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Pre-Marital Sex

Wallstreetatheist
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4/24/2013 11:48:11 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
1. What would you do to your daughter if she had consensual, pre-marital sex?
2. If you wouldn't have her killed, flogged, or beaten, what justification do you offer for dismissing what the Bible, Quran, and Torah teach?
3. If your answer is the equivalent of "Derp, Jesus forgives if she asks for forgiveness," then why make a big deal about it when all sins are equal in the eyes of the Lord?
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Sola.Gratia
Posts: 278
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4/25/2013 12:04:46 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/24/2013 11:48:11 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
1. What would you do to your daughter if she had consensual, pre-marital sex?
2. If you wouldn't have her killed, flogged, or beaten, what justification do you offer for dismissing what the Bible, Quran, and Torah teach?
3. If your answer is the equivalent of "Derp, Jesus forgives if she asks for forgiveness," then why make a big deal about it when all sins are equal in the eyes of the Lord?

Well,.. I'm not a mother yet.. But I'd do the same thing my parents did with my sister.. If the child is brought up in the church and for so long fakes to being a Christian and then one day decided to run away to have sex with some guy she just met online an lives with him and takes part in his cult then .. Church discipline will come to play because she knew the truth an therefore I'd cut off all communications to her until she repented as is recorded in Timothy (the Bible) about church discipline.. See this would show her what she's missing.. She's missing the Church and her family at the same time.. It's not wrong for this way either it's biblical.. If you don't believe me go look for yourself.. It's hurt me as a mother to have to do that as it hurt me that my parents had to do that with my sister but if God gets Glory from it then so be it..

Sorry if you don't agree or think this is harsh.. It's Biblical. Idk what your views are on God but I believe God is the one true God there is no other.. He is and is to come.i believe the Bible to be 100% accurately inspired by God Himself to men that He chose to inspire to write it and it's truth.. So this is what I hold to as a Christian.. And as a future my what I shared above is exactly what I'd do too..
"What is sin? It is the glory of God not honored. Holiness of God not reverenced. Greatness of God not admired. Power of God not praised. Truth of God not sought. Wisdom of God not esteemed. Beauty of God not treasured. Goodness of God not savored. Faithfulness of God not trusted. Commandments of God not obeyed. Justice of God not respected. Wrath of God not feared. Grace of God not cherished. Presence of God not prized. Person of God not loved. That is sin." ~John Piper
Sui_Generis
Posts: 493
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4/25/2013 12:10:50 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/24/2013 11:48:11 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
1. What would you do to your daughter if she had consensual, pre-marital sex?

(presupposing she's professed christianity until this point, and that she is old enough that sex is a choice she made conscious of the consequences and was not manipulated into it. So a good deal past puberty.)
Confront her about it, while explaining why what she did was sin. If she was unrepentant, then I would bring her before the church government, consisting of the pastor and elders. If she is unrepentant in the face of her blatant sin, then she would be excommunicated. This means that she retains her place as our loved daughter, and as a churchgoer if she wishes (or if she doesn't wish, depending on age) but we will treat her as if she is not a believer, just as the church members would. All in an attempt to bring her back to the faith. (without implying that "backsliding" or becoming "unsaved" is possible.)

2. If you wouldn't have her killed, flogged, or beaten, what justification do you offer for dismissing what the Bible, Quran, and Torah teach?

This is not out of line with what the Bible teaches. I don't adhere to Quran or Torah teachings, as I do not consider them sacred texts. (obviously I am including the "Torah" of the Bible in with "The Bible."

3. If your answer is the equivalent of "Derp, Jesus forgives if she asks for forgiveness," then why make a big deal about it when all sins are equal in the eyes of the Lord?

It isn't, so n/a.
"Mundus vult decipi--the world wants to be deceived. The truth is too complex and frightening; the taste for the truth is an acquired taste that few acquire."
-Martin Buber, I and Thou
Sola.Gratia
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4/25/2013 12:14:53 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/25/2013 12:11:12 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
lol, is that what happened to your sister?

'( unfortunately yes... It's not a joke..
"What is sin? It is the glory of God not honored. Holiness of God not reverenced. Greatness of God not admired. Power of God not praised. Truth of God not sought. Wisdom of God not esteemed. Beauty of God not treasured. Goodness of God not savored. Faithfulness of God not trusted. Commandments of God not obeyed. Justice of God not respected. Wrath of God not feared. Grace of God not cherished. Presence of God not prized. Person of God not loved. That is sin." ~John Piper
Wallstreetatheist
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4/25/2013 12:17:38 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/25/2013 12:10:50 AM, Sui_Generis wrote:
At 4/24/2013 11:48:11 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
1. What would you do to your daughter if she had consensual, pre-marital sex?

(presupposing she's professed christianity until this point, and that she is old enough that sex is a choice she made conscious of the consequences and was not manipulated into it. So a good deal past puberty.)
Confront her about it, while explaining why what she did was sin. If she was unrepentant, then I would bring her before the church government, consisting of the pastor and elders. If she is unrepentant in the face of her blatant sin, then she would be excommunicated. This means that she retains her place as our loved daughter, and as a churchgoer if she wishes (or if she doesn't wish, depending on age) but we will treat her as if she is not a believer, just as the church members would. All in an attempt to bring her back to the faith. (without implying that "backsliding" or becoming "unsaved" is possible.)

So basically you'd treat her poorly for taking it in the vag? K.
Why does what a church government say matter? Relationships are between the believer and God, not through some puerile intermediary.

2. If you wouldn't have her killed, flogged, or beaten, what justification do you offer for dismissing what the Bible, Quran, and Torah teach?

This is not out of line with what the Bible teaches. I don't adhere to Quran or Torah teachings, as I do not consider them sacred texts. (obviously I am including the "Torah" of the Bible in with "The Bible."

Why don't you physically abuse her as the Bible commands?

3. If your answer is the equivalent of "Derp, Jesus forgives if she asks for forgiveness," then why make a big deal about it when all sins are equal in the eyes of the Lord?

It isn't, so n/a.

Read the Bible. http://www.openbible.info...
Actually it doesn't matter. Either side of nearly any position can be biblically argued.
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Wallstreetatheist
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4/25/2013 12:19:36 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/25/2013 12:14:53 AM, Sola.Gratia wrote:
At 4/25/2013 12:11:12 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
lol, is that what happened to your sister?

... :'( unfortunately yes... It's not a joke..

Do you think part of the reason she ran away to be in the "cult" (please elucidate) was that your parents held such ridiculous notions about sexual intercourse?
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Sola.Gratia
Posts: 278
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4/25/2013 12:26:51 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/25/2013 12:19:36 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 4/25/2013 12:14:53 AM, Sola.Gratia wrote:
At 4/25/2013 12:11:12 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
lol, is that what happened to your sister?

... :'( unfortunately yes... It's not a joke..

Do you think part of the reason she ran away to be in the "cult" (please elucidate) was that your parents held such ridiculous notions about sexual intercourse?

Are you suggesting that my parents are wrong for encouraging me and all of my siblings to abstain from sexual intercourse or unless it's in marriage? They are not wrong for teaching us that. And no she left because of her selfishness. An now she's with child and the guy doesn't even take care of her. What kind of a man is that? >.< that's why marriage is a plus for sexual intercourse and not being married is a negative for sexual intercourse..

A cult is basically just another religious belief that is against God of the Bible. Mormons, Muslims, Hindus , Jehovah's Witness, and etc.. She's got herself involved with a cult called black Israelites.. Tey believe that all black and Hispanics are going to heaven and all white people are going to hell.. Pretty prejudice and racial religion wouldn't ya say?
"What is sin? It is the glory of God not honored. Holiness of God not reverenced. Greatness of God not admired. Power of God not praised. Truth of God not sought. Wisdom of God not esteemed. Beauty of God not treasured. Goodness of God not savored. Faithfulness of God not trusted. Commandments of God not obeyed. Justice of God not respected. Wrath of God not feared. Grace of God not cherished. Presence of God not prized. Person of God not loved. That is sin." ~John Piper
Sui_Generis
Posts: 493
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4/25/2013 12:28:51 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/25/2013 12:17:38 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 4/25/2013 12:10:50 AM, Sui_Generis wrote:
At 4/24/2013 11:48:11 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
1. What would you do to your daughter if she had consensual, pre-marital sex?

(presupposing she's professed christianity until this point, and that she is old enough that sex is a choice she made conscious of the consequences and was not manipulated into it. So a good deal past puberty.)
Confront her about it, while explaining why what she did was sin. If she was unrepentant, then I would bring her before the church government, consisting of the pastor and elders. If she is unrepentant in the face of her blatant sin, then she would be excommunicated. This means that she retains her place as our loved daughter, and as a churchgoer if she wishes (or if she doesn't wish, depending on age) but we will treat her as if she is not a believer, just as the church members would. All in an attempt to bring her back to the faith. (without implying that "backsliding" or becoming "unsaved" is possible.)

So basically you'd treat her poorly for taking it in the vag? K.
Why does what a church government say matter? Relationships are between the believer and God, not through some puerile intermediary.

Not at all. I would love my daughters the same whether or not they were Christian. However I would not treat them the same. I wouldn't hold the same expectations, enforce some of the same rules, etc. Overarching parental principles would hold, as would my love and care.

There's a model for confronting a sinning brother in Christ presented in Matthew I think 17 or 18. In addition, there are numerous verses specifically placing responsibility of parents to raise their children in a godly manner. Further, it is the explicit responsibility of the church's elders and pastor in particular to look after the congregation. Excommunication is a legitimate consequence.

2. If you wouldn't have her killed, flogged, or beaten, what justification do you offer for dismissing what the Bible, Quran, and Torah teach?

This is not out of line with what the Bible teaches. I don't adhere to Quran or Torah teachings, as I do not consider them sacred texts. (obviously I am including the "Torah" of the Bible in with "The Bible."

Why don't you physically abuse her as the Bible commands?

I realize my phrasing was unclear, but what I meant was, I don't think the Bible taken cohesively demands that in the new covenant I physically punish her.

3. If your answer is the equivalent of "Derp, Jesus forgives if she asks for forgiveness," then why make a big deal about it when all sins are equal in the eyes of the Lord?

It isn't, so n/a.

Read the Bible. http://www.openbible.info...
Actually it doesn't matter. Either side of nearly any position can be biblically argued.

You can't convince me from the bible whether my answer is the equivalent of what you've set forth. My answer isn't, so your contingent follow up question is unanswerable. N/A.
"Mundus vult decipi--the world wants to be deceived. The truth is too complex and frightening; the taste for the truth is an acquired taste that few acquire."
-Martin Buber, I and Thou
Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
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4/25/2013 12:45:48 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/25/2013 12:26:51 AM, Sola.Gratia wrote:
At 4/25/2013 12:19:36 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 4/25/2013 12:14:53 AM, Sola.Gratia wrote:
At 4/25/2013 12:11:12 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
lol, is that what happened to your sister?

... :'( unfortunately yes... It's not a joke..

Do you think part of the reason she ran away to be in the "cult" (please elucidate) was that your parents held such ridiculous notions about sexual intercourse?

Are you suggesting that my parents are wrong for encouraging me and all of my siblings to abstain from sexual intercourse or unless it's in marriage? They are not wrong for teaching us that. And no she left because of her selfishness. An now she's with child and the guy doesn't even take care of her. What kind of a man is that? >.< that's why marriage is a plus for sexual intercourse and not being married is a negative for sexual intercourse..

I think they're wrong in the sense that they believe an ancient system of morals that advocates the death penalty for a quickie. But that doesn't necessarily mean abstinence is bad. Preaching abstinence only education is dangerous in that it leads to more STIs and unwanted pregnancies than safe sex education [http://ari.ucsf.edu...]. "The credible research sends a clear message to policy makers: if the goal of school-based sex education is to increase positive health outcomes for youth, comprehensive (or "abstinence-plus") sex education is the proven effective choice. Abstinence-only programming runs the serious risk of leaving young people, especially those at elevated risk, uninformed and alienated."

A cult is basically just another religious belief that is against God of the Bible. Mormons, Muslims, Hindus , Jehovah's Witness, and etc.. She's got herself involved with a cult called black Israelites.. Tey believe that all black and Hispanics are going to heaven and all white people are going to hell.. Pretty prejudice and racial religion wouldn't ya say?

And by that arbitrary metric your religion is considered a cult by the rest.
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Sola.Gratia
Posts: 278
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4/25/2013 1:23:59 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/25/2013 12:45:48 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 4/25/2013 12:26:51 AM, Sola.Gratia wrote:
At 4/25/2013 12:19:36 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 4/25/2013 12:14:53 AM, Sola.Gratia wrote:
At 4/25/2013 12:11:12 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
lol, is that what happened to your sister?

... :'( unfortunately yes... It's not a joke..

Do you think part of the reason she ran away to be in the "cult" (please elucidate) was that your parents held such ridiculous notions about sexual intercourse?

Are you suggesting that my parents are wrong for encouraging me and all of my siblings to abstain from sexual intercourse or unless it's in marriage? They are not wrong for teaching us that. And no she left because of her selfishness. An now she's with child and the guy doesn't even take care of her. What kind of a man is that? >.< that's why marriage is a plus for sexual intercourse and not being married is a negative for sexual intercourse..

I think they're wrong in the sense that they believe an ancient system of morals that advocates the death penalty for a quickie. But that doesn't necessarily mean abstinence is bad. Preaching abstinence only education is dangerous in that it leads to more STIs and unwanted pregnancies than safe sex education [http://ari.ucsf.edu...]. "The credible research sends a clear message to policy makers: if the goal of school-based sex education is to increase positive health outcomes for youth, comprehensive (or "abstinence-plus") sex education is the proven effective choice. Abstinence-only programming runs the serious risk of leaving young people, especially those at elevated risk, uninformed and alienated."

A cult is basically just another religious belief that is against God of the Bible. Mormons, Muslims, Hindus , Jehovah's Witness, and etc.. She's got herself involved with a cult called black Israelites.. Tey believe that all black and Hispanics are going to heaven and all white people are going to hell.. Pretty prejudice and racial religion wouldn't ya say?

And by that arbitrary metric your religion is considered a cult by the rest.

Well that's why it's called teaching your children not forcing them. I choose to be abstinent while my sister chooses to not to be. And I don't see how it's dangerous to be abstinent? It's not a bad thing. It's better because I take the thought of marriage and sex serious. It's a beautiful sacred thing and if I choose to save it then there's nothing dangerous or alienated or uninformed about it. maybe to you it is but to me it is not..

And although I don't agree with a lot on what you think or believe I have to say that yes, the other religions that I refer to as cults in fact do think the same as Christians.. But that just has to mean one is wrong and one is right doesn't it? ......... Jesus was the only man (God incarnate) that rose from the dead .. The other "gods" from the other religions can't say the same thing about their gods.. But since you do not believe why would you believe me if I tell you about Heavenly (God everything about Him) things..? Just as jesus said in John 3...
"What is sin? It is the glory of God not honored. Holiness of God not reverenced. Greatness of God not admired. Power of God not praised. Truth of God not sought. Wisdom of God not esteemed. Beauty of God not treasured. Goodness of God not savored. Faithfulness of God not trusted. Commandments of God not obeyed. Justice of God not respected. Wrath of God not feared. Grace of God not cherished. Presence of God not prized. Person of God not loved. That is sin." ~John Piper
Pennington
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4/25/2013 1:43:46 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/24/2013 11:48:11 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
1. What would you do to your daughter if she had consensual, pre-marital sex? :
How old is she suppose to be? If still living with me, ground her till she moved out.
2. If you wouldn't have her killed, flogged, or beaten, what justification do you offer for dismissing what the Bible, Quran, and Torah teach? :
You misrepresent times and understandings. Back then you were grown at 13. Therefore a child under 12 is worth whipping or such for not listening to parent. That was then and this is today. No where in the N.T. will find anything you claim.
3. If your answer is the equivalent of "Derp, Jesus forgives if she asks for forgiveness," then why make a big deal about it when all sins are equal in the eyes of the Lord?:
The falling to the temptation of sin is not the problem, we all do that. We can be forgiven and already have been. Even those who have never accepted Christ. They have not accepted it therefore have not received it. The problem is continuing to do it and not asking forgiveness. We all know the boy who cried wolf. God knows when you are crying wolf. If you are sorry you did it then you would try not to do it.
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Wallstreetatheist
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4/25/2013 1:48:16 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/25/2013 1:23:59 AM, Sola.Gratia wrote:
At 4/25/2013 12:45:48 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
I think they're wrong in the sense that they believe an ancient system of morals that advocates the death penalty for a quickie. But that doesn't necessarily mean abstinence is bad. Preaching abstinence only education is dangerous in that it leads to more STIs and unwanted pregnancies than safe sex education [http://ari.ucsf.edu...]. "The credible research sends a clear message to policy makers: if the goal of school-based sex education is to increase positive health outcomes for youth, comprehensive (or "abstinence-plus") sex education is the proven effective choice. Abstinence-only programming runs the serious risk of leaving young people, especially those at elevated risk, uninformed and alienated."

A cult is basically just another religious belief that is against God of the Bible. Mormons, Muslims, Hindus , Jehovah's Witness, and etc.. She's got herself involved with a cult called black Israelites.. Tey believe that all black and Hispanics are going to heaven and all white people are going to hell.. Pretty prejudice and racial religion wouldn't ya say?

And by that arbitrary metric your religion is considered a cult by the rest.

Well that's why it's called teaching your children not forcing them. I choose to be abstinent while my sister chooses to not to be. And I don't see how it's dangerous to be abstinent? It's not a bad thing. It's better because I take the thought of marriage and sex serious. It's a beautiful sacred thing and if I choose to save it then there's nothing dangerous or alienated or uninformed about it. maybe to you it is but to me it is not..

You misunderstood my argument. Being abstinent is great if that's what makes you happy. I only claim that teaching abstinence only education is a bad thing, because it leads to higher STI transmission levels and unwanted pregnancies due to a lack of safe sex education. Sex is a biological need, and if teenagers are left in the dark about safe sex, they will end up having it anyway without proper knowledge of how to engage in safe sex.

And although I don't agree with a lot on what you think or believe I have to say that yes, the other religions that I refer to as cults in fact do think the same as Christians.. But that just has to mean one is wrong and one is right doesn't it?

All that means is that each group has a confirmation bias [http://en.wikipedia.org...].

Jesus was the only man (God incarnate) that rose from the dead .. The other "gods" from the other religions can't say the same thing about their gods.. But since you do not believe why would you believe me if I tell you about Heavenly (God everything about Him) things..? Just as jesus said in John 3...

Here are ten figures that Christ and Christian mythology are eerily similar to [http://listverse.com...].
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Mustachero
Posts: 84
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4/25/2013 10:29:55 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/25/2013 12:26:51 AM, Sola.Gratia wrote:
At 4/25/2013 12:19:36 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 4/25/2013 12:14:53 AM, Sola.Gratia wrote:
At 4/25/2013 12:11:12 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
lol, is that what happened to your sister?

... :'( unfortunately yes... It's not a joke..

Do you think part of the reason she ran away to be in the "cult" (please elucidate) was that your parents held such ridiculous notions about sexual intercourse?

Are you suggesting that my parents are wrong for encouraging me and all of my siblings to abstain from sexual intercourse or unless it's in marriage? They are not wrong for teaching us that. And no she left because of her selfishness. An now she's with child and the guy doesn't even take care of her. What kind of a man is that? >.< that's why marriage is a plus for sexual intercourse and not being married is a negative for sexual intercourse..

A cult is basically just another religious belief that is against God of the Bible. Mormons, Muslims, Hindus , Jehovah's Witness, and etc.. She's got herself involved with a cult called black Israelites.. Tey believe that all black and Hispanics are going to heaven and all white people are going to hell.. Pretty prejudice and racial religion wouldn't ya say?

Your parents shunned their own daughter for pre-marital sex? That's some straight up Catholic sh@t right there (I was raised Catholic). Instead of making fun of the fact that you think the bible is 100% true (which would mean you think the world is flat, that if your neighbor doesn't respect sabath he should be killed, and a countless list of crazy things), I have a question. Are your parents still shunning her, or is that over? One thing about my family I can always count on is the fact that I will always be part of the flock, no matter what happens (especially something as silly as pre-marital sex).
Fruitytree
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4/25/2013 2:22:31 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
In my religion things are different,

If a girl or a boy (as they're equal for this sin and for all sins, commits fournication and there are 4 witnesses (not less) then they report him or her, then she or he is beaten 100 times by the justice representatives, but in my coutry they do not apply it.

If I know it (and there are no witnesses) then I would advise them to repent to God, and encourage them to get married. If they don't listen : if it's a boy I kick him out, if it's a girl I control her as much as possible as long as she wants to live with me.

The goal of this rulling is to avoid the vulgarism of this sin.
Wallstreetatheist
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4/28/2013 6:25:49 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/25/2013 2:22:31 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
In my religion things are different,

If a girl or a boy (as they're equal for this sin and for all sins, commits fournication and there are 4 witnesses (not less) then they report him or her, then she or he is beaten 100 times by the justice representatives, but in my coutry they do not apply it.

If I know it (and there are no witnesses) then I would advise them to repent to God, and encourage them to get married. If they don't listen : if it's a boy I kick him out, if it's a girl I control her as much as possible as long as she wants to live with me.

The goal of this rulling is to avoid the vulgarism of this sin.

What is a sin?
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tmar19652
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4/28/2013 9:25:55 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/24/2013 11:48:11 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
1. What would you do to your daughter if she had consensual, pre-marital sex?
I would probably be angry because of the pregnancy/STD risks it would carry, but I probably would not punish her to severely aside from stern talks about safe sex and other, hopefully beneficial, topics. Also, If she is older than 18, and not living in my house, then i really have no authority in the matter.
2. If you wouldn't have her killed, flogged, or beaten, what justification do you offer for dismissing what the Bible, Quran, and Torah teach?
I don't believe that 2000 year old fairy tales have significant relevance on modern society.
3. If your answer is the equivalent of "Derp, Jesus forgives if she asks for forgiveness," then why make a big deal about it when all sins are equal in the eyes of the Lord?
I really don't believe that all sins are equal, and I don't believe that the god is personal, so i'm not really sure how to answer this.
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4/28/2013 10:48:32 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/28/2013 10:45:02 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
The sin is whatever speech or action forbiden by God.

So whatever the dictator commands is wrong, is in fact wrong, no questions asked?
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Fruitytree
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4/28/2013 11:08:19 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Yes it is rediculous to ask question if he is right or not, he is not the one that is going to be questioned anyways, why be arogant when you can do nothing to help yourself ?!

But , he happens to be merciful, if one commits a sin ( and one will always commit a sin) and that one is humble and repents sincerely and asks for forgiveness, he will be forgiven ,whatever siin he commits ( except for sins where there are other people or animals involved) .

The biggest sin being associating partners to God in worship.
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4/28/2013 11:50:53 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/28/2013 11:08:19 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
Yes it is rediculous to ask question if he is right or not, he is not the one that is going to be questioned anyways, why be arogant when you can do nothing to help yourself ?!

But , he happens to be merciful, if one commits a sin ( and one will always commit a sin) and that one is humble and repents sincerely and asks for forgiveness, he will be forgiven ,whatever siin he commits ( except for sins where there are other people or animals involved) .

The biggest sin being associating partners to God in worship.

Define sin. Religious books are really subjective, for example one of my friends and I read the Quran (he read mostly) in arabic and it is really open to interpretation. Where some people justify suicide during Jihad, you could also make the point that all suicide is forbidden. The Quran doesn't forbid alcohol, it just heavily suggests not doing, same with all other intoxicants. Over time the interpretation changed and many countries adopted alcohol bans and drug bans.
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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4/28/2013 1:59:34 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Mustachero

Quran is consistent, and did not come alone, there is Hadeeth with it to explain it and confirm it ,and that is supported by quranic verses.

Suicide is forbiden in both quran and hadeeth, some "scholars" said it may be allowed for jihad purposes, but yet Jihad has rullings, and the jihad of suicide bombers that you hear of everywhere is not jihad and doesn't apply any jihad rullings. Jihad is between states, not attacking unarmed individuals by surprise!!! huh! justifying plain murder!

anyways for the suicide , still those "scholars" who suggested it is allowed exceptionally are responsible for their interpretation.

Now for alchohol, it is forbiden in Quran, Hadeeth and the consensus of the muslim scholars, so if some individuals like drinking to the point they cant understand what " ijtanibou" = avoid it , means then they are responsible for their misunderstanding.

If I ask you to avoid touch the cake on the table, and you purposely touch it and eat it , did you avoid it ?!

and you are right , not anybody understands Quran, you need to study arabic language, even any arabic speaker can't pretend to understand it, and study some religious sciences to understand how it is interpreted.

But nowadays, whoever has a mouth allows himself to interprete things bigger than himself. yes freedom of speech.
Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
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5/2/2013 1:08:32 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I was hoping for some more perverse, malicious responses than these.
DRUG HARM: http://imgur.com...
Primal Diet. Lifting. Reading. Psychedelics. Cold-Approach Pickup. Music.
DakotaKrafick
Posts: 1,517
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5/2/2013 2:00:40 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/25/2013 12:26:51 AM, Sola.Gratia wrote:
At 4/25/2013 12:19:36 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 4/25/2013 12:14:53 AM, Sola.Gratia wrote:
At 4/25/2013 12:11:12 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
lol, is that what happened to your sister?

... :'( unfortunately yes... It's not a joke..

Do you think part of the reason she ran away to be in the "cult" (please elucidate) was that your parents held such ridiculous notions about sexual intercourse?

Are you suggesting that my parents are wrong for encouraging me and all of my siblings to abstain from sexual intercourse or unless it's in marriage?

I'd say your parents were wrong in teaching you that; what of it? People should fvck to their heart's content, whether that fvcking is legally recognized by the government or not.

They are not wrong for teaching us that. And no she left because of her selfishness. An now she's with child and the guy doesn't even take care of her. What kind of a man is that? >.< that's why marriage is a plus for sexual intercourse and not being married is a negative for sexual intercourse..

I hope you realize that's a complete non-sequitur.
DakotaKrafick
Posts: 1,517
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5/2/2013 2:08:37 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/25/2013 2:22:31 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
In my religion things are different,

If a girl or a boy (as they're equal for this sin and for all sins, commits fournication and there are 4 witnesses (not less) then they report him or her, then she or he is beaten 100 times by the justice representatives, but in my coutry they do not apply it.

If I know it (and there are no witnesses) then I would advise them to repent to God, and encourage them to get married. If they don't listen : if it's a boy I kick him out, if it's a girl I control her as much as possible as long as she wants to live with me.

The goal of this rulling is to avoid the vulgarism of this sin.

Four witnesses...? To them having sex? That's some kinky sh!t right there. I approve.
johnnyboy54
Posts: 6,362
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5/2/2013 2:10:51 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/24/2013 11:48:11 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
1. What would you do to your daughter if she had consensual, pre-marital sex?
2. If you wouldn't have her killed, flogged, or beaten, what justification do you offer for dismissing what the Bible, Quran, and Torah teach?
3. If your answer is the equivalent of "Derp, Jesus forgives if she asks for forgiveness," then why make a big deal about it when all sins are equal in the eyes of the Lord?

Yawn.
I didn't order assholes with my whiskey.
12thspy
Posts: 2
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5/2/2013 5:29:53 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/24/2013 11:48:11 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
1. What would you do to your daughter if she had consensual, pre-marital sex?
2. If you wouldn't have her killed, flogged, or beaten, what justification do you offer for dismissing what the Bible, Quran, and Torah teach?
3. If your answer is the equivalent of "Derp, Jesus forgives if she asks for forgiveness," then why make a big deal about it when all sins are equal in the eyes of the Lord?

It is foolish to make claims about what any book says with out studying it first. Wallstreetatheist if you were familiar with the Bible which includes the Torah you would see that it does not teach us to flog those who sin. I would advise you read the books you are trying to criticize before challenging others on its teachings. The bible clearly teaches not to judge others, and that punishment is in Gods hands. it is not too much to ask that you understand the difference in context and what should be applied to our lives when reading old and new testaments. if you did you would never make accusations regarding the hypocrisy of Christians that do not kill their daughters. and if I had a daughter sexual abstinence is for her sake and her potential future husband there is a reason that it is a good idea. Every law in the Bible is for the benefit of the individual not for the judging of others. Christians realize that sex strengthens the cohesive bonds of intimacy in relationships. There would be much less baggage floating around if people stopped trying in vain to separate sex and intimacy.

the idea is to have sex make marriages stronger not weaker... I know novel idea right?