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Theological Debates

stubs
Posts: 1,887
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5/9/2013 8:32:25 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I want to make this thread to see if anyone wants to debate theological points within the Christian faith. I am open to debating all ideas now and I have the time to now that school is done. Two of the things I am looking to possibly debate are "The prophets were political conservatives" and "God can change his mind."

Any other ideas for theological debates?
annanicole
Posts: 19,782
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5/9/2013 10:35:20 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I think someone could easily prove that God changes His mind - or has changed it, at least temporarily, about certain things. As far as the political leanings of the prophets, I have no idea.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
stubs
Posts: 1,887
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5/10/2013 1:49:50 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/9/2013 10:35:20 PM, annanicole wrote:
I think someone could easily prove that God changes His mind - or has changed it, at least temporarily, about certain things. As far as the political leanings of the prophets, I have no idea.

That goes against what a lot of people think though. Such as William Lane Craig believes the only reason one would change their mind is due to either new information or a new line of reasoning. God, however, would never have a new line of reasoning or gain new information based upon the fact that he is all-knowing.
annanicole
Posts: 19,782
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5/10/2013 2:28:51 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
He has changed His mind at times based upon human behavior or response, has He not?
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
AbnerGrimm
Posts: 114
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5/10/2013 3:22:55 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/9/2013 8:32:25 PM, stubs wrote:
I want to make this thread to see if anyone wants to debate theological points within the Christian faith. I am open to debating all ideas now and I have the time to now that school is done. Two of the things I am looking to possibly debate are "The prophets were political conservatives" and "God can change his mind."

Any other ideas for theological debates?

What topics did you have in mind?
stubs
Posts: 1,887
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5/10/2013 5:49:08 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/10/2013 2:28:51 PM, annanicole wrote:
He has changed His mind at times based upon human behavior or response, has He not?

Haha that's a good question (;
stubs
Posts: 1,887
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5/10/2013 5:49:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/10/2013 3:22:55 PM, AbnerGrimm wrote:
At 5/9/2013 8:32:25 PM, stubs wrote:
I want to make this thread to see if anyone wants to debate theological points within the Christian faith. I am open to debating all ideas now and I have the time to now that school is done. Two of the things I am looking to possibly debate are "The prophets were political conservatives" and "God can change his mind."

Any other ideas for theological debates?

What topics did you have in mind?

Well the two I posted are of interest to me however I am open to all ideas. Do you have any others in mind?
annanicole
Posts: 19,782
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5/10/2013 6:21:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/10/2013 5:49:08 PM, stubs wrote:
At 5/10/2013 2:28:51 PM, annanicole wrote:
He has changed His mind at times based upon human behavior or response, has He not?

Haha that's a good question (;

My opinion is that God is all-powerful, whether He chooses to exercise that power or not at a given time. He is also all-knowing, whether He chooses to exercise that power or not at a given time. Actually, to me, an example of being all-powerful is the ability (and the exercise thereof) to elect not to know, to choose to leave certain things up in the air.

Does God know the day I will die? I think not. Could He know? Yep. So it is regarding a number of things. To me (not necessarily to anyone else), any other view starts to dig into free will and liberty of thought and action.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
stubs
Posts: 1,887
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5/10/2013 8:49:46 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/10/2013 6:21:01 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 5/10/2013 5:49:08 PM, stubs wrote:
At 5/10/2013 2:28:51 PM, annanicole wrote:
He has changed His mind at times based upon human behavior or response, has He not?

Haha that's a good question (;

My opinion is that God is all-powerful, whether He chooses to exercise that power or not at a given time. He is also all-knowing, whether He chooses to exercise that power or not at a given time. Actually, to me, an example of being all-powerful is the ability (and the exercise thereof) to elect not to know, to choose to leave certain things up in the air.

Does God know the day I will die? I think not. Could He know? Yep. So it is regarding a number of things. To me (not necessarily to anyone else), any other view starts to dig into free will and liberty of thought and action.

You don't think God knows the day you will die? I don't think it "digs into free will and liberty of thought and action." Especially if you hold to the middle, free, and natural knowledge theory.
annanicole
Posts: 19,782
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5/10/2013 9:42:02 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/10/2013 8:49:46 PM, stubs wrote:
At 5/10/2013 6:21:01 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 5/10/2013 5:49:08 PM, stubs wrote:
At 5/10/2013 2:28:51 PM, annanicole wrote:
He has changed His mind at times based upon human behavior or response, has He not?

Haha that's a good question (;

My opinion is that God is all-powerful, whether He chooses to exercise that power or not at a given time. He is also all-knowing, whether He chooses to exercise that power or not at a given time. Actually, to me, an example of being all-powerful is the ability (and the exercise thereof) to elect not to know, to choose to leave certain things up in the air.

Does God know the day I will die? I think not. Could He know? Yep. So it is regarding a number of things. To me (not necessarily to anyone else), any other view starts to dig into free will and liberty of thought and action.

You don't think God knows the day you will die? I don't think it "digs into free will and liberty of thought and action." Especially if you hold to the middle, free, and natural knowledge theory.

I think that God chooses not to know - and leaves it to natural factors, such as whether I choose to smoke four packs a day (that might affect when I die), genetics, drug use, exercise, etc. If God knows the day I shall die, like maybe May 3, 2045 - then I'm not too sure what difference it would make if I smoke, drink, eat right, exercise, or anything else.

I have talked to people (not often on the subject), who actually insisted that God just HAD to know ... everything ... He has no choice in the matter, and does not have the power to limit his foreknowledge. It always seemed to me that they argued in circles, kinda like Dogknox, i. e. Timothy was a bishop because he was a bishop.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
stubs
Posts: 1,887
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5/10/2013 9:49:15 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/10/2013 9:42:02 PM, annanicole wrote:
I think that God chooses not to know - and leaves it to natural factors, such as whether I choose to smoke four packs a day (that might affect when I die), genetics, drug use, exercise, etc. If God knows the day I shall die, like maybe May 3, 2045 - then I'm not too sure what difference it would make if I smoke, drink, eat right, exercise, or anything else.

That's because you are confusing chronologically prior with temporally prior.

I have talked to people (not often on the subject), who actually insisted that God just HAD to know ... everything ... He has no choice in the matter, and does not have the power to limit his foreknowledge. It always seemed to me that they argued in circles, kinda like Dogknox, i. e. Timothy was a bishop because he was a bishop.
annanicole
Posts: 19,782
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5/10/2013 10:33:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I don't know ... are these people saying God does not have the power to choose not to know the future in some areas?
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Composer
Posts: 5,858
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5/11/2013 12:28:55 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/10/2013 10:33:01 PM, annanicole wrote:
I don't know ... are these people saying God does not have the power to choose not to know the future in some areas?

ALL Supernatural god(s) are 100% human invented mythical beings!

Even the Story book bible one didn't know everything so it isn't even the god those that fabricated it try to tell us it is? LOL!

e.g. And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous; 21 I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know. (Gen. 18:20-21) KJV Story book

&

Using annanicole's apparent favourite Story book version -

And Jehovah said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous; 21 I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know. (Gen. 18:20 - 21) ASV Story book

It didn't know and had to get off its narcissistic butt and come down to find out (apparently? LOL!)

Your vindicated mentor moi!
stubs
Posts: 1,887
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5/11/2013 6:48:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/10/2013 10:33:01 PM, annanicole wrote:
I don't know ... are these people saying God does not have the power to choose not to know the future in some areas?

I mean I think that he does know all things in the future and I don't think it effects free will at all, but I suppose he could choose not to know some things.
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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5/15/2013 7:47:35 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/11/2013 6:48:41 PM, stubs wrote:
At 5/10/2013 10:33:01 PM, annanicole wrote:
I don't know ... are these people saying God does not have the power to choose not to know the future in some areas?

I mean I think that he does know all things in the future and I don't think it effects free will at all, but I suppose he could choose not to know some things.

Isn't this self contradictory ?If he chose to not know something, it means he already knows it in order to chose to not know it! so He chooses to ignore it ? not to not know it ,otherwise he wouldn't be all knowledgeable.
stubs
Posts: 1,887
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5/17/2013 9:59:26 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/15/2013 7:47:35 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 5/11/2013 6:48:41 PM, stubs wrote:
At 5/10/2013 10:33:01 PM, annanicole wrote:
I don't know ... are these people saying God does not have the power to choose not to know the future in some areas?

I mean I think that he does know all things in the future and I don't think it effects free will at all, but I suppose he could choose not to know some things.

Isn't this self contradictory ?If he chose to not know something, it means he already knows it in order to chose to not know it! so He chooses to ignore it ? not to not know it ,otherwise he wouldn't be all knowledgeable.

Very good point.
stubs
Posts: 1,887
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5/17/2013 9:59:50 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/17/2013 9:59:26 PM, stubs wrote:
At 5/15/2013 7:47:35 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 5/11/2013 6:48:41 PM, stubs wrote:
At 5/10/2013 10:33:01 PM, annanicole wrote:
I don't know ... are these people saying God does not have the power to choose not to know the future in some areas?

I mean I think that he does know all things in the future and I don't think it effects free will at all, but I suppose he could choose not to know some things.

Isn't this self contradictory ?If he chose to not know something, it means he already knows it in order to chose to not know it! so He chooses to ignore it ? not to not know it ,otherwise he wouldn't be all knowledgeable.

Very good point.

Which is one of the reasons I don't hold to that view haha
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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5/18/2013 10:33:53 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/17/2013 9:59:50 PM, stubs wrote:
At 5/17/2013 9:59:26 PM, stubs wrote:
At 5/15/2013 7:47:35 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 5/11/2013 6:48:41 PM, stubs wrote:
At 5/10/2013 10:33:01 PM, annanicole wrote:
I don't know ... are these people saying God does not have the power to choose not to know the future in some areas?

I mean I think that he does know all things in the future and I don't think it effects free will at all, but I suppose he could choose not to know some things.

Isn't this self contradictory ?If he chose to not know something, it means he already knows it in order to chose to not know it! so He chooses to ignore it ? not to not know it ,otherwise he wouldn't be all knowledgeable.

Very good point.

Which is one of the reasons I don't hold to that view haha

Ok , you reassure me :).