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ATHEISM , Just a new religion ?

Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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4/23/2013 4:16:22 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Despite the growing number of adherents to this new "faith" , Atheism remains a religion (considering any belief can be called a religion) with no sufficient history.

I can call it a religion also because the people who call themselves Atheists have rituals, including fighting religions, worshiping science- as if science can say anything about God except noting the work of the architect- and eventually question morality.

http://www.investigatingatheism.info...

Your fruits are welcomed!
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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4/23/2013 7:52:30 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/23/2013 4:16:22 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
Despite the growing number of adherents to this new "faith" , Atheism remains a religion (considering any belief can be called a religion) with no sufficient history.

I can call it a religion also because the people who call themselves Atheists have rituals, including fighting religions, worshiping science- as if science can say anything about God except noting the work of the architect- and eventually question morality.

http://www.investigatingatheism.info...

Your fruits are welcomed!

There's nothing about atheism that entails you fight religion and worship science, let alone even like science.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
wiploc
Posts: 1,485
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4/23/2013 2:52:43 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/23/2013 4:16:22 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
Despite the growing number of adherents to this new "faith"

It's not new. It's not a faith.

Atheism remains a religion (considering any belief can be called a religion)

It's not a religion. Anyone who isn't a theist is an atheist.

with no sufficient history.

You made that up.

I can call it a religion also because the people who call themselves Atheists have rituals,

True. I'm told that 25% of reformed Jews are atheists. And I believe that most Buddhists are atheists. So, a lot of atheists have rituals. We just don't have the same rituals.

including fighting religions,

How is that a ritual? And it certainly isn't common to all atheists. Nor is it uncommon among theists. "Kill them all, let god sort them out."

worshiping science-

Now you're just trolling.
Magic8000
Posts: 975
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4/23/2013 3:03:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/23/2013 4:16:22 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
Despite the growing number of adherents to this new "faith" , Atheism remains a religion (considering any belief can be called a religion) with no sufficient history.

I can call it a religion also because the people who call themselves Atheists have rituals, including fighting religions, worshiping science- as if science can say anything about God except noting the work of the architect- and eventually question morality.

http://www.investigatingatheism.info...

Your fruits are welcomed!

Not all atheists "fight" religion or any other of the things you listed. These are just things atheists do, unlike religion there's no obligation to do these.
404 coherent debate topic not found. Please restart the debate with clear resolution.

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drhead
Posts: 1,475
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4/23/2013 3:09:56 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/23/2013 4:16:22 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
Despite the growing number of adherents to this new "faith",
You mean 'lack of faith'?
Atheism remains a religion (considering any belief can be called a religion)
A lack of belief is not a belief.
with no sufficient history.
What does that have to do with anything? Until someone adopts a system of beliefs, they're an atheist.
I can call it a religion also because the people who call themselves Atheists have rituals,
I have rituals?
including fighting religions,
You mean fighting the stupidity commonly associated with religion.
worshiping science-
Because actually acknowledging that one answer is better than a previously accepted one is worship. I'll be right back, I'm going to go hang out with my quantum mechanics-worshipping buddies.
as if science can say anything about God except noting the work of the architect-
And until you can actually produce verifiable evidence of a god without dying in the process, it'll have no place in science, since science is about finding out known facts about the observable universe. But I guess that's too much for someone who bases their beliefs on speculation. We call that 'pseudoscience'.
and eventually question morality.
Let's see. Who is 'morally superior' out of the following:
a) someone who has to be told what is right or wrong
b) someone who is able to determine what is right or wrong on their own, without being told
http://www.investigatingatheism.info...
Remind me to never accept anything from the University of Cambridge as anything higher than the results of confirmation bias.
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"You reject religion... calling it a sickness, to what ends??? Are you a Homosexual??" - Dogknox
"For me, Evolution is a zombie theory. I mean imaginary cartoons and wishful thinking support it?" - Dragonfang
"There are no mental health benefits of atheism. It is devoid of rational thinking and mental protection." - Gabrian
Fruitytree
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4/23/2013 3:37:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
drhead:

And until you can actually produce verifiable evidence of a god without dying in the process, it'll have no place in science, since science is about finding out known facts about the observable universe. That's what I call worshiping science!
Fruitytree
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4/23/2013 3:45:50 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
The point of this is , the fact that atheism does not have a long history , proves that atheism is not comon sense. and as it is the new religion , or concept if you prefer, so it need to prove itself scientifically and philosophically.

Theism doesn't need to be proven scientifically as we pretend God is out of the reacheable universe, he can not be found and tested, but He is the logical philosophical answer to where does the cosmos come from, theism is comon sense for humans since ever, but atheism is the new concept that needs proofs.
Wallstreetatheist
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4/23/2013 3:50:48 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/23/2013 3:45:50 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
The point of this is , the fact that atheism does not have a long history , proves that atheism is not comon sense.

Non sequitur, and false. http://en.wikipedia.org...

and as it is the new religion , or concept if you prefer, so it need to prove itself scientifically and philosophically.

It's merely the lack of belief in gods.

Theism doesn't need to be proven scientifically as we pretend God is out of the reacheable universe, he can not be found and tested, but He is the logical philosophical answer to where does the cosmos come from, theism is comon sense for humans since ever, but atheism is the new concept that needs proofs.

So when the religious make positive claims about things which we have no good evidence to believe, we should accept them without questioning. But the position that makes no positive claims about the universe has to be proven scientifically and philosophically?! What kind of drugs are you on?
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drhead
Posts: 1,475
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4/23/2013 4:08:15 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/23/2013 3:45:50 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
The point of this is , the fact that atheism does not have a long history , proves that atheism is not comon sense. and as it is the new religion , or concept if you prefer, so it need to prove itself scientifically and philosophically.

Theism doesn't need to be proven scientifically as we pretend God is out of the reacheable universe, he can not be found and tested, but He is the logical philosophical answer to where does the cosmos come from, theism is comon sense for humans since ever, but atheism is the new concept that needs proofs.

Theism is a crutch. We, as humans, are afraid of what we don't know. We can't always answer every question. This is why older civilizations believed in the sun and moon being gods. We didn't know that the sun was a giant ball of hydrogen being fused into helium and giving off energy. Later on, when we discovered that the Earth isn't flat and that it orbits around the sun, we only really had one question: the origin of the universe, and of mankind. We scrapped polytheism, though still looking upon it as a set of brilliant cultural works. We moved to monotheism, since we had only a few questions to answer. Today, science is allowing us to answer those questions through our observations. Atheism is a product of those answers - with all questions answered, we are free from our crutch.
Wall of Fail

"You reject religion... calling it a sickness, to what ends??? Are you a Homosexual??" - Dogknox
"For me, Evolution is a zombie theory. I mean imaginary cartoons and wishful thinking support it?" - Dragonfang
"There are no mental health benefits of atheism. It is devoid of rational thinking and mental protection." - Gabrian
AlbinoBunny
Posts: 3,781
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4/23/2013 4:16:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I'm a religion.
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Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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4/23/2013 4:17:08 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
wallstreetatheist,

still more recent than most monotheist prophets.

well I did not specify that I meant the strong aheists who claim there is no God

I take Milorganite, they told me there are no side effects.
Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
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4/23/2013 4:26:53 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/23/2013 4:17:08 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
wallstreetatheist,

still more recent than most monotheist prophets.

Again, that is false: "Philosophical atheist thought began to appear in Europe and Asia in the sixth or fifth century BCE."
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wiploc
Posts: 1,485
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4/23/2013 4:38:02 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/23/2013 3:45:50 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
The point of this is , the fact that atheism does not have a long history

For as long as there have been people, there have been people who didn't believe in gods.
AlbinoBunny
Posts: 3,781
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4/23/2013 4:43:21 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/23/2013 4:38:02 PM, wiploc wrote:
At 4/23/2013 3:45:50 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
The point of this is , the fact that atheism does not have a long history

For as long as there have been people, there have been people who didn't believe in gods.

I don't think foxes believe in gods either.
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Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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4/23/2013 4:45:46 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
BCE is before christ isn't it ?

If it is then I'm right , there are less prophets after that than there are before that.

If BCE means something else just let me know
DakotaKrafick
Posts: 1,517
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4/23/2013 4:51:19 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/23/2013 4:16:22 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
Despite the growing number of adherents to this new "faith" , Atheism remains a religion (considering any belief can be called a religion) with no sufficient history.

I can call it a religion also because the people who call themselves Atheists have rituals, including fighting religions, worshiping science- as if science can say anything about God except noting the work of the architect- and eventually question morality.

http://www.investigatingatheism.info...

Your fruits are welcomed!

It was difficult for me to convince myself your post was even worth responding to. Regardless, here goes...

(1) Atheism is nothing "new". It's been around since before theism (leh duh).
(2) Not all atheists are anti-theists or fight against religions.
(3) Not all atheists enjoy, appreciate, understand, or believe in science.

For a fruity tree, your posts are not very fruitful. Are you sure you're not just nutty?
boss1592
Posts: 80
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4/23/2013 4:55:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Ah, an argument from the age old rhetorical style of "I know you are, but what am I?"

You know, my cousin, happens to be an atheist. She doesn't believe there's a God, that's what atheism is. She doesn't spend any time "fighting religion" and she sure as hell doesn't "worship science", in fact she hates it, she finds it very boring, just like millions of other atheists around the world. Atheism doesn't demand you do those things, atheism doesn't demand anything, because atheism is just a stance with regard to a particular issue.

And by the way, atheists fight against religion? Something you claim to be a religion is also fighting against religion? How does that work? Seems fairly self-contradictory to me, but given our previous exchanges, I would expect nothing less.

And yes, there is nothing new about atheism. Sure, it's seen a recent surge in popularity, but it's been around for centuries. But even if it was new, which is isn't, so what? Does the fact that something is new somehow discredit it? By that logic, the sun goes around the earth, because that idea predates the discovery that the earth goes around the sun.

And even if I grant that everything you've said so far is true, which it quite plainly isn't... do you have a point? Attacking atheism does nothing to rescue your own beliefs, particularly if your attacks are as weak as this one.
DakotaKrafick
Posts: 1,517
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4/23/2013 4:59:37 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/23/2013 4:45:46 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
BCE is before christ isn't it ?

If it is then I'm right , there are less prophets after that than there are before that.

If BCE means something else just let me know

How could BCE mean "Before Christ"...? What does the "E" mean then? lol

It means "Before common era".
DakotaKrafick
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4/23/2013 5:00:24 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/23/2013 4:43:21 PM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 4/23/2013 4:38:02 PM, wiploc wrote:
At 4/23/2013 3:45:50 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
The point of this is , the fact that atheism does not have a long history

For as long as there have been people, there have been people who didn't believe in gods.

I don't think foxes believe in gods either.

Agreed. Your point?
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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4/23/2013 5:28:15 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
DakotaKrafick

What is the difference, before christ era or before comon era it still the same.

for point 1) you need to provide historical evidence, not just logical evidence.

2) and 3) agreed, it was some exagerated truth, generalized on all atheists , just to bug some of you.

for the nuts , well my fruits are personalized , each one gets the right fruit for him Haha.
AlbinoBunny
Posts: 3,781
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4/23/2013 5:31:40 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/23/2013 5:00:24 PM, DakotaKrafick wrote:
At 4/23/2013 4:43:21 PM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 4/23/2013 4:38:02 PM, wiploc wrote:
At 4/23/2013 3:45:50 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
The point of this is , the fact that atheism does not have a long history

For as long as there have been people, there have been people who didn't believe in gods.

I don't think foxes believe in gods either.

Agreed. Your point?

Wiploc's fox brethren don't believe in gods. lol
bladerunner060 | bsh1 , 2014! Presidency campaign!

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http://www.debate.org... - Running for president.
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DakotaKrafick
Posts: 1,517
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4/23/2013 5:33:03 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/23/2013 5:28:15 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
DakotaKrafick

What is the difference, before christ era or before comon era it still the same.

"Christ" isn't an adjective. BC is before Christ; BCE is before common era. You asked; I answered.

for point 1) you need to provide historical evidence, not just logical evidence.

Why, you don't like logic?

2) and 3) agreed, it was some exagerated truth, generalized on all atheists , just to bug some of you.

It doesn't bug me when someone says something stupid. It just makes me realize they're stupid. No big deal; most people are.
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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4/23/2013 5:40:08 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
boss1592

Ok, just to repeat myself, I know not all atheists are strong atheists to start with, not atheism is necessarily a religion, and sorry that I included you inocent cousin in my intended generalization.

The point of the topic, is once a concept is well established, and a new concept emerges , the new has to present evidence, not the first.

you gave us a good example with the sun and earth, although this one just depends on what axis you take. but once the second idea is proven , then fine.
DakotaKrafick
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4/23/2013 5:43:27 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/23/2013 5:40:08 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
boss1592

Ok, just to repeat myself, I know not all atheists are strong atheists to start with, not atheism is necessarily a religion, and sorry that I included you inocent cousin in my intended generalization.

The point of the topic, is once a concept is well established, and a new concept emerges , the new has to present evidence, not the first.

you gave us a good example with the sun and earth, although this one just depends on what axis you take. but once the second idea is proven , then fine.

Are you being sarcastic, or...?
wiploc
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4/23/2013 5:56:51 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/23/2013 4:45:46 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
BCE is before christ isn't it ?

Before the Common Era: It doesn't depend on when Christ was born, or whether he was a real person.
wiploc
Posts: 1,485
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4/23/2013 6:01:28 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/23/2013 5:40:08 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
The point of the topic, is once a concept is well established, and a new concept emerges , the new has to present evidence, not the first.

We aren't new. Nonbelievers preceded believers.

Nor is your theory of where the burden of proof lies viable. There is no obligation to believe old things in preference to new things.
dylancatlow
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4/23/2013 6:04:12 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
" (considering any belief can be called a religion)"

The terms religion and belief are not synonymous. The former is a subset of the latter.
Dogknox
Posts: 5,072
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4/23/2013 6:06:29 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/23/2013 6:01:28 PM, wiploc wrote:
At 4/23/2013 5:40:08 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
The point of the topic, is once a concept is well established, and a new concept emerges , the new has to present evidence, not the first.

We aren't new. Nonbelievers preceded believers.

Nor is your theory of where the burden of proof lies viable. There is no obligation to believe old things in preference to new things.
wiploc you still have your FAITH you still have your BELIEF!!
You CAN NOT prove there is no God!! It is just this simple!

You BELIEVE there is NO GOD!
You have FAITH there is no God!

I am CHRISTIAN... I have FAITH, I believe the scriptures!

Dogknox