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Materialism Refuted

medic0506
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5/14/2013 12:21:46 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
For those who don't like videos...

In philosophy, the theory of materialism holds that the only thing that exists is matter or energy; that all things are composed of material and all phenomena (including consciousness) are the result of material interactions. In other words, matter is the only substance, and reality is identical with the actually occurring states of energy and matter.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

Materialism is the foundation for atheism, evolution, naturalism, etc. Those belief systems all rely on the ability of science to answer all questions, using natural processes, and universal laws. But materialism is simply refuted by asking one question, that science can't answer...Where did those processes and laws come from??
bladerunner060
Posts: 7,126
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5/14/2013 12:29:43 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/14/2013 12:21:46 PM, medic0506 wrote:


For those who don't like videos...

In philosophy, the theory of materialism holds that the only thing that exists is matter or energy; that all things are composed of material and all phenomena (including consciousness) are the result of material interactions. In other words, matter is the only substance, and reality is identical with the actually occurring states of energy and matter.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

Materialism is the foundation for atheism, evolution, naturalism, etc. Those belief systems all rely on the ability of science to answer all questions, using natural processes, and universal laws. But materialism is simply refuted by asking one question, that science can't answer...Where did those processes and laws come from??

That refutes nothing whatsoever, you realize that, right?
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AbnerGrimm
Posts: 114
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5/14/2013 1:12:12 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/14/2013 12:29:43 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 5/14/2013 12:21:46 PM, medic0506 wrote:


For those who don't like videos...

In philosophy, the theory of materialism holds that the only thing that exists is matter or energy; that all things are composed of material and all phenomena (including consciousness) are the result of material interactions. In other words, matter is the only substance, and reality is identical with the actually occurring states of energy and matter.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

Materialism is the foundation for atheism, evolution, naturalism, etc. Those belief systems all rely on the ability of science to answer all questions, using natural processes, and universal laws. But materialism is simply refuted by asking one question, that science can't answer...Where did those processes and laws come from??

That refutes nothing whatsoever, you realize that, right?

How would you know you haven't watched the video.
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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5/14/2013 1:15:18 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/14/2013 12:21:46 PM, medic0506 wrote:

Materialism is the foundation for atheism, evolution, naturalism, etc.

No it isn't.
bladerunner060
Posts: 7,126
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5/14/2013 1:23:44 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/14/2013 1:12:12 PM, AbnerGrimm wrote:
At 5/14/2013 12:29:43 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 5/14/2013 12:21:46 PM, medic0506 wrote:


For those who don't like videos...

In philosophy, the theory of materialism holds that the only thing that exists is matter or energy; that all things are composed of material and all phenomena (including consciousness) are the result of material interactions. In other words, matter is the only substance, and reality is identical with the actually occurring states of energy and matter.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

Materialism is the foundation for atheism, evolution, naturalism, etc. Those belief systems all rely on the ability of science to answer all questions, using natural processes, and universal laws. But materialism is simply refuted by asking one question, that science can't answer...Where did those processes and laws come from??

That refutes nothing whatsoever, you realize that, right?

How would you know you haven't watched the video.

1, how do you know I didn't? And 2, medic said "for those that don't like videos", and gave a summary. The summary given refutes absolutely nothing about materialism.
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AbnerGrimm
Posts: 114
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5/14/2013 1:29:33 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/14/2013 1:23:44 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 5/14/2013 1:12:12 PM, AbnerGrimm wrote:
At 5/14/2013 12:29:43 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 5/14/2013 12:21:46 PM, medic0506 wrote:


For those who don't like videos...

In philosophy, the theory of materialism holds that the only thing that exists is matter or energy; that all things are composed of material and all phenomena (including consciousness) are the result of material interactions. In other words, matter is the only substance, and reality is identical with the actually occurring states of energy and matter.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

Materialism is the foundation for atheism, evolution, naturalism, etc. Those belief systems all rely on the ability of science to answer all questions, using natural processes, and universal laws. But materialism is simply refuted by asking one question, that science can't answer...Where did those processes and laws come from??

That refutes nothing whatsoever, you realize that, right?

How would you know you haven't watched the video.

1, how do you know I didn't?:

Cause I did and you posted to soon to have watched it.
medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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5/14/2013 1:30:51 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
uh...yeah, I guess I did forget to add that part in.

Anyway, those natural laws and processes contain information, which requires a sender. Science can only operate inside those laws and processes, but can't speak to where they came from, which means there is more than just materialistic knowledge at play. The sender of that information had to know that we would be able to get the message and understand it. The only possible source for that kind of foreknowledge is God.
bladerunner060
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5/14/2013 1:35:20 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/14/2013 1:29:33 PM, AbnerGrimm wrote:
At 5/14/2013 1:23:44 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 5/14/2013 1:12:12 PM, AbnerGrimm wrote:
At 5/14/2013 12:29:43 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 5/14/2013 12:21:46 PM, medic0506 wrote:


For those who don't like videos...

In philosophy, the theory of materialism holds that the only thing that exists is matter or energy; that all things are composed of material and all phenomena (including consciousness) are the result of material interactions. In other words, matter is the only substance, and reality is identical with the actually occurring states of energy and matter.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

Materialism is the foundation for atheism, evolution, naturalism, etc. Those belief systems all rely on the ability of science to answer all questions, using natural processes, and universal laws. But materialism is simply refuted by asking one question, that science can't answer...Where did those processes and laws come from??

That refutes nothing whatsoever, you realize that, right?

How would you know you haven't watched the video.

1, how do you know I didn't?:

Cause I did and you posted to soon to have watched it.

I've seen it before. It refutes nothing and the speaker has no idea what evolution is.
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bladerunner060
Posts: 7,126
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5/14/2013 1:37:47 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/14/2013 1:30:51 PM, medic0506 wrote:
uh...yeah, I guess I did forget to add that part in.

Anyway, those natural laws and processes contain information, which requires a sender.

What?! No, it doesn't. Nor do the laws "contain information", they are descriptors of what happens.

Science can only operate inside those laws and processes, but can't speak to where they came from, which means there is more than just materialistic knowledge at play.

No it doesn't. That's an appeal to ignorance, even taken at face value, which I don't; I think science MIGHT be able to speak to where they came from, given enough time. But in the meantime, we can't say "therefore there is more".

The sender of that information had to know that we would be able to get the message and understand it. The only possible source for that kind of foreknowledge is God.

That's simplistic nonsense, and I know you know it!

The idea that the descriptions we use to describe what happens are information which requires as ender is a nonsequitor in the purest sense, in that you've given NO REASON to think that; it does not follow.
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bladerunner060
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5/14/2013 1:38:49 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
The video, for those that don't watch it, is nonsense of your standard variety, that assumes a naturalistic fallacy of direction with regards to evolution, then does a poor job of beating its straw man.
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StevenDixon
Posts: 178
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5/14/2013 1:40:50 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/14/2013 1:30:51 PM, medic0506 wrote:
uh...yeah, I guess I did forget to add that part in.

Anyway, those natural laws and processes contain information, which requires a sender. Science can only operate inside those laws and processes, but can't speak to where they came from, which means there is more than just materialistic knowledge at play. The sender of that information had to know that we would be able to get the message and understand it. The only possible source for that kind of foreknowledge is God.

Daaaaaaaaaayyyyummmmmm look at all of that question begging and equivocation.
medic0506
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5/14/2013 1:45:59 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/14/2013 1:15:18 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 5/14/2013 12:21:46 PM, medic0506 wrote:

Materialism is the foundation for atheism, evolution, naturalism, etc.

No it isn't.

You can fancy it up a little but it all boils down to being the same thing.
medic0506
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5/14/2013 1:47:56 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/14/2013 1:27:58 PM, drafterman wrote:
Also, unanswered questions don't refute anything.

If your methodology leaves you unable to address the questions that are unanswered, yes it does.
StevenDixon
Posts: 178
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5/14/2013 1:55:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/14/2013 1:45:59 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 5/14/2013 1:15:18 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 5/14/2013 12:21:46 PM, medic0506 wrote:

Materialism is the foundation for atheism, evolution, naturalism, etc.

No it isn't.

You can fancy it up a little but it all boils down to being the same thing.

No it doesn't.
Noumena
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5/14/2013 2:11:50 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/14/2013 1:30:51 PM, medic0506 wrote:
uh...yeah, I guess I did forget to add that part in.

Anyway, those natural laws and processes contain information, which requires a sender.

Why?

Science can only operate inside those laws and processes, but can't speak to where they came from, which means there is more than just materialistic knowledge at play.

Equivocating ontology with epistemology here. At the most this only shows that we can't ONLY rely on empirical methods of investigation, something that has no bearing on whether metaphysical materialism actually obtains.

The sender of that information had to know that we would be able to get the message and understand it. The only possible source for that kind of foreknowledge is God.

Seriously just gibberish. No idea what this is supposed to mean.
: At 5/13/2014 7:05:20 PM, Crescendo wrote:
: The difference is that the gay movement is currently pushing their will on Churches, as shown in the link to gay marriage in Denmark. Meanwhile, the Inquisition ended several centuries ago.
Noumena
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5/14/2013 2:13:19 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/14/2013 1:47:56 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 5/14/2013 1:27:58 PM, drafterman wrote:
Also, unanswered questions don't refute anything.

If your methodology leaves you unable to address the questions that are unanswered, yes it does.

Yer argument, at its best, could only refute empiricist methodology, not materialist metaphysics. Learn2 philosophy.
: At 5/13/2014 7:05:20 PM, Crescendo wrote:
: The difference is that the gay movement is currently pushing their will on Churches, as shown in the link to gay marriage in Denmark. Meanwhile, the Inquisition ended several centuries ago.
Noumena
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5/14/2013 2:19:40 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/14/2013 1:45:59 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 5/14/2013 1:15:18 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 5/14/2013 12:21:46 PM, medic0506 wrote:

Materialism is the foundation for atheism, evolution, naturalism, etc.

No it isn't.

You can fancy it up a little but it all boils down to being the same thing.

It's seriously not. Maybe for naturalism but to back it as the foundation of atheism or evolution is borderline retarded.

Atheism- can be materialist, idealist, substance monist, etc. Materialism is only one of several competing non-supernatural metaphysical theories.
Evolution- isn't predicated on any metaphysical theory. It's foundations lie in epistemic methodology, not metaphysics.
: At 5/13/2014 7:05:20 PM, Crescendo wrote:
: The difference is that the gay movement is currently pushing their will on Churches, as shown in the link to gay marriage in Denmark. Meanwhile, the Inquisition ended several centuries ago.
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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5/14/2013 2:29:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/14/2013 12:29:43 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 5/14/2013 12:21:46 PM, medic0506 wrote:


For those who don't like videos...

In philosophy, the theory of materialism holds that the only thing that exists is matter or energy; that all things are composed of material and all phenomena (including consciousness) are the result of material interactions. In other words, matter is the only substance, and reality is identical with the actually occurring states of energy and matter.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

Materialism is the foundation for atheism, evolution, naturalism, etc. Those belief systems all rely on the ability of science to answer all questions, using natural processes, and universal laws. But materialism is simply refuted by asking one question, that science can't answer...Where did those processes and laws come from??

That refutes nothing whatsoever, you realize that, right?

Exactly. If he really had info that debunked evolution he would have won a Nobel prize by now, not posting you-tube videos on DDO lol
Rational_Thinker9119
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5/14/2013 2:30:11 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Also strict materialism is a dead philosophy, as quantum mechanics debunks it. This says nothing about physicalism as a whole however.
Noumena
Posts: 6,047
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5/14/2013 2:34:28 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/14/2013 2:30:11 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
Also strict materialism is a dead philosophy, as quantum mechanics debunks it. This says nothing about physicalism as a whole however.

I love how Christians of Medic's type like to think that materialism is the universal basis of non-theistic philosophy/belief. If only they knew how predominantly atheist) philosophers nowadays laugh at it.
: At 5/13/2014 7:05:20 PM, Crescendo wrote:
: The difference is that the gay movement is currently pushing their will on Churches, as shown in the link to gay marriage in Denmark. Meanwhile, the Inquisition ended several centuries ago.
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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5/14/2013 2:36:36 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/14/2013 2:34:28 PM, Noumena wrote:
At 5/14/2013 2:30:11 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
Also strict materialism is a dead philosophy, as quantum mechanics debunks it. This says nothing about physicalism as a whole however.

I love how Christians of Medic's type like to think that materialism is the universal basis of non-theistic philosophy/belief. If only they knew how predominantly atheist) philosophers nowadays laugh at it.

Almost nobody is a strict matierialist anymore, so knocking down materialism does not say anything lol
Noumena
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5/14/2013 2:40:27 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/14/2013 2:36:36 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 5/14/2013 2:34:28 PM, Noumena wrote:
At 5/14/2013 2:30:11 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
Also strict materialism is a dead philosophy, as quantum mechanics debunks it. This says nothing about physicalism as a whole however.

I love how Christians of Medic's type like to think that materialism is the universal basis of non-theistic philosophy/belief. If only they knew how predominantly atheist) philosophers nowadays laugh at it.

Almost nobody is a strict matierialist anymore, so knocking down materialism does not say anything lol

More important than that though is that he seriously thinks materialism is the metaphysical foundation of atheism. Lol@ the thought of ideological universality among non-religious folks.
: At 5/13/2014 7:05:20 PM, Crescendo wrote:
: The difference is that the gay movement is currently pushing their will on Churches, as shown in the link to gay marriage in Denmark. Meanwhile, the Inquisition ended several centuries ago.
Dan4reason
Posts: 1,168
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5/14/2013 2:59:05 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/14/2013 12:21:46 PM, medic0506 wrote:


For those who don't like videos...

In philosophy, the theory of materialism holds that the only thing that exists is matter or energy; that all things are composed of material and all phenomena (including consciousness) are the result of material interactions. In other words, matter is the only substance, and reality is identical with the actually occurring states of energy and matter.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

Materialism is the foundation for atheism, evolution, naturalism, etc. Those belief systems all rely on the ability of science to answer all questions, using natural processes, and universal laws. But materialism is simply refuted by asking one question, that science can't answer...Where did those processes and laws come from??

Materialism is a flawed philosophy from an atheist viewpoint because it makes the assumption that all that exists is matter and energy. Today we know that both space and time also are things that exist, and there may even be up to 11 dimensions in the universe. Materialism is an outdated notion from the 1800's that should not be taken seriously anymore.
medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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5/14/2013 3:01:30 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/14/2013 2:34:28 PM, Noumena wrote:
At 5/14/2013 2:30:11 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
Also strict materialism is a dead philosophy, as quantum mechanics debunks it. This says nothing about physicalism as a whole however.

I love how Christians of Medic's type like to think that materialism is the universal basis of non-theistic philosophy/belief. If only they knew how predominantly atheist) philosophers nowadays laugh at it.

If you only knew how we laughed at all the pseudo-philosophers who try to pretend they're saying something different. Like I said you can try and fancy it up and put a different wrapper on it but it boils down to the same ole same ole.
Rational_Thinker9119
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5/14/2013 3:03:34 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/14/2013 2:59:05 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
At 5/14/2013 12:21:46 PM, medic0506 wrote:


For those who don't like videos...

In philosophy, the theory of materialism holds that the only thing that exists is matter or energy; that all things are composed of material and all phenomena (including consciousness) are the result of material interactions. In other words, matter is the only substance, and reality is identical with the actually occurring states of energy and matter.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

Materialism is the foundation for atheism, evolution, naturalism, etc. Those belief systems all rely on the ability of science to answer all questions, using natural processes, and universal laws. But materialism is simply refuted by asking one question, that science can't answer...Where did those processes and laws come from??

Materialism is a flawed philosophy from an atheist viewpoint because it makes the assumption that all that exists is matter and energy. Today we know that both space and time also are things that exist, and there may even be up to 11 dimensions in the universe. Materialism is an outdated notion from the 1800's that should not be taken seriously anymore.

Agreed. Gravity disproves materialism lol

"it is only possible to study immaterial forces like gravity by observing their effects on the physical world" - http://www.merriam-webster.com...
Dan4reason
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5/14/2013 3:06:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/14/2013 3:03:34 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 5/14/2013 2:59:05 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
At 5/14/2013 12:21:46 PM, medic0506 wrote:


For those who don't like videos...

In philosophy, the theory of materialism holds that the only thing that exists is matter or energy; that all things are composed of material and all phenomena (including consciousness) are the result of material interactions. In other words, matter is the only substance, and reality is identical with the actually occurring states of energy and matter.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

Materialism is the foundation for atheism, evolution, naturalism, etc. Those belief systems all rely on the ability of science to answer all questions, using natural processes, and universal laws. But materialism is simply refuted by asking one question, that science can't answer...Where did those processes and laws come from??

Materialism is a flawed philosophy from an atheist viewpoint because it makes the assumption that all that exists is matter and energy. Today we know that both space and time also are things that exist, and there may even be up to 11 dimensions in the universe. Materialism is an outdated notion from the 1800's that should not be taken seriously anymore.

Agreed. Gravity disproves materialism lol

"it is only possible to study immaterial forces like gravity by observing their effects on the physical world" - http://www.merriam-webster.com...

Personally I think that many theists try to pin atheism to extreme materialism as a good straw-man argument.

The approach that most atheists apply to phenomena is that if there is no evidence for it, then we won't believe in it. This is why we believe in gravity but not ghosts.
Noumena
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5/14/2013 3:12:43 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/14/2013 3:01:30 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 5/14/2013 2:34:28 PM, Noumena wrote:
At 5/14/2013 2:30:11 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
Also strict materialism is a dead philosophy, as quantum mechanics debunks it. This says nothing about physicalism as a whole however.

I love how Christians of Medic's type like to think that materialism is the universal basis of non-theistic philosophy/belief. If only they knew how predominantly atheist) philosophers nowadays laugh at it.

If you only knew how we laughed at all the pseudo-philosophers who try to pretend they're saying something different. Like I said you can try and fancy it up and put a different wrapper on it but it boils down to the same ole same ole.

Are you planning on making an actual argument?
: At 5/13/2014 7:05:20 PM, Crescendo wrote:
: The difference is that the gay movement is currently pushing their will on Churches, as shown in the link to gay marriage in Denmark. Meanwhile, the Inquisition ended several centuries ago.
Radar
Posts: 424
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5/14/2013 3:23:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Good video, even if the wrapping is unappealing. But the wrapping is what atheists will focus on.