM, Sola.Gratia wrote:
At 4/1/2013 2:17:57 PM, Buddamoose wrote:
As the worlds first, only, and foremost leading expert on Liberal Baptism, I have always held the opinion that Infant Baptisms arent something that should be practiced. I agree with you Gratia, that Baptisms dont save people, actions, choices, and beliefs do.

It should be a persons choice on whether or not to be baptized, and infant baptisms take away that choice. It turns what should be a memorable occassion in a persons life, into something they dont even remember, and recounted through other people. Which kinda cheapens it and makes it largely pointless.

Well, I see what your saying and understand it.. But just to clarify things, you mean Jesus saves right?

A belief in Jesus as the son of god, and the actions of repenting for ones sins, and improving oneself so as to not commit those sins again. So actions, choices, and beliefs...

No good works or things saves us right?

Good works help for sure, like charity, etc. but material things? Nahhhh

We're on the same page with that I hope..

But yea, I hear what your saying though...

Okay.. I see..
"What is sin? It is the glory of God not honored. Holiness of God not reverenced. Greatness of God not admired. Power of God not praised. Truth of God not sought. Wisdom of God not esteemed. Beauty of God not treasured. Goodness of God not savored. Faithfulness of God not trusted. Commandments of God not obeyed. Justice of God not respected. Wrath of God not feared. Grace of God not cherished. Presence of God not prized. Person of God not loved. That is sin." ~John Piper
Dogknox
Posts: 5,043
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4/1/2013 3:00:09 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/1/2013 2:07:32 PM, Sola.Gratia wrote:
Christians, this topic is for you. If you say yes, explain why and if you say no explain why.

I'll start. I think that infant baptism is wrong because salvation is not based on baptism. Secondly, if parents wanna commit their child to God, then it is perfectly fine for the babe to be dedicated not baptized. Infant's don't have the understanding of what baptism is anyways. I have not found any Scriptures that say it is okay to baptize an infant child either. There are verses in the Bible that talk about being Baptized, but only to demonstrate one's proclamation of being saved. An infant cannot do this..

I'm open for any thoughts, opinions even Scripture to maybe change my mind. I am not looking for a debate, but if it means to get the point across then so be it.

Your words are NOT scriptural...>> salvation is not based on baptism.

FACT: Baptism ADDS people to the Body of Jesus!
The first day of Pentecost Peter ADDED 3000 people to the Body of Jesus by Baptism!

Jesus commissioned his CHURCH to; "Make disciples of all nations by BAPTIZING!"
"Make DISCIPLES BAPTIZING"; With all the AUTHORITY of God.. In His NAME!

Sola.Gratia Disciples are Jesus' BROTHERS! THUS...
Sola.Gratia thus Baptism makes Jesus' BROTHERS!

Matthew 12... "Pointing to his DISCIPLES Jesus said.. here are my BROTHERS!"

All peoples ADDED to Jesus' BODY are God' CHILDREN! IF..
Sola.Gratia if you are NOT ADDED to Jesus' RESURRECTED Body then God is NOT your father!
IF you are NOT "IMMERSED" into the body of Jesus then God is NOT your father!
IF you are NOT "IMMERSED" into the body of the RESURRECTED Jesus then you will NOT RISE!!

You must REJECT GOD' WORDS as LIES to say; "Baptism is only symbolic!!"

1 Peter 3:21
and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also"not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ

Sola.Gratia Baptism SAVES you.. NO Christians have ever said it is symbolic!! .. Baptism that now saves you!!!
It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ ..Baptism that now saves you!

The Letter of Barnabas
Barnabas is CHRISTIAN!!
He said..
"Regarding [baptism], we have the evidence of Scripture that Israel would refuse to accept the washing which confers the remission of sins and would set up a substitution of their own instead [Ps. 1:3"6]. Observe there how he describes both the water and the cross in the same figure. His meaning is, "Blessed are those who go down into the water with their hopes set on the cross." Here he is saying that after we have stepped down into the water, burdened with sin and defilement, we come up out of it bearing fruit, with reverence in our hearts and the hope of Jesus in our souls" (Letter of Barnabas 11:1"10 [A.D. 74]).

Hermas is CHRISTIAN!!
Hermas also tells you "Baptism removes sins!"
He said..
""I have heard, sir," said I, "from some teacher, that there is no other repentance except that which took place when we went down into the water and obtained the remission of our former sins." He said to me, "You have heard rightly, for so it is"" (The Shepherd 4:3:1"2 [A.D. 80]).

Sola.Gratia Justin Martyr tells you HE WAS SAVED BY BAPTISM!
He said..
"Whoever are convinced and believe that what they are taught and told by us is the truth, and professes to be able to live accordingly, are instructed to pray and to beseech God in fasting for the remission of their former sins, while we pray and fast with them. Then they are led by us to a place where there is water, and they are reborn in the same kind of rebirth in which we ourselves were reborn: "In the name of God, the Lord and Father of all, and of our Savior Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit," they receive the washing of water. For Christ said, "Unless you be reborn, you shall not enter the kingdom of heaven"" (First Apology 61:14"17 [A.D. 151]).

Justin Martyr is CHRISTIAN!!
Christians have always believed the scriptures!
Christians have ALWAYS TAUGHT Baptism saves!
Baptism that now saves you!

Dogknox
Dogknox
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4/1/2013 3:24:49 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/1/2013 2:17:57 PM, Buddamoose wrote:
As the worlds first, only, and foremost leading expert on Liberal Baptism, I have always held the opinion that Infant Baptisms arent something that should be practiced. I agree with you Gratia, that Baptisms dont save people, actions, choices, and beliefs do.

It should be a persons choice on whether or not to be baptized, and infant baptisms take away that choice. It turns what should be a memorable occassion in a persons life, into something they dont even remember, and recounted through other people. Which kinda cheapens it and makes it largely pointless.
Buddamoose your words.. It should be a persons choice on whether or not to be baptized, and infant baptisms take away that choice.

WHAT???
Do babies CHOOSE to be born????

Do you say.. The BABY should DECIDE to be born or NOT and the Parents take this CHOICE from them!!???!!
THINK..... All peoples are born Children of Adam!
All must be Re-Formed into Children of God!

If a Baby dies early then the baby dies Adams CHILD!!!

Buddamoose You think babies are born perfect and they do not need saving!!! Is this it???
To think Babies are BORN God' Children then they turn into Adams children; This is WHACK-Oooooh!!

The Jews had to CIRCUMCISE their children on the eighth day! UNTIL...
Buddamoose until they were Circumcised they were NOT part of the tribe!
God got mad at Moses for NOT circumcising his own BABY, God was going to KILL IT right then and there!!!
God INSISTED on CIRCUMCISION, no choice it was a MUST to be saved!

Baptism is the New Testament Circumcision!

Scriptures speaks of Baptism as the NEW Circumcision!!
Colossians 2:11
In him you were also circumcised with a circumcision not performed by human hands. Your whole self ruled by the flesh was put off when you were circumcised by Christ,
12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead.


Buddamoose Scriptures are clear: "Whole Households were Baptized!"
WHOLE means>>> not a selected few!!
WHOLE must mean Babies and small Children, or the "WHOLE" would NOT have been used!!! DUH !
NO PLACE...
Buddamoose no place can you read in the scriptures.."Whole Households were baptized EXCEPT the Babies!"

Baptism saves... Thus is MUST save the CHILDREN/Babies also!

Dogknox
medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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4/1/2013 4:43:20 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/1/2013 2:07:32 PM, Sola.Gratia wrote:
Christians, this topic is for you. If you say yes, explain why and if you say no explain why.

I'll start. I think that infant baptism is wrong because salvation is not based on baptism. Secondly, if parents wanna commit their child to God, then it is perfectly fine for the babe to be dedicated not baptized. Infant's don't have the understanding of what baptism is anyways. I have not found any Scriptures that say it is okay to baptize an infant child either. There are verses in the Bible that talk about being Baptized, but only to demonstrate one's proclamation of being saved. An infant cannot do this..

I'm open for any thoughts, opinions even Scripture to maybe change my mind. I am not looking for a debate, but if it means to get the point across then so be it.

I agree with your position on this. Any kind of religious declaration on a child is non-binding so is basically pointless.
Dogknox
Posts: 5,043
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4/1/2013 5:07:08 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/1/2013 3:30:14 PM, Pennington wrote:
Does infant baptism, save the infant?

Baptism ADDS people to the Body of Jesus!
The Bride re-forms the child of Adam into the child of God by the waters of Baptism! All woman FORMS the baby!
Pennington Just in case you do not know.. "Only Woman have a womb!"

Just in case you do not know it takes Two, Two, Two parents not only One to form a child!
The Bride re-FORMS Adams Child into God' child!
The Groom sends his GIFT.. The Holy Spirit!
Two Parents form God' children!
Even Jesus had two parents!

38 Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off"for all whom the Lord our God will call."

Verse 38 Clearly baptism removes sins!
Verse 38 Clearly the Baptized receive the GIFT from God!
The Babies do NOT need to repent.. they did not do any wrong!!
Verse 39 Baptism is for CHILDREN.

Peter did the Baptizing and God sends his GIFT of LIFE (The Holy Spirit)

SO
So to you question... Does infant baptism, save the infant?
Pennington YES.. all baptized Infants that die go to heaven, because they are God' Children!
Do UN BAPTIZED INfants go to heaven..? YES.. Paradise is a Garden in heaven, Adams Children go to Paradise!

Pennington The Thief was NOT Baptized by the Bride!
The Thief died before Pentecost!
The Thief ended up in a Garden!
Luke 23:43
Jesus answered him, "Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise."

Revelation 2:7
Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.

Pennington LOOK John the Baptist died before Pentecost.. he also ended up in the Garden!!
Matthew 11:11
Truly I tell you, among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist; yet whoever is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

John was Born of Woman.. He was NOT reformed by the Bride!
John died before Pentecost!

Pennington Baptism saves all men who REPENT!!!
You can't be baptized if you do NOT REPENT of your sins!
You can't fool God... He can see in each man's heart he can see if they are truly repenting of their sins!

Repent and be Baptized for the forgiveness of your sins and you will receive the GIFT of the Holy Spirit!

Pennington All men without sins are saved.. Baptism washes away the sins!

Dogknox
Pennington
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4/1/2013 5:25:27 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/1/2013 5:07:08 PM, Dogknox wrote:

Most of that was just useless to the conversation. But I did gather that you think infants who are incapable of understanding salvation are in fact saved by baptism. There are several problems with this stance. One being that everyone must make the decision to accept Jesus Christ. If you baptise a infant it has no decision in the matter. Another problem is the suggesting that every infant you baptise will go to heaven and accept Christianity. Another issue and debate is that people most lose salvation according to this doctrine. Obviously the Bible never says baptise infants so the question is were did this tradition come from and is it Christian? Did the apostles baptise infants?

Before baptism, one must know God (2 Thessalonians 1:8). If one is baptized as an infant, he is baptized without believing that Christ is the Son of God, without repentance, and without confession. There is no New Testament record of the administration of baptism without belief, repentance, and confession (Mark 16:15-16; Acts 17:30; Romans 10:10). Baptism is for forgiveness of sins (Acts 2:38). Infants have no sins, so they do not need to have sins remitted. Also, each account of baptism in the New Testament shows that people who were baptized had the option of refusing baptism, but infants do not have that capability.
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Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
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4/1/2013 5:26:31 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Yes, once the baby is baptized, it loses original sin. Then you can kill it, and it automatically goes to Heaven.
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Sola.Gratia
Posts: 278
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4/1/2013 5:36:21 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/1/2013 5:26:31 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
Yes, once the baby is baptized, it loses original sin. Then you can kill it, and it automatically goes to Heaven.

WOW!!! You really think that an infant baptized will go to Heaven just because it was baptized? Baptism doesn't save, Jesus does. Baptism is a sign of proclaiming faith In God. Where do you learn your logical view from? I'm really curious.
"What is sin? It is the glory of God not honored. Holiness of God not reverenced. Greatness of God not admired. Power of God not praised. Truth of God not sought. Wisdom of God not esteemed. Beauty of God not treasured. Goodness of God not savored. Faithfulness of God not trusted. Commandments of God not obeyed. Justice of God not respected. Wrath of God not feared. Grace of God not cherished. Presence of God not prized. Person of God not loved. That is sin." ~John Piper
Sola.Gratia
Posts: 278
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4/1/2013 5:42:49 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/1/2013 3:24:49 PM, Dogknox wrote:
At 4/1/2013 2:17:57 PM, Buddamoose wrote:
As the worlds first, only, and foremost leading expert on Liberal Baptism, I have always held the opinion that Infant Baptisms arent something that should be practiced. I agree with you Gratia, that Baptisms dont save people, actions, choices, and beliefs do.

It should be a persons choice on whether or not to be baptized, and infant baptisms take away that choice. It turns what should be a memorable occassion in a persons life, into something they dont even remember, and recounted through other people. Which kinda cheapens it and makes it largely pointless.
Buddamoose your words.. It should be a persons choice on whether or not to be baptized, and infant baptisms take away that choice.

WHAT???
Do babies CHOOSE to be born????

Do you say.. The BABY should DECIDE to be born or NOT and the Parents take this CHOICE from them!!???!!
THINK..... All peoples are born Children of Adam!
All must be Re-Formed into Children of God!

If a Baby dies early then the baby dies Adams CHILD!!!

Buddamoose You think babies are born perfect and they do not need saving!!! Is this it???
To think Babies are BORN God' Children then they turn into Adams children; This is WHACK-Oooooh!!

The Jews had to CIRCUMCISE their children on the eighth day! UNTIL...
Buddamoose until they were Circumcised they were NOT part of the tribe!
God got mad at Moses for NOT circumcising his own BABY, God was going to KILL IT right then and there!!!
God INSISTED on CIRCUMCISION, no choice it was a MUST to be saved!

Baptism is the New Testament Circumcision!

Scriptures speaks of Baptism as the NEW Circumcision!!
Colossians 2:11
In him you were also circumcised with a circumcision not performed by human hands. Your whole self ruled by the flesh was put off when you were circumcised by Christ,
12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead.


Buddamoose Scriptures are clear: "Whole Households were Baptized!"
WHOLE means>>> not a selected few!!
WHOLE must mean Babies and small Children, or the "WHOLE" would NOT have been used!!! DUH !
NO PLACE...
Buddamoose no place can you read in the scriptures.."Whole Households were baptized EXCEPT the Babies!"

Baptism saves... Thus is MUST save the CHILDREN/Babies also!

Dogknox

Mr. DogKnox, Buddamoose wasn't saying that its the infants fault for being born or that they choose to be born.. Read carefully before jumping to conclusion please..

Funny that you mention about a baby being Reformed yet you do not agree with Protestant views.. How contradicting.. lol.. Do you know what it means to be reformed?

I believe that if an infant was to die that yes they'd automatically ascend to Heaven because they haven't learned right from wrong yet. So to say that they'll perish in hell is like saying that they know better when they don't.. That's harsh that you would think that about babies..

Why are yu talking about circumcision when we we're talking about infant baptism? Please stay on topic...
"What is sin? It is the glory of God not honored. Holiness of God not reverenced. Greatness of God not admired. Power of God not praised. Truth of God not sought. Wisdom of God not esteemed. Beauty of God not treasured. Goodness of God not savored. Faithfulness of God not trusted. Commandments of God not obeyed. Justice of God not respected. Wrath of God not feared. Grace of God not cherished. Presence of God not prized. Person of God not loved. That is sin." ~John Piper
matt.mcguire88
Posts: 1,137
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4/1/2013 5:43:53 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/1/2013 5:36:21 PM, Sola.Gratia wrote:
At 4/1/2013 5:26:31 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
Yes, once the baby is baptized, it loses original sin. Then you can kill it, and it automatically goes to Heaven.

WOW!!! You really think that an infant baptized will go to Heaven just because it was baptized? Baptism doesn't save, Jesus does. Baptism is a sign of proclaiming faith In God. Where do you learn your logical view from? I'm really curious.

I'm sensing a lil sarcasm from Wallstreetatheist Sola.
Sola.Gratia
Posts: 278
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4/1/2013 5:53:20 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/1/2013 3:00:09 PM, Dogknox wrote:
At 4/1/2013 2:07:32 PM, Sola.Gratia wrote:
Christians, this topic is for you. If you say yes, explain why and if you say no explain why.

I'll start. I think that infant baptism is wrong because salvation is not based on baptism. Secondly, if parents wanna commit their child to God, then it is perfectly fine for the babe to be dedicated not baptized. Infant's don't have the understanding of what baptism is anyways. I have not found any Scriptures that say it is okay to baptize an infant child either. There are verses in the Bible that talk about being Baptized, but only to demonstrate one's proclamation of being saved. An infant cannot do this..

I'm open for any thoughts, opinions even Scripture to maybe change my mind. I am not looking for a debate, but if it means to get the point across then so be it.

Your words are NOT scriptural...>> salvation is not based on baptism.

FACT: Baptism ADDS people to the Body of Jesus!
The first day of Pentecost Peter ADDED 3000 people to the Body of Jesus by Baptism!

Jesus commissioned his CHURCH to; "Make disciples of all nations by BAPTIZING!"
"Make DISCIPLES BAPTIZING"; With all the AUTHORITY of God.. In His NAME!

Sola.Gratia Disciples are Jesus' BROTHERS! THUS...
Sola.Gratia thus Baptism makes Jesus' BROTHERS!

Matthew 12... "Pointing to his DISCIPLES Jesus said.. here are my BROTHERS!"

All peoples ADDED to Jesus' BODY are God' CHILDREN! IF..
Sola.Gratia if you are NOT ADDED to Jesus' RESURRECTED Body then God is NOT your father!
IF you are NOT "IMMERSED" into the body of Jesus then God is NOT your father!
IF you are NOT "IMMERSED" into the body of the RESURRECTED Jesus then you will NOT RISE!!

You must REJECT GOD' WORDS as LIES to say; "Baptism is only symbolic!!"

1 Peter 3:21
and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also"not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ

Sola.Gratia Baptism SAVES you.. NO Christians have ever said it is symbolic!! .. Baptism that now saves you!!!
It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ ..Baptism that now saves you!

The Letter of Barnabas
Barnabas is CHRISTIAN!!
He said..
"Regarding [baptism], we have the evidence of Scripture that Israel would refuse to accept the washing which confers the remission of sins and would set up a substitution of their own instead [Ps. 1:3"6]. Observe there how he describes both the water and the cross in the same figure. His meaning is, "Blessed are those who go down into the water with their hopes set on the cross." Here he is saying that after we have stepped down into the water, burdened with sin and defilement, we come up out of it bearing fruit, with reverence in our hearts and the hope of Jesus in our souls" (Letter of Barnabas 11:1"10 [A.D. 74]).

Hermas is CHRISTIAN!!
Hermas also tells you "Baptism removes sins!"
He said..
""I have heard, sir," said I, "from some teacher, that there is no other repentance except that which took place when we went down into the water and obtained the remission of our former sins." He said to me, "You have heard rightly, for so it is"" (The Shepherd 4:3:1"2 [A.D. 80]).

Sola.Gratia Justin Martyr tells you HE WAS SAVED BY BAPTISM!
He said..
"Whoever are convinced and believe that what they are taught and told by us is the truth, and professes to be able to live accordingly, are instructed to pray and to beseech God in fasting for the remission of their former sins, while we pray and fast with them. Then they are led by us to a place where there is water, and they are reborn in the same kind of rebirth in which we ourselves were reborn: "In the name of God, the Lord and Father of all, and of our Savior Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit," they receive the washing of water. For Christ said, "Unless you be reborn, you shall not enter the kingdom of heaven"" (First Apology 61:14"17 [A.D. 151]).

Justin Martyr is CHRISTIAN!!
Christians have always believed the scriptures!
Christians have ALWAYS TAUGHT Baptism saves!
Baptism that now saves you!

Dogknox

My words are not Scriptural...? Okay... yet the Bible says that its only trough faith in Christ that we are saved.. Baptism is a sign of someone's proclamation of a saved heart.. its not about working our way to heaven sir.. Baptism adds proof of salvation not receiving salvation.. Babies cannot proclamation of being saved because they DO NOT understand the things of God.. They will not be penalized for for not being baptized nor be penalized for not confessing Jesus as Lord.. They have nothing to worry about..

Is the letter of Barnabas in the original text Hebrew of Scripture? Is Hermas in the original Hebrew text of Scripture as well? And what about Justin Martyr?

DO you think that its okay to dedicate an infant instead of baptizing them so that the parents make a commitment to God by training their child in the ways of the Lord?
"What is sin? It is the glory of God not honored. Holiness of God not reverenced. Greatness of God not admired. Power of God not praised. Truth of God not sought. Wisdom of God not esteemed. Beauty of God not treasured. Goodness of God not savored. Faithfulness of God not trusted. Commandments of God not obeyed. Justice of God not respected. Wrath of God not feared. Grace of God not cherished. Presence of God not prized. Person of God not loved. That is sin." ~John Piper
Sola.Gratia
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4/1/2013 5:54:42 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/1/2013 5:43:53 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 4/1/2013 5:36:21 PM, Sola.Gratia wrote:
At 4/1/2013 5:26:31 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
Yes, once the baby is baptized, it loses original sin. Then you can kill it, and it automatically goes to Heaven.

WOW!!! You really think that an infant baptized will go to Heaven just because it was baptized? Baptism doesn't save, Jesus does. Baptism is a sign of proclaiming faith In God. Where do you learn your logical view from? I'm really curious.

I'm sensing a lil sarcasm from Wallstreetatheist Sola.

I know it... But, I still hold my questions up to Wallstreetathesist...
"What is sin? It is the glory of God not honored. Holiness of God not reverenced. Greatness of God not admired. Power of God not praised. Truth of God not sought. Wisdom of God not esteemed. Beauty of God not treasured. Goodness of God not savored. Faithfulness of God not trusted. Commandments of God not obeyed. Justice of God not respected. Wrath of God not feared. Grace of God not cherished. Presence of God not prized. Person of God not loved. That is sin." ~John Piper
annanicole
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4/1/2013 9:38:42 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/1/2013 2:07:32 PM, Sola.Gratia wrote:
Christians, this topic is for you. If you say yes, explain why and if you say no explain why.

I'll start. I think that infant baptism is wrong because salvation is not based on baptism. Secondly, if parents wanna commit their child to God, then it is perfectly fine for the babe to be dedicated not baptized. Infant's don't have the understanding of what baptism is anyways. I have not found any Scriptures that say it is okay to baptize an infant child either. There are verses in the Bible that talk about being Baptized, but only to demonstrate one's proclamation of being saved. An infant cannot do this..

I'm open for any thoughts, opinions even Scripture to maybe change my mind. I am not looking for a debate, but if it means to get the point across then so be it.

Been away, but no, infants are not scriptural subjects for baptism for the following reasons:

(1) There is no clear-cut case of infant baptism in the entire New Testament.

(2) One must infer cases of infant baptism from household baptism by assuming that infants were in those households. Such an inference is not a necessary inference.

(3) Baptism is based upon belief, trust, and confidence (Acts 8: Philip to the eunuch, "If thou believest, thou mayest."). The eunuch asked if any condition hindered him. Belief was the stated condition. An infant cannot believe.

(4) Baptism is unto, or with a view forward to, the remission of sins. An infant, having transgressed no law, has no sin. Thus, an infant has no need of the remission of sins.

(5) An infant has no need of being saved, because an infant is unaccountable and safe.

(6) Baptism is often against the will of an infant.

(7) Baptism is predicated on a confession of belief in Jesus Christ. An infant cannot confess anything.

(8) Baptism is predicated upon repentance of past sins. An infant has no sin and is incapable of repentance.

Those would be eight reasons off the top of my head (and in no particular order) against the baptism of infants: no example of it and no need in it.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Dogknox
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4/2/2013 1:49:03 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Pennington you said.. Most of that was just useless to the conversation. But I did gather that you think infants who are incapable of understanding salvation are in fact saved by baptism. There are several problems with this stance. One being that everyone must make the decision to accept Jesus Christ. If you baptise a infant it has no decision in the matter.

Okay give me the scriptures please, scriptures that tell you; Infants must decide for themselves, they can't, so they can't be baptized to be saved!!?? There is NO scriptures you make it up!!

What you are talking about this>> everyone must make the decision to accept Jesus Christ. is the man made protestant teaching of; "TAKING Jesus as your lord and saviour"!
The teaching of: TAKING Jesus as your lord and saviour (alter call) is a LIE!!!! It is not found in the scriptures!

Pennington Saying the sinner's prayer saves NO ONE, the sinners prayer is NOT found in the scriptures! The sinners Prayer is a TEACHING coming from men who reject Baptism!
The sinners Prayer is a TEACHING coming from men who reject the ONLY CHURCH Jesus formed The Holy Catholic Church!

FACT from scriptures: WHOLE HOUSEHOLDS were Baptized!!

FACT: CHRISTIANS have always baptized INFANTS! The only concern mentioned among all the early Church CHRISTIANS was when to Baptize the baby.. On First day or before eight days! Never was it a concern if they should baptize infants.. They Baptized Infants!

Pennington What you forget is CHRISTIANS believe the scriptures and CHRISTIANS were IN the ONLY CHURCH Jesus formed! For sixteen hundred years CHRISTIANS baptized babies!

Pennington Then the de-Formation comes along sixteen hundred years after Jesus and these people who left the CHRISTIAN Church said.. ! We don't need church and the Baptism of CHURCH does not save!!
Pennington It was the PROTESTERS (people that reject Scriptures) that decided against baptism, against the CHRISTIANS and against Jesus!

Pennington NO SCRIPTURES say.. "Do not baptize INFANTS!"

Fact is, the opposite is found .. Jesus said.. "Do not stop the little children from coming to him"!

ONLY Baptism places the INFANT "INSIDE of Jesus" so NOT baptizing the infant is STOPPING them from coming to Jesus!

Pennington NOT Baptizing is the ONLY thing that makes sense in how they can be STOPPED from coming to Jesus!

You asked.. were did this tradition come from and is it Christian? Did the apostles baptise infants?

Right from the start.. CHRISTIANS Baptized Infants!
Jesus says "even infants" can be "brought" to him.
Luke 18:15
People were also bringing babies to Jesus for him to place his hands on them. When the disciples saw this, they rebuked them. 16 But Jesus called the children to him and said, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these.

The BABIES were NOT coming on their own to Jesus.. People were also bringing babies to Jesus
Pennington The Bible gives us no way of bringing anyone to Jesus apart from baptism.
The Babies were NOT crawling to Jesus.. They were BROUGHT to him! Just as the Parents today they bring their babies to CHURCH to be saved by Baptism! UNLESS....
Pennington unless they are baptized, they remain Adams children!

Acts 2:38 Peter declared, "Repent, and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is to you and to your children"

DID YOU SEE IT??! 39 For the promise is to you and to your children"

Pennington SCRIPTURES... Record the APOSTLE PETER, BAPTIZING CHILDREN TOPIC is about Baptism... "The promise is to you and to your children"

after verse 39 Peter continues talking about the importance of BAPTISM!
Before verse 39 the topic of the APOSTLES Peter is about BAPTISM! "The promise is to you and to your children"

After this verse 39 "The promise is to you and to your children" The topic continues on about the importance of Baptism!

THUS from the scriptures.. Baptism is for INFANTS/CHILDREN!
The Apostles not only Peter Baptized INFANTS/CHILDREN!

FACT: >>WHOLE HOUSEHOLDS WERE BAPTIZED!<<
Pennington No scriptures can be found that say.. "Whole households were baptized EXCEPT the infants!"
CHRISTIANS two Thousand years ago Baptized INFANTS!

Right you are You said.. Before baptism, one must know God (2 Thessalonians 1:8). If one is baptized as an infant, he is baptized without believing that Christ

I reply: SO WHAT???
THINK IT OUT: They are TAUGHT about Jesus as they grow up, they are TAUGHT by the CHURCH and their Parents! Just as the Jewish babies are circumcised on the eighth day.. They are also TAUGHT by the Rabies and their Parents on how to be a good Jew!!
Nothing is different!

You said.. Baptism is for forgiveness of sins (Acts 2:38). Infants have no sins, so they do not need to have sins remitted.
I reply 1/2 right.. "Baptism is to be ADDED to Jesus' body by the removal of sin and the gift from the Groom the Holy Spirit!
WATER & SPIRIT form God' children!

This part you are right about.. Infants have no sins, so they do not need to have sins remitted. thus they do NOT NEED to repent.. DUH!!
They still need to be ADDED to God' family!
They still need to be re-formed from Adam's children to God' Children!

Dogknox
Dogknox
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4/2/2013 2:26:53 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Sola.Gratia Your words.. yet the Bible says that its only trough faith in Christ that we are saved..

FAITH IN CHRIST>> Is believing the words of CHRIST!
The Bible says that its only through faith in Christ that we are saved, and Christ says.. "BE BAPTIZED TO BE SAVED!"

Sola.Gratia You reject Baptism saves so you do NOT have faith in Christ! DUH! You place your faith in men who teach what is NOT in the bible!
Words of Christ..(Bible)
1 Peter 3:21
and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also"not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ

Words of Christ>>>> Baptism saves you ALSO!!
You do NOT tell the truth, you reject the words of Jesus for the TEACHERS in your church, people that say "Baptism does NOT SAVE!"

The Body of Jesus saves.. His HOLY CHURCH SAVES.. all ADDED to Jesus body are in God' family! All ADDED to Jesus body are IN God only Son! All ADDED to Jesus body call God father! All ADDED to jesus body honor Mary their mother!
Baptism ADDS People to jesus' BODY!
Baptism makes DISCIPLES of all nations!
Disciples are Jesus brothers, all brothers of jesus call God father!

You said.. . its not about working our way to heaven sir.. Baptism adds proof of salvation not receiving salvation.
I reply "WHACK OH"????... Who said it is a work!!!
NO ONE CAN BAPTISE THEMSELVES!!!! DUH!!
No one can work their way into heaven.. Who says baptism is a work!!?? OH right more LIES coming from your protesting teachers!

Baptism is ZERO WORK on the part of the person being saved!!
Babies are CARRIED they are not even walking!! On the other hand...
Sola.Gratia Walking to front.. SAYING the sinner's Prayer... TAKING Jesus is all WORK!!
AS IF.. Now because you have TAKEN Jesus, God MUST save you, God has no choice..??!! Yeah right!!

You said.. Babies cannot proclamation of being saved because they DO NOT understand the things of God.. They will not be penalized for for not being baptized nor be penalized for not confessing Jesus as Lord.. They have nothing to worry about..
Unless the baby is baptized it remains a CHILD OF ADAM!!
Baptism makes Children for God, Baptism ADDS people to Jesus' holy body!

38 Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off"for all whom the Lord our God will call."

40 With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, "Save yourselves from this corrupt generation." 41 Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.


"Repent and be baptized for the forgiveness of your sins. receive the GIFT of the Holy Spirit!"
The promise is for you and your children
With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, "Save yourselves...
Those who accepted his message were baptized,!!!

Only those who were BAPTIZED were ADDED to Jesus' body!
3000 were Baptized so 3000 were ADDED to Jesus body the first day of Pentecost!
Before.. The promise is for you and your children the topic is Baptism!
After The promise is for you and your children the topic is about Baptism!

Thus the PROMISE for the Children is about Being saved by Baptism! It is about being ADDED to jesus`body by Baptism!

IF..
Sola.Gratia if you are IN Jesus' Holy Body then you are saved!!
Baptism saves because it ADDS people to Jesus Body!

FACT: CHRISTIANS have always Baptized INFANTS!
CHRISTIANS have always baptized to SAVE!
It is sixteen hundred years after Jesus that men taught Baptism does not save!
Baptism does NOT save is a LIE!

Sola.Gratia You have placed the salvation of your soul in the lies of Martin Luther, a man that rejected the scriptures.. His lies are; "Salvation by Faith ALONE" and "Scriptures ALONE"!!
"Salvation by Faith ALONE" cannot be found in the scriptures!!
"Salvation by Scriptures ALONE" cannot be found in the scriptures!!

Scriptures: YOU MUST LOVE!
You must do good works!

Sola.Gratia "pick up your cross and follow me"!
The man who places his salvation in Martin Luther' teaching; "Can't pick up a thing" for the fear of working!!

The Sheep go to heaven at the end judgement because, they "GIVE TO Jesus"! They are called the RIGHTEOUS!
The Goats go to the Lake of fire at the end judgement because they GIVE Nothing to Jesus! They are all who believe in saved by faith ALONE, a teaching of men!

Matthew 25
The Sheep are CHRISTIANS!
The Goats are all who have placed their salvation in Martin Luther and his teachings! These Goats are the de-formers and thier prodigy (you) .. all the protesters of Jesus and his bride, can't do any good works because of Martin Luther's lie!

Ephesians 2:10
For we are God"s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

Sola.Gratia Run for your life run from protestantism!!
Pennington
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4/2/2013 2:40:21 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/2/2013 1:49:03 AM, Dogknox wrote:
Pennington you said.. Most of that was just useless to the conversation. But I did gather that you think infants who are incapable of understanding salvation are in fact saved by baptism. There are several problems with this stance. One being that everyone must make the decision to accept Jesus Christ. If you baptise a infant it has no decision in the matter.

Okay give me the scriptures please, scriptures that tell you; Infants must decide for themselves, they can't, so they can't be baptized to be saved!!?? There is NO scriptures you make it up!!:
Mark 12:33 "And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices." Infants can not understand.
Hebrews 5:13, "For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe." Infants have no skill in righteousness because they are babes. They can not know or determine salvation.
Luke 3:3, "And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;" Infants have no sin therefore have no need for repentance of sins. We have many verses that say baptism is ofr repentance of sins therefore excluding infants.

What you are talking about this>> everyone must make the decision to accept Jesus Christ. is the man made protestant teaching of; "TAKING Jesus as your lord and saviour"!
The teaching of: TAKING Jesus as your lord and saviour (alter call) is a LIE!!!! It is not found in the scriptures!:
Really? Are you serious? Jesus can not come to someone and save them? The Holy Ghost does not move people to salvation? The Word of God does not lead to salvation? Alter or not, you are the liar and the scriptures show it. Jesus went and saught out all people in His life but you claim He only functions through the RCC.

Pennington Saying the sinner's prayer saves NO ONE, the sinners prayer is NOT found in the scriptures! The sinners Prayer is a TEACHING coming from men who reject Baptism!:
Sinners prayer? LOL. OK. Are you saying you should not ask Jesus to forgive sins or that people can not ask Jesus that?

FACT: CHRISTIANS have always baptized INFANTS!:
If they did it would be Biblical, yet it is not.
The only concern mentioned among all the early Church CHRISTIANS was when to Baptize the baby.. On First day or before eight days! Never was it a concern if they should baptize infants.. They Baptized Infants!:
That is because it was started by the RCC long after the gospels were written.

Pennington What you forget is CHRISTIANS believe the scriptures and CHRISTIANS were IN the ONLY CHURCH Jesus formed! For sixteen hundred years CHRISTIANS baptized babies!:
No they did not and it is a lie to say it was because we have records that infants were not baptised in early Christinaity. Jesus never formed the RCC also.

Pennington Then the de-Formation comes along sixteen hundred years after Jesus and these people who left the CHRISTIAN Church said.. ! We don't need church and the Baptism of CHURCH does not save!! :
No one denies baptism, just infant baptism.
Pennington It was the PROTESTERS (people that reject Scriptures) that decided against baptism, against the CHRISTIANS and against Jesus!:
Really no church I have ever been to rejects baptism.

Pennington NO SCRIPTURES say.. "Do not baptize INFANTS!":
No, none say do baptise infants. It must be in the Bible to practice it. If early Christians did practice it then it should be in the Bible.

Fact is, the opposite is found .. Jesus said.. "Do not stop the little children from coming to him"!:
Has nothing to do with baptism.

ONLY Baptism places the INFANT "INSIDE of Jesus" so NOT baptizing the infant is STOPPING them from coming to Jesus!:
Baptism is for remission of sins not salvation.

Pennington NOT Baptizing is the ONLY thing that makes sense in how they can be STOPPED from coming to Jesus!:
Were is baptism in this verse at all? It isnt. Of course kids and infants can come to Jesus but that does mean they understand salvation or baptism.

Right from the start.. CHRISTIANS Baptized Infants!:
Evidence.
Jesus says "even infants" can be "brought" to him. :
Physically not spiritually. Also no suggestion of baptism in this verse.

The BABIES were NOT coming on their own to Jesus.. People were also bringing babies to Jesus:
Of course, a Messiah, I would have too, doesnt make my baby understand and doesnt show any baptism at all here.
Pennington The Bible gives us no way of bringing anyone to Jesus apart from baptism.:
Yes it does and you have given multiple reason one can, faith and child bearing, your words.

Acts 2:38 Peter declared, "Repent, and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is to you and to your children" :
I guess infants were running out to get baptised when he said this.

DID YOU SEE IT??! 39 For the promise is to you and to your children" :
Children is not the same as infants. Can you distinguish form infants and children?

Pennington SCRIPTURES... Record the APOSTLE PETER, BAPTIZING CHILDREN TOPIC is about Baptism... "The promise is to you and to your children" :
I was baptised at 8 and knew what I was doing but I did not at 8 months.
After this verse 39 "The promise is to you and to your children" The topic continues on about the importance of Baptism!

THUS from the scriptures.. Baptism is for INFANTS/CHILDREN!:
Infants and children are not the same need a dictionary?
FACT: >>WHOLE HOUSEHOLDS WERE BAPTIZED!<<
Pennington No scriptures can be found that say.. "Whole households were baptized EXCEPT the infants!":
It never says whole households or infants.
CHRISTIANS two Thousand years ago Baptized INFANTS!:
evidence. The Bible said itself to have reason to why you believe, what reason do infants believe? IDK because they can not talk nor understand.

I reply: SO WHAT???
THINK IT OUT: They are TAUGHT about Jesus as they grow up, they are TAUGHT by the CHURCH and their Parents!:
Yes and they can reject it but you say they are saved anyway because you baptised them before they knew.

Also stop boasting with many words like your argument improves with many words. Stay on topic and stop trying to preach a whole serman.
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Pennington
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4/2/2013 3:05:27 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Mark 16:16, "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned."

Acts 22:16, "And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on his name."

Acts 2:41, "So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls."

Proverbs 22:6, "Train up a child in the way he should go; even when he is old he will not depart from it."

Acts 11:14, "He will declare to you a message by which you will be saved"

Luke 13:3, "No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish."

Romans 10:9, "Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved."
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Paradox_7
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4/2/2013 1:46:30 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
We should baptize our children because...

1. God has brought us into a covenant of grace and although not all members of this covenant will persevere (i.e., they are not elect), they enjoy special privileges of belonging to the covenant people of God. This was true of Israel (the church in the Old Testament), and the New Testament simply applies this to the New Testament church (Hebrews, esp. 4:1-11 and 6:4-12; Dt. 4:20 and 28:9 with 1 Pet. 2:9,10; Gal. 6:16; Hos. 2:23 and Is. 10:22 with Rom. 9:24-28).

2. Even though bringing someone under the protection of God's covenantal faithfulness does not guarantee that every member possesses true, persevering faith (Heb. 4:1-11), but that does not mean that it is unimportant as to whether a person is in Christ and his covenant of grace.

3. Children were included in the covenant of grace in the Old Testament, through the sacrament of circumcision, and in the New Covenant (called the "better covenant"), God has not changed in his good intentions toward our children (Ac. 2:38, 35) and circumcision has been replaced with baptism (Col. 2:11). Therefore, our children must be brought into the covenant of grace and united to Christ through baptism as the people of God in former times were brought into the covenant through circumcision.

4. The children of unbelievers are unholy, but the children of believers are set apart unto God. This is a distinction not only of the Old Testament (see the Passover, Ex.12:1; also the distinction between the "house of the wicked" and the "house of the righteous," especially in the Psalms), but is continued in the New Testament as
well (1 Cor. 10:2). How are they marked or distinguished from unbelievers? By the sign and seal of the covenant.

5. Household baptisms in the New Testament are common (see esp. Acts 16:15, 33; 1 Cor. 1:16), and when the jailer asked how to be saved, Paul replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved--you and your household." We are told that this same night "he and his family were baptized" (Ac.16:31-33).

6. There is an unbroken record in church history of the practice of infant baptism. Although tradition is of a secondary value, it is especially important here for this reason: We know for a fact that the earliest Christians after the death of the apostles were practicing infant baptism, with the command of those who were trained by the apostles themselves. Where was the debate, assuming these immediate successors to the disciples were departing from the apostolic practice?

7. Baptism is the work of God, not man. It is not a sign of the believer's commitment to God (which would, therefore, require prior faith and repentance), but the sign and seal of God's promise to save all who do not reject their baptism by refusing to trust in Christ. For the nature of baptism, see Mark 16:16, Acts. 22:16; Rom. 6:3; Tit. 3:5. The reason these references are to those who have first believed is that the first converts, obviously, were adults when the believed, but they evidently baptized their children. The same was true of Abraham, who believed before he was circumcised, but then had his children circumcised as infants.

http://www.onthewing.org...
: At 10/23/2012 8:06:03 PM, tvellalott wrote:
: Don't be. The Catholic Church is ran by Darth Sidius for fvck sake. As far as I'm concerned, you're a bona fide member of the Sith.
FREEDO
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4/2/2013 1:54:42 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Sprinkling some water on their heads doesn't really bother me.
As long as we aren't circumcising them.

But if I'm supposed to answer this from a theological perspective, it seems to be really pointless. What's the point of being baptized if it's not your choice?
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
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4/2/2013 2:11:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/2/2013 1:54:42 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Sprinkling some water on their heads doesn't really bother me.
As long as we aren't circumcising them.

But if I'm supposed to answer this from a theological perspective, it seems to be really pointless. What's the point of being baptized if it's not your choice?


Read Point 7, above ^
: At 10/23/2012 8:06:03 PM, tvellalott wrote:
: Don't be. The Catholic Church is ran by Darth Sidius for fvck sake. As far as I'm concerned, you're a bona fide member of the Sith.
FREEDO
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4/2/2013 2:35:28 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/2/2013 2:11:23 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 4/2/2013 1:54:42 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Sprinkling some water on their heads doesn't really bother me.
As long as we aren't circumcising them.

But if I'm supposed to answer this from a theological perspective, it seems to be really pointless. What's the point of being baptized if it's not your choice?


Read Point 7, above ^

Well, I suppose the issue I hold with that is that I look at this from a psychological perspective and not a scriptural one, as I'm not a believer.

It appears to me to be a representation of faith. And to not serve much practical function outside of that.

Having said that, I know a lot of Christians who would fight your interpretation to the end.
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4/2/2013 3:05:17 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/2/2013 2:35:28 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 4/2/2013 2:11:23 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 4/2/2013 1:54:42 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Sprinkling some water on their heads doesn't really bother me.
As long as we aren't circumcising them.

But if I'm supposed to answer this from a theological perspective, it seems to be really pointless. What's the point of being baptized if it's not your choice?


Read Point 7, above ^

Well, I suppose the issue I hold with that is that I look at this from a psychological perspective and not a scriptural one, as I'm not a believer.

Interesting since your answer was from a "theological" perspective.

It appears to me to be a representation of faith. And to not serve much practical function outside of that.

I understand it may appear as such, but the scriptures could explain to you what it actually is, and not merely what it appears to be.

Having said that, I know a lot of Christians who would fight your interpretation to the end.

I don't believe they would be fighting my interpretation, the scriptures defend themselves.
: At 10/23/2012 8:06:03 PM, tvellalott wrote:
: Don't be. The Catholic Church is ran by Darth Sidius for fvck sake. As far as I'm concerned, you're a bona fide member of the Sith.