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Good response to the problem of evil

Anti-atheist
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5/7/2013 7:23:05 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
So if evil exists god doesn't. K but prove evil exists? How do you know kids are really starving in africa? Whatif its just an illusion not really real. You cant prove evil is happening to others so we have to go by ourselves. But you only know if somethings evil if you compare it to other things. u cannot do it because we dont know if evil exists
Anti-atheist

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Pennington
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5/7/2013 7:24:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/7/2013 7:23:05 PM, Anti-atheist wrote:
So if evil exists god doesn't. K but prove evil exists? How do you know kids are really starving in africa? Whatif its just an illusion not really real. You cant prove evil is happening to others so we have to go by ourselves. But you only know if somethings evil if you compare it to other things. u cannot do it because we dont know if evil exists

Does God and the Bible exist?
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Anti-atheist
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5/7/2013 7:26:16 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/7/2013 7:24:41 PM, Pennington wrote:
At 5/7/2013 7:23:05 PM, Anti-atheist wrote:
So if evil exists god doesn't. K but prove evil exists? How do you know kids are really starving in africa? Whatif its just an illusion not really real. You cant prove evil is happening to others so we have to go by ourselves. But you only know if somethings evil if you compare it to other things. u cannot do it because we dont know if evil exists

Does God and the Bible exist?

yes
Anti-atheist

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Pennington
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5/7/2013 7:27:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/7/2013 7:26:16 PM, Anti-atheist wrote:
At 5/7/2013 7:24:41 PM, Pennington wrote:
At 5/7/2013 7:23:05 PM, Anti-atheist wrote:
So if evil exists god doesn't. K but prove evil exists? How do you know kids are really starving in africa? Whatif its just an illusion not really real. You cant prove evil is happening to others so we have to go by ourselves. But you only know if somethings evil if you compare it to other things. u cannot do it because we dont know if evil exists

Does God and the Bible exist?

yes

Therefore, Sin does exist if God exist and the Bible is true.
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Anti-atheist
Posts: 213
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5/7/2013 7:29:56 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/7/2013 7:27:41 PM, Pennington wrote:
At 5/7/2013 7:26:16 PM, Anti-atheist wrote:
At 5/7/2013 7:24:41 PM, Pennington wrote:
At 5/7/2013 7:23:05 PM, Anti-atheist wrote:
So if evil exists god doesn't. K but prove evil exists? How do you know kids are really starving in africa? Whatif its just an illusion not really real. You cant prove evil is happening to others so we have to go by ourselves. But you only know if somethings evil if you compare it to other things. u cannot do it because we dont know if evil exists

Does God and the Bible exist?

yes

Therefore, Sin does exist if God exist and the Bible is true.

Sin isnt evil as the atheists are reffering too.
Anti-atheist

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tulle
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5/7/2013 7:30:12 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/7/2013 7:23:05 PM, Anti-atheist wrote:
So if evil exists god doesn't. K but prove evil exists? How do you know kids are really starving in africa? Whatif its just an illusion not really real. You cant prove evil is happening to others so we have to go by ourselves. But you only know if somethings evil if you compare it to other things. u cannot do it because we dont know if evil exists

lol Against my better judgement I'm going to respond to this.

Firstly, the problem of evil concludes that an omnipotent, omniscient, and benevolent God doesn't exist.

Secondly, kids starving in Africa can be easily proven by going to Africa.

Thirdly, if you just open your eyes and look around you will see evil. We have "good" to compare with evil---we can and we do because evil exists??
yang.
Anti-atheist
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5/7/2013 7:31:52 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/7/2013 7:30:12 PM, tulle wrote:
At 5/7/2013 7:23:05 PM, Anti-atheist wrote:
So if evil exists god doesn't. K but prove evil exists? How do you know kids are really starving in africa? Whatif its just an illusion not really real. You cant prove evil is happening to others so we have to go by ourselves. But you only know if somethings evil if you compare it to other things. u cannot do it because we dont know if evil exists

lol Against my better judgement I'm going to respond to this.

Firstly, the problem of evil concludes that an omnipotent, omniscient, and benevolent God doesn't exist.

Secondly, kids starving in Africa can be easily proven by going to Africa.

Thirdly, if you just open your eyes and look around you will see evil. We have "good" to compare with evil---we can and we do because evil exists??

Ever been to afriaca? How do u know there starving? How do u know your seeing good.
Anti-atheist

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tulle
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5/7/2013 7:35:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/7/2013 7:31:52 PM, Anti-atheist wrote:

Ever been to afriaca?

Yes. Regardless, Africa is not the only place to see evil.

How do u know there starving? How do u know your seeing good.

Whose ethical code makes starving children a good thing?
yang.
s-anthony
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5/7/2013 9:36:45 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/7/2013 7:23:05 PM, Anti-atheist wrote:
So if evil exists god doesn't. K but prove evil exists? How do you know kids are really starving in africa? Whatif its just an illusion not really real. You cant prove evil is happening to others so we have to go by ourselves. But you only know if somethings evil if you compare it to other things. u cannot do it because we dont know if evil exists

The existence of evil is not in question, but rather moral absolutes. If evil were completely evil, then, there would be not a single instance in which it were not. For example, most religions are in agreement with the statement, that, murder is evil, however not in every case. Most religions condone murder when it leads to the protection or advancement of one society or culture over that of another, as in the case of capital punishment and war. This, of necessity, makes murder evil only in context; in other words, it's a relative evil.

So, the statement, if evil exists, then, God doesn't; for, God's being good would prevent all evil, would only ring true in as much as evil exists. So, that would lead us to deduce, in that evil does not exist in every situation and at all times neither does God.
Fruitytree
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5/8/2013 3:18:54 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
What is the reason you believe God and evil can not both exist ?!

Isn't god the creator of Good and evil, what is the name of the tree Adam and Eve ate from ? The reason you guys differ is because you think God loves you all and is only able to create good ! that is the true problem.
Rational_Thinker9119
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5/8/2013 7:05:11 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/7/2013 7:23:05 PM, Anti-atheist wrote:
So if evil exists god doesn't. K but prove evil exists? How do you know kids are really starving in africa? Whatif its just an illusion not really real. You cant prove evil is happening to others so we have to go by ourselves. But you only know if somethings evil if you compare it to other things. u cannot do it because we dont know if evil exists

Well, I'm stumped....No more problem of evil folks.....
Rational_Thinker9119
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5/8/2013 7:07:59 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
There is no good response to the problem of evil. If God exists he cannot choose evil, but has free will. Thus, it is possible to have free will and not be able to commit evil. And omnibenevolent God when choosing between:

i) Free will that allows one to commit evil
ii) Free will that does not allow one to commit evil.

He would go with ii) due to his omnibenevolent nature. Since we have the free will that leads to evil, then we know we were not put here by an omnibenevolent being.
Rational_Thinker9119
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5/8/2013 7:12:56 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
If the theist says the ability to do evil is required for free will, they contradict their own God:

A being who cannot commit evil, but has free will.
Pennington
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5/8/2013 7:25:59 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/8/2013 7:07:59 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
There is no good response to the problem of evil. If God exists he cannot choose evil, but has free will. Thus, it is possible to have free will and not be able to commit evil.:

Yes there is but that does not mean the agent with free-will will not choose evil opposed to good.

And omnibenevolent God when choosing between:

i) Free will that allows one to commit evil
ii) Free will that does not allow one to commit evil.

He would go with ii) due to his omnibenevolent nature. Since we have the free will that leads to evil, then we know we were not put here by an omnibenevolent being.

No, you consistently refuse the act of love. Maybe you do not know what real love is. Real love allows you to freely live the way you choose or it would not be freedom. That is omnibenevolent. You suggest well since we cannot live without sin then it is God's fault because He did not make me like a robot without freedom. Childish point of view if you ask me. Passing the buck.
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Pennington
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5/8/2013 7:27:24 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/8/2013 7:12:56 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
If the theist says the ability to do evil is required for free will, they contradict their own God:

A being who cannot commit evil, but has free will.

No, You can choose not to do evil with your free-will. You are saying because someone, even God, who has free-will has to do evil. Absurd.
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Rational_Thinker9119
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5/8/2013 7:29:39 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/8/2013 7:25:59 AM, Pennington wrote:
At 5/8/2013 7:07:59 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
There is no good response to the problem of evil. If God exists he cannot choose evil, but has free will. Thus, it is possible to have free will and not be able to commit evil.:

Yes there is but that does not mean the agent with free-will will not choose evil opposed to good.

A free-willed being can only choose evil, if it has the ability. If it does not have the ability, it cannot choose it. Since it is possible to not have the ability to commit evil and still have free-will, an ombibenevolent being would have given us that type of free will.


And omnibenevolent God when choosing between:

i) Free will that allows one to commit evil
ii) Free will that does not allow one to commit evil.

He would go with ii) due to his omnibenevolent nature. Since we have the free will that leads to evil, then we know we were not put here by an omnibenevolent being.

No, you consistently refuse the act of love.

What act of love? lol

Maybe you do not know what real love is. Real love allows you to freely live the way you choose or it would not be freedom.

Then God does not have free-will, as he cannot commit evil!

That is omnibenevolent. You suggest well since we cannot live without sin then it is God's fault because He did not make me like a robot without freedom. Childish point of view if you ask me. Passing the buck.

We are biological robots lol
Rational_Thinker9119
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5/8/2013 7:31:18 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/8/2013 7:27:24 AM, Pennington wrote:
At 5/8/2013 7:12:56 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
If the theist says the ability to do evil is required for free will, they contradict their own God:

A being who cannot commit evil, but has free will.

No, You can choose not to do evil with your free-will.

Not God. Thus, its possible to not have the ability to commit evil and have free will. An omnibenevolent being would have given us this type of free will. Thus, God does not exist.

You are saying because someone, even God, who has free-will has to do evil. Absurd.

Whats absurd is your special pleading! If the ability to do evil is required for free will, then God has to have this ability too. Look up the special pleading fallacy.
Rational_Thinker9119
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5/8/2013 7:32:37 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/8/2013 7:27:24 AM, Pennington wrote:
At 5/8/2013 7:12:56 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
If the theist says the ability to do evil is required for free will, they contradict their own God:

A being who cannot commit evil, but has free will.

No, You can choose not to do evil with your free-will. You are saying because someone, even God, who has free-will has to do evil. Absurd.

This is a straw man too. I did not say "commit evil", I said "ability to commit evil". Learn to read pennington lol
Rational_Thinker9119
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5/8/2013 7:34:47 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/8/2013 7:27:24 AM, Pennington wrote:
At 5/8/2013 7:12:56 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
If the theist says the ability to do evil is required for free will, they contradict their own God:

A being who cannot commit evil, but has free will.

No, You can choose not to do evil with your free-will. You are saying because someone, even God, who has free-will has to do evil. Absurd.

My point is that free-will can still exist without the ability to commit evil. Thus free-will does not dodge the problem of evil, as the ability to commit evil is nor required for free-will.
v3nesl
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5/8/2013 7:37:26 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/7/2013 7:23:05 PM, Anti-atheist wrote:
So if evil exists god doesn't. K but prove evil exists? How do you know kids are really starving in africa? Whatif its just an illusion not really real. You cant prove evil is happening to others so we have to go by ourselves. But you only know if somethings evil if you compare it to other things. u cannot do it because we dont know if evil exists

It was from C.S. Lewis that I first realized the inverse of this: Evil cannot exist without a reference of good. In other words, if man is an entirely natural being, where could he possibly have gotten the idea that some natural phenomena are not as they "should" be? Evil makes zero sense in a naturalist worldview. Some will try to define good and evil in terms of Darwinian survival, but that is simply to push the issue back by assuming that survival is the good, the thing that "should" be. And also remember that all of us have experienced a painful world, from day one. We've never known differently, so how could we possibly have this idea that things are not as they ought to be?

So, the PoE, upon closer examination, in fact proves that some external agent of good exists, one that has educated us. So, PoE remains a mystery, but one that must include God.
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Fruitytree
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5/8/2013 7:40:07 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/8/2013 7:32:37 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 5/8/2013 7:27:24 AM, Pennington wrote:
At 5/8/2013 7:12:56 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
If the theist says the ability to do evil is required for free will, they contradict their own God:

A being who cannot commit evil, but has free will.

No, You can choose not to do evil with your free-will. You are saying because someone, even God, who has free-will has to do evil. Absurd.

This is a straw man too. I did not say "commit evil", I said "ability to commit evil". Learn to read pennington lol

He is able of everything ! able of evil, doesn't mean he has to do evil if he chose not to.
Rational_Thinker9119
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5/8/2013 7:40:15 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Any "x amount of goodness in the long run" that may be the case because of the suffering God allows, could be plugged into the equation even if there was no suffering if we are dealing with an omnipotent God. Thus, the suffering is actually gratuitous because any amount goodness that could come from it, God could have just plugged into a different equation without the suffering. This is how we know some suffering is actually unnecessary. Besides logic and crap like that, everything is contingent upon God. Its not like ONLY is this suffering occurs can God get some "x" amount of goodness lol If God exists everything is contingent upon his design. He can get any amount of goodness he wants from suffering, or no suffering.
Fruitytree
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5/8/2013 7:41:25 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/8/2013 7:36:37 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
Any God in who plugs evil into the equation unnecessarily is a sick bastard.

Give an example of evil .
Rational_Thinker9119
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5/8/2013 7:41:32 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/8/2013 7:40:07 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 5/8/2013 7:32:37 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 5/8/2013 7:27:24 AM, Pennington wrote:
At 5/8/2013 7:12:56 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
If the theist says the ability to do evil is required for free will, they contradict their own God:

A being who cannot commit evil, but has free will.

No, You can choose not to do evil with your free-will. You are saying because someone, even God, who has free-will has to do evil. Absurd.

This is a straw man too. I did not say "commit evil", I said "ability to commit evil". Learn to read pennington lol

He is able of everything ! able of evil, doesn't mean he has to do evil if he chose not to.

No he is not. If he rapes a kid that is necessarily good, because everything he does is good if he exists. He is not able to commit evil!
v3nesl
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5/8/2013 7:42:49 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/8/2013 7:07:59 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
There is no good response to the problem of evil.

Sure there is, we just don't know what it is. There are limits to human reason, that's all. What kind of fool would think a quart of grey matter isn't going to be severely limited?
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Pennington
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5/8/2013 7:42:56 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/8/2013 7:29:39 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 5/8/2013 7:25:59 AM, Pennington wrote:
At 5/8/2013 7:07:59 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
There is no good response to the problem of evil. If God exists he cannot choose evil, but has free will. Thus, it is possible to have free will and not be able to commit evil.:

Yes there is but that does not mean the agent with free-will will not choose evil opposed to good.

A free-willed being can only choose evil, if it has the ability. If it does not have the ability, it cannot choose it. Since it is possible to not have the ability to commit evil and still have free-will, an ombibenevolent being would have given us that type of free will.

Hello, we did receive that and chose against it.

And omnibenevolent God when choosing between:

i) Free will that allows one to commit evil
ii) Free will that does not allow one to commit evil.

He would go with ii) due to his omnibenevolent nature. Since we have the free will that leads to evil, then we know we were not put here by an omnibenevolent being.

No, you consistently refuse the act of love.

What act of love? lol

My point. Do some reading on what love is and you would release this irrational train of thought. You think a dictator is better than free choice.

Maybe you do not know what real love is. Real love allows you to freely live the way you choose or it would not be freedom.

Then God does not have free-will, as he cannot commit evil!

I never said God has free-will. God cannot go against His nature but that does not mean creation cannot.

That is omnibenevolent. You suggest well since we cannot live without sin then it is God's fault because He did not make me like a robot without freedom. Childish point of view if you ask me. Passing the buck.

We are biological robots lol

No, your an enlightened sentient being and other animals are not. Think more of yourself.
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Rational_Thinker9119
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5/8/2013 7:46:38 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/8/2013 7:42:56 AM, Pennington wrote:
At 5/8/2013 7:29:39 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 5/8/2013 7:25:59 AM, Pennington wrote:
At 5/8/2013 7:07:59 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
There is no good response to the problem of evil. If God exists he cannot choose evil, but has free will. Thus, it is possible to have free will and not be able to commit evil.:

Yes there is but that does not mean the agent with free-will will not choose evil opposed to good.

A free-willed being can only choose evil, if it has the ability. If it does not have the ability, it cannot choose it. Since it is possible to not have the ability to commit evil and still have free-will, an ombibenevolent being would have given us that type of free will.

Hello, we did receive that and chose against it.

And omnibenevolent God when choosing between:

i) Free will that allows one to commit evil
ii) Free will that does not allow one to commit evil.

He would go with ii) due to his omnibenevolent nature. Since we have the free will that leads to evil, then we know we were not put here by an omnibenevolent being.

No, you consistently refuse the act of love.

What act of love? lol

My point. Do some reading on what love is and you would release this irrational train of thought. You think a dictator is better than free choice.

Maybe you do not know what real love is. Real love allows you to freely live the way you choose or it would not be freedom.

Then God does not have free-will, as he cannot commit evil!

I never said God has free-will. God cannot go against His nature but that does not mean creation cannot.

That is omnibenevolent. You suggest well since we cannot live without sin then it is God's fault because He did not make me like a robot without freedom. Childish point of view if you ask me. Passing the buck.

We are biological robots lol

No, your an enlightened sentient being and other animals are not. Think more of yourself.

"No, your an enlightened sentient being and other animals are not. Think more of yourself."

Enlightened? You mean I have a bigger and more complex brain; that is the only thing that makes us special. Besides that we are inferior to other animals. Chimps are four times stronger than us, crocodiles only need to eat once a month, dolphins never choke because they breath through a different hole they use to eat. One form of jelly fish can live forever. Bacteria are six times more evolved than us ect....
v3nesl
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5/8/2013 7:54:54 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/8/2013 7:36:37 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
Any God in who plugs evil into the equation unnecessarily is a sick bastard.

I doubt God ever "plugged evil in". I'd guess that evil is a sort of logical necessity, an uncreated logical inverse of God's nature. You cannot invent light, for instance, without simultaneously inventing the concept of darkness. One might say "But everything could be light". But in that case light is the same as nothing at all, because without variation in light intensity and frequency we could not see anything.

Pain is a necessary cost of choice, you can see that if you think about it. As soon as there is a fork in the road, there is of necessity opportunity cost. And if there are no forks in the road, then you just have a mobius strip. So infinity is not having no forks in the road, but infinite choices. And so, to be God is not to be above pain, but to be capable of infinite pain. And only Christianity understands this, only Christianity has the cross. The price of life is pain. One can either choose to avoid pain and die, or we can suck it up and choose life.
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Pennington
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5/8/2013 7:59:44 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/8/2013 7:46:38 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 5/8/2013 7:42:56 AM, Pennington wrote:
At 5/8/2013 7:29:39 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 5/8/2013 7:25:59 AM, Pennington wrote:
At 5/8/2013 7:07:59 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
There is no good response to the problem of evil. If God exists he cannot choose evil, but has free will. Thus, it is possible to have free will and not be able to commit evil.:

Yes there is but that does not mean the agent with free-will will not choose evil opposed to good.

A free-willed being can only choose evil, if it has the ability. If it does not have the ability, it cannot choose it. Since it is possible to not have the ability to commit evil and still have free-will, an ombibenevolent being would have given us that type of free will.

Hello, we did receive that and chose against it.

And omnibenevolent God when choosing between:

i) Free will that allows one to commit evil
ii) Free will that does not allow one to commit evil.

He would go with ii) due to his omnibenevolent nature. Since we have the free will that leads to evil, then we know we were not put here by an omnibenevolent being.

No, you consistently refuse the act of love.

What act of love? lol

My point. Do some reading on what love is and you would release this irrational train of thought. You think a dictator is better than free choice.

Maybe you do not know what real love is. Real love allows you to freely live the way you choose or it would not be freedom.

Then God does not have free-will, as he cannot commit evil!

I never said God has free-will. God cannot go against His nature but that does not mean creation cannot.

That is omnibenevolent. You suggest well since we cannot live without sin then it is God's fault because He did not make me like a robot without freedom. Childish point of view if you ask me. Passing the buck.

We are biological robots lol

No, your an enlightened sentient being and other animals are not. Think more of yourself.

"No, your an enlightened sentient being and other animals are not. Think more of yourself."

Enlightened? You mean I have a bigger and more complex brain; that is the only thing that makes us special. Besides that we are inferior to other animals. Chimps are four times stronger than us, crocodiles only need to eat once a month, dolphins never choke because they breath through a different hole they use to eat. One form of jelly fish can live forever. Bacteria are six times more evolved than us ect....

Yet humans rule. Weird. Humans do not have the biggest brains, it is the capability of that brain that makes us far superior to animals.
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