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-------NEW Religion Thought Experiment-------

Wallstreetatheist
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5/6/2013 10:39:16 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Imagine every religion and its history are extinguished from the Earth today. People have no memory of them ever existing; however, new religions may form freely. In what ways would they differ from previous religions? Why?
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drhead
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5/6/2013 10:51:40 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/6/2013 10:39:16 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
Imagine every religion and its history are extinguished from the Earth today. People have no memory of them ever existing; however, new religions may form freely. In what ways would they differ from previous religions? Why?

I think that they would more rely on answering the purpose of our existence or would exhibit more humanistic traits, since we have some actual good answers to the questions which religion has previously been used to resolve. For example, we know how stars are created, and we know that our sun is not drawn across the sky by a chariot.

I do snicker a bit at the thought of a Church of String Theory or something similar, though.
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"You reject religion... calling it a sickness, to what ends??? Are you a Homosexual??" - Dogknox
"For me, Evolution is a zombie theory. I mean imaginary cartoons and wishful thinking support it?" - Dragonfang
"There are no mental health benefits of atheism. It is devoid of rational thinking and mental protection." - Gabrian
Nur-Ab-Sal
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5/6/2013 10:54:48 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Well, if metaphysics survived, then it's only a matter of time before theistic conclusions are reached. Perhaps without revelation, classical theism will survive.
Genesis I. And God created man to his own image: to the image of God he created him: male and female he created them.
Wallstreetatheist
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5/6/2013 11:01:32 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/6/2013 10:54:48 PM, Nur-Ab-Sal wrote:
Well, if metaphysics survived, then it's only a matter of time before theistic conclusions are reached. Perhaps without revelation, classical theism will survive.

Metaphysics has near zero relevance to the reasons why most people practice religion and believe in God.
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kohadril
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5/6/2013 11:05:29 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I do snicker a bit at the thought of a Church of String Theory or something similar, though.

The M-Theory heresy is nothing to snicker about! All who doubt the unidimensionality of strings and who make false idols of M-branes shall be cursed with quantum unluckiness until they repent! Greene be praised!
dylancatlow
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5/6/2013 11:09:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I'm reluctant to say religions would even form - at least in the developed world. Religions are primitive philosophies taken with us from our primitive days, and I think they continue to exist largely just because of their momentum. This may just be wishful thinking...
Nur-Ab-Sal
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5/6/2013 11:14:57 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/6/2013 11:01:32 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 5/6/2013 10:54:48 PM, Nur-Ab-Sal wrote:
Well, if metaphysics survived, then it's only a matter of time before theistic conclusions are reached. Perhaps without revelation, classical theism will survive.

Metaphysics has near zero relevance to the reasons why most people practice religion and believe in God.

Yah, cool, that's why I said "survive" and not "survive with its previous popularity"; besides, classical theism is a philosophical position irrespective of a specific religion.
Genesis I. And God created man to his own image: to the image of God he created him: male and female he created them.
kohadril
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5/6/2013 11:21:28 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
classical theism is a philosophical position irrespective of a specific religion.
Not sure this is necessarily the case; deism and philosophical theism might never have posited a deity but for the preexistence of local theistic religions. The Platonic Prime Mover, for instance, doesn't have to be an intelligent being capable of intent. However, human intuitive psychology will reliably try to discern intention even where there is none, so you're probably right that various theistic positions would probably reemerge.
Nur-Ab-Sal
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5/6/2013 11:27:20 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/6/2013 11:21:28 PM, kohadril wrote:
classical theism is a philosophical position irrespective of a specific religion.
Not sure this is necessarily the case; deism and philosophical theism might never have posited a deity but for the preexistence of local theistic religions.

The classical theistic God is irrespective of religion in the sense that it doesn't rely on certain tenets or revelation within religion as a source of its existence. This is what I meant here.

The Platonic Prime Mover, for instance, doesn't have to be an intelligent being capable of intent.

Yeah, if you're talking about the Aristotelian/Thomistic prime mover, then yeah, within Aristotelian metaphysics, it necessarily is an intelligent being, since it's the actuality of intelligence; the actuality of power, etc. Plato's argument was a bit more mystical than Aristotle's, and I don't even consider him a classical theist.

However, human intuitive psychology will reliably try to discern intention even where there is none, so you're probably right that various theistic positions would probably reemerge.

Yeah. Sure. I agree.
Genesis I. And God created man to his own image: to the image of God he created him: male and female he created them.
medic0506
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5/6/2013 11:36:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/6/2013 10:39:16 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
Imagine every religion and its history are extinguished from the Earth today. People have no memory of them ever existing; however, new religions may form freely. In what ways would they differ from previous religions? Why?

I think it would immediately come back. Knowledge of God is innate in all of us.
Wallstreetatheist
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5/6/2013 11:54:37 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/6/2013 11:14:57 PM, Nur-Ab-Sal wrote:
At 5/6/2013 11:01:32 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 5/6/2013 10:54:48 PM, Nur-Ab-Sal wrote:
Well, if metaphysics survived, then it's only a matter of time before theistic conclusions are reached. Perhaps without revelation, classical theism will survive.

Metaphysics has near zero relevance to the reasons why most people practice religion and believe in God.

Yah, cool, that's why I said "survive" and not "survive with its previous popularity"; besides, classical theism is a philosophical position irrespective of a specific religion.

In other words you didn't answer the question.
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Wallstreetatheist
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5/7/2013 12:02:26 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/6/2013 11:36:38 PM, medic0506 wrote:
I think it would immediately come back. Knowledge of God is innate in all of us.

What is 'it'? Obviously the religions the formed during the bronze age would be noticeably different that religions that could form in this thought experiment; I'm asking in what ways those religions would be different, not if they would form. I'll be the first to admit that religions would form if the existing ones evaporated.
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Marauder
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5/7/2013 12:18:57 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/6/2013 10:39:16 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
Imagine every religion and its history are extinguished from the Earth today. People have no memory of them ever existing; however, new religions may form freely. In what ways would they differ from previous religions? Why?

your question kind of doesn't allow room for participating in the thought experiment while allowing for the possibility that any of the current religions are in fact true. if one is based in truth then even if you wipe away the worlds memory of the truth the truth itself is not wiped away. God continues to exist whether people would know about him or not, and even if every bible were burned there still would have been a Daniel who existed that survived the lions Den.

Anyway I'm inclined to believe whatever the truth may be, it would survive in some form, God would ensure of it given that he is real. the specifics of what change all hinge on exactly what you would count as history that got erased.

for example is the secular Christmas stories like Rudolf and Frosty erased from history? even when they build off of holiday celebrations that gets its traditions not only from Christianity but from pagan religions as well?

To play along with the nature of this thought experiment though, if suddenly all the established religions were lost for whatever reason and people of faith had to start figureing things out on there own as the Greek Pagans did that came up with Gods like Zeus and Hermes, I think I believe the people today would elevate Santa's status to that of Zeus and you would get a new pantheon that looks like this....

1) Santa
2) Easter Bunny
3) Cupid
4) Merlin as a Leprechaun
5) George Washington
6) Grim Reaper
7) and a Turkey Girl Goddess that has a story borrowed from a few Native American tales.

in the same order they would all correspond with these planets and holidays

1) Christmas, Jupiter
2) Easter, Mercury
3) Valentines day, Venus
4) Saint Patrick's Day, the Sun
5) Independence Day, Mars
6) Halloween, Saturn
7) Thanksgiving, the Moon.

I know the Sun and the Moon are not planets....but they used to be considered planets and I imaginatively came up with this using the same old model for Roman God's that C.S. Lewis used as a hidden theme in his Narnia Books. each of his books uses imagery from one of those 'planets'.
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

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Apeiron
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5/7/2013 12:21:08 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
This is a good question. Plato's Allegory of the Cave alludes to something like were someone to break free of their existence in a cave of only shadows and see the world and the sun and so forth, they would have instantly inferred (not from argument) the divinity of the world. The dialogue sort of hints both at the realm of forms as well as the apparent design in the world, and I think it's something everyone has the right to infer a designer within the absence of a defeater for that basic belief. What Darwinism did was offer a defeat for divine design, but recently it's been argued that Darwin's naturalism presupposition itself cannot be believed if evolution is true, thereby leaving one rational to affirm design still.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

So at least folks would probably still believe in a designer deity and perhaps reflecting on their moral lives they'd consider somehow their guilt before this deity and so forth. But apart from that Christian particularism's out of the question since the Gospel documents and the history behind Christ's actual life and testimony as well as the evidence for his resurrection would be lost, given the axioms in your scenario.
Nur-Ab-Sal
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5/7/2013 12:23:41 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/6/2013 11:54:37 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 5/6/2013 11:14:57 PM, Nur-Ab-Sal wrote:
At 5/6/2013 11:01:32 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 5/6/2013 10:54:48 PM, Nur-Ab-Sal wrote:
Well, if metaphysics survived, then it's only a matter of time before theistic conclusions are reached. Perhaps without revelation, classical theism will survive.

Metaphysics has near zero relevance to the reasons why most people practice religion and believe in God.

Yah, cool, that's why I said "survive" and not "survive with its previous popularity"; besides, classical theism is a philosophical position irrespective of a specific religion.

In other words you didn't answer the question.

My entire goal was to show that the God of classical theism would survive as an idea philosophically, since it's not based in any revelation.
Genesis I. And God created man to his own image: to the image of God he created him: male and female he created them.
Wallstreetatheist
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5/7/2013 12:30:11 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/7/2013 12:23:41 AM, Nur-Ab-Sal wrote:
My entire goal was to show that the God of classical theism would survive as an idea philosophically, since it's not based in any revelation.

That's perfectly valid. Can you please address the OP as well?
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Nur-Ab-Sal
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5/7/2013 12:34:01 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/7/2013 12:30:11 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 5/7/2013 12:23:41 AM, Nur-Ab-Sal wrote:
My entire goal was to show that the God of classical theism would survive as an idea philosophically, since it's not based in any revelation.

That's perfectly valid. Can you please address the OP as well?

...I did. I'm just pointing out that a specific element of religion will survive. Are you trying to extract something else?
Genesis I. And God created man to his own image: to the image of God he created him: male and female he created them.
v3nesl
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5/7/2013 7:00:25 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/6/2013 10:39:16 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
Imagine every religion and its history are extinguished from the Earth today. People have no memory of them ever existing; however, new religions may form freely. In what ways would they differ from previous religions? Why?

I would say that modern western liberalism is the answer to the question. That is the belief system that the west has invented to replace God. Sounds crazy to some, I'm sure, but I say this based on years of observation.

And another thing moderns may not think of: If modern religious substitutes develop without a deity, that may suggest that theism came about by revelation, by knowledge, rather than as a human invention.
This space for rent.
Fruitytree
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5/7/2013 7:29:49 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I wouldn't follow any religion without evidence that it comes from God the creator.

I know this is not your question, the religions that could emerge by this time would be mostly something immoral I guess, loving Idols hehe (like pop stars) , inviting to break taboos that haven't been enough broken.

and few maybe conservative, cause some people still have pure instinct of what is evil and what is good.
slo1
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5/7/2013 9:05:33 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
1. There are always people looking for power.
2. Small sects would be set up by people looking for power. There would be a vast expanse of beliefs from the Church of the Fonz (happy days) to the Church of Prancing Naked God, among others.

3. Overtime they would be consolidated and a few that did the best with producing mysterious yet believable sacred text would rise to the top. (Think Mormon)

4. Wars would be fought, people would be just as bad to each other who are not in their "circle" or "in group".

In short pretty much the same, because we can always count on human the human condition which causes all of us to have incompatible, diverse, and more often wrong beliefs than truthful beliefs.
The conditions that cause this are.
- Strong opinions based upon assumption and other opinion rather than fact.
- A reluctance to over turn held opinions.
- Desire for many to hold power over others.
- Desire for many to want to be part of a larger "in group" or community.
Wallstreetatheist
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5/7/2013 2:43:50 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/7/2013 12:34:01 AM, Nur-Ab-Sal wrote:
At 5/7/2013 12:30:11 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 5/7/2013 12:23:41 AM, Nur-Ab-Sal wrote:
My entire goal was to show that the God of classical theism would survive as an idea philosophically, since it's not based in any revelation.

That's perfectly valid. Can you please address the OP as well?

...I did. I'm just pointing out that a specific element of religion will survive. Are you trying to extract something else?

O____O
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Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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5/7/2013 2:49:25 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/6/2013 10:39:16 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
Imagine every religion and its history are extinguished from the Earth today. People have no memory of them ever existing; however, new religions may form freely. In what ways would they differ from previous religions? Why?

"Imagine every religion and its history are extinguished from the Earth today. People have no memory of them ever existing; however, new religions may form freely. In what ways would they differ from previous religions? Why?"

They would be based around an ultimate quantum mind I would suppose.
medic0506
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5/7/2013 2:59:51 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/7/2013 12:02:26 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 5/6/2013 11:36:38 PM, medic0506 wrote:
I think it would immediately come back. Knowledge of God is innate in all of us.

What is 'it'? Obviously the religions the formed during the bronze age would be noticeably different that religions that could form in this thought experiment; I'm asking in what ways those religions would be different, not if they would form. I'll be the first to admit that religions would form if the existing ones evaporated.

Sorry. "It" would mean Christianity. If the world were somehow totally rid of all knowledge of Christianity and the Bible, God would obviously find those who are capable of carrying the message in modern days, just as He did in earlier times. The new Bible may or may not be an updated version, but would certainly include the same historical view of Genesis, the Crucifixion, Revelation, etc.
Nur-Ab-Sal
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5/7/2013 3:21:32 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/7/2013 2:43:50 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 5/7/2013 12:34:01 AM, Nur-Ab-Sal wrote:
At 5/7/2013 12:30:11 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 5/7/2013 12:23:41 AM, Nur-Ab-Sal wrote:
My entire goal was to show that the God of classical theism would survive as an idea philosophically, since it's not based in any revelation.

That's perfectly valid. Can you please address the OP as well?

...I did. I'm just pointing out that a specific element of religion will survive. Are you trying to extract something else?

O____O

My intention wasn't to theorize based on very little information on what new religions would emerge from such a catastrophe. My intention was only to show that a specific element of religion would survive as a philosophical idea, an element which preserves a view of God compatible with all of the major monotheistic religions of today.
Genesis I. And God created man to his own image: to the image of God he created him: male and female he created them.
Wallstreetatheist
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5/7/2013 3:48:24 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/7/2013 2:59:51 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 5/7/2013 12:02:26 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 5/6/2013 11:36:38 PM, medic0506 wrote:
I think it would immediately come back. Knowledge of God is innate in all of us.

What is 'it'? Obviously the religions the formed during the bronze age would be noticeably different that religions that could form in this thought experiment; I'm asking in what ways those religions would be different, not if they would form. I'll be the first to admit that religions would form if the existing ones evaporated.

Sorry. "It" would mean Christianity. If the world were somehow totally rid of all knowledge of Christianity and the Bible, God would obviously find those who are capable of carrying the message in modern days, just as He did in earlier times. The new Bible may or may not be an updated version, but would certainly include the same historical view of Genesis, the Crucifixion, Revelation, etc.

Just now realizing that my question presupposes God doesn't exist. Your response would probably be the same format if I asked a devout Muslim, Jew, or Hindu. I guess this question is better addressed to atheists.
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YYW
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5/7/2013 5:49:18 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/6/2013 10:39:16 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
Imagine every religion and its history are extinguished from the Earth today. People have no memory of them ever existing; however, new religions may form freely. In what ways would they differ from previous religions? Why?

Because I am that guy:
Tsar of DDO
Wallstreetatheist
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5/7/2013 5:54:40 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/7/2013 5:49:18 PM, YYW wrote:
At 5/6/2013 10:39:16 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
Imagine every religion and its history are extinguished from the Earth today. People have no memory of them ever existing; however, new religions may form freely. In what ways would they differ from previous religions? Why?

Because I am that guy:

Could you share the acid tabs please? In my scenario religions may form naturally, but they would clearly differ from the three violent monotheisms and other previous world religions. How would they differ?
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drhead
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5/7/2013 7:09:32 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/7/2013 7:00:25 AM, v3nesl wrote:
At 5/6/2013 10:39:16 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
Imagine every religion and its history are extinguished from the Earth today. People have no memory of them ever existing; however, new religions may form freely. In what ways would they differ from previous religions? Why?

I would say that modern western liberalism is the answer to the question. That is the belief system that the west has invented to replace God. Sounds crazy to some, I'm sure, but I say this based on years of observation.

And another thing moderns may not think of: If modern religious substitutes develop without a deity, that may suggest that theism came about by revelation, by knowledge, rather than as a human invention.

I think secular humanism is a bit of a better fit for that description: http://en.wikipedia.org...
While it has traits in common with modern scientific liberalism, liberalism is more of a political view. Humanism is the more relevant one, since it is a view on the basis of morality.
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"You reject religion... calling it a sickness, to what ends??? Are you a Homosexual??" - Dogknox
"For me, Evolution is a zombie theory. I mean imaginary cartoons and wishful thinking support it?" - Dragonfang
"There are no mental health benefits of atheism. It is devoid of rational thinking and mental protection." - Gabrian