Total Posts:55|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

Genuine Questions for Anti-Evolutionists

JonMilne
Posts: 1,302
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/19/2013 2:58:48 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
1) Have you seriously not heard of the Lenski Affair? That proved evolution beyond a doubt and proved to be quite embarrassing for the Creationism supporting Anti-Evolution Conservapedia when Lenski smacked them down for being ignorant on science. This was well over 4 years ago. So why even despite what Lenski demonstratively found are you still claiming evolution is false?

2) Speaking of Lenski, why don't you also address this little quote from him in his letter to Conservapedia:

"From the content on your website, it is clear that you, like many others, view God as the Creator of the Universe. I respect that view. I find it baffling, however, that someone can worship God as the all-mighty Creator while, at the same time, denying even the possibility (not to mention the overwhelming evidence) that God"s Creation involved evolution. It is as though a person thinks that God must have the same limitations when it comes to creation as a person who is unable to understand, or even attempt to understand, the world in which we live. Isn"t that view insulting to God?"

3) What precisely do scientists who support the validity of the Theory of Evolution have to gain from protecting a false theory? What possible intrinsic benefit could there be for them? Surely it's the case, considering evidence of previous people who've challenged the scientific consensus on certain topics and have won (http://www.expelledexposed.com...), that it would be considerably more profitable to actually try and find something that may disprove evolution, which is why scientists do anyway when they constantly do new experiments related to evolution that they try to falsify?

4) Finally, don't you think it's the case that IF, hypothetically, the Theory of Evolution was a "hoax" as Medic among others describes it, that we'd know by now? If there's an argument against evolution that's super-duper convincing - as in GENUINELY convincing, as in free of arguments from authority, traditional beliefs, personal intuition, confirmation bias, fear/intimidation, wishful thinking, or a combination of some or all of the above - wouldn't EVERY scientist and layman know about it? Wouldn't this argument have spread rapidly, become a super-hot meme, and be all over the front pages of newspapers and websites that deal with science matters? I mean, if we managed to all know about the first ever "Simon's Cat" video within two weeks of it getting released, then don't you think that the Truly Awesomely Brilliant Definitive Argument Against Evolution would spread even faster and wider than some silly cartoon cat show?
bladerunner060
Posts: 7,126
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/19/2013 3:20:48 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Aw, dude, I had totally forgotten about Lenski!

Thanks for reminding me of good laughs (granted, at the expense of Conservapedia, which is like laughing when a Klansman's pants fall down, but still!).
Assistant moderator to airmax1227. PM me with any questions or concerns!
medv4380
Posts: 200
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/19/2013 3:29:57 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
The issue isn't actually with Evolution.

The primary issue in most, if not all, Creation vs Evolution debates is actually a false dilemma that both sides insist must be true. Creationists believe that if Evolution were true then God wouldn't exist. They cannot grasp Theistic Evolution as a valid alternative. It also doesn't help that the Evolution side that shows up for these debates also wants to argue against religion. As long as the Creationist insists on believing the false dilemma no matter of evidence shown will convince them that they are wrong because, to them, God must exist.

Creation vs Evolution is just being used as a proxy debate for Theism vs Atheism.
bladerunner060
Posts: 7,126
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/19/2013 3:35:51 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/19/2013 3:29:57 PM, medv4380 wrote:
The issue isn't actually with Evolution.

The primary issue in most, if not all, Creation vs Evolution debates is actually a false dilemma that both sides insist must be true. Creationists believe that if Evolution were true then God wouldn't exist. They cannot grasp Theistic Evolution as a valid alternative. It also doesn't help that the Evolution side that shows up for these debates also wants to argue against religion. As long as the Creationist insists on believing the false dilemma no matter of evidence shown will convince them that they are wrong because, to them, God must exist.

Creation vs Evolution is just being used as a proxy debate for Theism vs Atheism.

Eh, to a certain extent, but only because Creationists insist on their theory's truth based on the premise that God exists. It's an obvious avenue to say "Wait, our theory doesn't require this huge extra assumption, and yours does; you'll have to back that up".

Though I'm an atheist, I don't think Evolution takes a single step towards defeating Theism in general. It does takes away a gap the Godofthegappers like to shove their deity into, but that's it.
Assistant moderator to airmax1227. PM me with any questions or concerns!
AlbinoBunny
Posts: 3,781
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/19/2013 4:08:28 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
People sure do love to use "God of the gaps" an awful lot.
bladerunner060 | bsh1 , 2014! Presidency campaign!

http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org... - Running for president.
http://www.debate.org... - Running as his vice president.

May the best man win!
tkubok
Posts: 5,044
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/20/2013 3:12:14 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/19/2013 4:08:28 PM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
People sure do love to use "God of the gaps" an awful lot.

Thats because its the only way they can support their beliefs. No one wants to admit that their beliefs rely on poor evidence and arguments.
Pennington
Posts: 1,286
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/20/2013 3:57:19 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Anyone who believes in the Bible and understands it, knows that it does not agree with the evolutionary theory. You would have dodge and dance around much scripture to make such claim.
DDO Debate Champion Forum
http://www.debate.org...
Pennington
Posts: 1,286
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/20/2013 3:59:15 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/20/2013 3:12:14 AM, tkubok wrote:
At 4/19/2013 4:08:28 PM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
People sure do love to use "God of the gaps" an awful lot.

Thats because its the only way they can support their beliefs. No one wants to admit that their beliefs rely on poor evidence and arguments.

That is correct. My belief has poor physical evidence or better yet is not compatible to human investigation. I believe my Bible nevertheless.
DDO Debate Champion Forum
http://www.debate.org...
tkubok
Posts: 5,044
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/20/2013 4:08:36 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/20/2013 3:57:19 AM, Pennington wrote:
Anyone who believes in the Bible and understands it, knows that it does not agree with the evolutionary theory. You would have dodge and dance around much scripture to make such claim.

Well, the bible doesnt exactly clearly explain everything in detail. I guess you could say the devil is in the details, or lack thereof.
tkubok
Posts: 5,044
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/20/2013 4:09:05 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/20/2013 3:59:15 AM, Pennington wrote:
At 4/20/2013 3:12:14 AM, tkubok wrote:
At 4/19/2013 4:08:28 PM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
People sure do love to use "God of the gaps" an awful lot.

Thats because its the only way they can support their beliefs. No one wants to admit that their beliefs rely on poor evidence and arguments.

That is correct. My belief has poor physical evidence or better yet is not compatible to human investigation. I believe my Bible nevertheless.

So, why would you believe something based on poor evidence, or no evidence?
Pennington
Posts: 1,286
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/20/2013 4:18:05 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/20/2013 4:09:05 AM, tkubok wrote:
At 4/20/2013 3:59:15 AM, Pennington wrote:
At 4/20/2013 3:12:14 AM, tkubok wrote:
At 4/19/2013 4:08:28 PM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
People sure do love to use "God of the gaps" an awful lot.

Thats because its the only way they can support their beliefs. No one wants to admit that their beliefs rely on poor evidence and arguments.

That is correct. My belief has poor physical evidence or better yet is not compatible to human investigation. I believe my Bible nevertheless.

So, why would you believe something based on poor evidence, or no evidence?:

Because that evidence(you prefer) is not all the evidence there is and thats the problem.
DDO Debate Champion Forum
http://www.debate.org...
tmar19652
Posts: 727
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/20/2013 4:18:17 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/20/2013 4:09:05 AM, tkubok wrote:
At 4/20/2013 3:59:15 AM, Pennington wrote:
At 4/20/2013 3:12:14 AM, tkubok wrote:
At 4/19/2013 4:08:28 PM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
People sure do love to use "God of the gaps" an awful lot.

Thats because its the only way they can support their beliefs. No one wants to admit that their beliefs rely on poor evidence and arguments.

That is correct. My belief has poor physical evidence or better yet is not compatible to human investigation. I believe my Bible nevertheless.

So, why would you believe something based on poor evidence, or no evidence?
Think about it, if you were raised in the bible belt, and the whole community essentially brainwashed you to believe in a certain god or belief, you would probably be reluctant to give it up. I actually have a friend that when he told his parents that he was an atheist that they kicked him out at 20 and the community basically shunned him. He hasn't talked to his parents in 13 years because they won't answer calls from him unless he "apologizes". So this is why some religious people believe stuff without evidence.
"Politics is supposed to be the second-oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first." -Ronald Reagan

"The notion of political correctness declares certain topics, certain ex<x>pressions even certain gestures off-limits. What began as a crusade for civility has soured into a cause of conflict and even censorship." -George H.W. Bush
Pennington
Posts: 1,286
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/20/2013 4:22:04 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/20/2013 4:18:17 AM, tmar19652 wrote:
That is correct. My belief has poor physical evidence or better yet is not compatible to human investigation. I believe my Bible nevertheless.

So, why would you believe something based on poor evidence, or no evidence?
Think about it, if you were raised in the bible belt, and the whole community essentially brainwashed:
Brain washed? You speak abrubtly about things have no clue about. You do not know and foolishly make claims you could never know and then say I am delusional.
you to believe in a certain god or belief, you would probably be reluctant to give it up. I actually have a friend that when he told his parents that he was an atheist that they kicked him out at 20 and the community basically shunned him. He hasn't talked to his parents in 13 years because they won't answer calls from him unless he "apologizes". So this is why some religious people believe stuff without evidence.:
I am grown and have been Christian for 25 years. You have no idea what you are talking about. You link those accusations to religious people and clearly dismiss it when science and politics does the same thing. But, its true. Lol ok.
DDO Debate Champion Forum
http://www.debate.org...
Pennington
Posts: 1,286
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/20/2013 4:24:01 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/20/2013 4:08:36 AM, tkubok wrote:
At 4/20/2013 3:57:19 AM, Pennington wrote:
Anyone who believes in the Bible and understands it, knows that it does not agree with the evolutionary theory. You would have dodge and dance around much scripture to make such claim.

Well, the bible doesnt exactly clearly explain everything in detail. I guess you could say the devil is in the details, or lack thereof.

It is in clear enough detail to know it refers to 6 human days and god made man from the dust of the earth and formed him. Kind hard to claim billion year process there.
DDO Debate Champion Forum
http://www.debate.org...
tmar19652
Posts: 727
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/20/2013 4:24:24 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/20/2013 4:22:04 AM, Pennington wrote:
At 4/20/2013 4:18:17 AM, tmar19652 wrote:
That is correct. My belief has poor physical evidence or better yet is not compatible to human investigation. I believe my Bible nevertheless.

So, why would you believe something based on poor evidence, or no evidence?
Think about it, if you were raised in the bible belt, and the whole community essentially brainwashed:
Brain washed? You speak abrubtly about things have no clue about. You do not know and foolishly make claims you could never know and then say I am delusional.
you to believe in a certain god or belief, you would probably be reluctant to give it up. I actually have a friend that when he told his parents that he was an atheist that they kicked him out at 20 and the community basically shunned him. He hasn't talked to his parents in 13 years because they won't answer calls from him unless he "apologizes". So this is why some religious people believe stuff without evidence.:
I am grown and have been Christian for 25 years. You have no idea what you are talking about. You link those accusations to religious people and clearly dismiss it when science and politics does the same thing. But, its true. Lol ok.

You are the one who believes in creationism, so you really should not be talking!
"Politics is supposed to be the second-oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first." -Ronald Reagan

"The notion of political correctness declares certain topics, certain ex<x>pressions even certain gestures off-limits. What began as a crusade for civility has soured into a cause of conflict and even censorship." -George H.W. Bush
Pennington
Posts: 1,286
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/20/2013 4:27:41 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/20/2013 4:24:24 AM, tmar19652 wrote:
At 4/20/2013 4:22:04 AM, Pennington wrote:
At 4/20/2013 4:18:17 AM, tmar19652 wrote:
That is correct. My belief has poor physical evidence or better yet is not compatible to human investigation. I believe my Bible nevertheless.

So, why would you believe something based on poor evidence, or no evidence?
Think about it, if you were raised in the bible belt, and the whole community essentially brainwashed:
Brain washed? You speak abrubtly about things have no clue about. You do not know and foolishly make claims you could never know and then say I am delusional.
you to believe in a certain god or belief, you would probably be reluctant to give it up. I actually have a friend that when he told his parents that he was an atheist that they kicked him out at 20 and the community basically shunned him. He hasn't talked to his parents in 13 years because they won't answer calls from him unless he "apologizes". So this is why some religious people believe stuff without evidence.:
I am grown and have been Christian for 25 years. You have no idea what you are talking about. You link those accusations to religious people and clearly dismiss it when science and politics does the same thing. But, its true. Lol ok.

You are the one who believes in creationism, so you really should not be talking!:

You say that like it means anything, like you know something I do not. It may be the other way around.
DDO Debate Champion Forum
http://www.debate.org...
tkubok
Posts: 5,044
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/20/2013 4:30:33 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/20/2013 4:18:05 AM, Pennington wrote:
At 4/20/2013 4:09:05 AM, tkubok wrote:
At 4/20/2013 3:59:15 AM, Pennington wrote:
At 4/20/2013 3:12:14 AM, tkubok wrote:
At 4/19/2013 4:08:28 PM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
People sure do love to use "God of the gaps" an awful lot.

Thats because its the only way they can support their beliefs. No one wants to admit that their beliefs rely on poor evidence and arguments.

That is correct. My belief has poor physical evidence or better yet is not compatible to human investigation. I believe my Bible nevertheless.

So, why would you believe something based on poor evidence, or no evidence?:

Because that evidence(you prefer) is not all the evidence there is and thats the problem.

So youre saying that the (Nonphysical) evidence you accept is very good?
tkubok
Posts: 5,044
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/20/2013 4:32:15 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/20/2013 4:22:04 AM, Pennington wrote:
At 4/20/2013 4:18:17 AM, tmar19652 wrote:
That is correct. My belief has poor physical evidence or better yet is not compatible to human investigation. I believe my Bible nevertheless.

So, why would you believe something based on poor evidence, or no evidence?
Think about it, if you were raised in the bible belt, and the whole community essentially brainwashed:
Brain washed? You speak abrubtly about things have no clue about. You do not know and foolishly make claims you could never know and then say I am delusional.
you to believe in a certain god or belief, you would probably be reluctant to give it up. I actually have a friend that when he told his parents that he was an atheist that they kicked him out at 20 and the community basically shunned him. He hasn't talked to his parents in 13 years because they won't answer calls from him unless he "apologizes". So this is why some religious people believe stuff without evidence.:
I am grown and have been Christian for 25 years. You have no idea what you are talking about. You link those accusations to religious people and clearly dismiss it when science and politics does the same thing. But, its true. Lol ok.

Ive never heard of anyone being kicked out of their house because they refused to accept evolution. Nor have i ever seen a scientist refuse to accept something that has evidence to back it up, or reject their once held beliefs based on contrary evidence.
Pennington
Posts: 1,286
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/20/2013 4:33:22 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/20/2013 4:30:33 AM, tkubok wrote:
At 4/20/2013 4:18:05 AM, Pennington wrote:
At 4/20/2013 4:09:05 AM, tkubok wrote:
At 4/20/2013 3:59:15 AM, Pennington wrote:
At 4/20/2013 3:12:14 AM, tkubok wrote:
At 4/19/2013 4:08:28 PM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
People sure do love to use "God of the gaps" an awful lot.

Thats because its the only way they can support their beliefs. No one wants to admit that their beliefs rely on poor evidence and arguments.

That is correct. My belief has poor physical evidence or better yet is not compatible to human investigation. I believe my Bible nevertheless.

So, why would you believe something based on poor evidence, or no evidence?:

Because that evidence(you prefer) is not all the evidence there is and thats the problem.

So youre saying that the (Nonphysical) evidence you accept is very good?"

Good enough for me. I believe in science and the physical processes we use, I use them. But there are notable things outside of just the physical.
DDO Debate Champion Forum
http://www.debate.org...
tmar19652
Posts: 727
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/20/2013 4:34:56 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/20/2013 4:32:15 AM, tkubok wrote:
At 4/20/2013 4:22:04 AM, Pennington wrote:
At 4/20/2013 4:18:17 AM, tmar19652 wrote:
That is correct. My belief has poor physical evidence or better yet is not compatible to human investigation. I believe my Bible nevertheless.

So, why would you believe something based on poor evidence, or no evidence?
Think about it, if you were raised in the bible belt, and the whole community essentially brainwashed:
Brain washed? You speak abrubtly about things have no clue about. You do not know and foolishly make claims you could never know and then say I am delusional.
you to believe in a certain god or belief, you would probably be reluctant to give it up. I actually have a friend that when he told his parents that he was an atheist that they kicked him out at 20 and the community basically shunned him. He hasn't talked to his parents in 13 years because they won't answer calls from him unless he "apologizes". So this is why some religious people believe stuff without evidence.:
I am grown and have been Christian for 25 years. You have no idea what you are talking about. You link those accusations to religious people and clearly dismiss it when science and politics does the same thing. But, its true. Lol ok.

Ive never heard of anyone being kicked out of their house because they refused to accept evolution. Nor have i ever seen a scientist refuse to accept something that has evidence to back it up, or reject their once held beliefs based on contrary evidence.

I only have his side of the story, but he seems generally traumatized by the experience and he does try to make amends every once in a while, but like you, I doubt being atheist was the only reason he got kicked out. (Maybe he went so far as to try refuting YEC!)
"Politics is supposed to be the second-oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first." -Ronald Reagan

"The notion of political correctness declares certain topics, certain ex<x>pressions even certain gestures off-limits. What began as a crusade for civility has soured into a cause of conflict and even censorship." -George H.W. Bush
tmar19652
Posts: 727
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/20/2013 4:36:14 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/20/2013 4:27:41 AM, Pennington wrote:
At 4/20/2013 4:24:24 AM, tmar19652 wrote:
At 4/20/2013 4:22:04 AM, Pennington wrote:
At 4/20/2013 4:18:17 AM, tmar19652 wrote:
That is correct. My belief has poor physical evidence or better yet is not compatible to human investigation. I believe my Bible nevertheless.

So, why would you believe something based on poor evidence, or no evidence?
Think about it, if you were raised in the bible belt, and the whole community essentially brainwashed:
Brain washed? You speak abrubtly about things have no clue about. You do not know and foolishly make claims you could never know and then say I am delusional.
you to believe in a certain god or belief, you would probably be reluctant to give it up. I actually have a friend that when he told his parents that he was an atheist that they kicked him out at 20 and the community basically shunned him. He hasn't talked to his parents in 13 years because they won't answer calls from him unless he "apologizes". So this is why some religious people believe stuff without evidence.:
I am grown and have been Christian for 25 years. You have no idea what you are talking about. You link those accusations to religious people and clearly dismiss it when science and politics does the same thing. But, its true. Lol ok.

You are the one who believes in creationism, so you really should not be talking!:

You say that like it means anything, like you know something I do not. It may be the other way around.
But it isn't, because evolution has thousands of pages of scientific proof, and creationism has a 2000 years old fictional book in its corner.
"Politics is supposed to be the second-oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first." -Ronald Reagan

"The notion of political correctness declares certain topics, certain ex<x>pressions even certain gestures off-limits. What began as a crusade for civility has soured into a cause of conflict and even censorship." -George H.W. Bush
Pennington
Posts: 1,286
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/20/2013 4:38:54 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/20/2013 4:36:14 AM, tmar19652 wrote:


You say that like it means anything, like you know something I do not. It may be the other way around.
But it isn't, because evolution has thousands of pages of scientific proof,:
You say that with the hopes that scienctific proof is all there is.
and creationism has a 2000 years old fictional book in its corner.:
Not to mention widely respected scientist. Fictional? Prove that.
DDO Debate Champion Forum
http://www.debate.org...
tmar19652
Posts: 727
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/20/2013 4:40:42 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/20/2013 4:38:54 AM, Pennington wrote:
At 4/20/2013 4:36:14 AM, tmar19652 wrote:


You say that like it means anything, like you know something I do not. It may be the other way around.
But it isn't, because evolution has thousands of pages of scientific proof,:
You say that with the hopes that scienctific proof is all there is.
and creationism has a 2000 years old fictional book in its corner.:
Not to mention widely respected scientist. Fictional? Prove that.
Actually, you are saying that it is true, you have the BOP. For example, lipitor's consumers don't have to prove the drug doesn't work, lipitor has to prove it does work.
"Politics is supposed to be the second-oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first." -Ronald Reagan

"The notion of political correctness declares certain topics, certain ex<x>pressions even certain gestures off-limits. What began as a crusade for civility has soured into a cause of conflict and even censorship." -George H.W. Bush
Pennington
Posts: 1,286
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/20/2013 4:54:19 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/20/2013 4:40:42 AM, tmar19652 wrote:
At 4/20/2013 4:38:54 AM, Pennington wrote:
At 4/20/2013 4:36:14 AM, tmar19652 wrote:


You say that like it means anything, like you know something I do not. It may be the other way around.
But it isn't, because evolution has thousands of pages of scientific proof,:
You say that with the hopes that scienctific proof is all there is.
and creationism has a 2000 years old fictional book in its corner.:
Not to mention widely respected scientist. Fictional? Prove that.
Actually, you are saying that it is true, you have the BOP. For example, lipitor's consumers don't have to prove the drug doesn't work, lipitor has to prove it does work.:

Proof is a matter of interpretation. What I want to see is very different then what you want to see. I think the world as come around just fine with that belief. The believer only has to provide proof for themselves and share it when asked. Convincing others is not the objective, the individual must convince themselves by looking themselves.
DDO Debate Champion Forum
http://www.debate.org...
Composer
Posts: 5,858
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/20/2013 4:57:11 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/20/2013 4:54:19 AM, Pennington wrote:
The believer only has to provide proof for themselves and share it when asked. Convincing others is not the objective, the individual must convince themselves by looking themselves.
The mental hospitals, insane assylums & prisons are full of people who believe as do you!
Pennington
Posts: 1,286
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/20/2013 4:59:16 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/20/2013 4:57:11 AM, Composer wrote:
At 4/20/2013 4:54:19 AM, Pennington wrote:
The believer only has to provide proof for themselves and share it when asked. Convincing others is not the objective, the individual must convince themselves by looking themselves.
The mental hospitals, insane assylums & prisons are full of people who believe as do you!

Think you got that one backwards slim. Need to compare the religious verses atheistic, mental and physical health.
DDO Debate Champion Forum
http://www.debate.org...
tkubok
Posts: 5,044
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/20/2013 5:02:22 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/20/2013 4:33:22 AM, Pennington wrote:
At 4/20/2013 4:30:33 AM, tkubok wrote:
At 4/20/2013 4:18:05 AM, Pennington wrote:
At 4/20/2013 4:09:05 AM, tkubok wrote:
At 4/20/2013 3:59:15 AM, Pennington wrote:
At 4/20/2013 3:12:14 AM, tkubok wrote:
At 4/19/2013 4:08:28 PM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
People sure do love to use "God of the gaps" an awful lot.

Thats because its the only way they can support their beliefs. No one wants to admit that their beliefs rely on poor evidence and arguments.

That is correct. My belief has poor physical evidence or better yet is not compatible to human investigation. I believe my Bible nevertheless.

So, why would you believe something based on poor evidence, or no evidence?:

Because that evidence(you prefer) is not all the evidence there is and thats the problem.

So youre saying that the (Nonphysical) evidence you accept is very good?"

Good enough for me. I believe in science and the physical processes we use, I use them. But there are notable things outside of just the physical.

So how do you determine if they are good enough for you, when they arent good enough for others?
tkubok
Posts: 5,044
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/20/2013 5:04:49 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/20/2013 4:34:56 AM, tmar19652 wrote:
At 4/20/2013 4:32:15 AM, tkubok wrote:
At 4/20/2013 4:22:04 AM, Pennington wrote:
At 4/20/2013 4:18:17 AM, tmar19652 wrote:
That is correct. My belief has poor physical evidence or better yet is not compatible to human investigation. I believe my Bible nevertheless.

So, why would you believe something based on poor evidence, or no evidence?
Think about it, if you were raised in the bible belt, and the whole community essentially brainwashed:
Brain washed? You speak abrubtly about things have no clue about. You do not know and foolishly make claims you could never know and then say I am delusional.
you to believe in a certain god or belief, you would probably be reluctant to give it up. I actually have a friend that when he told his parents that he was an atheist that they kicked him out at 20 and the community basically shunned him. He hasn't talked to his parents in 13 years because they won't answer calls from him unless he "apologizes". So this is why some religious people believe stuff without evidence.:
I am grown and have been Christian for 25 years. You have no idea what you are talking about. You link those accusations to religious people and clearly dismiss it when science and politics does the same thing. But, its true. Lol ok.

Ive never heard of anyone being kicked out of their house because they refused to accept evolution. Nor have i ever seen a scientist refuse to accept something that has evidence to back it up, or reject their once held beliefs based on contrary evidence.

I only have his side of the story, but he seems generally traumatized by the experience and he does try to make amends every once in a while, but like you, I doubt being atheist was the only reason he got kicked out. (Maybe he went so far as to try refuting YEC!)

It really depends on the family. People sometimes take this religion thing too far. I mean, if this was the Phelps family, and one of their children proclaimed that he was an atheist, i have no doubt that he would probably be kicked out.
Pennington
Posts: 1,286
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/20/2013 5:05:46 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/20/2013 5:02:22 AM, tkubok wrote:
At 4/20/2013 4:33:22 AM, Pennington wrote:
At 4/20/2013 4:30:33 AM, tkubok wrote:
At 4/20/2013 4:18:05 AM, Pennington wrote:
At 4/20/2013 4:09:05 AM, tkubok wrote:
At 4/20/2013 3:59:15 AM, Pennington wrote:
At 4/20/2013 3:12:14 AM, tkubok wrote:
At 4/19/2013 4:08:28 PM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
People sure do love to use "God of the gaps" an awful lot.

Thats because its the only way they can support their beliefs. No one wants to admit that their beliefs rely on poor evidence and arguments.

That is correct. My belief has poor physical evidence or better yet is not compatible to human investigation. I believe my Bible nevertheless.

So, why would you believe something based on poor evidence, or no evidence?:

Because that evidence(you prefer) is not all the evidence there is and thats the problem.

So youre saying that the (Nonphysical) evidence you accept is very good?"

Good enough for me. I believe in science and the physical processes we use, I use them. But there are notable things outside of just the physical.

So how do you determine if they are good enough for you, when they arent good enough for others?

Well if others experienced what I have then they may or may not determine they are good enough reasons for themselves. I case history and not some kind of speculative history like big bang or evolution of species but actually history of mankinds civilizations and they lead to a story and evidence that agree with my belief.
DDO Debate Champion Forum
http://www.debate.org...
tmar19652
Posts: 727
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/20/2013 5:06:47 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/20/2013 5:04:49 AM, tkubok wrote:
At 4/20/2013 4:34:56 AM, tmar19652 wrote:
At 4/20/2013 4:32:15 AM, tkubok wrote:
At 4/20/2013 4:22:04 AM, Pennington wrote:
At 4/20/2013 4:18:17 AM, tmar19652 wrote:
That is correct. My belief has poor physical evidence or better yet is not compatible to human investigation. I believe my Bible nevertheless.

So, why would you believe something based on poor evidence, or no evidence?
Think about it, if you were raised in the bible belt, and the whole community essentially brainwashed:
Brain washed? You speak abrubtly about things have no clue about. You do not know and foolishly make claims you could never know and then say I am delusional.
you to believe in a certain god or belief, you would probably be reluctant to give it up. I actually have a friend that when he told his parents that he was an atheist that they kicked him out at 20 and the community basically shunned him. He hasn't talked to his parents in 13 years because they won't answer calls from him unless he "apologizes". So this is why some religious people believe stuff without evidence.:
I am grown and have been Christian for 25 years. You have no idea what you are talking about. You link those accusations to religious people and clearly dismiss it when science and politics does the same thing. But, its true. Lol ok.

Ive never heard of anyone being kicked out of their house because they refused to accept evolution. Nor have i ever seen a scientist refuse to accept something that has evidence to back it up, or reject their once held beliefs based on contrary evidence.

I only have his side of the story, but he seems generally traumatized by the experience and he does try to make amends every once in a while, but like you, I doubt being atheist was the only reason he got kicked out. (Maybe he went so far as to try refuting YEC!)

It really depends on the family. People sometimes take this religion thing too far. I mean, if this was the Phelps family, and one of their children proclaimed that he was an atheist, i have no doubt that he would probably be kicked out.

I would take a bet and say the WBC is just the tip of the iceberg.
"Politics is supposed to be the second-oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first." -Ronald Reagan

"The notion of political correctness declares certain topics, certain ex<x>pressions even certain gestures off-limits. What began as a crusade for civility has soured into a cause of conflict and even censorship." -George H.W. Bush