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The original meaning of the 10 commandments

DanT
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4/26/2013 11:12:48 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
And elohim spoke all these words, saying:

I am Yahweh thy God, who brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt have no other gods before Me.


The cult of Yahweh was originally Monolatristic. Monolatrism is when you worship only one god, but you recognize the existence of other gods. This commandment declares the Hebrew religion to be Monolatristic.

Thou shalt not make sculptures or any image, of any thing that is in the heavens above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; thou shalt not bow down unto them, nor serve them; for I Yahweh thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate Me; and showing mercy unto the thousandth generation of them that love Me and keep My commandments.

The Egyptians had the most detailed concept of the soul. Nearly all ancient religions in the Mediterranean and Middle East held a similar concepts. One concept, that was almost universal was the Sheut or Shadow. The Egyptian Sheut was similar to the Hebrew Rephaim, or shades. The Rephaim were dead ancestors that reside in Sheol.

While the Sheut were associated with death, and were often considered servants of Anubis, the living also had Sheuts. The Sheut served as the incorporeal body of the Ba, or soul, which could go places the body could not. The Ba was always close to the Sheut. Statues and other images of Pharaohs and Gods were sometimes called their Sheut, and were believed to contain part of their Sheut. While they contained part of their Sheut, they did not necessarily contain their Ba. The Egyptian priests would sometimes invoke the gods to draw their Ba to the Sheut of their statues, so they could be in the presence of the Gods.

This is not only a commandment about worshiping the idols of other gods, but also idols of Yahweh . It is also a prohibition against worshiping the idols of humans and animals. Imagine if you saved a city from a terrorist attack, and instead of thanking you, they thank a statue of you. Your image or Sheut did not save the day, you or your Ba saved the day.

This is a two fold commandment; the first was against creating statues, in order to be in the presence of the gods, and the second was praising the Sheut instead of the Ba.

Thou shalt not take the name of Yahweh thy God in vain; for Yahweh will not hold him guiltless that taketh His name in vain

This is associated with the previous commandment. Another Egyptian concept of the soul was the Ren or name. Egyptians tended to use nicknames, and kept their real names secret. They would often have naming ceremonies due to its importance. If you knew someone's Ren, you could control their Ba, by invoking their name. You could also curse their Ba, by cursing their name.

The commandment to not take God's name in vain, means don't invoke god for unimportant or pointless reasons. For example; don't ask god to help you win the lottery.

Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work; but the seventh day is a sabbath unto Yahweh thy God, in it thou shalt not do any manner of work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy man-servant, nor thy maid-servant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; for in six days Yahweh made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested on the seventh day; wherefore Yahweh blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

This one is common knowledge.

Honor thy father and thy mother, that thy days may be long upon the land which Yahweh thy God giveth thee.

Remember how I said the Rephaim were the dead ancestors in Sheol? The Hebrew people use to believe their ancestors or Rephaim, played an essential role in securing blessings for their living descendants. By honoring your ancestors, you ensure that you live a long and healthy life.

Thou shalt not murder. Thou shalt not commit adultery. Thou shalt not steal. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's house; thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife, nor his man-servant, nor his maid-servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor any thing that is thy neighbor's.

These are pretty much self explanatory as well
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
annanicole
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4/27/2013 1:57:54 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
"The cult of Yahweh was originally Monolatristic. Monolatrism is when you worship only one god, but you recognize the existence of other gods."

They didn't recognize the existence of other gods. They recognized that certain people and cultures paid homage to other gods - other dieties - that did not even exist. In other words, they took note of the erroneous view, not the actual existence of other gods.

You say: "This is a two fold commandment; the first was against creating statues, in order to be in the presence of the gods, and the second was praising the Sheut instead of the Ba."

It was a commandment against creating statues or images of God - and of worshiping such images. I see nothing regarding the "Sheut" or the "Ba".

You say: "By honoring your ancestors, you ensure that you live a long and healthy life."

I do not see that in the command. Some of my ancestors might not be worth honoring, and not a day will be added to my life by paying homage to them. The passage relates to one's parents only.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Fruitytree
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4/27/2013 7:13:20 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
The comandment about not worshiping other than God, doesn't mean there are other Gods who are worth of worship , but that none is worth of worship besides God, whatever that person or thing does or represents for you.

The word God is confusing too, It doesn't always mean the creator, so the man is a God or lord in his houshold, the boss is a God in his company, but those are not worthy of worship, we must and can only worship God the creator.

For Idols or statutes, some people used to make them to remember the works of some great men, the generations after them took the statutes as idols and start worshiping them and made them associated to God the creator.

So I'm not sure what you mean by there can be more than a god ? If yes there would be false Gods , not true ones.
annanicole
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4/27/2013 7:34:11 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Yeah, I didn't understand that.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
DanT
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4/27/2013 2:43:06 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/27/2013 1:57:54 AM, annanicole wrote:
"The cult of Yahweh was originally Monolatristic. Monolatrism is when you worship only one god, but you recognize the existence of other gods."

They didn't recognize the existence of other gods. They recognized that certain people and cultures paid homage to other gods - other dieties - that did not even exist. In other words, they took note of the erroneous view, not the actual existence of other gods.

There is allot of historical evidence that suggests the Israelites believed in multiple gods prior to the Babylonian exile.
You say: "This is a two fold commandment; the first was against creating statues, in order to be in the presence of the gods, and the second was praising the Sheut instead of the Ba."

It was a commandment against creating statues or images of God - and of worshiping such images. I see nothing regarding the "Sheut" or the "Ba".

I was giving context. Moses was part of the royal family of Egypt, and thus was well educated in their religion by the Egyptian priests. The Egyptian religion was influenced by some of the same Mesopotamian religions that gave rise to the cult of Yahweh.
You say: "By honoring your ancestors, you ensure that you live a long and healthy life."

I do not see that in the command. Some of my ancestors might not be worth honoring, and not a day will be added to my life by paying homage to them.
You are ignoring the context. If you don't honor them, you don't gain the benefits of honoring them.
The passage relates to one's parents only.

Not true. The Hebrew word for father also means ancestor. The mother was also important because Matrilineality determined if one was Hebrew. Likewise, Egypt, the heart (another concept of the soul), was inherited from the mother. When the bible says, God is in your heart, it is making reference to this concept. The incorporeal concept of the heart, in regards to emotion, stems from Egyptian beliefs.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
Zetsubou
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4/27/2013 3:33:14 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
The second (arguably first) commandment doesn't explicitly declare that there is one God. The terminology, non habebis deos alienos coram me, you have no Gods before me, implies others. That's why we have the title: Dominus Deus. So, the existence of other beings is at least implied. The debate rather is if this refers to a real/material entity or merely the heretical idea of a another god.

This interpretation is a subject of opinion, because the bible never explicitly says: I am the only God. It says: I am the only legitimate God. So the question: are there any other Gods? (sola scriptura) Remains unanswered.

So DanT, I wholly agree with your insights, my only reservation is that you use the title "God" too lightly. I prefer the use of deity as opposed to God. Literally, the translation follows: Elohim -> Deo -> God. My concern lies the fact English doesn't have the noun-verb infection of Hebrew so the meanings derived from an irregularly inflected verb are lost (see pluralis excellentiae). Giving the title God to all deities, in English, gives them grammatical equality. To retain that difference one should ration the use of the title God to references to the God.

You've also reminded me, the tradition of a "true name" seems to have died out in contemporary religion/folk legend; it only finds place in fiction. The last reference in western practice being in the Grimm German folktale Rumpelstiltskin.
'sup DDO -- july 2013
annanicole
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4/27/2013 5:05:11 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
"There is allot of historical evidence that suggests the Israelites believed in multiple gods prior to the Babylonian exile."

I was not aware of this - not saying it's not true or possibly true. There are certain sections of the Bible (chronologically) that I have not studied as much as others in the OT. Could you give me the books - or point me in that direction?
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
annanicole
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4/27/2013 5:06:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
"Not true. The Hebrew word for father also means ancestor. The mother was also important because Matrilineality determined if one was Hebrew. Likewise, Egypt, the heart (another concept of the soul), was inherited from the mother. When the bible says, God is in your heart, it is making reference to this concept. The incorporeal concept of the heart, in regards to emotion, stems from Egyptian beliefs."

I'm not so sure about any of that. Again, do you have the references?
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Zetsubou
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4/27/2013 5:29:35 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/27/2013 5:06:38 PM, annanicole wrote:
"Not true. The Hebrew word for father also means ancestor. The mother was also important because Matrilineality determined if one was Hebrew. Likewise, Egypt, the heart (another concept of the soul), was inherited from the mother. When the bible says, God is in your heart, it is making reference to this concept. The incorporeal concept of the heart, in regards to emotion, stems from Egyptian beliefs."

I'm not so sure about any of that. Again, do you have the references?
Av/ab, father, is the also shortform of the Hebrew: av kad'mon, ancestor/forefather.
As for definition by matrilinity, that may be found all over the Hebrew Torah, in the Bible we have it under Leviticus 24:10 and Deuteronomy 7:1-5.
As for heart, lev/leb, were ever you find the word heart in both the NT and OT, it refers to the person as a whole or spirit, for instance take Genesis 8:21, after the Great Flood.

-----
As for the monolatry, refer to instances when the Lord refers to any other God but he - see the nominative commandments: I am the Lord your God who has taken you out of Egypt, you will have no Gods before me.
'sup DDO -- july 2013
DanT
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4/27/2013 6:42:57 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/27/2013 5:05:11 PM, annanicole wrote:
"There is allot of historical evidence that suggests the Israelites believed in multiple gods prior to the Babylonian exile."

I was not aware of this - not saying it's not true or possibly true. There are certain sections of the Bible (chronologically) that I have not studied as much as others in the OT. Could you give me the books - or point me in that direction?

Here is a ink from Nova: http://www.pbs.org...
In his book, the Evolution of God, Robert Wright states "early Israelites were polytheistic , monolateralist, before their eventual monotheism."
http://williamhaywriter.blogspot.com...

According to David Cooper "Current non-Orthodox Jewish scholarship is that we were not monotheists prior the reign of King Josiah who undertook a religious reformation that enforced the ban on worshiping foreign gods that had previously been observed in the breach. Before Josiah we were monolateralists who believed other gods existed but they were all subordinate to our God."
http://novapsyche.dreamwidth.org...

According to the Social Science department at the Gulf Coast Community College, "The spiritual perspective of the Hebrews evolved over time. Early Israelites probably worshiped many gods, including nature spirits dwelling in trees and rocks. For some Israelites, Yahweh was the chief god of Israel, but many, including kings of Israel and Judah, worshiped other gods as well. It was among the Babylonian exiles in the sixth century B.C. that Yahweh"the God of Israel"came to be seen as the only God. After the return of these exiles to Judah, their point of view eventually became dominant, and pure monotheism, or the belief that there is only one God for all peoples, came to be the major tenet of Judaism"
http://socsci.gulfcoast.edu...

Here is a site where the webmaster pulls from the old testament, to show monolateralism.
https://sites.google.com...
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
annanicole
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4/27/2013 6:48:16 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I am referring to Biblical sources. If the Israelites believed in multiple gods at this point, the Bible will state or allude to it.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
DanT
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4/27/2013 7:07:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/27/2013 5:06:38 PM, annanicole wrote:
"Not true. The Hebrew word for father also means ancestor. The mother was also important because Matrilineality determined if one was Hebrew. Likewise, Egypt, the heart (another concept of the soul), was inherited from the mother. When the bible says, God is in your heart, it is making reference to this concept. The incorporeal concept of the heart, in regards to emotion, stems from Egyptian beliefs."

I'm not so sure about any of that. Again, do you have the references?

Matrilineality is found throughout the old testament, the first reference being Deuteronomy 7:3"4
"You shall not intermarry with them; you shall not give your daughter to his son, and you shall not take his daughter for your son, for he will cause your child to turn away from Me, and they will worship the gods of others".

"The essence of a Jew is his Jewish soul, his Jewish identity. This is inherited from the mother. His tribe"a revelation or projection, the way his Judaism is practiced and actualized"is begotten from the father."
http://www.chabad.org...

As for the incorporeal heart, which the Egyptians believed was the part of the soul responsible for emotions and thought, here are some passages;

"The counsel of Yahweh standeth for ever, the thoughts of His heart to all generations. Happy is the nation whose God is Yahweh; the people whom He hath chosen for His own inheritance." ~ Psalms 33:11-12

"And Yahweh saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And it repented Yahweh that He had made man on the earth, and it grieved Him at His heart. And Yahweh said: 'I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and creeping thing, and fowl of the air; for it repenteth Me that I have made them.'" ~ Genesis 6:5-7
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
DanT
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4/27/2013 7:36:15 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/27/2013 6:48:16 PM, annanicole wrote:
I am referring to Biblical sources. If the Israelites believed in multiple gods at this point, the Bible will state or allude to it.

"And God (elohim) said: 'Let us make man in our image, after our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.' "

"O give thanks unto Yahweh, for He is good, for His mercy endureth for ever. O give thanks unto the God (elohay) of gods (elohim), for His mercy endureth for ever." ~ Psalms 135:1-2

"Psalm of Asaph.
God standeth in the congregation of Gods; in the midst of the judges He judgeth:

'How long will ye judge unjustly, and respect the persons of the wicked Selah
Judge the poor and fatherless; do justice to the afflicted and destitute. Rescue the poor and needy; deliver them out of the hand of the wicked. They know not, neither do they understand; they go about in darkness; all the foundations of the earth are moved.
I said: Ye are Gods, sons of the Most High. Nevertheless ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.'

Arise, O God, judge the earth; for Thou shalt possess all the nations. " ~ Psalms 82
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
1Devilsadvocate
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4/28/2013 2:21:14 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/26/2013 11:12:48 PM, DanT wrote:
And elohim spoke all these words, saying:

I am Yahweh thy God, who brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt have no other gods before Me.



The cult of Yahweh was originally Monolatristic. Monolatrism is when you worship only one god, but you recognize the existence of other gods. This commandment declares the Hebrew religion to be Monolatristic.

I'm not familiar with this term, Monolatristic / Monolatrism, and surprisingly I could not find it in any dictionary or encyclopedia, but I think I get what you're saying.
What you latter quoted from David Cooper is more accurate.
" monolateralists who believed other gods existed but they were all subordinate to our God ."

My only issue with this is that it isn't really accurate to call them "Gods".

"God is a supreme being and principal object of faith. [1]" - Wikipedia.

Now this being is not supreme, not the principal object of faith, and not the creator of the universe.

It is in an entirely different class from Yahawah, and is more of a pseudo god.

Indeed many orthodox Jews still believe that some sort of other "gods", I.E. Spiritual/supernatural beings/forces with some sort of limited powers, exist that are subordinate to God. The sin of idol worship is going through these "intermediaries", as opposed to going straight to god himself.
I cannot write in English, because of the treacherous spelling. When I am reading, I only hear it and am unable to remember what the written word looks like."
"Albert Einstein

http://www.twainquotes.com... , http://thewritecorner.wordpress.com... , http://www.onlinecollegecourses.com...
DanT
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4/28/2013 8:56:56 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
According to the Oxford dictionary

(n) god (a superhuman being or spirit worshipped as having power over nature or human fortunes; a deity)

(n) deity (divine status, quality, or nature)
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
annanicole
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4/28/2013 10:01:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I suppose someone could believe that there are many - or a few - gods, but only one real God, the superior God. Or something like that. It seems to me that the Biblical evidence of such is pretty flimsy: so many of the Biblical passages cited in support of such a concept are explained away very easily without any appeals to figures of speech. Certainly there are many "gods" - money, sex, fame, forture. No one is denying that. But the concept of a zillion "little" eternal beings, but only one "bigboy" eternal being is kinda far-fetched.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
stubs
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4/28/2013 10:22:00 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/28/2013 10:01:54 PM, annanicole wrote:
I suppose someone could believe that there are many - or a few - gods, but only one real God, the superior God. Or something like that. It seems to me that the Biblical evidence of such is pretty flimsy: so many of the Biblical passages cited in support of such a concept are explained away very easily without any appeals to figures of speech. Certainly there are many "gods" - money, sex, fame, forture. No one is denying that. But the concept of a zillion "little" eternal beings, but only one "bigboy" eternal being is kinda far-fetched.

I actually think there is good biblical evidence for that especially in the OT. I have finals coming up until Wednesday so I may not be able to post any support until then but I will try and get to it as soon as I can unless someone else posts the same stuff I would have then I'll just let them talk ha
stubs
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4/28/2013 10:45:36 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
In Gen. when God says, "Let us make man in our image" there are three main theories:
- Trinity
- Majestic Plural
- Divine Courtroom Scene

I personally think the last option is the best, but I'm not totally sold on it or anything. I won't really get into the reasons for that though.

The way I like to explain this monolatry that seems to be evident is that there is one big G God (YHWH) and lots of little g gods.

First let's look at Duet 33:8. The NIV reads as follows:

"When the Most Hight gave the nations their inheritance, when he divided all mankind, he set up boundaries for the peoples according to the number of the sons of Israel*."

Seems clear enough and nothing controversial at all... but wait. What does the footnote say?

"Masoretic Text; Dead Sea Scrolls (see also Septuagint) sons of God."

So the Masoretic text, dead sea scrolls, and the Septuagint all say sons of God and yet the NIV translates it sons of Israel? Seems a little strange right?

Also in Gen 6 there are mentions of these little g gods breeding with humans.

I don't really feel the need to do a full exegesis on both of these passages nor do I have the time do. I definitely wouldn't say the amount of evidences I posted should convince you of this, but I think it is sufficient enough to keep you from saying that the idea is "far-fetched" as many OT scholars actually hold to this view. Take some time and study these verses and come to your own conclusion.

God bless!
1Devilsadvocate
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4/29/2013 12:05:04 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/28/2013 8:56:56 PM, DanT wrote:
According to the Oxford dictionary

(n) god (a superhuman being or spirit worshipped as having power over nature or human fortunes; a deity)

(n) deity (divine status, quality, or nature)

Definition of God
noun
1 [without article] (in Christianity and other monotheistic religions) the creator and ruler of the universe and source of all moral authority; the supreme being.
http://oxforddictionaries.com...

My point is that they are entirely different beings, and thus some distinction should be made. In the bible they are refered to as "אלהים אחרים".
I cannot write in English, because of the treacherous spelling. When I am reading, I only hear it and am unable to remember what the written word looks like."
"Albert Einstein

http://www.twainquotes.com... , http://thewritecorner.wordpress.com... , http://www.onlinecollegecourses.com...
DanT
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4/29/2013 12:22:55 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/29/2013 12:05:04 PM, 1Devilsadvocate wrote:
At 4/28/2013 8:56:56 PM, DanT wrote:
According to the Oxford dictionary

(n) god (a superhuman being or spirit worshipped as having power over nature or human fortunes; a deity)

(n) deity (divine status, quality, or nature)

Definition of God
noun
1 [without article] (in Christianity and other monotheistic religions) the creator and ruler of the universe and source of all moral authority; the supreme being.
http://oxforddictionaries.com...

My point is that they are entirely different beings, and thus some distinction should be made. In the bible they are refered to as "אלהים אחרים".

That's in monotheistic religions Monolateralism is a form of Polytheism
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
DanT
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4/29/2013 12:30:47 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/28/2013 10:45:36 PM, stubs wrote:

Also in Gen 6 there are mentions of these little g gods breeding with humans.

I don't really feel the need to do a full exegesis on both of these passages nor do I have the time do. I definitely wouldn't say the amount of evidences I posted should convince you of this, but I think it is sufficient enough to keep you from saying that the idea is "far-fetched" as many OT scholars actually hold to this view. Take some time and study these verses and come to your own conclusion.

God bless!

"The Nephilim were in the earth in those days, and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bore children to them; the same were the mighty men that were of old, the men of renown.
And Yahweh saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
And it repented Yahweh that He had made man on the earth, and it grieved Him at His heart. " ~ Genesis 6:4-6
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
stubs
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4/29/2013 3:15:46 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/29/2013 12:30:47 PM, DanT wrote:
At 4/28/2013 10:45:36 PM, stubs wrote:

Also in Gen 6 there are mentions of these little g gods breeding with humans.

I don't really feel the need to do a full exegesis on both of these passages nor do I have the time do. I definitely wouldn't say the amount of evidences I posted should convince you of this, but I think it is sufficient enough to keep you from saying that the idea is "far-fetched" as many OT scholars actually hold to this view. Take some time and study these verses and come to your own conclusion.

God bless!

"The Nephilim were in the earth in those days, and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bore children to them; the same were the mighty men that were of old, the men of renown.
And Yahweh saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
And it repented Yahweh that He had made man on the earth, and it grieved Him at His heart. " ~ Genesis 6:4-6

Yes that is what I was referring to
1Devilsadvocate
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4/30/2013 2:24:17 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/29/2013 12:22:55 PM, DanT wrote:
At 4/29/2013 12:05:04 PM, 1Devilsadvocate wrote:
At 4/28/2013 8:56:56 PM, DanT wrote:
According to the Oxford dictionary

(n) god (a superhuman being or spirit worshipped as having power over nature or human fortunes; a deity)

(n) deity (divine status, quality, or nature)

Definition of God
noun
1 [without article] (in Christianity and other monotheistic religions) the creator and ruler of the universe and source of all moral authority; the supreme being.
http://oxforddictionaries.com...

My point is that they are entirely different beings, and thus some distinction should be made. In the bible they are refered to as "אלהים אחרים".

That's in monotheistic religions Monolateralism is a form of Polytheism

All I'm saying is that a distinction should be made between Yahweh God and other subordinate forces/beings.

You wrote:
"Monolatrism is when you worship only one god, but you recognize the existence of other gods. This commandment declares the Hebrew religion to be Monolatristic."

By simply using the same word "God", it implies that the Hebrew religion believed that there were many beings like the one they serve & that Yahweh is one of many.

They are 2 very different beings, some distinction should be made (especially when discussing them together), rather than using the same word for both, when in fact two entirely different beings are being discussed.

That is and always has been a fundamental belief of Judaism, there is no one like Yahweh. As I've said, Orthodox Jews still do believe that there are spiritual beings that are subordinate to God.
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Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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4/30/2013 3:50:13 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
You are taking Judaism for an inovation, evolustion from polytheism to monotheism!!

But it is a religion based on revelation, in which polytheism was never tolerated.

And Moses, peace be upon him,never worshiped any body besides YHWH! if He did God wouldn't have looked at him in the first place.
Suqua
Posts: 433
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5/1/2013 12:18:43 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/26/2013 11:12:48 PM, DanT wrote:
And elohim spoke all these words, saying:

I am Yahweh thy God, who brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt have no other gods before Me.



The cult of Yahweh was originally Monolatristic. Monolatrism is when you worship only one god, but you recognize the existence of other gods. This commandment declares the Hebrew religion to be Monolatristic.


Thou shalt not make sculptures or any image, of any thing that is in the heavens above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; thou shalt not bow down unto them, nor serve them; for I Yahweh thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate Me; and showing mercy unto the thousandth generation of them that love Me and keep My commandments.

The Egyptians had the most detailed concept of the soul. Nearly all ancient religions in the Mediterranean and Middle East held a similar concepts. One concept, that was almost universal was the Sheut or Shadow. The Egyptian Sheut was similar to the Hebrew Rephaim, or shades. The Rephaim were dead ancestors that reside in Sheol.

While the Sheut were associated with death, and were often considered servants of Anubis, the living also had Sheuts. The Sheut served as the incorporeal body of the Ba, or soul, which could go places the body could not. The Ba was always close to the Sheut. Statues and other images of Pharaohs and Gods were sometimes called their Sheut, and were believed to contain part of their Sheut. While they contained part of their Sheut, they did not necessarily contain their Ba. The Egyptian priests would sometimes invoke the gods to draw their Ba to the Sheut of their statues, so they could be in the presence of the Gods.


This is not only a commandment about worshiping the idols of other gods, but also idols of Yahweh . It is also a prohibition against worshiping the idols of humans and animals. Imagine if you saved a city from a terrorist attack, and instead of thanking you, they thank a statue of you. Your image or Sheut did not save the day, you or your Ba saved the day.

This is a two fold commandment; the first was against creating statues, in order to be in the presence of the gods, and the second was praising the Sheut instead of the Ba.

Thou shalt not take the name of Yahweh thy God in vain; for Yahweh will not hold him guiltless that taketh His name in vain

This is associated with the previous commandment. Another Egyptian concept of the soul was the Ren or name. Egyptians tended to use nicknames, and kept their real names secret. They would often have naming ceremonies due to its importance. If you knew someone's Ren, you could control their Ba, by invoking their name. You could also curse their Ba, by cursing their name.

The commandment to not take God's name in vain, means don't invoke god for unimportant or pointless reasons. For example; don't ask god to help you win the lottery.


Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work; but the seventh day is a sabbath unto Yahweh thy God, in it thou shalt not do any manner of work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy man-servant, nor thy maid-servant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; for in six days Yahweh made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested on the seventh day; wherefore Yahweh blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

This one is common knowledge.


Honor thy father and thy mother, that thy days may be long upon the land which Yahweh thy God giveth thee.

Remember how I said the Rephaim were the dead ancestors in Sheol? The Hebrew people use to believe their ancestors or Rephaim, played an essential role in securing blessings for their living descendants. By honoring your ancestors, you ensure that you live a long and healthy life.

Thou shalt not murder. Thou shalt not commit adultery. Thou shalt not steal. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's house; thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife, nor his man-servant, nor his maid-servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor any thing that is thy neighbor's.

These are pretty much self explanatory as well

Here you are wrong, God made Himself known to what the people could grasp. At least they served a living God! And using the word "cult" when you don't understand it, doesn't help make your point stronger, if anything, you just made it weak, sad! Buddah is dead, in the grave, dust, poof, gone. Next!
DanT
Posts: 5,693
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5/1/2013 1:52:12 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/1/2013 12:18:43 AM, Suqua wrote:
At 4/26/2013 11:12:48 PM, DanT wrote:
And elohim spoke all these words, saying:

I am Yahweh thy God, who brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt have no other gods before Me.



The cult of Yahweh was originally Monolatristic. Monolatrism is when you worship only one god, but you recognize the existence of other gods. This commandment declares the Hebrew religion to be Monolatristic.


Thou shalt not make sculptures or any image, of any thing that is in the heavens above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; thou shalt not bow down unto them, nor serve them; for I Yahweh thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate Me; and showing mercy unto the thousandth generation of them that love Me and keep My commandments.

The Egyptians had the most detailed concept of the soul. Nearly all ancient religions in the Mediterranean and Middle East held a similar concepts. One concept, that was almost universal was the Sheut or Shadow. The Egyptian Sheut was similar to the Hebrew Rephaim, or shades. The Rephaim were dead ancestors that reside in Sheol.

While the Sheut were associated with death, and were often considered servants of Anubis, the living also had Sheuts. The Sheut served as the incorporeal body of the Ba, or soul, which could go places the body could not. The Ba was always close to the Sheut. Statues and other images of Pharaohs and Gods were sometimes called their Sheut, and were believed to contain part of their Sheut. While they contained part of their Sheut, they did not necessarily contain their Ba. The Egyptian priests would sometimes invoke the gods to draw their Ba to the Sheut of their statues, so they could be in the presence of the Gods.


This is not only a commandment about worshiping the idols of other gods, but also idols of Yahweh . It is also a prohibition against worshiping the idols of humans and animals. Imagine if you saved a city from a terrorist attack, and instead of thanking you, they thank a statue of you. Your image or Sheut did not save the day, you or your Ba saved the day.

This is a two fold commandment; the first was against creating statues, in order to be in the presence of the gods, and the second was praising the Sheut instead of the Ba.

Thou shalt not take the name of Yahweh thy God in vain; for Yahweh will not hold him guiltless that taketh His name in vain

This is associated with the previous commandment. Another Egyptian concept of the soul was the Ren or name. Egyptians tended to use nicknames, and kept their real names secret. They would often have naming ceremonies due to its importance. If you knew someone's Ren, you could control their Ba, by invoking their name. You could also curse their Ba, by cursing their name.

The commandment to not take God's name in vain, means don't invoke god for unimportant or pointless reasons. For example; don't ask god to help you win the lottery.


Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work; but the seventh day is a sabbath unto Yahweh thy God, in it thou shalt not do any manner of work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy man-servant, nor thy maid-servant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; for in six days Yahweh made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested on the seventh day; wherefore Yahweh blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

This one is common knowledge.


Honor thy father and thy mother, that thy days may be long upon the land which Yahweh thy God giveth thee.

Remember how I said the Rephaim were the dead ancestors in Sheol? The Hebrew people use to believe their ancestors or Rephaim, played an essential role in securing blessings for their living descendants. By honoring your ancestors, you ensure that you live a long and healthy life.

Thou shalt not murder. Thou shalt not commit adultery. Thou shalt not steal. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's house; thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife, nor his man-servant, nor his maid-servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor any thing that is thy neighbor's.

These are pretty much self explanatory as well

Here you are wrong, God made Himself known to what the people could grasp. At least they served a living God! And using the word "cult" when you don't understand it, doesn't help make your point stronger, if anything, you just made it weak, sad! Buddah is dead, in the grave, dust, poof, gone. Next!

A.) Buddhah is not a god, he is an enlightened being
B.) Buddhists don't worship Buddha
C.) I'm not using the word cult in the Jonestown sense, I'm using it in the original academic sense.

The cult of Athena was based in Athens, the cult of Ptah was based in Memphis, the cult of Enlil was based in Nippur, and the cult of Yahweh was a nomadic mesopotamian tribe. The Egyptians referred to them as the Shasu of Yeh-Hu-Wah'ou; Shasu translates to those who move on foot.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
DanT
Posts: 5,693
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5/1/2013 2:04:14 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/30/2013 2:24:17 AM, 1Devilsadvocate wrote:
At 4/29/2013 12:22:55 PM, DanT wrote:
At 4/29/2013 12:05:04 PM, 1Devilsadvocate wrote:
At 4/28/2013 8:56:56 PM, DanT wrote:
According to the Oxford dictionary

(n) god (a superhuman being or spirit worshipped as having power over nature or human fortunes; a deity)

(n) deity (divine status, quality, or nature)

Definition of God
noun
1 [without article] (in Christianity and other monotheistic religions) the creator and ruler of the universe and source of all moral authority; the supreme being.
http://oxforddictionaries.com...

My point is that they are entirely different beings, and thus some distinction should be made. In the bible they are refered to as "אלהים אחרים".

That's in monotheistic religions Monolateralism is a form of Polytheism

All I'm saying is that a distinction should be made between Yahweh God and other subordinate forces/beings.

You wrote:
"Monolatrism is when you worship only one god, but you recognize the existence of other gods. This commandment declares the Hebrew religion to be Monolatristic."

By simply using the same word "God", it implies that the Hebrew religion believed that there were many beings like the one they serve & that Yahweh is one of many.

They are 2 very different beings, some distinction should be made (especially when discussing them together), rather than using the same word for both, when in fact two entirely different beings are being discussed.

That is and always has been a fundamental belief of Judaism, there is no one like Yahweh. As I've said, Orthodox Jews still do believe that there are spiritual beings that are subordinate to God.
You are aware that your only issue with my assessment is semantics?

Yahweh is the chief deity. Yahweh originally had a consort, named Asherah.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle