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Listen to the church

annanicole
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4/4/2013 7:08:03 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Well, I though I'd look into the phrase, "Listen to the church" since some seem to think it has general application to all religious subjects. It is certainly employed in that sense by Romanists when convenient, I. e. when the Roman church is teaching/practicing certain things which are otherwise indefensible. Usage of the phrase is derived from Matt 18: 15-17:

"Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican."

1. "Hear the church" is synonymous with "listen to the church"
2. Matt 18 spoken before the kingdom, the church, was established, yet Jesus is going over principles that would apply in the near-future.
3. The church was indeed established shortly thereafter in Acts 2.
4. The passage necessarily applies only to people who are already in the church, also the principle may be voluntarily adopted in other situations.
5. The entire passage concerns with an extremely specific topic: the correct course of action when one "brother" offends or trespasses against another "brother."
6. One is to "listen to" or "hear" the church only when more private methods have failed: when attempts at private resolution have failed.
7. To "treat as a publican and a heathen" means, practically, to avoid or cut-off.

Alright, we frequently hear: "Jesus said, 'Listen to the church'." Well, yeah, He did. But under what circumstance? Is it not quite a misrepresentation to try to mislead people into heeding what the church may say in all circumstances based upon this passage? The passage is extremely specific and deals with a specific situation - it's not meant to be employed as a defense of birth control or other issues in which the hierarchy of some sect pontificates its opinions, as if is opinions are somehow binding.

If I ever write a book on misused and misapplied passages, I'll be sure to include this one since it is perverted in an almost cult-like manner.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Dogknox
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4/4/2013 7:33:41 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Ignatius of Antioch "Let no one do anything of concern to the Church without the bishop. Let that be considered a valid Eucharist which is celebrated by the bishop or by one whom he ordains [i.e., a presbyter]. Wherever the bishop appears, let the people be there; just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church" (Letter to the Smyrneans"8:2 [A.D. 110])."

Ignatius of Antioch a student of the Apostle JOHN tells all...The CHURCH has BISHOPS!
Ignatius of Antioch points out the CHURCH has aValid Eucharist which all CHRISTIANS KNOW as: The Body and Blood of Jesus in the form of bread & wine!

Ignatius of Antioch a student of the Apostle JOHN tells all... "Just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church!!"

THE CHURCH.. Can only be the "Holy Catholic Church.. Peter being the first Bishop!

The Martyrdom of Polycarp
And of the elect, he was one indeed, the wonderful martyr Polycarp, who in our days was an apostolic and prophetic teacher, bishop of the Catholic Church in Smyrna. For every word that came forth from his mouth was fulfilled and will be fulfilled (Martyrdom of Polycarp 16:2 [A.D. 155]).

Polycarp is a CATHOLIC BISHOP in the CATHOLIC CHURCH!
He was a MARTYR, he is CHRISTIAN!

The Muratorian Canon
Besides these [letters of Paul] there is one to Philemon, and one to Titus, and two to Timothy, in affection and love, but nevertheless regarded as holy in the Catholic Church, in the ordering of churchly discipline. There is also one [letter] to the Laodiceans and another to the Alexandrians, forged under the name of Paul, in regard to the heresy of Marcion, and there are several others that cannot be received by the Church, for it is not suitable that gall be mixed with honey. The epistle of Jude, indeed, and the two ascribed to John are received by the Catholic Church (Muratorian fragment [A.D. 177]).

The Holy Catholic Church considered this "Muratorian Canon" when she made her BIBLE!

Tertullian
Where was [the heretic] Marcion, that shipmaster of Pontus, the zealous student of Stoicism? Where was Valentinus, the disciple of Platonism? For it is evident that those men lived not so long ago"in the reign of Antonius for the most part"and that they at first were believers in the doctrine of the Catholic Church, in the church of Rome under the episcopate of the blessed Eleutherius, until on account of their ever restless curiosity, with which they even infected the brethren, they were more than once expelled (Demurrer against the Heretics 30 [A.D. 200]).

Tertullian points out these men>> Marcion, Valentinus were removed from the ONLY CHURCH Jesus formed because they "WOULD NOT LISTEN TO THE CHURCH"!

With all the AUTHORITY of God they were declared Heretics as an heathen men!!

Only one CHURCH, One BODY, one LOAF>> One God!
The Holy BLAMELESS Catholic Church is the ONLY CHURCH Jesus formed, the ONLY Church formed by Christ, the ONLY Church in the Acts of the Apostles!!

110 A.D. "Just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church!!"

Dogknox
annanicole
Posts: 19,787
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4/4/2013 8:12:30 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I didn't even read your quotes from those uninspired men. Surely you do not hope to prove a position by quoting men that NO ONE claims were inspired. All you might prove is that some of them made the same error that you do - if the quotes are even genuine and authentic (which you can't prove, either).

The point is: the blanket use of the phrase "hear the church" or "listen to the church" as if it applies in general is a perversion of the text and a perversion of Jesus's intentions as He spoke the words. The circumstances involve accusations of wrong-doing against one "brother" by another "brother", and the action "tell it to the church" should be pursued if private resolution fails. You can see that.

Dogknox, why do you quote the passage as if it applies to circumstances and situations very, very different from the specific situation to which Jesus is referring?
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
dont-out-of-line.1
Posts: 2
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4/4/2013 12:38:15 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Merry Meet. I will not listen to your church. I am Wiccan and I do not read the bible I do not go by what you go by and I hope that you wont go all you're going to hell. I don't believe in hell. So please be kind in the words you say.
Blessed Be.
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,286
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4/4/2013 1:05:27 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
My personal favorite is the First Council of Ephesus. Cyril of Alexandria shows up early and holds the meeting before Nestorius's supporters have a chance to arrive. They understandably protest the decision, since it wasn't much of a meeting, and the Emperor sides with the Syriac church and Nestorius. Cyril then proceeds to send a mob to besiege his palace until he relents. This is the same man who had an innocent women dragged through the streets of Alexandria then skinned alive in a Church. He definitely makes my list of the most morally revolting people to ever live, and he's considered a saint, while Nestorius's ideas are rejected based on nothing but underhanded, violent, and decidedly un-Christian political power plays. And this is supposed to be divinely inspired?
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
Dogknox
Posts: 5,078
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4/4/2013 3:38:27 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Skepsikyma
The EARLY CHRISTIANS Listened to the CHURCH!
It was the "De-formers" that rejected the scriptures SIXTEEN HUNDRED YEARS After Jesus formed his One Holy BLAMELESS Catholic Church!

Skepsikyma CHRISTIANS believe the scriptures..
Ignatius of Antioch said..
"Let no one do anything of concern to the Church without the bishop. Let that be considered a valid Eucharist which is celebrated by the bishop or by one whom he ordains [i.e., a presbyter]. Wherever the bishop appears, let the people be there; just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church" (Letter to the Smyrneans"8:2 [A.D. 110])."

Ignatius of Antioch a student of the Apostle JOHN tells all...The CHURCH has BISHOPS!
Ignatius of Antioch points out the CHURCH has aValid Eucharist which all CHRISTIANS KNOW as: The Body and Blood of Jesus in the form of bread & wine!

Ignatius of Antioch a student of the Apostle JOHN tells all... "Just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church!!"
Clearly Ignatius of Antioch is CHRISTIAN..
THE CHURCH mentioned in the scriptures.. Can only be the "Holy Catholic Church".. Peter being the first Bishop!

The Martyrdom of Polycarp
And of the elect, he was one indeed, the wonderful martyr Polycarp, who in our days was an apostolic and prophetic teacher, bishop of the Catholic Church in Smyrna. For every word that came forth from his mouth was fulfilled and will be fulfilled (Martyrdom of Polycarp 16:2 [A.D. 155]).

Polycarp is a CATHOLIC BISHOP in the CATHOLIC CHURCH!
He was a MARTYR, he is CHRISTIAN!

The Muratorian Canon
Besides these [letters of Paul] there is one to Philemon, and one to Titus, and two to Timothy, in affection and love, but nevertheless regarded as holy in the Catholic Church, in the ordering of churchly discipline. There is also one [letter] to the Laodiceans and another to the Alexandrians, forged under the name of Paul, in regard to the heresy of Marcion, and there are several others that cannot be received by the Church, for it is not suitable that gall be mixed with honey. The epistle of Jude, indeed, and the two ascribed to John are received by the Catholic Church (Muratorian fragment [A.D. 177]).

The Holy Catholic Church considered this "Muratorian Canon" when she made her BIBLE!

Tertullian
Where was [the heretic] Marcion, that shipmaster of Pontus, the zealous student of Stoicism? Where was Valentinus, the disciple of Platonism? For it is evident that those men lived not so long ago"in the reign of Antonius for the most part"and that they at first were believers in the doctrine of the Catholic Church, in the church of Rome under the episcopate of the blessed Eleutherius, until on account of their ever restless curiosity, with which they even infected the brethren, they were more than once expelled (Demurrer against the Heretics 30 [A.D. 200]).

Tertullian points out these men>> Marcion, Valentinus were removed from the ONLY CHURCH Jesus formed because they "WOULD NOT LISTEN TO THE CHURCH"!

Tertullian said.. With all the AUTHORITY of God they were declared Heretics as an heathen men!!

Only one CHURCH, One BODY, one LOAF>> One God!
The Holy BLAMELESS Catholic Church is the ONLY CHURCH Jesus formed, the ONLY Church formed by Christ, the ONLY Church in the Acts of the Apostles!!

110 A.D. "Just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church!!"

Dogknox
annanicole
Posts: 19,787
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4/4/2013 8:01:37 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Dogknox, you haven't been saying "some uninspired, fallible and error-prone men said, "Listen to the church." Not at all. As a rule, when you say, "Listen to the church", you attribute the statement to JESUS. You'll say:

"Jesus said, 'Listen to the church'."

That's extremely deceptive and misleading. Certainly Jesus said it - with reference to a specific person: a member of the church who had wronged or offended another member of the church. That's it. The way you pervert the statement, you'd have us all believing that Jesus told EVERYONE that they should ALWAYS listen to the church UNDER ALL CIRCUMSTANCES! What an attempt at deception! Jesus never said that or anything close to that.

Now look at you. Faced with the fact that you totally perverted the meaning of the passage ... faced with the fact that you totally misapplied the passage - and did so on purpose ... faced with the fact that you misrepresented what Jesus said .... NOW you run as far from the scriptures as you can. Now you try to quote various document, which may or may not even be authentic or genuine, OPINIONS - mere OPINIONS - of uninspired men who happened to write what they thought people should do.

The passage, "Hear the church" or "Listen to the church" somehow just doesn't seem quite as useful to you now, but you are welcome to use it if we get to talking about some brother who has offended you and refuses to rectify the situation privately. That's when you are permitted to use it.

Watch poor Dogknox as he says on the one hand, "Christians believe the scriptures!" then, to justify his wild claims and assertions, runs just as far from the Bible as he can.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Dogknox
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4/5/2013 9:49:05 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
annanicole..Jesus said, "Listen to the church".
"Listen to the CHURCH" is written the bible!
Christians believe the scriptures.. I am Christian you are NOT!
I believe the scriptures... "Listen to the Church" is scriptures in CONTEXT the CHURCH can only be the CHURCH Jesus formed, the Church Peter shepherds!

None christians reject the scriptures.. "Scripture ALONE" teaching is NOT in the bible... I reject the teaching because I am Christian! You embrace the teaching "Scripture Alone" because you are NOT christian!

annanicole Same with "Faith Alone" this also I reject. "Faith ALONE" is not written by Jesus it is not in the bible, I reject the teaching because I am Christian.. But again you embrace "Faith ALONE" because you are NOT Christian!

"The Church is Blameless, holy, without stain".. was rejected by Martin Luther also.. He was not christian, he rejected these words of Jesus "The Church is Blameless, holy, without stain you also.. simply because, you are as your teacher, Martin Luther.. Not a Christian!!

annanicole "The CHURCH is the Pillar and the foundation of truth" was written by Jesus.. It is found in the scriptures thus I believe it.. AGAIN>> I am Christian! I believe as all Christians have always believed.. You do not.. You reject the scriptures and CHRISTIANS because tame and again you have prove to reject scriptures and what CHRISTIANS believe!
annanicole
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4/5/2013 6:23:27 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Dogknox: ""Listen to the CHURCH" is written the bible! Christians believe the scriptures.. I am Christian you are NOT!"

Anna: You aren't a Christian; you are a Catholic. And, as such, you think you have a right to just pervert any context as you please.

Question: exactly WHO did Jesus tell to "hear the church"? Huh? Everyone? C'mon now. Tell us.

*****

Dogknox: ""Faith ALONE" is not written by Jesus it is not in the bible, I reject the teaching because I am Christian.. But again you embrace "Faith ALONE" because you are NOT Christian!"

Anna: That shows how utterly deceptive you are. Have I ever one time "embraced" faith alone? I doubt it, because I don't believe it. But don't let the true get in your way, ok? Fact is: I've always maintained that baptism ... water baptism ... is necessary for the remission of sins. Always. In two years, I've never said otherwise. And what does Dogknox say? Why, he'll just lie ... flat-out lie ...and try to tell ME what I believe - all if he thinks it helps him.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Suqua
Posts: 433
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4/6/2013 5:35:36 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/4/2013 7:33:41 AM, Dogknox wrote:
Ignatius of Antioch "Let no one do anything of concern to the Church without the bishop. Let that be considered a valid Eucharist which is celebrated by the bishop or by one whom he ordains [i.e., a presbyter]. Wherever the bishop appears, let the people be there; just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church" (Letter to the Smyrneans"8:2 [A.D. 110])."

Ignatius of Antioch a student of the Apostle JOHN tells all...The CHURCH has BISHOPS!
Ignatius of Antioch points out the CHURCH has aValid Eucharist which all CHRISTIANS KNOW as: The Body and Blood of Jesus in the form of bread & wine!

Ignatius of Antioch a student of the Apostle JOHN tells all... "Just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church!!"

THE CHURCH.. Can only be the "Holy Catholic Church.. Peter being the first Bishop!

The Martyrdom of Polycarp
And of the elect, he was one indeed, the wonderful martyr Polycarp, who in our days was an apostolic and prophetic teacher, bishop of the Catholic Church in Smyrna. For every word that came forth from his mouth was fulfilled and will be fulfilled (Martyrdom of Polycarp 16:2 [A.D. 155]).

Polycarp is a CATHOLIC BISHOP in the CATHOLIC CHURCH!
He was a MARTYR, he is CHRISTIAN!


The Muratorian Canon
Besides these [letters of Paul] there is one to Philemon, and one to Titus, and two to Timothy, in affection and love, but nevertheless regarded as holy in the Catholic Church, in the ordering of churchly discipline. There is also one [letter] to the Laodiceans and another to the Alexandrians, forged under the name of Paul, in regard to the heresy of Marcion, and there are several others that cannot be received by the Church, for it is not suitable that gall be mixed with honey. The epistle of Jude, indeed, and the two ascribed to John are received by the Catholic Church (Muratorian fragment [A.D. 177]).

The Holy Catholic Church considered this "Muratorian Canon" when she made her BIBLE!

Tertullian
Where was [the heretic] Marcion, that shipmaster of Pontus, the zealous student of Stoicism? Where was Valentinus, the disciple of Platonism? For it is evident that those men lived not so long ago"in the reign of Antonius for the most part"and that they at first were believers in the doctrine of the Catholic Church, in the church of Rome under the episcopate of the blessed Eleutherius, until on account of their ever restless curiosity, with which they even infected the brethren, they were more than once expelled (Demurrer against the Heretics 30 [A.D. 200]).

Tertullian points out these men>> Marcion, Valentinus were removed from the ONLY CHURCH Jesus formed because they "WOULD NOT LISTEN TO THE CHURCH"!

With all the AUTHORITY of God they were declared Heretics as an heathen men!!

Only one CHURCH, One BODY, one LOAF>> One God!
The Holy BLAMELESS Catholic Church is the ONLY CHURCH Jesus formed, the ONLY Church formed by Christ, the ONLY Church in the Acts of the Apostles!!

110 A.D. "Just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church!!"

Dogknox

Man made religion! Still defending the lie? Father, forgive him, for he knows not what he's defending. Amen
Jack_the_lad
Posts: 10
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4/9/2013 11:21:27 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Religion is a human concept. The bible is a book of lies, myths, fables, and if anyone lives their lives by the bible they have worse morals than people who do not. You cannot get your morals from the old or new testaments.
Dogknox
Posts: 5,078
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4/10/2013 10:42:59 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/5/2013 6:23:27 PM, annanicole wrote:
Dogknox: ""Listen to the CHURCH" is written the bible! Christians believe the scriptures.. I am Christian you are NOT!"

Anna: You aren't a Christian; you are a Catholic. And, as such, you think you have a right to just pervert any context as you please.

Question: exactly WHO did Jesus tell to "hear the church"? Huh? Everyone? C'mon now. Tell us.

*****

Dogknox: ""Faith ALONE" is not written by Jesus it is not in the bible, I reject the teaching because I am Christian.. But again you embrace "Faith ALONE" because you are NOT Christian!"

Anna: That shows how utterly deceptive you are. Have I ever one time "embraced" faith alone? I doubt it, because I don't believe it. But don't let the true get in your way, ok? Fact is: I've always maintained that baptism ... water baptism ... is necessary for the remission of sins. Always. In two years, I've never said otherwise. And what does Dogknox say? Why, he'll just lie ... flat-out lie ...and try to tell ME what I believe - all if he thinks it helps him.

Scripture ALONE is NOT written in the bible! It is a man made teaching!!
You embrace this man made teaching!!

LISTEN TO THE CHURCH is the complete OPPOSITE to the teaching of "All man needs is the scriptures!!"

Jesus left the world a TEACHING CHURCH, the Church Jesus left the world would never ever teach "Man does not need to Listen to the Church"!!

Jesus said....Listen to the CHURCH or be treated as a PAGAN!!

PAGAN= All peoples outside of the body of God!

All the De-Formers and their protagy LEFT the ONLY Church Jesus formed, they left the Body of Jesus in PROTEST!
Listen to the CHURCH can only mean the Holy Catholic Church there was NO OTHER churches for 1000 years!! ALL..

All other churches, other then the Holy Catholic Church the ONLY CHURCH Peter Shepherds are formed by men who reject the words of God>> "Listen to the Church"!!

Dogknox
annanicole
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4/10/2013 8:20:06 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Dogknox, you need to deal with the question instead of blurting out rhetorical nonsense:

"Question: exactly WHO did Jesus tell to "hear the church"? Huh? Everyone? C'mon now. Tell us. WHO and under WHAT CIRCUMSTANCES?

And by the way, what did poor Dogknox say about his constant lying? NOTHING! I'll just write it off to early senility and tender the statements again: "Dogknox, why do you constantly lie and misrepresent by claiming that I follow Martin Luther's silly doctrines of 'belief, trust, reliance alone'?" Never in my life have I believed such a thing, and it would do you good to learn how to use a Greek lexicon.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Dogknox
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4/10/2013 11:28:36 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
All who believe the TEACHING of "Scriptures Alone" are the followers of Martin Luther.. Martin Luther authored the TEACHING of "Scriptures ALONE"!

UNTILL ...
Untill Martin Luther made the TEACHING of "Scriptures ALONE" (all man needs to gain salvation is the scriptures) the TEACHING was unheard of!!

The teaching of "Scriptures ALONE" first appeared sixteen hundred years AFTER Jesus! Christians reject this man made TEACHING of "Scriptures ALONE" because the teaching cannot be found in the scriptures!!!
The Teaching of "Scriptures ALONE" goes AGAINST the scriptures!!
Scriptures say... "The CHURCH is the Pillar and the foundation of truth!!"
Scriptures say.. "The CHURCH is Jesus' body"!
Scriptures say.. "Listen to the CHURCH"!

"SCriptures ALONE" is the OPPOSITE to "Listen to the CHURCH"!
Listen to the CHURCH is OPPOSITE to the man made teaching of "Scriptures ALONE"!!!
Truly the teaching of "Scriptures ALONE" divides men it sends mens souls to Satan!!
"Listen to the Church" is found in the scriptures>>> God tells all CHRISTIANS "Listen to the CHURCH"!
All who reject "Listen to the Church" for the teaching of Martin Luther REJECT the scriptures they reject God!
annanicole
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4/11/2013 7:31:40 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Dogknox missed it again:

Dogknox, you need to deal with the question instead of blurting out rhetorical nonsense:

"Question: exactly WHO did Jesus tell to "hear the church"? Huh? Everyone? C'mon now. Tell us. WHO and under WHAT CIRCUMSTANCES?

And by the way, what did poor Dogknox say about his constant lying? NOTHING! I'll just write it off to early senility and tender the statements again: "Dogknox, why do you constantly lie and misrepresent by claiming that I follow Martin Luther's silly doctrines of 'belief, trust, reliance alone'?" Never in my life have I believed such a thing, and it would do you good to learn how to use a Greek lexicon.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Dogknox
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4/11/2013 11:08:48 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Jesus formed ONE CHURCH!!!!
One and only one Church!!!

Jesus said.. "Listen to the CHURCH or be treated as Pagan"! The Church all must listen to can only be the CHURCH Jesus formed, his bride, his BODY!!
The ONLY CHURCH Jesus formed is CHRISTIAN, Christians are all who believe the scriptures!

Christians REJECT the man made TEACHING of "Scriptures ALONE" because the teaching cannot be found in the scriptures!
Martin Luther made up the teaching "Sixteen Hundred Years AFTER Jesus"!!
Martin Luther could not find any scriptures that supported his teaching of Scriptures Alone.... He knew he was rejecting the scriptures when he made his teaching. Martin Luther was warned about his rejection of Scriptures, Martin Luther was warned that all men that reject the scriptures are rejecting Jesus! Martin Luther was warned that all who reject Jesus' words "The Scriptures" are CONDEMNING themselves!

All peoples that accept Martin Luther's teaching of "Scriptures ALONE" MUST reject the words of Jesus also.. All CONDEMN themselves because they reject the words of Jesus, placing the salvation of their souls in the words of Martin Luther over the words of Jesus!

Jesus formed one CHRISTIAN CHURCH.. The Holy Catholic Church!!
ALL..
All other Churches are formed by men who accept Martin Luther over Jesus!
All who trust their salvation in "Scriptures ALONE" reject CHURCH>> Jesus' Holy Body!"
All who trust the salvation of their souls in Martin Luther' "Scriptures ALONE" reject CHURCH>> Jesus holy Bride!!
All who believe the teaching of "Scriptures are all I need" must reject SCRIPTURES... NO PLACE can Martin Luther' teaching of "Scriptures ALONE" can be found in the scriptures!
Satan gains many souls from this man made teaching!!

CHRISTIANS REJECT THE TEACHING OF "SCRIPTURES ALONE!"
Dogknox
Pennington
Posts: 1,286
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4/11/2013 12:23:49 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/11/2013 11:08:48 AM, Dogknox wrote:
The Church all must listen to can only be the CHURCH: Jesus formed, his bride, his BODY!!
Ok, I'll bite, where does it say listen to the church? Just post that scripture.
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annanicole
Posts: 19,787
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4/11/2013 12:48:50 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/11/2013 12:23:49 PM, Pennington wrote:
At 4/11/2013 11:08:48 AM, Dogknox wrote:
The Church all must listen to can only be the CHURCH: Jesus formed, his bride, his BODY!!
Ok, I'll bite, where does it say listen to the church? Just post that scripture.

This is the passage that Dogknox smatters:

"Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican."

The passage, of course, was penned before the church was established, yet it looks forward to that day - and gives a formula for resolving differences between two Christians. Dogknox thinks the Lord is saying that everybody in the world should have to give heed to the Roman Catholic Church - regardless of whatever heretical nonsense that sect may promote. Take note that, once again, the same question has been tendered to him THREE times. An easy question. Why won't Dogknox answer it? One reason alone: he is perverting the meaning of the Lord's teaching and intends to continue to do so.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Dogknox
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4/11/2013 5:37:00 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/11/2013 12:23:49 PM, Pennington wrote:
At 4/11/2013 11:08:48 AM, Dogknox wrote:
The Church all must listen to can only be the CHURCH: Jesus formed, his bride, his BODY!!
Ok, I'll bite, where does it say listen to the church? Just post that scripture.
"The Church" mentioned in Matthew 18 can only be the ONE CHURCH Jesus formed!!
There was ONLY ONE CHURCH for sixteen Hundred Years...Not Until Martin Luther rejected the scriptures and Jesus!!

From Martin Luther to today, there are now THOUSANDS of man made Churches! These Thousands of Churches are formed/founded on the belief that they have the right to interpret the scriptures, given the right by Martin Luther' teaching of "SCRIPTURES ALONE"!!
Each of these man made churches claim to have the ONLY truth but no two believe the same.. EACH..
Each claim to teach only the scriptures!!

Pennington .... All people that believe "Scriptures ALONE" teaching must reject the scriptures!

Scriptures say.. "THE CHURCH is Jesus' body.. Peter ADDED 3000 people to the CHURCH the first day of Pentecost! \he added another 2000 the next day!!

5000 people were ADDED to Jesus' holy Catholic CHURCH the first few days of Pentecost!
The CHURCH Jesus formed could not be any churches that place their trust in Martin Luther.... Martin Luther was not born for 1500 years after Pentecost!!
No CHRISTIAN accepts the teachings of Martin Luther because his teachings go against the scriptures!
His teachings cannot be found in the scriptures!

Dogknox
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4/11/2013 8:04:52 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/11/2013 7:16:20 PM, Smithereens wrote:
Manners people, Listen to the church *please*

catholicism is the Church of Satan Proof: (Mark 8:33) RSV catholic Satanic verses 1966 edition
annanicole
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4/12/2013 12:34:46 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
***** MORE EVIDENCE of "SMATTERING" *****

Dogknox: "Scriptures say.. "THE CHURCH is Jesus' body.. Peter ADDED 3000 people to the CHURCH the first day of Pentecost! \he added another 2000 the next day!!"

Question: WHO added them, Dogknox?

Dogknox: "PETER ADDED 3000 people to the CHURCH the first day of Pentecost.

Question: WHO again?

Dogknox: "PETER"

Remark: "And the Lord added to the church daily those being saved." (Acts 2: 47)

Question: WHO?

Anna: The Lord

Catholic smattering vs Bible accuracy. Take your choice. The boy can't get anything right.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
annanicole
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4/12/2013 12:44:16 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Composer:

"Let no man beguile you in any wise: for it will not be, except the falling away come first, and the man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition, he that opposeth and exalteth himself against all that is called God or that is worshipped; so that he sitteth in the temple of God, setting himself forth as God." (II Thess 2: 3-4)

Know anyone arising out of Christendom that fits that bill?

"But the Spirit saith expressly, that in later times some shall fall away from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of demons, through the hypocrisy of men that speak lies, branded in their own conscience as with a hot iron; forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats" (I Tim 4: 1-3)

"Seducing spirits ... speaking lies ... celibacy ... "fish Fridays". Sound familiar?

"he , whose coming is according to the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders" (II Thess 2: 9)

Hmmm. Fake miracles, like tears from pictures ... fake healings at Fatima? Wonder who dat be?

Question 1: To whom did these prophesies refer?

Question 2: Do these prophecies, which forecast a specific falling away with uncanny accuracy and definitely were penned prior to the fulfillment, lend any credibility to the scriptures?
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
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4/12/2013 1:26:58 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/12/2013 12:44:16 AM, annanicole wrote:
Composer:

"Let no man beguile you in any wise: for it will not be, except the falling away come first, and the man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition, he that opposeth and exalteth himself against all that is called God or that is worshipped; so that he sitteth in the temple of God, setting himself forth as God." (II Thess 2: 3-4)

Know anyone arising out of Christendom that fits that bill?

"But the Spirit saith expressly, that in later times some shall fall away from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of demons, through the hypocrisy of men that speak lies, branded in their own conscience as with a hot iron; forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats" (I Tim 4: 1-3)

"Seducing spirits ... speaking lies ... celibacy ... "fish Fridays". Sound familiar?

"he , whose coming is according to the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders" (II Thess 2: 9)

Hmmm. Fake miracles, like tears from pictures ... fake healings at Fatima? Wonder who dat be?

Question 1: To whom did these prophesies refer?

Question 2: Do these prophecies, which forecast a specific falling away with uncanny accuracy and definitely were penned prior to the fulfillment, lend any credibility to the scriptures?

I'll let Dogknox answer this one at least for now when he emerges from his current hiding place, refusing to answer YOUR repeated questions, LOL!
Dogknox
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4/12/2013 11:30:03 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/12/2013 12:44:16 AM, annanicole wrote:
Composer:

"Let no man beguile you in any wise: for it will not be, except the falling away come first, and the man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition, he that opposeth and exalteth himself against all that is called God or that is worshipped; so that he sitteth in the temple of God, setting himself forth as God." (II Thess 2: 3-4)

Know anyone arising out of Christendom that fits that bill?

"But the Spirit saith expressly, that in later times some shall fall away from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of demons, through the hypocrisy of men that speak lies, branded in their own conscience as with a hot iron; forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats" (I Tim 4: 1-3)

"Seducing spirits ... speaking lies ... celibacy ... "fish Fridays". Sound familiar?

"he , whose coming is according to the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders" (II Thess 2: 9)

Hmmm. Fake miracles, like tears from pictures ... fake healings at Fatima? Wonder who dat be?

Question 1: To whom did these prophesies refer?

Question 2: Do these prophecies, which forecast a specific falling away with uncanny accuracy and definitely were penned prior to the fulfillment, lend any credibility to the scriptures?

You quote scriptures, AS IF they are addressed to you and you have the right to quote them..
The 2 Thess you quote is addressed to THE CHURCH you reject!!! DUH!!
The "YOU" mentioned in your quote is CHRISTIANS>> Catholic' every one of them!
The "YOU" in the verse is addressed to the CHURCH Peter shepherds!
It is addressed to the CHURCH Jesus formed the CHURCH Martin Luther PROTESTED against!! DUH!!

Jesus gave his CHURCH the authority of GOD to TEACH all NATIONS! "The Great Commission"!

Peter's MESSAGE ADDED these 3000 people to Jesus' Holy CATHOLIC BODY the first day of Pentecost! ONLY....
Only those people who ACCEPTED Peters MESSAGE were ADDED to Jesus' Holy Body by Baptism!
PETER BAPTIZED THEM..
Peter' BAPTIZING them ADDED them to Jesus' Body!
Peter's MESSAGE was ACCEPTED before they were ADDED to Jesus' Holy Catholic BRIDE!
ALL....
All who did NOT accept Peter' message were NOT Baptized!
All who did not accept Peter' MESSAGE were NOT ADDED to Jesus' Holy CATHOLIC BODY!!

Annanicole...CHURCH BAPTIZES!!
CHURCH ADDS People to Jesus' Body!
Church has all of God' AUTHORITY to TEACH all nations...
CHURCH teaches"Baptism SAVES"!
Church teaches..and ADDS people to Jesus' Holy BODY!
Peter' TEACHING, Peter' MESSAGE was accepted FIRST so it was PETER/CHURCH that ADDED them! God sends the GIFT of the Holy Spirit at the Baptism!

Answer to your question #1 is very clear... Those who will fall away.. Those the Prophecy it warning about is "YOU" and all your man made PROTESTING CHURCHES!

Martin Luther Fell AWAY!! DUH
The Holy Catholic Church did not fall away from Martin Luther!!!
1 Tim 4:1-3>>> In LATER TIMES some will fall away<<<<

The Later times is the Great "De-Formation"!
The later times is the falling away sparred on by the man made teaching of "Scriptures ALONE"!
Martin Luther rejected the CHURCH!
Martin Luther fell away.. The Prophesy is addressed to YOU and all of Martin Luther' PRODAGY!!!

Answer to your question #2 is: YES the deformation of men is exactly what was Prophesies of later times can only be the falling away from the Holy Catholic Church.. The ONLY CHURCH Jesus formed!
The ONLY CHURCH Christians have always belonged to!
The ONLY CHURCH with roots back to Peter and thus Jesus!
The Prophesy can only work in one direction.. The Catholic Church did not fall away from Martin Luther!! Martin Luther was a CATHOLIC PRIEST!!

The Prophesy of 2 Peter 1-2 is just as clear... The prophesy PROVES beyond all doubt.. The "Catholic Church is The Way Of TRUTH"!
It PROVES Beyond all doubt... Martin Luther is a HERATIC!
ANNANICOLE>>>You have placed your salvation in Martin Luther and his teaching of "Scriptures ALONE"!

Run from your man made churches run for your life!!
Radar
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4/12/2013 12:29:05 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Sorry, Anna. But as much as I love God--because I love God--church and I had to go our separate ways.
annanicole
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4/12/2013 4:48:15 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Dogknox: "You quote scriptures, AS IF they are addressed to you and you have the right to quote them."

Anna: Typical brain-washed papist, eh? What RIGHT do I have to quote the scriptures? Isn't that pretty? I suppose I have every right - since the Roman Catholic Church quit BANNING them.

*****

Dogknox: "The 2 Thess you quote is addressed to THE CHURCH you reject!!! DUH!!"

Anna: Nope, it's addressed to the church of Christ at Thessalonica. That particular congregation never heard of a pope or cardinal or archbishop. Never heard of the assumption of Mary.

*****

Dogknox: "The "YOU" mentioned in your quote is CHRISTIANS>> Catholic' every one of them!"

Anna: The "you" is Christians - not Catholics. There was no Roman Catholic sect at the time. No pope. No cardinals. No archbishops. No monks. No nuns. Nothing peculiar to the popish system.

*****

Dogknox: "Jesus gave his CHURCH the authority of GOD to TEACH all NATIONS! "The Great Commission"!

Anna: No, He didn't. Not a word mentioned about any "authority to teach". Another popish pretension. Jesus Christ said HE has all authority; as such, he TOLD the disciples to teach.

*****

Dogknox: "Peter's MESSAGE ADDED these 3000 people to Jesus' Holy CATHOLIC BODY the first day of Pentecost!"

Anna: Now the smatterer has downgraded it from "Peter" to "Peter's message." Notice the Catholic error to upgrade Peter/downgrade Christ?

"And the Lord added daily to the church those being saved." (Acts 2: 47)

*****

Dogknox: "PETER BAPTIZED THEM..Peter' BAPTIZING them ADDED them to Jesus' Body!"

Anna: No, he didn't - not alone. Nothing in the text so indicates. More smattering by Dogknox.

*****

Dogknox: "Annanicole...CHURCH BAPTIZES!!"

Anna: No, it doesn't. Individual members of the church baptize.

*****

Dogknox: "CHURCH ADDS People to Jesus' Body!"

Anna: Look at the Catholic confusion! First, Peter did it. Now, the church does it. But the Bible says the Lord did it.

*****

Dogknox: "Peter' TEACHING, Peter' MESSAGE was accepted FIRST so it was PETER/CHURCH that ADDED them!"

Anna: Poor reasoning. "And the Lord added daily to the church those being saved." Why don't you just say the Lord did it - and be done with it.

*****

Dogknox: "Answer to your question #1 is very clear... Those who will fall away.. Those the Prophecy it warning about is "YOU" and all your man made PROTESTING CHURCHES! Martin Luther Fell AWAY!!"

Anna: "So that he sitteth in the temple of God, setting himself forth as God" does not seem to me to portray Luther. Luther never sat in a palace pretending to be God, did he? Luther never claimed to be THE vicar of Christ on earth, did he? No, that passage either refers to Roman emperors or the Pope. It's "very clear", alright.

*****

Dogknox: "The Holy Catholic Church did not fall away from Martin Luther!!!"

Anna: No, the Roman Catholic Church FELL AWAY from the New Testament church of Christ - and tumbled so far away that Martin Luther and many others, millions of them, LEFT the apostate body and attempted to reform Christianity.

*****

Dogknox: "1 Tim 4:1-3>>> In LATER TIMES some will fall away<<<<"

Anna: Certainly. And Paul said the "mystery of inquity" concerning that falling away DOTH NOW WORK - that is, was at work THEN, when Paul was writing. Poor Dogknox thinks the falling away didn't occur for 1500 years!

*****

Dogknox: "Answer to your question #2 is: YES the deformation of men is exactly what was Prophesies of later times can only be the falling away from the Holy Catholic Church.."

Anna: "forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats." Neither Luther nor other reformers sought to impose celibacy - but the imposition of celibacy is one mark of an apostate.

*****

Dogknox: "The Catholic Church did not fall away from Martin Luther!! Martin Luther was a CATHOLIC PRIEST!!"

Anna: The Roman Catholic church FELL away from simple New Testament Christianity. Martin Luther tried to reform it.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Dogknox
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4/13/2013 12:10:00 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
annanicole you quote scriptures... The scriptures you quote are CATHOLIC scriptures.. For Catholics!!

There was no people that accepted the teaching of Martin Luther for sixteen hundred years... Until Martin Luther there was JUST CATHOLICS!
The "You" mentioned in the scriptures you quoted are all CHRISTIANS.. Not one of the people Paul was writing to was a person that accepted the teaching of "Scriptures ALONE"!

These people, the followers of Martin Luther did not show up for sixteen hundred years! It was Martin Luther that introduced the teaching of "Scripture ALONE"! UNTIL...
Until Martin Luther, the teaching of "Scriptures ALONE" was not heard of!
ONLY CHRISTIANS could be found for sixteen hundred years!!
ALL CHRISTIANS are Catholics only Catholics were Martyred by Nero!! Not one was a Protestant not one had placed their salvation in Martin Luther and his words.. All trusted in Jesus all were CHRISTIANS!
annanicole scriptures are clear... "From AMONG Catholics will come false teachers!"

These FALSE TEACHERS will come from AMONG the CHURCH Jesus formed... Martin Luther was a Catholic Priest.. He was AMONG Catholics!
Catholic' were NOT AMONG Martin Luther PROVING...
Proving the Prophesy true, proving Martin Luther and his teaching is what God was WARNING Christians about in the Prophesy 2 Peter 2:1-2

The PROPHESY PROVES beyond all doubt.. "The Catholic Church is the Way Of Truth"!
The Prophesy PROVES beyond all doubt.. All believers of Martin Luther, all who have placed their salvation in "Scriptures ALONE" cannot be in the "Way Of Truth"!
The Prophesy PROVES true, it also proves God cannot lie!!

2 Peter 2:1 ... from among you will come false teachers.... introducing destructive heresy .... bringing the way of truth into dispute...

This PROPHESY cannot work in the reverse...
Catholic' did not come from among Martin Luther!!

Martin Luther made the teaching "Scriptures ALONE"!
This teaching is the direct reason there are the thousands and thousands of man made churches found today.. ALL men think they can interpret the scriptures correctly.. all think they have God' permission to start a body to fight against Jesus and his holy Catholic Bride.. Just as Martin Luther the heretic did!

Dogknox
annanicole
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4/13/2013 10:17:51 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Dogknox: "There was no people that accepted the teaching of Martin Luther for sixteen hundred years... "

Anna: On what subject? Plenty of people accepted certain tenets of Luther's position, especially the position of the authoritativeness of the Scriptures.

Dogknox: "Not one of the people Paul was writing to was a person that accepted the teaching of "Scriptures ALONE"!

Anna: ... that's your unproven assertion, but I can make some proven assertions: Paul never wrote to anyone who believed in a pope. He never wrote a word to anyone who heard of an archbishop or cardinal. He never wrote anything to Roman Catholic sectarians.

Dogknox: "Until Martin Luther, the teaching of "Scriptures ALONE" was not heard of!"

Anna: Wanna bet?

Dogknox: "ALL CHRISTIANS are Catholics only Catholics were Martyred by Nero!! "

Anna: Not a single Roman Catholic was martyred by Nero. That's ridiculous. Where do you get this nonsense? Nero never heard of any Roman Catholics, Greek Catholics, or any other kind of Catholics.

Dogknox: "From AMONG Catholics will come false teachers!"

Anna: Hahahaha. The scriptures COULDN'T say that - and they DON'T. Know why? Cuz the papists ARE the false teachers who FELL AWAY from the simple New Testament plan.

Dogknox: "This teaching is the direct reason there are the thousands and thousands of man made churches found today"

Anna: And the first man-made church was .... The Roman Catholic Church
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."