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Talib.ul-Ilm
Posts: 203
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5/1/2013 8:47:24 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
The debate is about Islaam, and whether or not it condones terrorism. Feel free to accept it if you have the intellectual courage to do so.

http://www.debate.org...

Otherwise, if you're an Islamaphobe and going around saying it does condone Islaam, and don't accept this debate, you're an intellectual coward.
Talib.ul-Ilm
Posts: 203
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5/1/2013 8:49:44 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/1/2013 8:47:24 PM, Talib.ul-Ilm wrote:
The debate is about Islaam, and whether or not it condones terrorism. Feel free to accept it if you have the intellectual courage to do so.

http://www.debate.org...

Otherwise, if you're an Islamaphobe and going around saying it does condone "terrorism", and don't accept this debate, you're an intellectual coward.
Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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5/1/2013 8:56:36 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/1/2013 8:47:24 PM, Talib.ul-Ilm wrote:
The debate is about Islaam, and whether or not it condones terrorism. Feel free to accept it if you have the intellectual courage to do so.

http://www.debate.org...

Otherwise, if you're an Islamaphobe and going around saying it does condone Islaam, and don't accept this debate, you're an intellectual coward.

You say "unprovoked" but what about violence in the context of defensive or agressive jihad?

There's a difference between random aggression towards another human being and the religious motivation behind those who do harm to innocents.
Composer
Posts: 5,858
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5/3/2013 2:51:49 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/1/2013 8:47:24 PM, Talib.ul-Ilm wrote:
The debate is about Islaam, and whether or not it condones terrorism. Feel free to accept it if you have the intellectual courage to do so.

http://www.debate.org...

Otherwise, if you're an Islamaphobe and going around saying it does condone Islaam, and don't accept this debate, you're an intellectual coward.

Are you claiming Islam doesn't condone terrorism in Principle as opposed to reality in the real world where we live?

IF Islam truly doesn't condone terrorism; why is there so much terrorism around us?
Pennington
Posts: 1,286
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5/3/2013 5:48:10 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
The Quran does not say, "kill the infidel?" That would be anyone who is not Muslim. I know it does a lot. Either you do not follow the book or you feel that way, which is it?
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slo1
Posts: 4,313
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5/3/2013 6:37:09 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/1/2013 8:47:24 PM, Talib.ul-Ilm wrote:
The debate is about Islaam, and whether or not it condones terrorism. Feel free to accept it if you have the intellectual courage to do so.

http://www.debate.org...

Otherwise, if you're an Islamaphobe and going around saying it does condone Islaam, and don't accept this debate, you're an intellectual coward.

I don't think your debate should be directed to Islam-aphobes, but rather the different interpretations of Islam. There are just as many different interpretations of Islam as there are of Christianity and despite the extremely over arching generalization that all Muslims are still all under the same umbrella of Islam, the sects/interpretations really are incompatible.

In other terms, all the major religions should go back to the old days of infighting to figure out who has the proper interpretation and leave all us good folk out of it.
cybertron1998
Posts: 5,818
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5/3/2013 6:54:18 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Well of course islam doesn't condone terrorism. It condones retaliation,but not terrorism. If anything we provoked them in the first place. When the western world went into the middle east, it never came out. Islamic countries asked and asked us to leave, but no, we just had to "fix" it. We didn't even fix it. In fact, the western world created the monsters that a lot of countries in the middle east have developed into. We need to quit our whining because its our fault.
Epsilon: There are so many stories where some brave hero decides to give their life to save the day, and because of their sacrifice, the good guys win, the survivors all cheer, and everybody lives happily ever after. But the hero... never gets to see that ending. They'll never know if their sacrifice actually made a difference. They'll never know if the day was really saved. In the end, they just have to have faith.
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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5/3/2013 10:36:23 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/3/2013 5:48:10 AM, Pennington wrote:
The Quran does not say, "kill the infidel?" That would be anyone who is not Muslim. I know it does a lot. Either you do not follow the book or you feel that way, which is it?

It says it in the context of battles , bring the verse and re-read it in the context.

We can not kill our neighbour just for not being a Muslim, this is a misunderstanding that the terrorists themselves taught you.
Fruitytree
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5/3/2013 10:40:05 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/3/2013 6:54:18 AM, cybertron1998 wrote:
Well of course islam doesn't condone terrorism. It condones retaliation,but not terrorism. If anything we provoked them in the first place. When the western world went into the middle east, it never came out. Islamic countries asked and asked us to leave, but no, we just had to "fix" it. We didn't even fix it. In fact, the western world created the monsters that a lot of countries in the middle east have developed into. We need to quit our whining because its our fault.

Good point. but still Jihad has rulings , and the ruler is the one to declare jihad, not muslim individuals forming a group and deciding to go for it. All this is a misunderstanding and lack of knowledge.
AlbinoBunny_2.0
Posts: 10
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5/3/2013 10:49:10 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/3/2013 5:48:10 AM, Pennington wrote:
The Quran does not say, "kill the infidel?" That would be anyone who is not Muslim. I know it does a lot. Either you do not follow the book or you feel that way, which is it?

Source please.
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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5/3/2013 10:50:55 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/3/2013 10:49:10 AM, AlbinoBunny_2.0 wrote:
At 5/3/2013 5:48:10 AM, Pennington wrote:
The Quran does not say, "kill the infidel?" That would be anyone who is not Muslim. I know it does a lot. Either you do not follow the book or you feel that way, which is it?

Source please.

What happened to you ?was it a fox ?
Talib.ul-Ilm
Posts: 203
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5/3/2013 11:12:48 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/3/2013 2:51:49 AM, Composer wrote:
At 5/1/2013 8:47:24 PM, Talib.ul-Ilm wrote:
The debate is about Islaam, and whether or not it condones terrorism. Feel free to accept it if you have the intellectual courage to do so.

http://www.debate.org...

Otherwise, if you're an Islamaphobe and going around saying it does condone Islaam, and don't accept this debate, you're an intellectual coward.

Are you claiming Islam doesn't condone terrorism in Principle as opposed to reality in the real world where we live?

IF Islam truly doesn't condone terrorism; why is there so much terrorism around us?

Read the debate. And the comments. I clearly showed that Islam forbids the intentional killing of women and children, and the elderly and laborers in some narrations. As well as the fact that suicide is not allowed at all either. Suicide bombers are cowards.

Every verse in the Qur'an calling for war with the kuffar is just that, calling for "war". Which means fighting their "armies", and not their people.
Talib.ul-Ilm
Posts: 203
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5/3/2013 11:15:55 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/1/2013 8:56:36 PM, Wnope wrote:
At 5/1/2013 8:47:24 PM, Talib.ul-Ilm wrote:
The debate is about Islaam, and whether or not it condones terrorism. Feel free to accept it if you have the intellectual courage to do so.

http://www.debate.org...

Otherwise, if you're an Islamaphobe and going around saying it does condone Islaam, and don't accept this debate, you're an intellectual coward.

You say "unprovoked" but what about violence in the context of defensive or agressive jihad?

There's a difference between random aggression towards another human being and the religious motivation behind those who do harm to innocents.

You can't as an individual just up and decide to go to war against the kuffar/disbelievers. You have to be called to war.

Jihad is up to the ruler, who must rule according to Shari'ah, including the rules of jihad. So who cares of a "nation" goes to war with another nation? That's something many people don't understand either, Islam is more than a religion, it is a nation as well. In fact, these very "Muslim nations" are actually illegal, innovations.
Talib.ul-Ilm
Posts: 203
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5/3/2013 11:17:25 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/3/2013 5:48:10 AM, Pennington wrote:
The Quran does not say, "kill the infidel?" That would be anyone who is not Muslim. I know it does a lot. Either you do not follow the book or you feel that way, which is it?

This doesn't even deserve a response. Not only have you completely ignored the context, and the Muslim understanding of these verses, you have ignored the non-Muslim scholars understanding as well, because it is basically one and the same.

Enjoy your Robert Spencer and ignorance.
Talib.ul-Ilm
Posts: 203
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5/3/2013 11:22:43 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Really, in all reality, the terrorists are subject to judgment according to Shari'ah, which is death if the loved ones decide it, or compensation.
AbnerGrimm
Posts: 114
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5/3/2013 12:03:18 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
The Quran contains at least 109 verses that call Muslims to war with nonbelievers for the sake of Islamic rule. They are part of the eternal, unchanging word of Allah, and just as relevant or subjective as anything else in the Quran.

Dictionary of Islam defines Jihad as "A religious war with those who are unbelievers in the mission of Muhammad. It is an incumbent religious duty, established in the Qur'an and in the Traditions as a divine institution, and enjoined specially for the purpose of advancing Islam and of repelling evil from Muslims"[Quoting from the Hanafi school, Hedaya, 2:140, 141.], "The destruction of the sword is incurred by infidels, although they be not the first aggressors, as appears from various passages in the traditions which are generally received to this effect."

Saifur Rahman, The Sealed Nectar p.227-228 - "Embrace Islam... If you two accept Islam, you will remain in command of your country; but if your refuse my Call, you"ve got to remember that all of your possessions are perishable. My horsemen will appropriate your land, and my Prophethood will assume preponderance over your kingship."

Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 992: - "Fight everyone in the way of Allah and kill those who disbelieve in Allah."

Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 327: - "Allah said, "A prophet must slaughter before collecting captives. A slaughtered enemy is driven from the land. Muhammad, you craved the desires of this world, its goods and the ransom captives would bring. But Allah desires killing them to manifest the religion.""

Tabari 17:187 "'By God, our religion (din) from which we have departed is better and more correct than that which these people follow. Their religion does not stop them from shedding blood, terrifying the roads, and seizing properties.' And they returned to their former religion."

Tabari 9:69 "Killing Unbelievers is a small matter to us"

Tabari 7:97 The morning after the murder of Ashraf, the Prophet declared, "Kill any Jew who falls under your power."

Muslim (20:4696) - "the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: 'One who died but did not fight in the way of Allah nor did he express any desire (or determination) for Jihad died the death of a hypocrite.'"

Muslim (20:4645) - "...He (the Messenger of Allah) did that and said: There is another act which elevates the position of a man in Paradise to a grade one hundred (higher), and the elevation between one grade and the other is equal to the height of the heaven from the earth. He (Abu Sa'id) said: What is that act? He replied: Jihad in the way of Allah! Jihad in the way of Allah!"

Muslim (1:149) - "Abu Dharr reported: I said: Messenger of Allah, which of the deeds is the best? He (the Holy Prophet) replied: Belief in Allah and Jihad in His cause..."

Bukhari (52:177) - Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."

Bukhari (52:256) - The Prophet... was asked whether it was permissible to attack the pagan warriors at night with the probability of exposing their women and children to danger. The Prophet replied, "They (i.e. women and children) are from them (i.e. pagans)." In this command, Muhammad establishes that it is permissible to kill non-combatants in the process of killing a perceived enemy. This provides justification for the many Islamic terror bombings.

Bukhari (52:65) - The Prophet said, 'He who fights that Allah's Word, Islam, should be superior, fights in Allah's Cause. Muhammad's words are the basis for offensive Jihad - spreading Islam by force. This is how it was understood by his companions, and by the terrorists of today.

Bukhari (52:220) - Allah's Apostle said... 'I have been made victorious with terror'

Abu Dawud (14:2526) - The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Three things are the roots of faith: to refrain from (killing) a person who utters, "There is no god but Allah" and not to declare him unbeliever whatever sin he commits, and not to excommunicate him from Islam for his any action; and jihad will be performed continuously since the day Allah sent me as a prophet until the day the last member of my community will fight with the Dajjal (Antichrist)

Abu Dawud (14:2527) - The Prophet said: Striving in the path of Allah (jihad) is incumbent on you along with every ruler, whether he is pious or impious

Muslim (1:33) - the Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah

Bukhari (8:387) - Allah's Apostle said, "I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah'. And if they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then their blood and property will be sacred to us and we will not interfere with them except legally."

Muslim (1:30) - "The Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people so long as they do not declare that there is no god but Allah."

Bukhari (11:626) - [Muhammad said:] "I decided to order a man to lead the prayer and then take a flame to burn all those, who had not left their houses for the prayer, burning them alive inside their homes."

Quran (66:9) - "O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern with them. Hell will be their home, a hapless journey's end."

Quran (61:10-12) - "O You who believe! Shall I guide you to a commerce that will save you from a painful torment. That you believe in Allah and His Messenger (Muhammad ), and that you strive hard and fight in the Cause of Allah with your wealth and your lives, that will be better for you, if you but know! (If you do so) He will forgive you your sins, and admit you into Gardens under which rivers flow, and pleasant dwelling in Gardens of 'Adn - Eternity ['Adn (Edn) Paradise], that is indeed the great success."

Quran (48:17) - "There is no blame for the blind, nor is there blame for the lame, nor is there blame for the sick (that they go not forth to war). And whoso obeyeth Allah and His messenger, He will make him enter Gardens underneath which rivers flow; and whoso turneth back, him will He punish with a painful doom."

Quran (33:60-62) - "If the hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease, and the alarmists in the city do not cease, We verily shall urge thee on against them, then they will be your neighbors in it but a little while. Accursed, they will be seized wherever found and slain with a (fierce) slaughter."

Quran (21:44) - "We gave the good things of this life to these men and their fathers until the period grew long for them; See they not that We gradually reduce the land (in their control) from its outlying borders? Is it then they who will win?"

Quran (25:52) - "Therefore listen not to the Unbelievers, but strive against them with the utmost strenuousness..."
1Devilsadvocate
Posts: 1,518
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5/3/2013 2:19:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/3/2013 11:12:48 AM, Talib.ul-Ilm wrote:
At 5/3/2013 2:51:49 AM, Composer wrote:
At 5/1/2013 8:47:24 PM, Talib.ul-Ilm wrote:
The debate is about Islaam, and whether or not it condones terrorism. Feel free to accept it if you have the intellectual courage to do so.

http://www.debate.org...

Otherwise, if you're an Islamaphobe and going around saying it does condone Islaam, and don't accept this debate, you're an intellectual coward.

Are you claiming Islam doesn't condone terrorism in Principle as opposed to reality in the real world where we live?

IF Islam truly doesn't condone terrorism; why is there so much terrorism around us?

Read the debate. And the comments. I clearly showed that Islam forbids the intentional killing of women and children, and the elderly and laborers in some narrations. As well as the fact that suicide is not allowed at all either. Suicide bombers are cowards.

Why only "women and children, and the elderly and laborers"?
And what's the word "intentional" doing there?
I cannot write in English, because of the treacherous spelling. When I am reading, I only hear it and am unable to remember what the written word looks like."
"Albert Einstein

http://www.twainquotes.com... , http://thewritecorner.wordpress.com... , http://www.onlinecollegecourses.com...
1Devilsadvocate
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5/3/2013 2:28:05 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Hypothetically, suppose you became convinced that Islam does condone terrorism, would you become a jihadi, or a kuffar (one who leaves Islam)?
I cannot write in English, because of the treacherous spelling. When I am reading, I only hear it and am unable to remember what the written word looks like."
"Albert Einstein

http://www.twainquotes.com... , http://thewritecorner.wordpress.com... , http://www.onlinecollegecourses.com...
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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5/4/2013 3:57:26 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
AbnerGrimm

You took everything out of context, like any ignorant terrorist. but unfortunately, did you study what fighting or striving in the way of Allah is ? Fiqh of Jihad is ? no , why would you?!

Talib-ul-Ilm : I believe it would be wise to write a topic about Jihad rulings in Islam , so those know , and some of our ignorant brothers know too.
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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5/4/2013 4:02:09 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/3/2013 2:51:49 AM, Composer wrote:
At 5/1/2013 8:47:24 PM, Talib.ul-Ilm wrote:
The debate is about Islaam, and whether or not it condones terrorism. Feel free to accept it if you have the intellectual courage to do so.

http://www.debate.org...

Otherwise, if you're an Islamaphobe and going around saying it does condone Islaam, and don't accept this debate, you're an intellectual coward.

Are you claiming Islam doesn't condone terrorism in Principle as opposed to reality in the real world where we live?

IF Islam truly doesn't condone terrorism; why is there so much terrorism around us?

Because people are ignorant! they do not learn before they do something? they know Jihad is a good deed, they do it on their own without learning what and how and when!!

Can you tell me why so much Christians are fornicators ? doesn't the bible strictly forbids it ?
Composer
Posts: 5,858
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5/4/2013 6:04:12 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/4/2013 4:02:09 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 5/3/2013 2:51:49 AM, Composer wrote:
At 5/1/2013 8:47:24 PM, Talib.ul-Ilm wrote:
The debate is about Islaam, and whether or not it condones terrorism. Feel free to accept it if you have the intellectual courage to do so.

http://www.debate.org...

Otherwise, if you're an Islamaphobe and going around saying it does condone Islaam, and don't accept this debate, you're an intellectual coward.

Are you claiming Islam doesn't condone terrorism in Principle as opposed to reality in the real world where we live?

IF Islam truly doesn't condone terrorism; why is there so much terrorism around us?

Because people are ignorant! they do not learn before they do something? they know Jihad is a good deed, they do it on their own without learning what and how and when!!

Can you tell me why so much Christians are fornicators ? doesn't the bible strictly forbids it ?

You are correct that those claiming to be a genuine Moslem & those claiming to be a genuine jebus believer are liars and hypocrites!

It is also sad that the only response you have for your Islamic cause is that " Oh well those xtians are as bad as us! '.

To non-believers looking on, you are both as bad as each other and both liars & hypocrites and your respective gods sit back and let you carry on in this way without stepping in to stop you both!

Why you ask?

Because they are also a figment of your imagination!
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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5/4/2013 6:21:07 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Composer Err I forgot who you are!

Well , you make a point by saying a lot of theists actually have an imagination of God that is not true, not supported by scriptures anyway.

And to why God doesn't stop them? it's simple. we are on the land of test, results are for after death.

But I guess this is off-topic,

Why you call Jesus peace be upon him, Jebus? Jesus is not even his real name but Eesaa , but the Greeks don't have the right letters to write his name!!
Talib.ul-Ilm
Posts: 203
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5/4/2013 7:16:09 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/3/2013 12:03:18 PM, AbnerGrimm wrote:
The Quran contains at least 109 verses that call Muslims to war with nonbelievers for the sake of Islamic rule. They are part of the eternal, unchanging word of Allah, and just as relevant or subjective as anything else in the Quran.

Dictionary of Islam defines Jihad as "A religious war with those who are unbelievers in the mission of Muhammad. It is an incumbent religious duty, established in the Qur'an and in the Traditions as a divine institution, and enjoined specially for the purpose of advancing Islam and of repelling evil from Muslims"[Quoting from the Hanafi school, Hedaya, 2:140, 141.], "The destruction of the sword is incurred by infidels, although they be not the first aggressors, as appears from various passages in the traditions which are generally received to this effect."

Saifur Rahman, The Sealed Nectar p.227-228 - "Embrace Islam... If you two accept Islam, you will remain in command of your country; but if your refuse my Call, you"ve got to remember that all of your possessions are perishable. My horsemen will appropriate your land, and my Prophethood will assume preponderance over your kingship."

Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 992: - "Fight everyone in the way of Allah and kill those who disbelieve in Allah."

Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 327: - "Allah said, "A prophet must slaughter before collecting captives. A slaughtered enemy is driven from the land. Muhammad, you craved the desires of this world, its goods and the ransom captives would bring. But Allah desires killing them to manifest the religion.""

Tabari 17:187 "'By God, our religion (din) from which we have departed is better and more correct than that which these people follow. Their religion does not stop them from shedding blood, terrifying the roads, and seizing properties.' And they returned to their former religion."

Tabari 9:69 "Killing Unbelievers is a small matter to us"

Tabari 7:97 The morning after the murder of Ashraf, the Prophet declared, "Kill any Jew who falls under your power."

Muslim (20:4696) - "the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: 'One who died but did not fight in the way of Allah nor did he express any desire (or determination) for Jihad died the death of a hypocrite.'"

Muslim (20:4645) - "...He (the Messenger of Allah) did that and said: There is another act which elevates the position of a man in Paradise to a grade one hundred (higher), and the elevation between one grade and the other is equal to the height of the heaven from the earth. He (Abu Sa'id) said: What is that act? He replied: Jihad in the way of Allah! Jihad in the way of Allah!"

Muslim (1:149) - "Abu Dharr reported: I said: Messenger of Allah, which of the deeds is the best? He (the Holy Prophet) replied: Belief in Allah and Jihad in His cause..."

Bukhari (52:177) - Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."



Bukhari (52:256) - The Prophet... was asked whether it was permissible to attack the pagan warriors at night with the probability of exposing their women and children to danger. The Prophet replied, "They (i.e. women and children) are from them (i.e. pagans)." In this command, Muhammad establishes that it is permissible to kill non-combatants in the process of killing a perceived enemy. This provides justification for the many Islamic terror bombings.



Bukhari (52:65) - The Prophet said, 'He who fights that Allah's Word, Islam, should be superior, fights in Allah's Cause. Muhammad's words are the basis for offensive Jihad - spreading Islam by force. This is how it was understood by his companions, and by the terrorists of today.

Bukhari (52:220) - Allah's Apostle said... 'I have been made victorious with terror'

Abu Dawud (14:2526) - The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Three things are the roots of faith: to refrain from (killing) a person who utters, "There is no god but Allah" and not to declare him unbeliever whatever sin he commits, and not to excommunicate him from Islam for his any action; and jihad will be performed continuously since the day Allah sent me as a prophet until the day the last member of my community will fight with the Dajjal (Antichrist)

Abu Dawud (14:2527) - The Prophet said: Striving in the path of Allah (jihad) is incumbent on you along with every ruler, whether he is pious or impious

Muslim (1:33) - the Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah

Bukhari (8:387) - Allah's Apostle said, "I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah'. And if they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then their blood and property will be sacred to us and we will not interfere with them except legally."

Muslim (1:30) - "The Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people so long as they do not declare that there is no god but Allah."

Bukhari (11:626) - [Muhammad said:] "I decided to order a man to lead the prayer and then take a flame to burn all those, who had not left their houses for the prayer, burning them alive inside their homes."

Quran (66:9) - "O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern with them. Hell will be their home, a hapless journey's end."

Quran (61:10-12) - "O You who believe! Shall I guide you to a commerce that will save you from a painful torment. That you believe in Allah and His Messenger (Muhammad ), and that you strive hard and fight in the Cause of Allah with your wealth and your lives, that will be better for you, if you but know! (If you do so) He will forgive you your sins, and admit you into Gardens under which rivers flow, and pleasant dwelling in Gardens of 'Adn - Eternity ['Adn (Edn) Paradise], that is indeed the great success."

Quran (48:17) - "There is no blame for the blind, nor is there blame for the lame, nor is there blame for the sick (that they go not forth to war). And whoso obeyeth Allah and His messenger, He will make him enter Gardens underneath which rivers flow; and whoso turneth back, him will He punish with a painful doom."

Quran (33:60-62) - "If the hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease, and the alarmists in the city do not cease, We verily shall urge thee on against them, then they will be your neighbors in it but a little while. Accursed, they will be seized wherever found and slain with a (fierce) slaughter."

Quran (21:44) - "We gave the good things of this life to these men and their fathers until the period grew long for them; See they not that We gradually reduce the land (in their control) from its outlying borders? Is it then they who will win?"

Quran (25:52) - "Therefore listen not to the Unbelievers, but strive against them with the utmost strenuousness..."

One, Ibn Hisham/Ishaq is not a reliable source, nor is it even used that much by Muslims themselves. Why? Because many of the ahadeeth used are fabricated and weak.

Two, the same applies to some of those ahadeeth I am sure, they are weak or fabricated. There is a reason as to why we have scholars, and it takes years upon years to be a scholar of Islam.

Three, the call to war is just that, war, war with the armies of the disbelievers. Are you a pacifist? Do you deny our human nature to fight for things? What's better to fight for, God or politics? God.
Talib.ul-Ilm
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5/4/2013 7:19:11 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/3/2013 2:28:05 PM, 1Devilsadvocate wrote:
Hypothetically, suppose you became convinced that Islam does condone terrorism, would you become a jihadi, or a kuffar (one who leaves Islam)?

There is no way that is possible, because it simply doesn't. You're not allowed to go around killing people for no reason. You fight the armies of the disbelievers, not their civilians.

And the one who leaves Islam is an apostate, not a kafir.

Should you re-word that question and disallow terrorism, I would fight against oppressors and those who wage war on Islam if called to by a proper Amir/Sheikh who proved himself to have good character, and wished war on those who deserved it.
Talib.ul-Ilm
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5/4/2013 7:21:06 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/3/2013 2:19:54 PM, 1Devilsadvocate wrote:
At 5/3/2013 11:12:48 AM, Talib.ul-Ilm wrote:
At 5/3/2013 2:51:49 AM, Composer wrote:
At 5/1/2013 8:47:24 PM, Talib.ul-Ilm wrote:
The debate is about Islaam, and whether or not it condones terrorism. Feel free to accept it if you have the intellectual courage to do so.

http://www.debate.org...

Otherwise, if you're an Islamaphobe and going around saying it does condone Islaam, and don't accept this debate, you're an intellectual coward.

Are you claiming Islam doesn't condone terrorism in Principle as opposed to reality in the real world where we live?

IF Islam truly doesn't condone terrorism; why is there so much terrorism around us?

Read the debate. And the comments. I clearly showed that Islam forbids the intentional killing of women and children, and the elderly and laborers in some narrations. As well as the fact that suicide is not allowed at all either. Suicide bombers are cowards.

Why only "women and children, and the elderly and laborers"?
And what's the word "intentional" doing there?

And people in cloisters, don't forget to mention that. And why not? That's basically everyone who would not be involved in the fighting.

Intentional is there because as we all know, there are casualties. Or are you condemning even our troops who went to Iraq and Afghanistan as murderers and terrorists?
Talib.ul-Ilm
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5/4/2013 7:26:55 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/4/2013 6:04:12 AM, Composer wrote:
At 5/4/2013 4:02:09 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 5/3/2013 2:51:49 AM, Composer wrote:
At 5/1/2013 8:47:24 PM, Talib.ul-Ilm wrote:
The debate is about Islaam, and whether or not it condones terrorism. Feel free to accept it if you have the intellectual courage to do so.

http://www.debate.org...

Otherwise, if you're an Islamaphobe and going around saying it does condone Islaam, and don't accept this debate, you're an intellectual coward.

Are you claiming Islam doesn't condone terrorism in Principle as opposed to reality in the real world where we live?

IF Islam truly doesn't condone terrorism; why is there so much terrorism around us?

Because people are ignorant! they do not learn before they do something? they know Jihad is a good deed, they do it on their own without learning what and how and when!!

Can you tell me why so much Christians are fornicators ? doesn't the bible strictly forbids it ?

You are correct that those claiming to be a genuine Moslem & those claiming to be a genuine jebus believer are liars and hypocrites!

It is also sad that the only response you have for your Islamic cause is that " Oh well those xtians are as bad as us! '.

To non-believers looking on, you are both as bad as each other and both liars & hypocrites and your respective gods sit back and let you carry on in this way without stepping in to stop you both!

Why you ask?

Because they are also a figment of your imagination!

Actually she assumed that you were Christian, as many in the West are, and showing the hypocrisy of Christians challenging things that are in their own Bible.

God is not apart of our imagination, not a figment at all. God makes more sense than no God and something coming from absolutely nothing. And a lot more sense than the multi-verse theory, which ironically is still something from nothing.