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Religious Reaction to NDE of different god

Wnope
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4/23/2013 4:12:02 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At various times I've heard Christians/Jews claim that Near Death Experiences are evidence of an afterlife and cannot be sufficiently explained by naturalistic means.

For those who believe that, how would you react if you learned the many of people who have a NDE ended up seeing Shiva or Krisna instead of Jesus or heaven?
AlbinoBunny
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4/23/2013 4:15:14 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/23/2013 4:12:02 PM, Wnope wrote:
At various times I've heard Christians/Jews claim that Near Death Experiences are evidence of an afterlife and cannot be sufficiently explained by naturalistic means.

For those who believe that, how would you react if you learned the many of people who have a NDE ended up seeing Shiva or Krisna instead of Jesus or heaven?

I saw Buddha in hell. Make of that what you will.
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philochristos
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4/23/2013 4:54:29 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/23/2013 4:12:02 PM, Wnope wrote:
At various times I've heard Christians/Jews claim that Near Death Experiences are evidence of an afterlife and cannot be sufficiently explained by naturalistic means.

For those who believe that, how would you react if you learned the many of people who have a NDE ended up seeing Shiva or Krisna instead of Jesus or heaven?

I'm not convinced that NDE are real out-of-body experiences. Very few of the stories I've heard would, if true, demonstrate that people actually leave their bodies. And the ones that would, if true, demonstrate that people leave their bodies are impossible to verify.

But let's assume, for the sake of argument, that I'm convinced some of these stories are true and that people do leave their bodies temporarily. If these people came back and reported that they saw Shiva, Krisna, or some other deity that, according to my religion, doesn't really exist, I'd have a couple of options:

1. Christianity is false, and one of these other religions is true.

2. Christianity is still true, but the person had a hallucination/dream while they were disembodied.

3. Christianity is still true, but a demon deceived them into thinking they saw a deity from another religion.

Now, I think seeing some other deity that is inconsistent with the claims of Christianity would serve as evidence against Christianity. But that evidence would have to be weighed against the evidence for Christianity. I suspect it wouldn't shake my faith in Christianity, but it might cause me to have more doubts than I'd otherwise have. After all, I've never claimed to have 100% certainty that Christianity is true.
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
DakotaKrafick
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4/23/2013 4:56:11 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/23/2013 4:12:02 PM, Wnope wrote:
At various times I've heard Christians/Jews claim that Near Death Experiences are evidence of an afterlife and cannot be sufficiently explained by naturalistic means.

For those who believe that, how would you react if you learned the many of people who have a NDE ended up seeing Shiva or Krisna instead of Jesus or heaven?

For the record, I've heard that NDEs are good evidence for an afterlife from atheists as well.
1Devilsadvocate
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4/23/2013 7:28:08 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/23/2013 4:12:02 PM, Wnope wrote:
At various times I've heard Christians/Jews claim that Near Death Experiences are evidence of an afterlife and cannot be sufficiently explained by naturalistic means.

For those who believe that, how would you react if you learned the many of people who have a NDE ended up seeing Shiva or Krisna instead of Jesus or heaven?

Fascinated.
I'd want to know, how prevalent it is, and what kind of people it occurred to?
Not all NDEs are created equally:
An NDE experienced claim by an educated & respected Atheist philosopher like A.J. Ayer, means a lot more to me than some random religious guy.
A significant factor in the credibility of an NDE to me is, does the NDE run counter to previous beliefs, if it does, it's much more significant.
Even stronger are NDE's that involve things that the person did not / could not know of before hand. For example someone who is completely ignorant of things like Shiva or Krisna, seeing them in an NDE is much more significant to me than a Christian seeing Jesus. & vise versa.
I cannot write in English, because of the treacherous spelling. When I am reading, I only hear it and am unable to remember what the written word looks like."
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Pennington
Posts: 1,286
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4/23/2013 7:30:07 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/23/2013 4:12:02 PM, Wnope wrote:
At various times I've heard Christians/Jews claim that Near Death Experiences are evidence of an afterlife and cannot be sufficiently explained by naturalistic means.

For those who believe that, how would you react if you learned the many of people who have a NDE ended up seeing Shiva or Krisna instead of Jesus or heaven?

Who claims that Krishna or Shiva or any other deity is not real?
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philochristos
Posts: 2,614
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4/23/2013 7:41:33 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/23/2013 7:30:07 PM, Pennington wrote:
At 4/23/2013 4:12:02 PM, Wnope wrote:
At various times I've heard Christians/Jews claim that Near Death Experiences are evidence of an afterlife and cannot be sufficiently explained by naturalistic means.

For those who believe that, how would you react if you learned the many of people who have a NDE ended up seeing Shiva or Krisna instead of Jesus or heaven?

Who claims that Krishna or Shiva or any other deity is not real?

o/
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
1Devilsadvocate
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4/23/2013 8:15:44 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/23/2013 7:30:07 PM, Pennington wrote:
At 4/23/2013 4:12:02 PM, Wnope wrote:
At various times I've heard Christians/Jews claim that Near Death Experiences are evidence of an afterlife and cannot be sufficiently explained by naturalistic means.

For those who believe that, how would you react if you learned the many of people who have a NDE ended up seeing Shiva or Krisna instead of Jesus or heaven?

Who claims that Krishna or Shiva or any other deity is not real?

Monotheists like Jews, Muslims, & many/most christians.
I cannot write in English, because of the treacherous spelling. When I am reading, I only hear it and am unable to remember what the written word looks like."
"Albert Einstein

http://www.twainquotes.com... , http://thewritecorner.wordpress.com... , http://www.onlinecollegecourses.com...
Pennington
Posts: 1,286
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4/23/2013 8:33:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/23/2013 8:15:44 PM, 1Devilsadvocate wrote:
At 4/23/2013 7:30:07 PM, Pennington wrote:
At 4/23/2013 4:12:02 PM, Wnope wrote:
At various times I've heard Christians/Jews claim that Near Death Experiences are evidence of an afterlife and cannot be sufficiently explained by naturalistic means.

For those who believe that, how would you react if you learned the many of people who have a NDE ended up seeing Shiva or Krisna instead of Jesus or heaven?

Who claims that Krishna or Shiva or any other deity is not real?

Monotheists like Jews, Muslims, & many/most christians.

Now I would have to look at it the way you probably do and agree with you and that statement because I know God the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are the only God. But, when I refer to other gods I am referring to something that someone else refers to as a god. I refer to these spirits as demons and/or angels. But nevertheless these spirits exist and these names like Shivra and so on are real but not gods.
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Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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4/23/2013 9:12:34 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/23/2013 8:33:39 PM, Pennington wrote:
At 4/23/2013 8:15:44 PM, 1Devilsadvocate wrote:
At 4/23/2013 7:30:07 PM, Pennington wrote:
At 4/23/2013 4:12:02 PM, Wnope wrote:
At various times I've heard Christians/Jews claim that Near Death Experiences are evidence of an afterlife and cannot be sufficiently explained by naturalistic means.

For those who believe that, how would you react if you learned the many of people who have a NDE ended up seeing Shiva or Krisna instead of Jesus or heaven?

Who claims that Krishna or Shiva or any other deity is not real?

Monotheists like Jews, Muslims, & many/most christians.

Now I would have to look at it the way you probably do and agree with you and that statement because I know God the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are the only God. But, when I refer to other gods I am referring to something that someone else refers to as a god. I refer to these spirits as demons and/or angels. But nevertheless these spirits exist and these names like Shivra and so on are real but not gods.

Your argument is that the people experiencing NDEs are simply seeing these little "demons," but I'm talking about and NDE experience of the Vedic afterlife. It would have to be some grand illusion by these demons specifically to make the afterlife appear consistent with the Vedas.

Is it that everyone whose NDE involved the Vedas was destined to hell, so they get tricked anyways? Or does God not mind demons literally manifesting an temporary false afterlife for someone that matches their life experience (i.e. a Hindu sees the Vedic afterlife)?
DakotaKrafick
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4/23/2013 10:34:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/23/2013 7:41:33 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 4/23/2013 7:30:07 PM, Pennington wrote:
At 4/23/2013 4:12:02 PM, Wnope wrote:
At various times I've heard Christians/Jews claim that Near Death Experiences are evidence of an afterlife and cannot be sufficiently explained by naturalistic means.

For those who believe that, how would you react if you learned the many of people who have a NDE ended up seeing Shiva or Krisna instead of Jesus or heaven?

Who claims that Krishna or Shiva or any other deity is not real?

o/

Is that a stick figure raising his hand?
philochristos
Posts: 2,614
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4/23/2013 11:05:24 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/23/2013 10:34:23 PM, DakotaKrafick wrote:
At 4/23/2013 7:41:33 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 4/23/2013 7:30:07 PM, Pennington wrote:
Who claims that Krishna or Shiva or any other deity is not real?

o/

Is that a stick figure raising his hand?

Yes. That's me with a little round head and a stick-shaped arm with no hand.
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
DakotaKrafick
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4/23/2013 11:11:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/23/2013 11:05:24 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 4/23/2013 10:34:23 PM, DakotaKrafick wrote:
At 4/23/2013 7:41:33 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 4/23/2013 7:30:07 PM, Pennington wrote:
Who claims that Krishna or Shiva or any other deity is not real?

o/

Is that a stick figure raising his hand?

Yes. That's me with a little round head and a stick-shaped arm with no hand.

lol that's cute.
Pennington
Posts: 1,286
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4/23/2013 11:12:27 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/23/2013 9:12:34 PM, Wnope wrote:
At 4/23/2013 8:33:39 PM, Pennington wrote:
At 4/23/2013 8:15:44 PM, 1Devilsadvocate wrote:
At 4/23/2013 7:30:07 PM, Pennington wrote:
At 4/23/2013 4:12:02 PM, Wnope wrote:
At various times I've heard Christians/Jews claim that Near Death Experiences are evidence of an afterlife and cannot be sufficiently explained by naturalistic means.

For those who believe that, how would you react if you learned the many of people who have a NDE ended up seeing Shiva or Krisna instead of Jesus or heaven?

Who claims that Krishna or Shiva or any other deity is not real?

Monotheists like Jews, Muslims, & many/most christians.

Now I would have to look at it the way you probably do and agree with you and that statement because I know God the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are the only God. But, when I refer to other gods I am referring to something that someone else refers to as a god. I refer to these spirits as demons and/or angels. But nevertheless these spirits exist and these names like Shivra and so on are real but not gods.

Your argument is that the people experiencing NDEs are simply seeing these little "demons," but I'm talking about and NDE experience of the Vedic afterlife. It would have to be some grand illusion by these demons specifically to make the afterlife appear consistent with the Vedas.

Is it that everyone whose NDE involved the Vedas was destined to hell, so they get tricked anyways? Or does God not mind demons literally manifesting an temporary false afterlife for someone that matches their life experience (i.e. a Hindu sees the Vedic afterlife)?

I never refereed to a afterlife. I do refer that whatever entity that gave them the Vedic, was created by The God and is being deceptive.
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Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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4/24/2013 12:36:58 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/23/2013 11:12:27 PM, Pennington wrote:
At 4/23/2013 9:12:34 PM, Wnope wrote:
At 4/23/2013 8:33:39 PM, Pennington wrote:
At 4/23/2013 8:15:44 PM, 1Devilsadvocate wrote:
At 4/23/2013 7:30:07 PM, Pennington wrote:
At 4/23/2013 4:12:02 PM, Wnope wrote:
At various times I've heard Christians/Jews claim that Near Death Experiences are evidence of an afterlife and cannot be sufficiently explained by naturalistic means.

For those who believe that, how would you react if you learned the many of people who have a NDE ended up seeing Shiva or Krisna instead of Jesus or heaven?

Who claims that Krishna or Shiva or any other deity is not real?

Monotheists like Jews, Muslims, & many/most christians.

Now I would have to look at it the way you probably do and agree with you and that statement because I know God the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are the only God. But, when I refer to other gods I am referring to something that someone else refers to as a god. I refer to these spirits as demons and/or angels. But nevertheless these spirits exist and these names like Shivra and so on are real but not gods.

Your argument is that the people experiencing NDEs are simply seeing these little "demons," but I'm talking about and NDE experience of the Vedic afterlife. It would have to be some grand illusion by these demons specifically to make the afterlife appear consistent with the Vedas.

Is it that everyone whose NDE involved the Vedas was destined to hell, so they get tricked anyways? Or does God not mind demons literally manifesting an temporary false afterlife for someone that matches their life experience (i.e. a Hindu sees the Vedic afterlife)?

I never refereed to a afterlife. I do refer that whatever entity that gave them the Vedic, was created by The God and is being deceptive.

NDE are about the afterlife. When I say seeing Vishnu/etc. I mean in the context of vedic heavens (cause theres a lot of them).

Although I find it interesting you prima facie label all followers of the Vedas devil worshippers (i.e. follows the words/works of a supernatural entity which deceives people about "The God").

That is, unless you wish to argue angels go around creating religions just to deceive people.
AlbinoBunny
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4/24/2013 1:52:24 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/23/2013 11:12:27 PM, Pennington wrote:
At 4/23/2013 9:12:34 PM, Wnope wrote:
At 4/23/2013 8:33:39 PM, Pennington wrote:
At 4/23/2013 8:15:44 PM, 1Devilsadvocate wrote:
At 4/23/2013 7:30:07 PM, Pennington wrote:
At 4/23/2013 4:12:02 PM, Wnope wrote:
At various times I've heard Christians/Jews claim that Near Death Experiences are evidence of an afterlife and cannot be sufficiently explained by naturalistic means.

For those who believe that, how would you react if you learned the many of people who have a NDE ended up seeing Shiva or Krisna instead of Jesus or heaven?

Who claims that Krishna or Shiva or any other deity is not real?

Monotheists like Jews, Muslims, & many/most christians.

Now I would have to look at it the way you probably do and agree with you and that statement because I know God the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are the only God. But, when I refer to other gods I am referring to something that someone else refers to as a god. I refer to these spirits as demons and/or angels. But nevertheless these spirits exist and these names like Shivra and so on are real but not gods.

Your argument is that the people experiencing NDEs are simply seeing these little "demons," but I'm talking about and NDE experience of the Vedic afterlife. It would have to be some grand illusion by these demons specifically to make the afterlife appear consistent with the Vedas.

Is it that everyone whose NDE involved the Vedas was destined to hell, so they get tricked anyways? Or does God not mind demons literally manifesting an temporary false afterlife for someone that matches their life experience (i.e. a Hindu sees the Vedic afterlife)?

I never refereed to a afterlife. I do refer that whatever entity that gave them the Vedic, was created by The God and is being deceptive.

Is Zeus also a demon?
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Fruitytree
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4/24/2013 8:27:42 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
You can't base your critics to religions based on what any religious person would make any claim that is not supported by their text revelation!

Also NDE is not trus except if the person was in her full awareness and trylly dies right then.

I have an aunt who was and still is very sick, at one ocasion that she almost died , she lost awareness ( like a sort of short coma) , and when she got back to normal (or almost), she talked about her experience, she said she met her Father and brother (both passed away ) and the path she was walking on was blocked, she said God spoke to her and that she must deliver his message, she said that he told her I am the creator , how do they try to create like me and theu can't .

well the point is maybe what she said matches with my religious believes and hers but this doesn't make her statements true or false. I wasn't there with her, and I can not witness. but it could be dream or imagination or demons like Pennigton said.