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Why is evidence for deities impossible?

AlbinoBunny
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5/6/2013 6:13:52 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
A lot of people claim we won't find evidence and/or proof for deities. People claim we can't use science to find "God".

How do they know? It could be possible. Or would they just rather that it was impossible?
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AbnerGrimm
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5/6/2013 6:18:09 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/6/2013 6:13:52 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
A lot of people claim we won't find evidence and/or proof for deities. People claim we can't use science to find "God".

How do they know? It could be possible. Or would they just rather that it was impossible?

Since we are so used to seeing the beauty of the earth and space we overlook it. We also must look beyond the physical world for a God. If you put limits on what could be then you put limits on what God could be. God is beyond limits and that is why physical evidence can go only so far. God connects through the spiritual and be using His Word does that increase.
AlbinoBunny
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5/6/2013 6:20:41 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/6/2013 6:18:09 AM, AbnerGrimm wrote:
At 5/6/2013 6:13:52 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
A lot of people claim we won't find evidence and/or proof for deities. People claim we can't use science to find "God".

How do they know? It could be possible. Or would they just rather that it was impossible?

Since we are so used to seeing the beauty of the earth and space we overlook it. We also must look beyond the physical world for a God. If you put limits on what could be then you put limits on what God could be. God is beyond limits and that is why physical evidence can go only so far. God connects through the spiritual and be using His Word does that increase.

Must we? Maybe God does have certain limits? God is beyond limits you say? Any proof?
bladerunner060 | bsh1 , 2014! Presidency campaign!

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johnlubba
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5/6/2013 7:16:46 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/6/2013 6:20:41 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 5/6/2013 6:18:09 AM, AbnerGrimm wrote:
At 5/6/2013 6:13:52 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
A lot of people claim we won't find evidence and/or proof for deities. People claim we can't use science to find "God".

How do they know? It could be possible. Or would they just rather that it was impossible?

Since we are so used to seeing the beauty of the earth and space we overlook it. We also must look beyond the physical world for a God. If you put limits on what could be then you put limits on what God could be. God is beyond limits and that is why physical evidence can go only so far. God connects through the spiritual and be using His Word does that increase.

Must we? Maybe God does have certain limits? God is beyond limits you say? Any proof?

Nope, no proof, everything just happens to function automatically and for no apparent reason.
AbnerGrimm
Posts: 114
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5/6/2013 7:20:51 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/6/2013 6:20:41 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 5/6/2013 6:18:09 AM, AbnerGrimm wrote:
At 5/6/2013 6:13:52 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
A lot of people claim we won't find evidence and/or proof for deities. People claim we can't use science to find "God".

How do they know? It could be possible. Or would they just rather that it was impossible?

Since we are so used to seeing the beauty of the earth and space we overlook it. We also must look beyond the physical world for a God. If you put limits on what could be then you put limits on what God could be. God is beyond limits and that is why physical evidence can go only so far. God connects through the spiritual and be using His Word does that increase.

Must we?:
You should answer that yourself. I think so.
Maybe God does have certain limits?
Sure He does, anything that goes against His nature.
God is beyond limits you say?
Beyond limits of creating but He cannot go against is eternal and perfect nature.
Any proof?
You and I exist.
Fruitytree
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5/6/2013 7:26:16 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Well by evidence you mean scientific evidence it seems, not reasoning.

Science studies matter and energy that God made, He is not in the universe to be reached and studied, but we may eventually study his agents : Angels ( made of light) , Devils ( made of fire) maybe those could be detected and eventually studied. they are invisible to us so far.

The evidence can also be the truths in the scriptures, so far a lot of truths have been proven, and some have not yet.

Yes that would be too easy if we could.
AlbinoBunny
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5/6/2013 7:35:07 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/6/2013 7:20:51 AM, AbnerGrimm wrote:
At 5/6/2013 6:20:41 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 5/6/2013 6:18:09 AM, AbnerGrimm wrote:
At 5/6/2013 6:13:52 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
A lot of people claim we won't find evidence and/or proof for deities. People claim we can't use science to find "God".

How do they know? It could be possible. Or would they just rather that it was impossible?

Since we are so used to seeing the beauty of the earth and space we overlook it. We also must look beyond the physical world for a God. If you put limits on what could be then you put limits on what God could be. God is beyond limits and that is why physical evidence can go only so far. God connects through the spiritual and be using His Word does that increase.

Must we?:
You should answer that yourself. I think so.

I don't think we must necessarily look "beyond" the physical world, for evidence of deities. It's possible there is something in the physical world, like a theme for SGU is; there is something that seems artificial in the background radiation. Etc.

Maybe God does have certain limits?
Sure He does, anything that goes against His nature.

Ok. So we could use those limits to find him.

God is beyond limits you say?
Beyond limits of creating but He cannot go against is eternal and perfect nature.

Ok.

Any proof?
You and I exist.

You and I exist, therefore "God" exists, and that "God" is beyond limits?...
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AlbinoBunny
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5/6/2013 7:36:38 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/6/2013 7:16:46 AM, johnlubba wrote:
At 5/6/2013 6:20:41 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 5/6/2013 6:18:09 AM, AbnerGrimm wrote:
At 5/6/2013 6:13:52 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
A lot of people claim we won't find evidence and/or proof for deities. People claim we can't use science to find "God".

How do they know? It could be possible. Or would they just rather that it was impossible?

Since we are so used to seeing the beauty of the earth and space we overlook it. We also must look beyond the physical world for a God. If you put limits on what could be then you put limits on what God could be. God is beyond limits and that is why physical evidence can go only so far. God connects through the spiritual and be using His Word does that increase.

Must we? Maybe God does have certain limits? God is beyond limits you say? Any proof?



Nope, no proof, everything just happens to function automatically and for no apparent reason.

Are you suggesting that either;

[God is beyond limits.

OR

Everything just happens to function automatically and for no apparent reason] ?
bladerunner060 | bsh1 , 2014! Presidency campaign!

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AlbinoBunny
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5/6/2013 7:39:50 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/6/2013 7:26:16 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
Well by evidence you mean scientific evidence it seems, not reasoning.

Scientific, mathematical, maybe logical. Some people claim there is no way to know of a deities existence.


Science studies matter and energy that God made, He is not in the universe to be reached and studied, but we may eventually study his agents : Angels ( made of light) , Devils ( made of fire) maybe those could be detected and eventually studied. they are invisible to us so far.

We don't need to be able to study a deity directly to be able to study it. We could somehow be able to study deities indirectly via the universe.

Invisible, or non-existent? How do you decide which?


The evidence can also be the truths in the scriptures, so far a lot of truths have been proven, and some have not yet.

So how accurate a writing is? You know that there are many ways to make writings seem accurate?


Yes that would be too easy if we could.

Really?
bladerunner060 | bsh1 , 2014! Presidency campaign!

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AbnerGrimm
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5/6/2013 7:44:15 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/6/2013 7:35:07 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:

I don't think we must necessarily look "beyond" the physical world, for evidence of deities. It's possible there is something in the physical world, like a theme for SGU is; there is something that seems artificial in the background radiation. Etc.

I did not say it was necessary, just a serious option. Assuming we do not see deities normally it seems they are outside physical limits. We have much reason to believe there are multiple dimensions.

Maybe God does have certain limits?
Sure He does, anything that goes against His nature.

Ok. So we could use those limits to find him.

We do not find Him. He finds us. Just open the door when He is knocking.

God is beyond limits you say?
Beyond limits of creating but He cannot go against is eternal and perfect nature.

Ok.

Any proof?
You and I exist.

You and I exist, therefore "God" exists, and that "God" is beyond limits?...:

That is all need. I know God really exist. He has knocked on my door and I opened it. You do not have to take it. Leave it where it lies.
AlbinoBunny
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5/6/2013 8:03:52 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/6/2013 7:44:15 AM, AbnerGrimm wrote:
At 5/6/2013 7:35:07 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:

I don't think we must necessarily look "beyond" the physical world, for evidence of deities. It's possible there is something in the physical world, like a theme for SGU is; there is something that seems artificial in the background radiation. Etc.

I did not say it was necessary, just a serious option. Assuming we do not see deities normally it seems they are outside physical limits. We have much reason to believe there are multiple dimensions.

But scientists don't say it's impossible to find evidence for multiple dimensions, they just know that they'd need to be very innovative and think outside the box.


Maybe God does have certain limits?
Sure He does, anything that goes against His nature.

Ok. So we could use those limits to find him.

We do not find Him. He finds us. Just open the door when He is knocking.

So why does a deity have a hard time finding us? Where do we find this door?


God is beyond limits you say?
Beyond limits of creating but He cannot go against is eternal and perfect nature.

Ok.

Any proof?
You and I exist.

You and I exist, therefore "God" exists, and that "God" is beyond limits?...:

That is all need. I know God really exist. He has knocked on my door and I opened it. You do not have to take it. Leave it where it lies.

LOL. I have thousands of "knocking doors" which I could open and I could believe in many of those deities. We're talking about proper evidence here. Not, "I had a shiver down my spine" evidence.
bladerunner060 | bsh1 , 2014! Presidency campaign!

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Fruitytree
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5/6/2013 8:14:28 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/6/2013 7:39:50 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 5/6/2013 7:26:16 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
Well by evidence you mean scientific evidence it seems, not reasoning.

Scientific, mathematical, maybe logical. Some people claim there is no way to know of a deities existence.
well to me it is possible to prove it logically, and also through scientifically proving what came in the scriptures.

Science studies matter and energy that God made, He is not in the universe to be reached and studied, but we may eventually study his agents : Angels ( made of light) , Devils ( made of fire) maybe those could be detected and eventually studied. they are invisible to us so far.

We don't need to be able to study a deity directly to be able to study it. We could somehow be able to study deities indirectly via the universe.
Well yes eventually, but not all people will agree that they do exist if they don't see God, some people need to see miracles to believe.
Invisible, or non-existent? How do you decide which?
Well it is tricky .something that is real should have traces, a "fingerprint" , so we need to find those traces.

The evidence can also be the truths in the scriptures, so far a lot of truths have been proven, and some have not yet.

So how accurate a writing is? You know that there are many ways to make writings seem accurate?

Well not that easy, you are invited to give details about universe that we do not know yet and put them in a book and you'll see. besides scriptures , do you know any other books that gave true scientific theories plainly as truths.
Yes that would be too easy if we could.

Really?

Well from Abrahamic religions perspective, The test is all about believing without seeing with your eyes , or hearing with your ears, so you can know without scientific evidence just with reasoning. The point of the test.
AlbinoBunny
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5/6/2013 8:19:46 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/6/2013 8:14:28 AM, Fruitytree wrote:

Well from Abrahamic religions perspective, The test is all about believing without seeing with your eyes , or hearing with your ears, so you can know without scientific evidence just with reasoning. The point of the test.

So belief through ignorance?
bladerunner060 | bsh1 , 2014! Presidency campaign!

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AlbinoBunny
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5/6/2013 8:21:24 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/6/2013 7:26:16 AM, Fruitytree wrote:

The evidence can also be the truths in the scriptures, so far a lot of truths have been proven, and some have not yet.

Con-man tricks.
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johnlubba
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5/6/2013 8:24:15 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/6/2013 7:36:38 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 5/6/2013 7:16:46 AM, johnlubba wrote:
At 5/6/2013 6:20:41 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 5/6/2013 6:18:09 AM, AbnerGrimm wrote:
At 5/6/2013 6:13:52 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
A lot of people claim we won't find evidence and/or proof for deities. People claim we can't use science to find "God".

How do they know? It could be possible. Or would they just rather that it was impossible?

Since we are so used to seeing the beauty of the earth and space we overlook it. We also must look beyond the physical world for a God. If you put limits on what could be then you put limits on what God could be. God is beyond limits and that is why physical evidence can go only so far. God connects through the spiritual and be using His Word does that increase.

Must we? Maybe God does have certain limits? God is beyond limits you say? Any proof?



Nope, no proof, everything just happens to function automatically and for no apparent reason.

Are you suggesting that either;

[God is beyond limits.

OR

Everything just happens to function automatically and for no apparent reason] ?

You put to much importance on what you can see and what science can discover, without putting much thought into what the limits of science are and the imperfection of our senses, our senses are imperfect, for instance there are many stars in the sky, but in the daytime we have no power to see them, but it doesn't mean they are not there, it just means our senses are imperfect, we can only see them by day with the aid of telescopes, but we are making the telescopes because our senses are imperfect, there are many things we can not see with our imperfect senses and there are limits to what we can see and we shall never forget that beyond those limits may lie an infinitude of worlds, indeed there is.
AlbinoBunny
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5/6/2013 8:30:04 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/6/2013 8:24:15 AM, johnlubba wrote:
At 5/6/2013 7:36:38 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 5/6/2013 7:16:46 AM, johnlubba wrote:
At 5/6/2013 6:20:41 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 5/6/2013 6:18:09 AM, AbnerGrimm wrote:
At 5/6/2013 6:13:52 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
A lot of people claim we won't find evidence and/or proof for deities. People claim we can't use science to find "God".

How do they know? It could be possible. Or would they just rather that it was impossible?

Since we are so used to seeing the beauty of the earth and space we overlook it. We also must look beyond the physical world for a God. If you put limits on what could be then you put limits on what God could be. God is beyond limits and that is why physical evidence can go only so far. God connects through the spiritual and be using His Word does that increase.

Must we? Maybe God does have certain limits? God is beyond limits you say? Any proof?



Nope, no proof, everything just happens to function automatically and for no apparent reason.

Are you suggesting that either;

[God is beyond limits.

OR

Everything just happens to function automatically and for no apparent reason] ?


You put to much importance on what you can see and what science can discover, without putting much thought into what the limits of science are and the imperfection of our senses, our senses are imperfect, for instance there are many stars in the sky, but in the daytime we have no power to see them, but it doesn't mean they are not there, it just means our senses are imperfect, we can only see them by day with the aid of telescopes, but we are making the telescopes because our senses are imperfect, there are many things we can not see with our imperfect senses and there are limits to what we can see and we shall never forget that beyond those limits may lie an infinitude of worlds, indeed there is.

So what are you suggesting with this information?
bladerunner060 | bsh1 , 2014! Presidency campaign!

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Fruitytree
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5/6/2013 8:57:38 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/6/2013 8:19:46 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 5/6/2013 8:14:28 AM, Fruitytree wrote:

Well from Abrahamic religions perspective, The test is all about believing without seeing with your eyes , or hearing with your ears, so you can know without scientific evidence just with reasoning. The point of the test.

So belief through ignorance?

Reread my full reply, My sentences have been displayed like your quotations I'm not sure if you noticed.
AlbinoBunny
Posts: 3,781
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5/6/2013 9:01:13 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/6/2013 8:57:38 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 5/6/2013 8:19:46 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 5/6/2013 8:14:28 AM, Fruitytree wrote:

Well from Abrahamic religions perspective, The test is all about believing without seeing with your eyes , or hearing with your ears, so you can know without scientific evidence just with reasoning. The point of the test.

So belief through ignorance?

Reread my full reply, My sentences have been displayed like your quotations I'm not sure if you noticed.

That was your full reply.
bladerunner060 | bsh1 , 2014! Presidency campaign!

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Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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5/6/2013 9:07:45 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/6/2013 8:14:28 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 5/6/2013 7:39:50 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 5/6/2013 7:26:16 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
Well by evidence you mean scientific evidence it seems, not reasoning.

Scientific, mathematical, maybe logical. Some people claim there is no way to know of a deities existence.
well to me it is possible to prove it logically, and also through scientifically proving what came in the scriptures.

Science studies matter and energy that God made, He is not in the universe to be reached and studied, but we may eventually study his agents : Angels ( made of light) , Devils ( made of fire) maybe those could be detected and eventually studied. they are invisible to us so far.

We don't need to be able to study a deity directly to be able to study it. We could somehow be able to study deities indirectly via the universe.
Well yes eventually, but not all people will agree that they do exist if they don't see God, some people need to see miracles to believe.
Invisible, or non-existent? How do you decide which?
Well it is tricky .something that is real should have traces, a "fingerprint" , so we need to find those traces.

The evidence can also be the truths in the scriptures, so far a lot of truths have been proven, and some have not yet.

So how accurate a writing is? You know that there are many ways to make writings seem accurate?

Well not that easy, you are invited to give details about universe that we do not know yet and put them in a book and you'll see. besides scriptures , do you know any other books that gave true scientific theories plainly as truths.
Yes that would be too easy if we could.

Really?

Well from Abrahamic religions perspective, The test is all about believing without seeing with your eyes , or hearing with your ears, so you can know without scientific evidence just with reasoning. The point of the test.
AlbinoBunny
Posts: 3,781
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5/6/2013 9:13:21 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/6/2013 9:07:45 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 5/6/2013 8:14:28 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 5/6/2013 7:39:50 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 5/6/2013 7:26:16 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
Well by evidence you mean scientific evidence it seems, not reasoning.

Scientific, mathematical, maybe logical. Some people claim there is no way to know of a deities existence.
well to me it is possible to prove it logically, and also through scientifically proving what came in the scriptures.

Science studies matter and energy that God made, He is not in the universe to be reached and studied, but we may eventually study his agents : Angels ( made of light) , Devils ( made of fire) maybe those could be detected and eventually studied. they are invisible to us so far.

We don't need to be able to study a deity directly to be able to study it. We could somehow be able to study deities indirectly via the universe.
Well yes eventually, but not all people will agree that they do exist if they don't see God, some people need to see miracles to believe.
Invisible, or non-existent? How do you decide which?
Well it is tricky .something that is real should have traces, a "fingerprint" , so we need to find those traces.

The evidence can also be the truths in the scriptures, so far a lot of truths have been proven, and some have not yet.

So how accurate a writing is? You know that there are many ways to make writings seem accurate?

Well not that easy, you are invited to give details about universe that we do not know yet and put them in a book and you'll see. besides scriptures , do you know any other books that gave true scientific theories plainly as truths.
Yes that would be too easy if we could.

Really?

Well from Abrahamic religions perspective, The test is all about believing without seeing with your eyes , or hearing with your ears, so you can know without scientific evidence just with reasoning. The point of the test.

Does this make any difference?
bladerunner060 | bsh1 , 2014! Presidency campaign!

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Rational_Thinker9119
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5/6/2013 9:20:00 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/6/2013 6:13:52 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
A lot of people claim we won't find evidence and/or proof for deities. People claim we can't use science to find "God".

How do they know? It could be possible. Or would they just rather that it was impossible?

We just have to look at the universe we live in for the evidence. A universe designed by a God would only need only planet not billions of galaxies. Even though efficiency has no meaning to an all powerful God, the "extra"ness of the universe sets off red-flags that this place was for us regardless. If life kicked off by the elements of nature mixed with chance, then there would need to be billions of years of "trials" per say. With countless dead planets and galaxies which just so happened to kick off life finally billions of years after the universe's birth by dumb luck. If we look at our universe, the evidence seems to suggest there is no God. Also, if there was a moral giver then there should be some kind of naturalistic law built in reality like Karma a long with Heaven and Hell. If I did someone wrong, I got sick or something like that. The fact that only human beings seem to give moral law between themselves (the court system, police ect...) while there is no evidence of any enforcing of moral law in the universe. If there was a God then everybody who talks to him should get consistent messages. If there was not a God, then people who claimed to talk to him would have contradicting messages. Which one fits reality more? If God exists, then unembodied conciousness is possible and this is preferable to brains producing consciousness (which always have to be fed with food any oxygen). If God did not exist, then the only way to gain consciousness naturally would be through something like a brain. Basically, there could be evidence for God. The problem is that either God exists, or he designed the universe to look EXACT like it should if there was no God.
pozessed
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5/6/2013 9:21:29 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/6/2013 6:13:52 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
A lot of people claim we won't find evidence and/or proof for deities. People claim we can't use science to find "God".

How do they know? It could be possible. Or would they just rather that it was impossible?

What would you consider to be the most minimal but adequate proof?
Rational_Thinker9119
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5/6/2013 9:21:30 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
(correction)

*The problem is that either God does not exist, or he designed the universe to look EXACT like it should if there was no God.
AlbinoBunny
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5/6/2013 9:26:57 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/6/2013 9:21:29 AM, pozessed wrote:
At 5/6/2013 6:13:52 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
A lot of people claim we won't find evidence and/or proof for deities. People claim we can't use science to find "God".

How do they know? It could be possible. Or would they just rather that it was impossible?

What would you consider to be the most minimal but adequate proof?

No idea. I'll know when I see it.
bladerunner060 | bsh1 , 2014! Presidency campaign!

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medv4380
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5/6/2013 9:50:52 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/6/2013 6:13:52 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
A lot of people claim we won't find evidence and/or proof for deities. People claim we can't use science to find "God".

How do they know? It could be possible. Or would they just rather that it was impossible?

It depends on the definition used for God or Deity. If you use the definition of a being outside of reality then there is a possibility that you'd never find the proof you need within our reality, and arguments that we can get outside of our reality tend to be paradoxical.

This type of problem isn't isolated to God. Take String Theory. It's a nice mathematical theory, but because Strings are defined as infinity thin there is no test that could be done to detect them. So it can only be an un-testable scientific hypothesis.

I view that as long as you stay away from the un-provable definitions of God you can prove or disprove a deities existence within the confines of realism. However, that could fall to any anti-realism argument, and there are several scientific arguments against realism. Since people don't like to surrender realism it's not a common argument to encounter.
AlbinoBunny
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5/6/2013 10:08:53 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/6/2013 9:50:52 AM, medv4380 wrote:
At 5/6/2013 6:13:52 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
A lot of people claim we won't find evidence and/or proof for deities. People claim we can't use science to find "God".

How do they know? It could be possible. Or would they just rather that it was impossible?

It depends on the definition used for God or Deity. If you use the definition of a being outside of reality then there is a possibility that you'd never find the proof you need within our reality, and arguments that we can get outside of our reality tend to be paradoxical.

This type of problem isn't isolated to God. Take String Theory. It's a nice mathematical theory, but because Strings are defined as infinity thin there is no test that could be done to detect them. So it can only be an un-testable scientific hypothesis.

So you think there is no way they can test for String-theory?


I view that as long as you stay away from the un-provable definitions of God you can prove or disprove a deities existence within the confines of realism. However, that could fall to any anti-realism argument, and there are several scientific arguments against realism. Since people don't like to surrender realism it's not a common argument to encounter.

Several scientific arguments against realism, such as?
bladerunner060 | bsh1 , 2014! Presidency campaign!

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medv4380
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5/6/2013 10:53:21 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/6/2013 10:08:53 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
So you think there is no way they can test for String-theory?

Several scientific arguments against realism, such as?

As it stands String Theory attempts to merge Quantum Mechanics and Relativity. Everything it states that is testable is in both of those theories. What it brings new to the table is strings to merge both theories. Now try to imagine a circle where the line representing it is infinity thin. It's hard to imagine because we draw lines with thickness in order to see them, but if it's infinity thin then it couldn't be seen from any angle or directly interacted with. By the time any interaction Strings have with each other gets large enough to see it becomes Quantum Mechanics, or Relativity.

Bells Theorem is usually where anti-realism arguments start in science. With Bells Inequalities you're left needing to reject locality, realism, or both. If you reject locality then you're also rejecting causality since they are both related. Accepting non-local causation is difficult, and counter intuitive, and is the main reason Quantum Physicist and Relativists don't get along. People get to that point in Quantum Physics and give up going back to Relativity, or they embrace the madness and continue with Quantum Physics. Rejecting realism usually results in something like the Consciousnesses causes collapse hypothesis. With that everything you see and hear didn't exist until you were born, or whomever you want pick as the first Consciousness. With that there may not have been any past until your mind came into being via random chance.

People don't like thinking that way because it's counter intuitive. Even Einstein abandoned quantum physics because he didn't like the possibility it might be right, and wouldn't give up locality, or realism.
AlbinoBunny
Posts: 3,781
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5/6/2013 11:11:11 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/6/2013 10:53:21 AM, medv4380 wrote:
At 5/6/2013 10:08:53 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
So you think there is no way they can test for String-theory?

Several scientific arguments against realism, such as?

As it stands String Theory attempts to merge Quantum Mechanics and Relativity. Everything it states that is testable is in both of those theories. What it brings new to the table is strings to merge both theories. Now try to imagine a circle where the line representing it is infinity thin. It's hard to imagine because we draw lines with thickness in order to see them, but if it's infinity thin then it couldn't be seen from any angle or directly interacted with. By the time any interaction Strings have with each other gets large enough to see it becomes Quantum Mechanics, or Relativity.

Bells Theorem is usually where anti-realism arguments start in science. With Bells Inequalities you're left needing to reject locality, realism, or both. If you reject locality then you're also rejecting causality since they are both related. Accepting non-local causation is difficult, and counter intuitive, and is the main reason Quantum Physicist and Relativists don't get along. People get to that point in Quantum Physics and give up going back to Relativity, or they embrace the madness and continue with Quantum Physics. Rejecting realism usually results in something like the Consciousnesses causes collapse hypothesis. With that everything you see and hear didn't exist until you were born, or whomever you want pick as the first Consciousness. With that there may not have been any past until your mind came into being via random chance.

People don't like thinking that way because it's counter intuitive. Even Einstein abandoned quantum physics because he didn't like the possibility it might be right, and wouldn't give up locality, or realism.

Non-locality ftw.
bladerunner060 | bsh1 , 2014! Presidency campaign!

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http://www.debate.org... - Running for president.
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Radar
Posts: 424
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5/6/2013 11:15:23 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/6/2013 6:13:52 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
A lot of people claim we won't find evidence and/or proof for deities. People claim we can't use science to find "God".

How do they know? It could be possible. Or would they just rather that it was impossible?

Nothing is more difficult to prove than the existence of water to a fish.
AlbinoBunny
Posts: 3,781
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5/6/2013 11:17:57 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/6/2013 11:15:23 AM, Radar wrote:
At 5/6/2013 6:13:52 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
A lot of people claim we won't find evidence and/or proof for deities. People claim we can't use science to find "God".

How do they know? It could be possible. Or would they just rather that it was impossible?

Nothing is more difficult to prove than the existence of water to a fish.

That doesn't sound difficult, except for the fish part of course.
bladerunner060 | bsh1 , 2014! Presidency campaign!

http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org... - Running for president.
http://www.debate.org... - Running as his vice president.

May the best man win!