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matt.mcguire88
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4/1/2013 4:11:34 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Well I've heard plenty of Atheists say they have converted from christianity.

Is there any christians here who have converted from atheism? I don't mean just becoming a christian from being secular, I mean is there anyone here who has become christian from an active obsessive theology?

And since atheists thrive on science and physical evidence, what evidence for those of you who have converted to atheism has changed your position, or is it just simply the "lack of evidence"?
GeoLaureate8
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4/1/2013 4:42:33 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I was raised Catholic, became non-denominational Christian in my teens, then Deist, then Atheist, then Pantheist.

In my early 20s I was a strong Atheist completely against Christianity, the Bible, and even Jesus. I debated against Christianity from a philosophical and doctrinal ground. Though, even as an Atheist I found that 90% of Atheists were morons, pseudo-intellectuals who thought they knew it all but don't know jack sh!t. Their arguments were bunk, next to none when it came to critical thinking.

Having been a Buddhist Atheist the past few years I now accept Jesus and about half the Bible, mostly the New Testament alongside Buddhism. I remember being an Atheist thinking the whole Bible is bunk but then be confounded when I stumbled across profound wisdom in passages such as the Proverbs.

I find particularly interesting the Gnostic Christian texts such as the Gospel of Thomas. I find that Atheists see mainstream Christian interpretations of the Bible and instead choose to ignore the allegorical aspects and true context of the scriptures. Many lessons overlooked due to applying scientific criticism where it doesn't belong.
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matt.mcguire88
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4/1/2013 5:00:28 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/1/2013 4:42:33 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
I was raised Catholic, became non-denominational Christian in my teens, then Deist, then Atheist, then Pantheist.

In my early 20s I was a strong Atheist completely against Christianity, the Bible, and even Jesus. I debated against Christianity from a philosophical and doctrinal ground. Though, even as an Atheist I found that 90% of Atheists were morons, pseudo-intellectuals who thought they knew it all but don't know jack sh!t. Their arguments were bunk, next to none when it came to critical thinking.

Having been a Buddhist Atheist the past few years I now accept Jesus and about half the Bible, mostly the New Testament alongside Buddhism. I remember being an Atheist thinking the whole Bible is bunk but then be confounded when I stumbled across profound wisdom in passages such as the Proverbs.

I find particularly interesting the Gnostic Christian texts such as the Gospel of Thomas. I find that Atheists see mainstream Christian interpretations of the Bible and instead choose to ignore the allegorical aspects and true context of the scriptures. Many lessons overlooked due to applying scientific criticism where it doesn't belong.

Very honest! I appreciate that :)
popculturepooka
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4/1/2013 5:19:30 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/1/2013 4:11:34 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
Well I've heard plenty of Atheists say they have converted from christianity.

Is there any christians here who have converted from atheism? I don't mean just becoming a christian from being secular, I mean is there anyone here who has become christian from an active obsessive theology?


I was an atheist.

And since atheists thrive on science and physical evidence, what evidence for those of you who have converted to atheism has changed your position, or is it just simply the "lack of evidence"?
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matt.mcguire88
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4/1/2013 5:20:06 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/1/2013 5:13:51 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
I converted from Strong Atheism to Agnostism, so I guess that's a step in your direction lol

Lol, keep taking the steps brother :) you have a great mind.
bladerunner060
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4/1/2013 5:41:52 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/1/2013 4:11:34 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:


And since atheists thrive on science and physical evidence, what evidence for those of you who have converted to atheism has changed your position, or is it just simply the "lack of evidence"?

I was raised Catholic, and confirmed in that faith. While my faith was never particularly strong, when I sat down to think about it, was when I became agnostic, under the popular conception of the term. When I looked into the terminology more, is when I became an agnostic atheist; I have no positive claims to make about anything supernatural except that no evidence has been shown to me sufficient to warrant a positive claim about anything supernatural. I have also come to realize certain contradictions in many common conceptions of the "god" concept, however, not all theists hold to those beliefs which are contradictory, and therefore not all gods are "impossible".

I do now, and have always, find it strange that "faith" justifies religion, when it would justify no other belief.

I've always appreciated the Mencken quote:

"We must respect the other fellow's religion, but only in the sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart."
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matt.mcguire88
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4/1/2013 6:09:11 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/1/2013 5:41:52 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 4/1/2013 4:11:34 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:


And since atheists thrive on science and physical evidence, what evidence for those of you who have converted to atheism has changed your position, or is it just simply the "lack of evidence"?

I was raised Catholic, and confirmed in that faith.

What do you think about christianity, as opposed to catholicism? I realise that you might not see a difference lol.

While my faith was never particularly strong,

Well then at least you admit it lol. How do you think faith can "grow", if your faith was weak? And what do you think about the mustard seed parable?

when I sat down to think about it, was when I became agnostic, under the popular conception of the term. When I looked into the terminology more, is when I became an agnostic atheist; I have no positive claims to make about anything supernatural except that no evidence has been shown to me sufficient to warrant a positive claim about anything supernatural.

That would partly be due to the fact that anyone elses supernatural claim will never be sufficient for YOU. Why?? because it has no material base for you to analyze. You have to have your own supernatural claim.

I have also come to realize certain contradictions in many common conceptions of the "god" concept, however, not all theists hold to those beliefs which are contradictory, and therefore not all gods are "impossible".

Yep

I do now, and have always, find it strange that "faith" justifies religion, when it would justify no other belief.

I have faith in my wife because she earned it. I have faith in a God because He earned it in my own life. Biblical faith comes from knowing and trusting God by applying His direction and seeing the fruit of it.

I've always appreciated the Mencken quote:

"We must respect the other fellow's religion, but only in the sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart."

Haha!
Skepsikyma
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4/1/2013 6:41:44 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I wasn't really raised with everything. I actually started out as a Hellenistic Pagan, and tried to sacrifice a millipede to Hecate in my backyard in hopes of fixing my bike before my father got home. The Greek pantheon lost my loyalty when they failed to deliver on the goods. I read the Bible a bit, and I liked the Lord's prayer because it sounded like a magic spell to me. I still remember my little sister and I running around, junior Bibles in one hand, witch-hazel twig 'wands' in the other, pointed at one another animatedly and shouting 'Give us this day our daily BREAD!' 'Lead us NOT into temptation' 'I hit you! You're bread now!'. But it wasn't ever anything more than a game; I've never to this day understood in any way those who take it seriously. I just can't make that leap of faith. It's not that I don't want too, I've been curious at times. I think I'm somehow incapable of it.

The first time I was ever seriously religious as when I converted to Theravada Buddhism, which gave me a set of tools which were immensely useful when it came to bettering my life, without requiring faith of any kind. That lasted for about five to six years before Epicurus dragged me into the thrilling philosophical maelstrom in which I now find myself.
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bladerunner060
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4/1/2013 7:35:35 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/1/2013 6:09:11 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:

What do you think about christianity, as opposed to catholicism? I realise that you might not see a difference lol.

I see a difference. But it's like the difference between Vanilla and Vanilla Bean Ice Cream flavors: They're real similar, and they're both ice cream.

Well then at least you admit it lol. How do you think faith can "grow", if your faith was weak? And what do you think about the mustard seed parable?

The mustard seed parable has nothing to do with faith. Jesus is talking about the "Kingdom of God". Matthew 17:20 uses the mustard seed, but uses it to say that even the TINIEST bit of faith is enough to literally move mountains. Yet that seems to not be the case when actually applied.

Beyond that, mustards seeds don't make trees.


That would partly be due to the fact that anyone elses supernatural claim will never be sufficient for YOU. Why?? because it has no material base for you to analyze. You have to have your own supernatural claim.

That's not accurate. The hallmark of a sufficient claim is its demosntrability. If prayer worked every time, there wouldn't be a material base necessarily, but there would be demonstrable evidence of prayer working (of course, that still wouldn't justify god necessarily, but it would at least give us a reasonable basis to believe there is SOMETHING in the claims).

What you're confusing is subjective experience with objective experience. And here's the thing about subjective experience: We know, for a fact, that it is OFTEN wrong. So it seems supremely arrogant to say "Well, even though I know both my pattern-recognition abilities and my senses can be fooled, but despite the fact I can't give a rational basis for X, it's totally true".

I have faith in my wife because she earned it. I have faith in a God because He earned it in my own life.

How? You're appealing to faith via induction. For that to be legit, there has to be consistency. After all, if your wife cheated on your all the time, most would consider your faith misplaced. And if god is similarly capricious, then your faith would be equally misplaced.

Of course, the analogy fails because you aren't really talking about the same kind of "faith" here; your wife's EXISTENCE is fairly beyond question, I presume, and you believe in her existence not based on induction, but rather via actual evidence; we're talking here about whether god exists at all, we haven't gotten to his goodness or willingness to intervene in your life etc.

Biblical faith comes from knowing and trusting God by applying His direction and seeing the fruit of it.

That the bible may have good advice does nothing to show the veracity of its supernatural claims.

If I said "You should be nice to people, and you should pay your taxes on time or you'll suffer fines and maybe be arrested. I know this because the Flying Spaghetti Monster told me so," would you consider that legitimate evidence in the existence of the FSM?
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1Devilsadvocate
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4/2/2013 8:57:20 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/1/2013 4:11:34 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
Well I've heard plenty of Atheists say they have converted from Christianity.

Is there any christians here who have converted from atheism? I don't mean just becoming a christian from being secular, I mean is there anyone here who has become christian from an active obsessive theology?

And since atheists thrive on science and physical evidence, what evidence for those of you who have converted to atheism has changed your position, or is it just simply the "lack of evidence"?

I don't know about on here, but there have been big names that converted from Atheism:

The 1st that comes to mind is C.S. Lewis, one of the greatest Christian apologists.
He was born christian, became an atheist, reverted back.

The 2nd big one that comes to mind is Anthony Flew.
Flew was a strong advocate of atheism, arguing that one should presuppose atheism until empirical evidence of a God surfaces.
His whole life, he was an Atheist, he wrote over 30 books, many of them "disproving" God. His Final Book was "There is a God".

While an undergraduate, Flew attended the weekly meetings of C. S. Lewis's Socratic Club fairly regularly. Although he found Lewis to be "an eminently reasonable man" and "by far the most powerful of Christian apologists for the sixty or more years following his founding of that club," he was not persuaded by Lewis's argument from morality as found in Mere Christianity. Flew also criticized several of the other philosophical proofs for God's existence. He concluded that the ontological argument in particular failed because it is based on the premise that the concept of Being can be derived from the concept of Goodness. Only the scientific forms of the teleological argument ultimately impressed Flew as decisive
http://stevelaube.com...
The work of the Orthodox Jewish nuclear physicist Gerald Schroeder had been influential in Flew's new belief.

A 3rd Really big one is Christian B. Anfinsen, a Nobel prize-winning chemist who converted to Orthodox Judaism.

Another Nobel Prize winner that became an orthodox Jew was Samuel Yosef Agnon.

Wikipedia actually has a list of notable people who converted to Christianity, Islam & Judaism:

Christianity - http://en.wikipedia.org...

Islam - http://en.wikipedia.org...

Judaism - http://en.wikipedia.org... , http://en.wikipedia.org...

List of former atheists and agnostics:
http://en.wikipedia.org...
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Miasma
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4/2/2013 10:47:42 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/2/2013 8:57:20 PM, 1Devilsadvocate wrote:

The 2nd big one that comes to mind is Anthony Flew.
Flew was a strong advocate of atheism, arguing that one should presuppose atheism until empirical evidence of a God surfaces.
His whole life, he was an Atheist, he wrote over 30 books, many of them "disproving" God. His Final Book was "There is a God".

While an undergraduate, Flew attended the weekly meetings of C. S. Lewis's Socratic Club fairly regularly. Although he found Lewis to be "an eminently reasonable man" and "by far the most powerful of Christian apologists for the sixty or more years following his founding of that club," he was not persuaded by Lewis's argument from morality as found in Mere Christianity. Flew also criticized several of the other philosophical proofs for God's existence. He concluded that the ontological argument in particular failed because it is based on the premise that the concept of Being can be derived from the concept of Goodness. Only the scientific forms of the teleological argument ultimately impressed Flew as decisive
http://stevelaube.com...
The work of the Orthodox Jewish nuclear physicist Gerald Schroeder had been influential in Flew's new belief.

I'd like to point out Flew converted to Deism, not Christianity.
Composer
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4/3/2013 7:06:12 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/1/2013 4:42:33 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
I was raised Catholic, became non-denominational Christian in my teens, then Deist, then Atheist, then Pantheist.

Is that supposed to impress readers?

At 4/1/2013 4:42:33 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Having been a Buddhist Atheist the past few years I now accept Jesus and about half the Bible, mostly the New Testament alongside Buddhism. I remember being an Atheist thinking the whole Bible is bunk but then be confounded when I stumbled across profound wisdom in passages such as the Proverbs.

And what made you believe a Supernatural god was responsible for this alleged ' profound wisdom? '.

Can you give us examples of some of the bits you have currently decided to believe and why you now believe those bits but didn't before and why you believe a Supernatural god wrote or inspired them?
GeoLaureate8
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4/3/2013 10:49:08 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/3/2013 7:06:12 AM, Composer wrote:
At 4/1/2013 4:42:33 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
I was raised Catholic, became non-denominational Christian in my teens, then Deist, then Atheist, then Pantheist.

Is that supposed to impress readers?

It was supposed to address the OP.

At 4/1/2013 4:42:33 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Having been a Buddhist Atheist the past few years I now accept Jesus and about half the Bible, mostly the New Testament alongside Buddhism. I remember being an Atheist thinking the whole Bible is bunk but then be confounded when I stumbled across profound wisdom in passages such as the Proverbs.

And what made you believe a Supernatural god was responsible for this alleged ' profound wisdom? '.

I don't.

1. I reject the natural vs supernatural paradigm. Everything is natural.

2. No one claims God picked up a pen and wrote the Bible. I believe Jesus was a philosopher, sage, and Samaritan and the Bible was mostly written by those who bore witness to him.

Can you give us examples of some of the bits you have currently decided to believe and why you now believe those bits but didn't before and why you believe a Supernatural god wrote or inspired them?

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For it is by wise guidance that you wage your war, and the victory is due to a wealth of counselors.
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phantom
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4/3/2013 1:11:16 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
And since atheists thrive on science and physical evidence, what evidence for those of you who have converted to atheism has changed your position, or is it just simply the "lack of evidence"?

Mostly lack of evidence. I was raised deeply Christian (creationism, literalism, anti-homsexuality etc...). My parents were missionaries up until about 3 years ago and I was homeschooled. I joined this site having almost no doubts about my beliefs. I thought they were rationally grounded but soon realized they were mostly bull after failing miserably to defend them. I went into more or less agnosticism for a short period. After being introduced to liberal Christianity, mainly by seeing PCP's posts/debates, I guess I regained my faith. Stayed a liberal Christian for a while but began seeing I didn't really find many of the arguments I used to find convincing sound. I dropped religion and became a deist. That lasted a short time as I began to wander if I really did actually find any of the arguments for God convincing. Yes, I found allot of them reasonable, but I stopped seeing any of them as probably correct. So I became an atheist.

As a side note, though I love my parents, I don't think any parent should raise their kid as they did to me in regards to belief. I was taught Christianity was true without question and never had the slightest doubt due to my upbringing. Besides my intellectual disapproval, the existential risks of such an upbringing can be heavy. Realizing I no longer believed in Christianity brought me into a long depression which I am still struggling (though definitely gaining ground) through. Believing the world had purpose and meaning and that I only had eternal happiness ahead of me without a doubt and then suddenly becoming highly skeptical of that worldview, was devastating to me. I wouldn't want any of my kids to ever go through that, so you shouldn't give your children such certainty as it can very well be devastating to them latter on. Just something I think religious people who have kids, or will have kids, should consider.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
phantom
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4/3/2013 1:13:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/3/2013 1:11:16 PM, phantom wrote:
And since atheists thrive on science and physical evidence, what evidence for those of you who have converted to atheism has changed your position, or is it just simply the "lack of evidence"?

Mostly lack of evidence. I was raised deeply Christian (creationism, literalism, anti-homsexuality etc...). My parents were missionaries up until about 3 years ago and I was homeschooled. I joined this site having almost no doubts about my beliefs. I thought they were rationally grounded but soon realized they were mostly bull after failing miserably to defend them. I went into more or less agnosticism for a short period. After being introduced to liberal Christianity, mainly by seeing PCP's posts/debates, I guess I regained my faith. Stayed a liberal Christian for a while but began seeing I didn't really find many of the arguments I used to find convincing sound. I dropped religion and became a deist. That lasted a short time as I began to wander if I really did actually find any of the arguments for God convincing. Yes, I found allot of them reasonable, but I stopped seeing any of them as probably correct. So I became an atheist.

As a side note, though I love my parents, I don't think any parent should raise their kid as they did to me in regards to belief. I was taught Christianity was true without question and never had the slightest doubt due to my upbringing. Besides my intellectual disapproval, the existential risks of such an upbringing can be heavy. Realizing I no longer believed in Christianity brought me into a long depression which I am still struggling (though definitely gaining ground) through. Believing the world had purpose and meaning and that I only had eternal happiness ahead of me without a doubt and then suddenly becoming highly skeptical of that worldview, was devastating to me. I wouldn't want any of my kids to ever go through that, so you shouldn't give your children such certainty as it can very well be devastating to them latter on. Just something I think religious people who have kids, or will have kids, should consider.

I forgot to add, I also never felt any personal spiritual experience or connection with God, so that's why I needed evidence based belief so much.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
Rational_Thinker9119
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4/3/2013 1:57:24 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/3/2013 1:13:41 PM, phantom wrote:
At 4/3/2013 1:11:16 PM, phantom wrote:
And since atheists thrive on science and physical evidence, what evidence for those of you who have converted to atheism has changed your position, or is it just simply the "lack of evidence"?

Mostly lack of evidence. I was raised deeply Christian (creationism, literalism, anti-homsexuality etc...). My parents were missionaries up until about 3 years ago and I was homeschooled. I joined this site having almost no doubts about my beliefs. I thought they were rationally grounded but soon realized they were mostly bull after failing miserably to defend them. I went into more or less agnosticism for a short period. After being introduced to liberal Christianity, mainly by seeing PCP's posts/debates, I guess I regained my faith. Stayed a liberal Christian for a while but began seeing I didn't really find many of the arguments I used to find convincing sound. I dropped religion and became a deist. That lasted a short time as I began to wander if I really did actually find any of the arguments for God convincing. Yes, I found allot of them reasonable, but I stopped seeing any of them as probably correct. So I became an atheist.

As a side note, though I love my parents, I don't think any parent should raise their kid as they did to me in regards to belief. I was taught Christianity was true without question and never had the slightest doubt due to my upbringing. Besides my intellectual disapproval, the existential risks of such an upbringing can be heavy. Realizing I no longer believed in Christianity brought me into a long depression which I am still struggling (though definitely gaining ground) through. Believing the world had purpose and meaning and that I only had eternal happiness ahead of me without a doubt and then suddenly becoming highly skeptical of that worldview, was devastating to me. I wouldn't want any of my kids to ever go through that, so you shouldn't give your children such certainty as it can very well be devastating to them latter on. Just something I think religious people who have kids, or will have kids, should consider.

I forgot to add, I also never felt any personal spiritual experience or connection with God, so that's why I needed evidence based belief so much.

This is a good point. I've never had a spiritual experience, and I've never felt like there was a good reason to believe in the supernatural. Hearing about Jesus turning water into wine is nonsense to me, like big foot turning a stone into milk. The idea of the supernatural just intuitively strikes me as false and far-fetched based on how the world actually is (you don't see people rising from the dead and doing magic in this world lol). That doesn't mean there isn't a supernatural, but it means I need a good reason to believe there is a God or a supernatural.
1Devilsadvocate
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4/3/2013 4:24:58 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/3/2013 1:13:41 PM, phantom wrote:
At 4/3/2013 1:11:16 PM, phantom wrote:
And since atheists thrive on science and physical evidence, what evidence for those of you who have converted to atheism has changed your position, or is it just simply the "lack of evidence"?

Mostly lack of evidence. I was raised deeply Christian (creationism, literalism, anti-homsexuality etc...). My parents were missionaries up until about 3 years ago and I was homeschooled. I joined this site having almost no doubts about my beliefs. I thought they were rationally grounded but soon realized they were mostly bull after failing miserably to defend them. I went into more or less agnosticism for a short period. After being introduced to liberal Christianity, mainly by seeing PCP's posts/debates, I guess I regained my faith. Stayed a liberal Christian for a while but began seeing I didn't really find many of the arguments I used to find convincing sound. I dropped religion and became a deist. That lasted a short time as I began to wander if I really did actually find any of the arguments for God convincing. Yes, I found allot of them reasonable, but I stopped seeing any of them as probably correct. So I became an atheist.

As a side note, though I love my parents, I don't think any parent should raise their kid as they did to me in regards to belief. I was taught Christianity was true without question and never had the slightest doubt due to my upbringing. Besides my intellectual disapproval, the existential risks of such an upbringing can be heavy. Realizing I no longer believed in Christianity brought me into a long depression which I am still struggling (though definitely gaining ground) through. Believing the world had purpose and meaning and that I only had eternal happiness ahead of me without a doubt and then suddenly becoming highly skeptical of that worldview, was devastating to me. I wouldn't want any of my kids to ever go through that, so you shouldn't give your children such certainty as it can very well be devastating to them latter on. Just something I think religious people who have kids, or will have kids, should consider.

I forgot to add, I also never felt any personal spiritual experience or connection with God, so that's why I needed evidence based belief so much.

I thought you mentioned something about once having a spiritual like experience, or something like that.?
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phantom
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4/3/2013 4:32:13 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/3/2013 4:24:58 PM, 1Devilsadvocate wrote:
At 4/3/2013 1:13:41 PM, phantom wrote:
At 4/3/2013 1:11:16 PM, phantom wrote:
And since atheists thrive on science and physical evidence, what evidence for those of you who have converted to atheism has changed your position, or is it just simply the "lack of evidence"?

Mostly lack of evidence. I was raised deeply Christian (creationism, literalism, anti-homsexuality etc...). My parents were missionaries up until about 3 years ago and I was homeschooled. I joined this site having almost no doubts about my beliefs. I thought they were rationally grounded but soon realized they were mostly bull after failing miserably to defend them. I went into more or less agnosticism for a short period. After being introduced to liberal Christianity, mainly by seeing PCP's posts/debates, I guess I regained my faith. Stayed a liberal Christian for a while but began seeing I didn't really find many of the arguments I used to find convincing sound. I dropped religion and became a deist. That lasted a short time as I began to wander if I really did actually find any of the arguments for God convincing. Yes, I found allot of them reasonable, but I stopped seeing any of them as probably correct. So I became an atheist.

As a side note, though I love my parents, I don't think any parent should raise their kid as they did to me in regards to belief. I was taught Christianity was true without question and never had the slightest doubt due to my upbringing. Besides my intellectual disapproval, the existential risks of such an upbringing can be heavy. Realizing I no longer believed in Christianity brought me into a long depression which I am still struggling (though definitely gaining ground) through. Believing the world had purpose and meaning and that I only had eternal happiness ahead of me without a doubt and then suddenly becoming highly skeptical of that worldview, was devastating to me. I wouldn't want any of my kids to ever go through that, so you shouldn't give your children such certainty as it can very well be devastating to them latter on. Just something I think religious people who have kids, or will have kids, should consider.

I forgot to add, I also never felt any personal spiritual experience or connection with God, so that's why I needed evidence based belief so much.

I thought you mentioned something about once having a spiritual like experience, or something like that.?

That was while I was a deist so I wasn't sure what it was at the time and after it ended within a week, I was fairly sure it was just emotions. Since it was so shortlived and not while I was a Christian, I just discounted it in my above post.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
Nur-Ab-Sal
Posts: 1,637
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4/3/2013 4:59:49 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I was once an atheist. So was Dr. Edward Feser, so the only valid conclusion is that I'm in the same intellectual category as him.

Right...?
Genesis I. And God created man to his own image: to the image of God he created him: male and female he created them.
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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4/3/2013 6:25:31 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/3/2013 4:59:49 PM, Nur-Ab-Sal wrote:
I was once an atheist. So was Dr. Edward Feser, so the only valid conclusion is that I'm in the same intellectual category as him.

Right...?

Seems legit.
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AlbinoBunny
Posts: 3,781
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4/4/2013 8:27:24 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/1/2013 4:11:34 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
Well I've heard plenty of Atheists say they have converted from christianity.

Is there any christians here who have converted from atheism? I don't mean just becoming a christian from being secular, I mean is there anyone here who has become christian from an active obsessive theology?

And since atheists thrive on science and physical evidence, what evidence for those of you who have converted to atheism has changed your position, or is it just simply the "lack of evidence"?

A what?

Assumption?
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matt.mcguire88
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4/4/2013 11:27:19 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/4/2013 8:27:24 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 4/1/2013 4:11:34 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
Well I've heard plenty of Atheists say they have converted from christianity.

Is there any christians here who have converted from atheism? I don't mean just becoming a christian from being secular, I mean is there anyone here who has become christian from an active obsessive theology?

And since atheists thrive on science and physical evidence, what evidence for those of you who have converted to atheism has changed your position, or is it just simply the "lack of evidence"?

A what?

Assumption?

I was not interested in someone who had become a christian, but anyone who had converted from a rigorous belief system to christianity, thats all.

Assumption? No not really
AlbinoBunny
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4/4/2013 11:36:19 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/4/2013 11:27:19 AM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 4/4/2013 8:27:24 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 4/1/2013 4:11:34 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
Well I've heard plenty of Atheists say they have converted from christianity.

Is there any christians here who have converted from atheism? I don't mean just becoming a christian from being secular, I mean is there anyone here who has become christian from an active obsessive theology?

And since atheists thrive on science and physical evidence, what evidence for those of you who have converted to atheism has changed your position, or is it just simply the "lack of evidence"?

A what?

Assumption?

I was not interested in someone who had become a christian, but anyone who had converted from a rigorous belief system to christianity, thats all.

Assumption? No not really

I thought you were interested in Christians who had converted from atheism, which I wouldn't call a "rigorous belief system" or an "active obsessive theology".

You assumed all atheists thrive on science and physical evidence and implied that theists don't.
bladerunner060 | bsh1 , 2014! Presidency campaign!

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matt.mcguire88
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4/4/2013 11:44:24 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/4/2013 11:36:19 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 4/4/2013 11:27:19 AM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 4/4/2013 8:27:24 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 4/1/2013 4:11:34 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
Well I've heard plenty of Atheists say they have converted from christianity.

Is there any christians here who have converted from atheism? I don't mean just becoming a christian from being secular, I mean is there anyone here who has become christian from an active obsessive theology?

And since atheists thrive on science and physical evidence, what evidence for those of you who have converted to atheism has changed your position, or is it just simply the "lack of evidence"?

A what?

Assumption?

I was not interested in someone who had become a christian, but anyone who had converted from a rigorous belief system to christianity, thats all.

Assumption? No not really

I thought you were interested in Christians who had converted from atheism, which I wouldn't call a "rigorous belief system" or an "active obsessive theology".

AH yeah I get ya, my bad your right.

You assumed all atheists thrive on science and physical evidence and implied that theists don't.

Not really, but I get what you mean
Dogknox
Posts: 5,051
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4/4/2013 5:07:55 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/1/2013 4:42:33 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
I was raised Catholic, became non-denominational Christian in my teens, then Deist, then Atheist, then Pantheist.

In my early 20s I was a strong Atheist completely against Christianity, the Bible, and even Jesus. I debated against Christianity from a philosophical and doctrinal ground. Though, even as an Atheist I found that 90% of Atheists were morons, pseudo-intellectuals who thought they knew it all but don't know jack sh!t. Their arguments were bunk, next to none when it came to critical thinking.

Having been a Buddhist Atheist the past few years I now accept Jesus and about half the Bible, mostly the New Testament alongside Buddhism. I remember being an Atheist thinking the whole Bible is bunk but then be confounded when I stumbled across profound wisdom in passages such as the Proverbs.

I find particularly interesting the Gnostic Christian texts such as the Gospel of Thomas. I find that Atheists see mainstream Christian interpretations of the Bible and instead choose to ignore the allegorical aspects and true context of the scriptures. Many lessons overlooked due to applying scientific criticism where it doesn't belong.

GeoLaureate8 Good to meet you..
I ask: is not Gnosticism a belief saying; "All the truly enlightened become god' unto themselves"?!

I am sure I am missing something.. it is hard to put into a nut shell..
"Can you enlighten me"? ha-ha no pun intended.

Dogknox
matt.mcguire88
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4/4/2013 6:18:56 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/3/2013 1:11:16 PM, phantom wrote:
And since atheists thrive on science and physical evidence, what evidence for those of you who have converted to atheism has changed your position, or is it just simply the "lack of evidence"?

Mostly lack of evidence. I was raised deeply Christian (creationism, literalism, anti-homsexuality etc...). My parents were missionaries up until about 3 years ago and I was homeschooled. I joined this site having almost no doubts about my beliefs. I thought they were rationally grounded but soon realized they were mostly bull after failing miserably to defend them. I went into more or less agnosticism for a short period. After being introduced to liberal Christianity, mainly by seeing PCP's posts/debates, I guess I regained my faith. Stayed a liberal Christian for a while but began seeing I didn't really find many of the arguments I used to find convincing sound. I dropped religion and became a deist. That lasted a short time as I began to wander if I really did actually find any of the arguments for God convincing. Yes, I found allot of them reasonable, but I stopped seeing any of them as probably correct. So I became a

As a side note, though I love my parents, I don't think any parent should raise their kid as they did to me in regards to belief. I was taught Christianity was true without question and never had the slightest doubt due to my upbringing. Besides my intellectual disapproval, the existential risks of such an upbringing can be heavy. Realizing I no longer believed in Christianity brought me into a long depression which I am still struggling (though definitely gaining ground) through. Believing the world had purpose and meaning and that I only had eternal happiness ahead of me without a doubt and then suddenly becoming highly skeptical of that worldview, was devastating to me. I wouldn't want any of my kids to ever go through that, so you shouldn't give your children such certainty as it can very well be devastating to them latter on. Just something I think religious people who have kids, or will have kids, should consider.

Wow, I began my commitment to God at the age you are lol. Have you ever considered christianity a life style rather than a theology? I mean you seem rather young to have changed your position with any real experience, maybe. Christianity is not just some philosophy many of the principles of christianity are applied and learned and tested James 1:3-4, John 8:31.

Thank you, I will consider that and at least I think I do lol. My kidz are exposed to it all man, there aint no hiddin anything nowadays. All there friends and school mates are of difference and that doesn't bother me, I just tell them what I believe and try to make it an example but we don't hide the fact that there are various views and beliefs, they are aware of that.
AlbinoBunny
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4/5/2013 3:43:08 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/4/2013 6:18:56 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 4/3/2013 1:11:16 PM, phantom wrote:
And since atheists thrive on science and physical evidence, what evidence for those of you who have converted to atheism has changed your position, or is it just simply the "lack of evidence"?

Mostly lack of evidence. I was raised deeply Christian (creationism, literalism, anti-homsexuality etc...). My parents were missionaries up until about 3 years ago and I was homeschooled. I joined this site having almost no doubts about my beliefs. I thought they were rationally grounded but soon realized they were mostly bull after failing miserably to defend them. I went into more or less agnosticism for a short period. After being introduced to liberal Christianity, mainly by seeing PCP's posts/debates, I guess I regained my faith. Stayed a liberal Christian for a while but began seeing I didn't really find many of the arguments I used to find convincing sound. I dropped religion and became a deist. That lasted a short time as I began to wander if I really did actually find any of the arguments for God convincing. Yes, I found allot of them reasonable, but I stopped seeing any of them as probably correct. So I became a

As a side note, though I love my parents, I don't think any parent should raise their kid as they did to me in regards to belief. I was taught Christianity was true without question and never had the slightest doubt due to my upbringing. Besides my intellectual disapproval, the existential risks of such an upbringing can be heavy. Realizing I no longer believed in Christianity brought me into a long depression which I am still struggling (though definitely gaining ground) through. Believing the world had purpose and meaning and that I only had eternal happiness ahead of me without a doubt and then suddenly becoming highly skeptical of that worldview, was devastating to me. I wouldn't want any of my kids to ever go through that, so you shouldn't give your children such certainty as it can very well be devastating to them latter on. Just something I think religious people who have kids, or will have kids, should consider.

Wow, I began my commitment to God at the age you are lol. Have you ever considered christianity a life style rather than a theology? I mean you seem rather young to have changed your position with any real experience, maybe. Christianity is not just some philosophy many of the principles of christianity are applied and learned and tested James 1:3-4, John 8:31.


Thank you, I will consider that and at least I think I do lol. My kidz are exposed to it all man, there aint no hiddin anything nowadays. All there friends and school mates are of difference and that doesn't bother me, I just tell them what I believe and try to make it an example but we don't hide the fact that there are various views and beliefs, they are aware of that.

No, but if I did I would consider it a silly lifestyle.
bladerunner060 | bsh1 , 2014! Presidency campaign!

http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org... - Running for president.
http://www.debate.org... - Running as his vice president.

May the best man win!
matt.mcguire88
Posts: 1,137
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4/5/2013 9:48:08 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/5/2013 3:43:08 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 4/4/2013 6:18:56 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 4/3/2013 1:11:16 PM, phantom wrote:
And since atheists thrive on science and physical evidence, what evidence for those of you who have converted to atheism has changed your position, or is it just simply the "lack of evidence"?

Mostly lack of evidence. I was raised deeply Christian (creationism, literalism, anti-homsexuality etc...). My parents were missionaries up until about 3 years ago and I was homeschooled. I joined this site having almost no doubts about my beliefs. I thought they were rationally grounded but soon realized they were mostly bull after failing miserably to defend them. I went into more or less agnosticism for a short period. After being introduced to liberal Christianity, mainly by seeing PCP's posts/debates, I guess I regained my faith. Stayed a liberal Christian for a while but began seeing I didn't really find many of the arguments I used to find convincing sound. I dropped religion and became a deist. That lasted a short time as I began to wander if I really did actually find any of the arguments for God convincing. Yes, I found allot of them reasonable, but I stopped seeing any of them as probably correct. So I became a

As a side note, though I love my parents, I don't think any parent should raise their kid as they did to me in regards to belief. I was taught Christianity was true without question and never had the slightest doubt due to my upbringing. Besides my intellectual disapproval, the existential risks of such an upbringing can be heavy. Realizing I no longer believed in Christianity brought me into a long depression which I am still struggling (though definitely gaining ground) through. Believing the world had purpose and meaning and that I only had eternal happiness ahead of me without a doubt and then suddenly becoming highly skeptical of that worldview, was devastating to me. I wouldn't want any of my kids to ever go through that, so you shouldn't give your children such certainty as it can very well be devastating to them latter on. Just something I think religious people who have kids, or will have kids, should consider.

Wow, I began my commitment to God at the age you are lol. Have you ever considered christianity a life style rather than a theology? I mean you seem rather young to have changed your position with any real experience, maybe. Christianity is not just some philosophy many of the principles of christianity are applied and learned and tested James 1:3-4, John 8:31.


Thank you, I will consider that and at least I think I do lol. My kidz are exposed to it all man, there aint no hiddin anything nowadays. All there friends and school mates are of difference and that doesn't bother me, I just tell them what I believe and try to make it an example but we don't hide the fact that there are various views and beliefs, they are aware of that.

No, but if I did I would consider it a silly lifestyle.

Do you think those verses are silly?

What is silly about living christianity rather than observing it Rev 3:16? To seek God rather than talk or think about it Luke 10:25-27, to love and reach people with love rather than just accepting it as passing truth, to persevere and to be longsuffering and steadfast Galatians 5, to honor God with more than our lips? Isaiah 29:13.

I don't think there is anything silly about living a christian life, what makes it silly as opposed to your lifestyle of choice?