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Homosexuality quote

Pennington
Posts: 1,286
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4/4/2013 12:43:58 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
"The task was especially difficult because there is little controversy in the rabbinic tradition on the meaning of Leviticus 18:22. While it is translated in various ways, the basic meaning has always seemed pretty clear: "And with a male you shall not lie the lyings of a woman, it is an abomination." The only difficult phrase is mishkeve isha (usually parsed as "the lyings of a woman"), because the phrase appears nowhere else in the Bible. A similar phrase, the lying of a male (mishkav zachar), appears in Numbers 31:18 and is understood to mean what women experience in intercourse, i.e. penile penetration. Consequently, mishkeve isha is what men experience in intercourse, that is, penile engulfment. If so, then the verse prohibits a man from lying with a male in such a way that his penis is engulfed in the other man"s body. And where is a man penetrable? Here the rabbis make use of the fact that the word lyings is in the plural form. The lyings of a woman are plural because she may be penetrated vaginally or anally. A man, missing the vagina, is singly penetrable anally. Consequently, for millennia the tradition understood that Leviticus 18:22 prohibited anal intercourse between men and Leviticus 20:13 reiterated and punished the crime with death by stoning."

Does this quote show that male and male sex is a sin?
Does this also show that homosexuality is a sin?
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bladerunner060
Posts: 7,126
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4/4/2013 12:56:07 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/4/2013 12:43:58 AM, Pennington wrote:
"The task was especially difficult because there is little controversy in the rabbinic tradition on the meaning of Leviticus 18:22. While it is translated in various ways, the basic meaning has always seemed pretty clear: "And with a male you shall not lie the lyings of a woman, it is an abomination." The only difficult phrase is mishkeve isha (usually parsed as "the lyings of a woman"), because the phrase appears nowhere else in the Bible. A similar phrase, the lying of a male (mishkav zachar), appears in Numbers 31:18 and is understood to mean what women experience in intercourse, i.e. penile penetration. Consequently, mishkeve isha is what men experience in intercourse, that is, penile engulfment. If so, then the verse prohibits a man from lying with a male in such a way that his penis is engulfed in the other man"s body. And where is a man penetrable? Here the rabbis make use of the fact that the word lyings is in the plural form. The lyings of a woman are plural because she may be penetrated vaginally or anally. A man, missing the vagina, is singly penetrable anally. Consequently, for millennia the tradition understood that Leviticus 18:22 prohibited anal intercourse between men and Leviticus 20:13 reiterated and punished the crime with death by stoning."

Does this quote show that male and male sex is a sin?
Does this also show that homosexuality is a sin?

Actually, no; there are more ways to have homosexual sex than anal penetration.

I'm actually surprised, considering I was under the impression the bible was against homosexuality, but at the risk of being snarky, the context of this that you've posted seems to indicate the bible is only against the buttsecks; handies, BJs, etc. are all okay, I guess, so long as the butt stays clear, according to the bit you're posted.
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YYW
Posts: 36,310
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4/4/2013 12:56:44 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/4/2013 12:43:58 AM, Pennington wrote:
"The task was especially difficult because there is little controversy in the rabbinic tradition on the meaning of Leviticus 18:22. While it is translated in various ways, the basic meaning has always seemed pretty clear: "And with a male you shall not lie the lyings of a woman, it is an abomination." The only difficult phrase is mishkeve isha (usually parsed as "the lyings of a woman"), because the phrase appears nowhere else in the Bible. A similar phrase, the lying of a male (mishkav zachar), appears in Numbers 31:18 and is understood to mean what women experience in intercourse, i.e. penile penetration. Consequently, mishkeve isha is what men experience in intercourse, that is, penile engulfment. If so, then the verse prohibits a man from lying with a male in such a way that his penis is engulfed in the other man"s body. And where is a man penetrable? Here the rabbis make use of the fact that the word lyings is in the plural form. The lyings of a woman are plural because she may be penetrated vaginally or anally. A man, missing the vagina, is singly penetrable anally. Consequently, for millennia the tradition understood that Leviticus 18:22 prohibited anal intercourse between men and Leviticus 20:13 reiterated and punished the crime with death by stoning."

Does this quote show that male and male sex is a sin?

Here are some other sins mentioned in the old testament:

Does this also show that homosexuality is a sin?

Does that give you the right or authority to judge?

No.
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Pennington
Posts: 1,286
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4/4/2013 1:04:16 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/4/2013 12:56:44 AM, YYW wrote:
At 4/4/2013 12:43:58 AM, Pennington wrote:
"The task was especially difficult because there is little controversy in the rabbinic tradition on the meaning of Leviticus 18:22. While it is translated in various ways, the basic meaning has always seemed pretty clear: "And with a male you shall not lie the lyings of a woman, it is an abomination." The only difficult phrase is mishkeve isha (usually parsed as "the lyings of a woman"), because the phrase appears nowhere else in the Bible. A similar phrase, the lying of a male (mishkav zachar), appears in Numbers 31:18 and is understood to mean what women experience in intercourse, i.e. penile penetration. Consequently, mishkeve isha is what men experience in intercourse, that is, penile engulfment. If so, then the verse prohibits a man from lying with a male in such a way that his penis is engulfed in the other man"s body. And where is a man penetrable? Here the rabbis make use of the fact that the word lyings is in the plural form. The lyings of a woman are plural because she may be penetrated vaginally or anally. A man, missing the vagina, is singly penetrable anally. Consequently, for millennia the tradition understood that Leviticus 18:22 prohibited anal intercourse between men and Leviticus 20:13 reiterated and punished the crime with death by stoning."

Does this quote show that male and male sex is a sin?

Here are some other sins mentioned in the old testament:



Does this also show that homosexuality is a sin?

Does that give you the right or authority to judge?

No.:
Dude I am debating this and my opponent posted this for no homosexuality. I think it says that male on male homosexuality is wrong. That is what I am asking?
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Pennington
Posts: 1,286
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4/4/2013 1:05:09 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/4/2013 12:56:07 AM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 4/4/2013 12:43:58 AM, Pennington wrote:
"The task was especially difficult because there is little controversy in the rabbinic tradition on the meaning of Leviticus 18:22. While it is translated in various ways, the basic meaning has always seemed pretty clear: "And with a male you shall not lie the lyings of a woman, it is an abomination." The only difficult phrase is mishkeve isha (usually parsed as "the lyings of a woman"), because the phrase appears nowhere else in the Bible. A similar phrase, the lying of a male (mishkav zachar), appears in Numbers 31:18 and is understood to mean what women experience in intercourse, i.e. penile penetration. Consequently, mishkeve isha is what men experience in intercourse, that is, penile engulfment. If so, then the verse prohibits a man from lying with a male in such a way that his penis is engulfed in the other man"s body. And where is a man penetrable? Here the rabbis make use of the fact that the word lyings is in the plural form. The lyings of a woman are plural because she may be penetrated vaginally or anally. A man, missing the vagina, is singly penetrable anally. Consequently, for millennia the tradition understood that Leviticus 18:22 prohibited anal intercourse between men and Leviticus 20:13 reiterated and punished the crime with death by stoning."

Does this quote show that male and male sex is a sin?
Does this also show that homosexuality is a sin?

Actually, no; there are more ways to have homosexual sex than anal penetration.

Very true. But this does make male and male intercourse a sin?
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bladerunner060
Posts: 7,126
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4/4/2013 1:24:29 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/4/2013 1:05:09 AM, Pennington wrote:
At 4/4/2013 12:56:07 AM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 4/4/2013 12:43:58 AM, Pennington wrote:
"The task was especially difficult because there is little controversy in the rabbinic tradition on the meaning of Leviticus 18:22. While it is translated in various ways, the basic meaning has always seemed pretty clear: "And with a male you shall not lie the lyings of a woman, it is an abomination." The only difficult phrase is mishkeve isha (usually parsed as "the lyings of a woman"), because the phrase appears nowhere else in the Bible. A similar phrase, the lying of a male (mishkav zachar), appears in Numbers 31:18 and is understood to mean what women experience in intercourse, i.e. penile penetration. Consequently, mishkeve isha is what men experience in intercourse, that is, penile engulfment. If so, then the verse prohibits a man from lying with a male in such a way that his penis is engulfed in the other man"s body. And where is a man penetrable? Here the rabbis make use of the fact that the word lyings is in the plural form. The lyings of a woman are plural because she may be penetrated vaginally or anally. A man, missing the vagina, is singly penetrable anally. Consequently, for millennia the tradition understood that Leviticus 18:22 prohibited anal intercourse between men and Leviticus 20:13 reiterated and punished the crime with death by stoning."

Does this quote show that male and male sex is a sin?
Does this also show that homosexuality is a sin?

Actually, no; there are more ways to have homosexual sex than anal penetration.

Very true. But this does make male and male intercourse a sin?

The quotes you posted would indicate no. But I'm unsure if the argument noted in the quotes could be extended appropriately, or indeed is valid at all. Have you heard of the "Queen James Bible"?
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medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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4/4/2013 7:32:27 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/4/2013 12:43:58 AM, Pennington wrote:
"The task was especially difficult because there is little controversy in the rabbinic tradition on the meaning of Leviticus 18:22. While it is translated in various ways, the basic meaning has always seemed pretty clear: "And with a male you shall not lie the lyings of a woman, it is an abomination." The only difficult phrase is mishkeve isha (usually parsed as "the lyings of a woman"), because the phrase appears nowhere else in the Bible. A similar phrase, the lying of a male (mishkav zachar), appears in Numbers 31:18 and is understood to mean what women experience in intercourse, i.e. penile penetration. Consequently, mishkeve isha is what men experience in intercourse, that is, penile engulfment. If so, then the verse prohibits a man from lying with a male in such a way that his penis is engulfed in the other man"s body. And where is a man penetrable? Here the rabbis make use of the fact that the word lyings is in the plural form. The lyings of a woman are plural because she may be penetrated vaginally or anally. A man, missing the vagina, is singly penetrable anally. Consequently, for millennia the tradition understood that Leviticus 18:22 prohibited anal intercourse between men and Leviticus 20:13 reiterated and punished the crime with death by stoning."

Does this quote show that male and male sex is a sin?

Yes

Does this also show that homosexuality is a sin?

Yes, but in spite of the many Biblical verses that show that homosexuality is against the created order, it is unlikely that someone who is trying to protect homosexuality is going to be convinced.

Any sexual act outside of marriage, including lust in the heart, is a sin. Since marriage is only between a man and a woman, it's absurd to tell people that homosexuality is not a sin.