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AbnerGrimm
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5/18/2013 10:34:17 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I just wanted to know how you justify your doctrine? Now, I have no doubt some Catholics are really Christian and are saved. This is not about all Catholics but specifically the Roman Catholic religion. Many Roman Catholics do not even know what the Bible or their church teaches. We can say this about the majority of Christians both here and in the world.

I do not believe the doctrine in which the Roman Catholic church stands for can be supported by the Word of God. Many interpretations from the RCC are fundamentally opposing the teachings of Jesus Christ. I would like to start this thread as a discussion between the Protestants and why they are Protestants and the RCC and why they claim Protestants are in protest. Why are Protestants in protest against the RCC?

I will contend that this describes the Roman Catholic Church.

Galatians 1:6-9
6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.


And Paul also says:

1 Corinthians 14:37
37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.


The Roman Catholic church suggests they can do this very thing. When we actually look at the Roman Catholic doctrine it is as mentioned here, the same but different, almost contrary. The RCC has its own set of interpretations that all Christians must follow. Isn't this not a different Bible from the Bible? Does the Roman Catholic doctrine suggest that Jesus Christ is not personnel? The Holy Ghost is not personnel? If they don't then how do you explain the requirement for Christians to live by one interpretation? If God and His Word are Personnel then should not every person have their own interpretation from God? This seems to contradict the personnel relationship with God.

What about confessing your sins to a man in the shadowy booth. If we are to confess our sins do it in public or in private in the closet alone with the Lord.

Matthew 6:6
But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.


We see we should pray to God in secret between Him and us. This increases a personnel relationship with God.

James 5:16, Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you ... one of you speak the truth with his neighbor, for we are members one of another.

We see that brothers and sisters we should confess our wrongs to one another. This does not mean to one person in a booth. This means publicly to show your faith of God. This strengthens community relationships.

Matthew 18:15, If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother.

We see that if we wrong a fellow Christian or neighbor we should handle it alone between each other. This shows personnel relationships are important.

I do not see how any of the RCC doctrine shows personnel relationship with God but instead a church and Pope. I do not see how its increases value for its members by not allowing their testimony and confession publicly. I do not see how the people make stronger personnel ties with the church makes their every decision. It is a dictatorship in Christianity and Jesus Christ is not a dictator.

We can also research and see that the Romans were given up to their vile ways. How can Gentiles then construct the Bible, rule over Christianity, and claim other followers of Christ are not Christian? But then they accept all other religions as one of the same. Just not Protestants. Funny isn't it. Funny how Jesus Christ is limited to Gentile church.

I think this is a good starting point. Enjoy.
annanicole
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5/18/2013 2:45:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I'm not particularly a "Protestant": I'm not in "protest" against the Catholic Church - I largely pay no attention to it.

I am in favor of tossing aside Catholicism and many aspects of Protestantism along with it. All the creeds other than the Bible can hit the dumpster.

As far as your post regarding Catholics and their Biblical knowledge ... of course it is unfair to generalize. So I'll be "unfair" and state that in my experience Roman Catholics have about the poorest grasp of Biblical teachings that I've ever seen. And the reason for this is simple: they are taught to view the CHURCH as the supreme authority, and the Bible as a little ancillary, supportive document. The church fathers and traditions are also seen as supportive teachings. But the real, bonafide, genuine, not-to-be-questioned authority in the Catholic Church is ... the Catholic Church! That's what gives them license to flip-flop all the time. Something is "right", not because the Bible teaches it, but because the Catholic Church teaches it.

I have found the system to be a system of mental enslavement in which one is taught to let others do his thinking for him. That's why people like Dogknox constantly and unashamedly make blunders that would make others blush.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Dogknox
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5/18/2013 4:06:04 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
AbnerGrimm you quote Galatians 1:6-9??

I point out for the first sixteen Hundred years there was JUST the Catholic Church! Sixteen Hundred years AFTER Jesus, men PROTESTED against the Catholic Church and the SCRIPTURES!

AbnerGrimm There is NO place in the scriptures that say.. "Scriptures ALONE are all man needs"! The teaching is a MAN MADE TRADITION!!
Until the great protest and the de-forming the TEACHING of "Scriptures ALONE are our rule of faith" was UNHEARD OF!

AbnerGrimm PROVING you wrong..Right off!!! The Catholic Church believes the scriptures!
You reject them!!
SCriptures are CLEAR.. "The CHURCH is the Pillar and the foundation of TRUTH"! When this was writen there was ONLY the Catholic Church.. The Church that is the Pillar and the foundation of TRUTH.. CAN ONLY BE The Holy Catholic Church!

AbnerGrimm If you believed the scriptures you would be CATHOLIC!

Jesus said.. "I am with you ALWAYS to the very end of the world"!

AbnerGrimm The ONLY Church around was the Catholic Church.. Thus Jesus is ALWAYS with the Catholic Church! He started with the Catholic Church not with any man made PROTESTING Church!
AbnerGrimm You MUST reject the words of God as LIES!
You must reject "Jesus is always with his BRIDE" you must believe Jesus left his Body for your man made body otherwise you would be Catholic! YOU REJECT THE WORDS OF JESUS!

AbnerGrimm Run from the lies of Protestantism.. deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel

Run from protestantism save your soul!

Dogknox
AbnerGrimm
Posts: 114
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5/18/2013 4:31:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/18/2013 4:06:04 PM, Dogknox wrote:
AbnerGrimm you quote Galatians 1:6-9??

I point out for the first sixteen Hundred years there was JUST the Catholic Church! Sixteen Hundred years AFTER Jesus, men PROTESTED against the Catholic Church and the SCRIPTURES!

AbnerGrimm There is NO place in the scriptures that say.. "Scriptures ALONE are all man needs"! The teaching is a MAN MADE TRADITION!!
Until the great protest and the de-forming the TEACHING of "Scriptures ALONE are our rule of faith" was UNHEARD OF!

AbnerGrimm PROVING you wrong..Right off!!! The Catholic Church believes the scriptures!
You reject them!!
SCriptures are CLEAR.. "The CHURCH is the Pillar and the foundation of TRUTH"! When this was writen there was ONLY the Catholic Church.. The Church that is the Pillar and the foundation of TRUTH.. CAN ONLY BE The Holy Catholic Church!

AbnerGrimm If you believed the scriptures you would be CATHOLIC!

Jesus said.. "I am with you ALWAYS to the very end of the world"!

AbnerGrimm The ONLY Church around was the Catholic Church.. Thus Jesus is ALWAYS with the Catholic Church! He started with the Catholic Church not with any man made PROTESTING Church!
AbnerGrimm You MUST reject the words of God as LIES!
You must reject "Jesus is always with his BRIDE" you must believe Jesus left his Body for your man made body otherwise you would be Catholic! YOU REJECT THE WORDS OF JESUS!

AbnerGrimm Run from the lies of Protestantism.. deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel

Run from protestantism save your soul!

Dogknox

Offer some dialogue. Not blatant opinion without proof.
annanicole
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5/18/2013 5:13:20 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Dogknox: "Jesus said.. "I am with you ALWAYS to the very end of the world" AbnerGrimm The ONLY Church around was the Catholic Church.. Thus Jesus is ALWAYS with the Catholic Church!>

Anna: See, Abner? Case in point. When Jesus said, "Lo! I am with you always, even until the consummation of the age" ... there was no church in the Christian sense at all. Jesus had not established His church yet.

Yet Dogknox thinks the Savior was somehow talking to the Catholic Church! That's Catholicism for you. All of us are inclined to maybe twist a questionable passage a little. But a total perversion?
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Dogknox
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5/18/2013 9:00:18 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/18/2013 4:31:54 PM, AbnerGrimm wrote:
At 5/18/2013 4:06:04 PM, Dogknox wrote:
AbnerGrimm you quote Galatians 1:6-9??

I point out for the first sixteen Hundred years there was JUST the Catholic Church! Sixteen Hundred years AFTER Jesus, men PROTESTED against the Catholic Church and the SCRIPTURES!

AbnerGrimm There is NO place in the scriptures that say.. "Scriptures ALONE are all man needs"! The teaching is a MAN MADE TRADITION!!
Until the great protest and the de-forming the TEACHING of "Scriptures ALONE are our rule of faith" was UNHEARD OF!

AbnerGrimm PROVING you wrong..Right off!!! The Catholic Church believes the scriptures!
You reject them!!
SCriptures are CLEAR.. "The CHURCH is the Pillar and the foundation of TRUTH"! When this was writen there was ONLY the Catholic Church.. The Church that is the Pillar and the foundation of TRUTH.. CAN ONLY BE The Holy Catholic Church!

AbnerGrimm If you believed the scriptures you would be CATHOLIC!

Jesus said.. "I am with you ALWAYS to the very end of the world"!

AbnerGrimm The ONLY Church around was the Catholic Church.. Thus Jesus is ALWAYS with the Catholic Church! He started with the Catholic Church not with any man made PROTESTING Church!
AbnerGrimm You MUST reject the words of God as LIES!
You must reject "Jesus is always with his BRIDE" you must believe Jesus left his Body for your man made body otherwise you would be Catholic! YOU REJECT THE WORDS OF JESUS!

AbnerGrimm Run from the lies of Protestantism.. deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel

Run from protestantism save your soul!

Dogknox

Offer some dialogue.. Not blatant opinion without proof.

AbnerGrimm I post the scriptures... You must reject the scriptures to reject the Catholic Church.. It is just this simple!

Your opening post has lots of accusations... When confronted with Logic and the Scriptures you want dialogue!???

The facts remain.. Scriptures tell you.. "Jesus is ALWAYS with his CHURCH!"
Fact.. Jesus did not start your church some man did.. Thus Jesus cannot ALWAYS have been with your church!!
AbnerGrimm You MUST reject the Prophesy.. to be Protestant!

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.

DO YOU SEE IT?? I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.

FACT: Until Martin Luther and his TEACHING "Scripture ALONE are all man needs" The Catholic CHURCH brought Jesus and salvation to the world! For sixteen hundred years there were few bibles!!
There was NO scriptures, (very few) they were costly works of art, only the very very rich could own bibles! MOST..
AbnerGrimm most people could not read... !!!
Salvation was brought to them by the Catholic Church her TEACHING Jesus saved them!! This fact alone Proves the lie of Martin Luther' teaching!! This FACT alone proves the lie of Protestantism and your CHURCH!
AbnerGrimm
Posts: 114
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5/18/2013 9:32:51 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/18/2013 9:00:18 PM, Dogknox wrote:
AbnerGrimm I post the scriptures...:

When? Where? You did not last post.

You must reject the scriptures to reject the Catholic Church.. It is just this simple!:

Show me where the scriptures says if I reject the Catholic church, I reject the scriptures? Heck, show me where it says I reject the scriptures if I reject a church?

Your opening post has lots of accusations... When confronted with Logic and the Scriptures you want dialogue!???

You have not posted to this point. I want scriptures and why it means what you say.

The facts remain.. Scriptures tell you.. "Jesus is ALWAYS with his CHURCH!"

Where does the scriptures say that the RCC is that church?

Fact.. Jesus did not start your church some man did.. Thus Jesus cannot ALWAYS have been with your church!!

In fact, a man started your church or do you not know your history?

AbnerGrimm You MUST reject the Prophesy.. to be Protestant!

Nope, I have not seen Protestant in my Bible. I heard of the church which soon leaves the ways of the scriptures as I posted in my OP. As you said the Protestants waited a long time to leave the RCC, Why? Because it took them that long to do it what out recourse. You know your church kills people who opposes it, or they did. Nope the RCC is the only church who feel back to Pagan worship soon after its foundation in the scripture. This fact is well documented. Your church displays this for over 1500 years.

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.

DO YOU SEE IT?? I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.

I did see it. I saw you diminish the church of God to a human invention, namely the RCC.

FACT: Until Martin Luther and his TEACHING "Scripture ALONE are all man needs" The Catholic CHURCH brought Jesus and salvation to the world! For sixteen hundred years there were few bibles!!

So they stopped after Martin Luther? Until Martin Luther your church killed those who went different then her.

There was NO scriptures, (very few) they were costly works of art, only the very very rich could own bibles! MOST..

RCC Bibles? What about text passed by common men? Were they less the Word of God? How in your right mind think that God who gave up the Gentiles(Roman included) to vile affections, ordain them to pass that word. You mise well say they passed vile scriptures, which is true.

AbnerGrimm most people could not read... !!!

Evidence they could not read?

Salvation was brought to them by the Catholic Church her TEACHING Jesus saved them!!

I have no doubt some men of the RCC are God working men. The aim of the RCC is not for God or salvation of men.

" This fact alone Proves the lie of Martin Luther' teaching!! This FACT alone proves the lie of Protestantism and your CHURCH!

How? Why? Where? You have shown diddly swat. The only thing I got something from was the brief, no verse, no book, half versed, scriptures you posted.

Just show us why the RCC is the church of Christ. Let's start this convo there. You show the RCC is the church of Christ. Now, evidence, Full booked versed scriptures and the reasoning for that interpretation. I will offer the same in my rebuttal. Until you show how and why my OP is incorrect by scriptures and interpretation of them scriptures. I can and will ignore you. You are not offering any debate. You offer plain and simple your way or they highway which will not work on this site, ever. You do not offer evidence or why the verses you post help you and where they help you. You post structured mess.
Composer
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5/18/2013 11:15:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit , . . . . (Matt. 7:18) KJV Story book

A sound tree cannot bear evil fruit, . . . . . . . . . (Matt. 7:18) catholic Story book RSV 1966 edition

A good tree cannot produce bad fruit . . . . . . . (Matt. 7:18) Digital catholic bible 1.3 Story book

Hence their own catholic propaganda is fatal to catholicism and its proven paedophila & Or Nun raping priestly activities fatal to its legitimacy and whatever church/Cult it claims to be, it is an unacceptable, corrupt and illegitimate, according to their very own propaganda!
annanicole
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5/19/2013 6:15:04 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Abner: "Just show us why the RCC is the church of Christ."

Anna: He can't. The Roman Catholic church started as a sect - the See of Rome - and over time fully apostasized from the church of Christ. There is now hardly a vestige of New Testament Christianity left in it. That's why Dogknox will never tell us whether or not he is a priest! The boy just can't say. Why? Seems easy. Answer: because he knows that in the first century, all Christians were priests: there was no clergy and laity. He's too scared to fight, and too old to run - so just never answers.

All about which I am concerned is New Testament church identity. I could care less about these long, contorted, fabricated succession theories. And, as far as identity, the Catholic Church is a Roman sect which apostasized in worship, in name, in organization, in doctrine, and everything else.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Dogknox
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5/19/2013 2:39:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
AbnerGrimm I post the scriptures...:

You said.. When? Where? You did not last post.

I pointed out.. You must reject the scriptures to reject the Catholic Church.. It is just this simple!:

Here is the scriptures >>AGAIN<<
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.

DO YOU SEE IT this time?? I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.

ALWAYS WITH.. Means Jesus stays with, the ONLY CHURCH Jesus formed.. The Holy Catholic CHURCH!
You must reject the Great Commission to say different!

More Great Commission..
18 Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them...

Do you see it??? Baptism MAKES DISCIPLES!!
AbnerGrimm Thus Baptism saves.. Disciples are Jesus' brother, they are God' children they are SAVED!
Baptism SAVES!

You ask... Show me where the scriptures says if I reject the Catholic church, I reject the scriptures? Heck, show me where it says I reject the scriptures if I reject a church?

I will show you scriptures warning ... Reject the words of Jesus and you then CONDEMN yourself!!

SCRIPTURES>>> John 12:48
There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day.

AbnerGrimm Do you see it??? (above)
The one who does NOT accept the scriptures REJECTS JESUS!!
Do NOT accept the scriptures and then CONDEMN yourself!

Scriptures... (above) I am with you always, even unto the end of the world!!!
YOU REJECT Jesus.. His words you reject...I am with you always,!!!
AbnerGrimm Jesus started with the Holy Catholic Church thus he remains with the Holy Catholic Church! I am with you always!!!

HISTORY ALONE tells you the ONLY CHURCH Jesus formed is the Holy Catholic Church!

Ignatius of Antioch Is a BISHOP in the Catholic Church!!
He said..
"Let no one do anything of concern to the Church without the bishop. Let that be considered a valid Eucharist which is celebrated by the bishop or by one whom he ordains [i.e., a presbyter]. Wherever the bishop appears, let the people be there; just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church" (Letter to the Smyrneans"8:2 [A.D. 110])."

DID YOU SEE IT??? "Just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church!!"

DID YOU NOTE THE EARLY DATE!? A.D. 110

I post scriptures and the words of the Early Church CHRISTIANS!!

AbnerGrimm your words.. Nope, I have not seen Protestant in my Bible. I heard of the church which soon leaves the ways of the scriptures as I posted in my OP. As you said the Protestants waited a long time to leave the RCC, Why? Because it took them that long to do it what out recourse. You know your church kills people who opposes it, or they did. Nope the RCC is the only church who feel back to Pagan worship soon after its foundation in the scripture. This fact is well documented. Your church displays this for over 1500 years.

Your words are a TRADITION NOT found in the scriptures.. I heard of the church which soon leaves the ways of the scriptures as I posted in my OP.

There is NO scriptures that say "the Church will leave the ways of scriptures" This is TEACHING of men who reject the scriptures!!

Scriptures say: 1 Timothy 3:15
if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God"s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.

DO YOU SEE IT ?? the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth!!!
When this was written there was JUST the Holy Catholic Church. There was NO protestants no man made churches! All the early father's are CATHOLIC!
All martyr Nero put to death are CATHOLIC!

The Great Commission
Matthew 28:19
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations..

DO YOU SEE IT?? "All Nations"!!
The Church has the authority of God to TEACH all nations!!
So much for the man made tradition of "Saved by the scriptures alone" CHURCH TEACHES!!

The Catholic Church has been TEACHING ALL Nations for the past two thousand years!! TEACHING, training, correcting and rebuking!!

2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness

DO YOU SEE IT?? "Useful" not ALONE used!!!

AbnerGrimm The ONLY Church Jesus formed is the Holy Catholic Church NO OTHERS!! All other churches yours included was made by a MAN or Satan!!
annanicole
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5/19/2013 3:22:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I repeat the post:

Abner: "Just show us why the RCC is the church of Christ."

Anna: He can't. The Roman Catholic church started as a sect - the See of Rome - and over time fully apostasized from the church of Christ. There is now hardly a vestige of New Testament Christianity left in it. That's why Dogknox will never tell us whether or not he is a priest! The boy just can't say. Why? Seems easy. Answer: because he knows that in the first century, all Christians were priests: there was no clergy and laity. He's too scared to fight, and too old to run - so just never answers.

All about which I am concerned is New Testament church identity. I could care less about these long, contorted, fabricated succession theories. And, as far as identity, the Catholic Church is a Roman sect which apostasized in worship, in name, in organization, in doctrine, and everything else.

.... and I'll add:

Matt 28: 19-20 has been explained to you a dozen times, Dogknox. The passage wasn't even spoken to the church; thus, you take a massive leap and apply it to the church. That's a pretty precarious step, Dogknox.

And "until the end, close, consummation of the age, world" does not mean that Jesus Christ is personally guiding any group of people until time ends. The passage doesn't teach that.

Micah 7 is largely a Messianic prophesy. Observe the statements:

v. 7: "Therefore I will look unto the LORD; I will wait for the God of my salvation"
v. 8: "the LORD shall be a light unto me."

Continuing to v 15-16:

"According to the days of thy coming out of the land of Egypt will I shew unto him marvellous things. The nations shall see and be confounded at all their might: they shall lay their hand upon their mouth, their ears shall be deaf."

How long were these "marvelous things" connected with Jesus Christ to last? 40 years! Jesus was about 30 years old when He wrought his first miracle. He was crucified at 33. BUT, He remained with His followers until the consummation of the age - until Judaism was finally and completely overthrown in AD 70. "Lo, I shall be with you always, even until the close of the age."

That makes a lot more sense - and can be corroborated with other passages - than for someone to blurt out that Jesus Christ is personally guiding some group of professed followers all along down through the ages. He guides through His word and in no other way today. At one time, He guided directly ... for three years personally and another thirty-seven through the Spirit.

Poor Dogknox tries to pawn off a passage that wasn't even spoken to the church - then he applies to the church - then he claims that "the church" is the Roman Catholic sect - THEN he perverts the passage to mean "til the end of all time, when the Lord returns."

Know what? That's been explained in 10x more detail that that to Dogknox. What does he reply? Not one word. Never. He will, however, wait about a week and make the same old mistakes again.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Dogknox
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5/19/2013 7:04:07 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
annanicole You said.. Anna: He can't. The Roman Catholic church started as a sect - the See of Rome - and over time fully apostatized from the church of Christ. There is now hardly a vestige of New Testament Christianity left in it. That's why Dogknox will never tell us whether or not he is a priest! The boy just can't say. Why? Seems easy. Answer: because he knows that in the first century, all Christians were priests: there was no clergy and laity. He's too scared to fight, and too old to run - so just never answers.
I reply... Scriptures you MUST reject to say what you said..
Gods words.. Word for word.. Scriptures..20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.

DO YOU SEE IT ?? God' words.. I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.

Your words.. The Roman Catholic church started as a sect - the See of Rome - and over time fully apostatized

There was NO other church except the Church Jesus formed, "The Holy Catholic Church" given it's name by CHRISTIANS!

God' words.. 47 For this is what the Lord has commanded us:
""I have made you a light for the Gentiles,
that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth.""


DO YOU SEE IT?? you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth."

Your words.. The Roman Catholic church started as a sect - the See of Rome - and over time fully apostatized

To the ends of the EARTH the Church brings salvation!.
Jesus is ALWAYS with his CHURCH!

ALL the early Church CHRISTIANS, are Catholic'!
ALL the early Christian MARYTERS, are Catholic'!
annanicole Not one Martyr was from your man made church named by your UNINSPIRED TEACHERS "churches of Christ"! Your church did not exist for Eighteen Hundred Years!

Your Church is TRYING to restore the Church Jesus is ALWAYS WITH!
Your Church is trying to RESTORE the same Church that has been bringing salvation to all the earth for two thousand years!!!

You can't name any other church.. Your church can't be the Church Jesus is ALWAYS WITH because your church admits right out; It is RESTORING Jesus' body back to him, fully addmiting Jesus could not ALWAYS have been with them! Whack ohhh
annanicole
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5/19/2013 7:45:17 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I repeat the post. Dogknox never answered - and he won't.

I repeat the post:

Abner: "Just show us why the RCC is the church of Christ."

Anna: He can't. The Roman Catholic church started as a sect - the See of Rome - and over time fully apostasized from the church of Christ. There is now hardly a vestige of New Testament Christianity left in it. That's why Dogknox will never tell us whether or not he is a priest! The boy just can't say. Why? Seems easy. Answer: because he knows that in the first century, all Christians were priests: there was no clergy and laity. He's too scared to fight, and too old to run - so just never answers.

All about which I am concerned is New Testament church identity. I could care less about these long, contorted, fabricated succession theories. And, as far as identity, the Catholic Church is a Roman sect which apostasized in worship, in name, in organization, in doctrine, and everything else.

.... and I'll add:

Matt 28: 19-20 has been explained to you a dozen times, Dogknox. The passage wasn't even spoken to the church; thus, you take a massive leap and apply it to the church. That's a pretty precarious step, Dogknox.

And "until the end, close, consummation of the age, world" does not mean that Jesus Christ is personally guiding any group of people until time ends. The passage doesn't teach that.

Micah 7 is largely a Messianic prophesy. Observe the statements:

v. 7: "Therefore I will look unto the LORD; I will wait for the God of my salvation"
v. 8: "the LORD shall be a light unto me."

Continuing to v 15-16:

"According to the days of thy coming out of the land of Egypt will I shew unto him marvellous things. The nations shall see and be confounded at all their might: they shall lay their hand upon their mouth, their ears shall be deaf."

How long were these "marvelous things" connected with Jesus Christ to last? 40 years! Jesus was about 30 years old when He wrought his first miracle. He was crucified at 33. BUT, He remained with His followers until the consummation of the age - until Judaism was finally and completely overthrown in AD 70. "Lo, I shall be with you always, even until the close of the age."

That makes a lot more sense - and can be corroborated with other passages - than for someone to blurt out that Jesus Christ is personally guiding some group of professed followers all along down through the ages. He guides through His word and in no other way today. At one time, He guided directly ... for three years personally and another thirty-seven through the Spirit.

Poor Dogknox tries to pawn off a passage that wasn't even spoken to the church - then he applies to the church - then he claims that "the church" is the Roman Catholic sect - THEN he perverts the passage to mean "til the end of all time, when the Lord returns."

Know what? That's been explained in 10x more detail that that to Dogknox. What does he reply? Not one word. Never. He will, however, wait about a week and make the same old mistakes again.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Dogknox
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5/19/2013 9:42:58 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
annanicole ALL the early Church CHRISTIANS, are Catholic'!
ALL the early Christian MARYTERS, are Catholic'!

Your Church was started by men TEACHING against the scriptures, Jesus' church needs to be restored! Your Church clearly believes Jesus left his body! Your Church REJECTS the scriptures!

annanicole Jesus is ALWAYS with his BODY!!
Always with his BODY thus he would NOT let his body be taken from him!
Matthew 28:20
WYC
teaching them to keep all things, whatever things I have commanded to you; and lo! I am with you in all days, into the end of the world.

I am with you "ALL DAYS"
I am with you "TO THE END of the world"
annanicole Jesus will not leave, he started with his Catholic Church TEACHING all nations and he remains with his Holy Catholic Church; "Bringing salvation to all the earth!"!

Matthew 28:20
WE
Teach them to do all the things I have told you to do. I am with you always, even to the end of time.'

annanicole To the END OF TIME.. Jesus remains with his Church!

annanicole Jesus' CHURCH TEACHES "ALL NATIONS"... Your church can't teach, you church has no authority to teach.. Your church gave up all authority to teach when it accepted the TRADITION of "Scriptures ALONE" are the authority!

Matthew 28:20
NLV
Teach them to do all the things I have told you. And I am with you always, even to the end of the world."

annanicole Until the world ENDS; Jesus remains with his TEACHERS until the end of the world!!!!
Your church teaches Jesus needs to be restored to his BODY!!
Your church rejects the scriptures!

Matthew 28:20
NIRV
Teach them to obey everything I have commanded you. And you can be sure that I am always with you, to the very end."

annanicole To the very end.. Jesus remains WITH who he started with!!
Your Church did not start with Jesus.. Your Church is a man made church teaching Jesus lied, teaching Jesus was overthrown and Jesus lost his body!

Matthew 28:20
NOG
Teach them to do everything I have commanded you.
"And remember that I am always with you until the end of time."


UNTIL THE END OF TIME!!!
annanicole Clearly the end of the AGE.. means forever!! Clearly "the end of the age" means to the end of the world!!

Matthew 28:20
LEB
teaching them to observe everything I have commanded you, and behold, I am with you all the days until the end of the age."

The TEACHING of the Church to all nations, goes right along with the second part; Jesus is always with the TEACHERS!!!
ALL Days Jesus is with the TEACHERS!!
Jesus is with Church TEACHING ALL NATIONS to the end of time!
Jesus is with Church TEACHING to the end of the world!
Jesus is with Church TEACHING all nations all days!

Matthew 28:20
KNOX
teaching them to observe all the commandments which I have given you. And behold I am with you all through the days that are coming, until the consummation of the world.

Jesus is ALWAYS WITH his TEACHERS!!!
To the consummation of the world.
............................................
DICTIONARY DOT COM
con"sum"ma"tion [kon-suh-mey-shuhn] Show IPA
noun
1. the act of consummating; completion.
2. the state of being consummated; perfection; fulfillment.
............................................
annanicole Do you see it?? To the consummation of the world.. To the Completion of the world!!!
Not 70 A.D.!

Your words are wrong.. You have made this up!
annanicole You have to REJECT God to say what you say ..
Your words.. BUT, He remained with His followers until the consummation of the age - until Judaism was finally and completely overthrown in AD 70. "Lo, I shall be with you always, even until the close of the age."

Scriptures prove you WRONG.. NOT the close of the age.. but the end of the WORLD, the end of TIME!
Jesus is ALWAYS WITH his TEACHERS to the end of the world!

Matthew 28:20
PHILLIPS
18-20 But Jesus came and spoke these words to them, "All power in Heaven and on earth has been given to me. You, then, are to go and make disciples of all the nations and baptise them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Teach them to observe all that I have commanded you and, remember, I am with you always, even to the end of the world."

Do you see it >> TO THE END OF THE WORLD.. Jesus remains with his Church!
Jesus' church does not need to be restored!

Matthew 28:20
GW
Teach them to do everything I have commanded you.
"And remember that I am always with you until the end of time."


TO THE END OF TIME!!
Clearly the interpreters who used the words "end of the age" can only mean: the end of time, end of the world, consummation of the world, with you all the days, to the very end, into the end of the world!!
Sower4GS
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5/19/2013 10:03:28 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
True Trivia lesson:

Did you know the RCC and the Sanhedrin basically merged around 535 A.D.? That oughta wring out your noodle for a while. True story. Look at the similarities it is as plain as the nose on your noggin.
Dogknox
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5/19/2013 10:11:18 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/19/2013 10:03:28 PM, Sower4GS wrote:
True Trivia lesson:

Did you know the RCC and the Sanhedrin basically merged around 535 A.D.? That oughta wring out your noodle for a while. True story. Look at the similarities it is as plain as the nose on your noggin.

Proof please....
Until then you speak through your hat!
annanicole
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5/19/2013 11:13:33 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Dogknox, "proof" by your assertions amounts to no proof at all! The passage says "until the end or consummation or completion of the age."

* Did the boy explain a thing pertaining to Micah 7? Of course not. He has no explanation.

* Did the boy every bother to tell us whether he is a priest or not? Certainly not. Can't afford to.

You see, poor Dogknox is simply left with his bald-faced assertion that the church of Christ, the church that Jesus built, is ... (get this) ... the sect based upon the See of Rome, now known as the Roman Catholic Church. He must simply assert this - and hope someone falls for it.

No, Dogknox, the church that Jesus built had no connection with Rome other than local congregations existing there. No, Dogknox, you didn't adequately explain Micah 7, as everyone can see. In fact, you didn't explain it at all (as is typical of Catholics).

Poor old Dogknox just doesn't get it. He "proves" that Matt 28: 19-20 cannot be interpreted as I said it could ... why? Exactly ... why? Well, because Dogknox said it couldn't! If that is all the proof he has (and it is), I'll just say that my interpretation has as much merit as his, and the passage doesn't necessarily mean what he says it means.

Bible: I am with you always, even until the consummation of the age.

Dogknox: I am with you personally always, even until the world ends upon Jesus' return.

You see, Dogknox has no concern over church identity. None whatsoever. His entire argument is based upon some supposed (and fabricated) church perpetuity. Suppose the church - the majority of it - fell away. Dogknox says it CAN'T! No matter what nonsense the Catholic church comes up with, Dogknox will say they are infallibly right! What a system!

In addition, please note that Dogknox is in a quandry over whether or not he is a priest. As I said, he's too old to run ... to scared to fight ... so he ignores it. LMAO.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
annanicole
Posts: 19,787
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5/19/2013 11:14:35 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
C'mon, Dogknox. You've evaded the question a dozen times: Are you a priest? Are you a lively stone? Do you make spiritual sacrifices unto God?
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
annanicole
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5/20/2013 2:56:34 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Oh, I forgot:

Dogknox: "Do you see it >> TO THE END OF THE WORLD.. Jesus remains with his Church!"

Anna: Do YOU see it? That promise, whatever it may mean, was not even made to the church.

Wanna watch Dogknox evade? Here .... watch him in action as he does everything except answer.

TRUE or FALSE, Dogknox ... TRUE or FALSE?

"The phrase ' ... even unto the consummation of the age' must mean 'until the end of the world when Jesus returns.' No other meaning is possible."

Is that statement true or false, Dogknox? It's gotta be one or the other - and your entire religious system depends on it.

Poor old thing! If he says "TRUE", I'll hit him with Greek lexicons and grammars - and other passages that use the same wording. If he says, "FALSE" - we'll all wonder why he bases everything on a passage with multiple possible meanings.

Have at it, Dogknox. Add that one to the priest question that you did so well with.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
AbnerGrimm
Posts: 114
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5/20/2013 10:54:48 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
What does this mean? Now if the Church really is infallible like they say then why does a Pope have a inverted cross on his chair? Really, it is like people are entranced, it is a known satanic symbol. It is in blasphemy against the cross of Christ.
http://www.bing.com...
http://www.bing.com...
Dogknox
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5/20/2013 12:08:32 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Do you see it >> "TO THE END OF THE WORLD.. Jesus remains with his Church!"

Do YOU see it? That promise was made to the church.

Jesus remains with the TEACHERS to the end of the world!
The TEACHERS are all who reject the idea of "Scriptures ALONE"!
annanicole Anyone who accepts scriptures ALONE can't teach!

All who think scriptures are the ONLY way that brings salvation, can only toss a bible at a person and say; "Save yourself!" If they try to TEACH then "Scriptures are NOT alone"!

annanicole Jesus remains FOREVER with his TEACHERS, Jesus' TEACHERS, teach all nations!
annanicole The TEACHERS bring salvation to to all the earth!

Acts 13:47
Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
for so hath the Lord commanded us: I have set thee for a light of nations -- for thy being for salvation unto the end of the earth.'

The "US" is the CHURCH!!!!
The CHURCH brings salvation!!

Acts 13:47
Worldwide English (New Testament) (WE)
That is what the Lord told us to do. He said, "I have made you to be a light to the people who are not Jews. You will tell people everywhere in the world how to be saved." '

annanicole CHURCH TEACHES ALL NATIONS.. everywhere in the world how to be saved

Acts 13:47
New Life Version (NLV)
The Lord gave us a work to do. He said, "You are to be a light to the people who are not Jews. You are to preach so that men over all the earth can be saved from the punishment of their sins.""

CHURCH preaches so that men over all the earth can be saved!!!

Acts 13:47
GOD"S WORD Translation (GW)
The Lord gave us the following order:
"I have made you a light for the nations
so that you would save people all over the world.""


CHURCH brings salvation ALL OVER the world!!
Jesus remains with his CHURCH as she brings the SALVATION to all the world!

Acts 13:47
1599 Geneva Bible (GNV)
For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have made thee a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be the salvation unto the end of the world.

Until the END Jesus remains with his TEACHERS!!!!

Acts 13:47
Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
This is what the Lord told us to do:
"I have made you a light for the other nations,
to show people all over the world the way to be saved.""


annanicole The way to be saved is SHOWEN to people all over the world!! (above)
Hands on TEACHING of the whole world saves! Jesus remains FOREVER with his TEACHERS!!

Acts 13:47
Contemporary English Version (CEV)
The Lord has given us this command,
"I have placed you here
as a light
for the Gentiles.
You are to take
the saving power of God

to people everywhere on earth."


The Catholic CHURCH is the TEACHERS of all nations; "Take the saving power of God everywhere on the earth! Jesus remains ALWAYS with these Saviours of the earth!!!

God' words>>> "Go and teach.. I am with you ALWAYS, even to the end of the world"!

annanicole The Catholic Church TEACHES ALL NATIONS, she rejects the man made tradition of; "Scriptures are the ONLY RULE!" Your Church CAN'T teach it has NO authority to teach, it has given all the authority to the Scriptures, your church is steril!!!

annanicole Jesus is always with his CHURCH.. To the end of the world, for all time, to the End of TIME, for ALL DAYS!! Jesus' Church does NOT need to be restored!

annanicole To think his body needs to be restored you MUST reject the scriptures>> God' words!

Jesus is ALWAYS with the Apostles and their successors! Jesus knew the Apostles would die.. Jesus was NOT garateeing the Apostles he would stay with only them; To the End of the world! He knew they could NOT teach ALL NATIONS before they died!
God knew he would not be ALWAYS with the Apostles when he said.. "I am with you to the end of TIME!" He was addressing HIS HOLY CATHOLIC CHURCH!!

annanicole Not your Church your church can't teach and your church rejects the scriptures!

The Apostles died and left their Bishops to continue the work of TEACHING all nations!!
The Catholic Church her Bishops TEACHE all nations! Bringing SALVATION to all the earth, bringing Jesus to all the earth!

Dogknox
annanicole
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5/20/2013 1:10:47 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Why can't you answer easy questions, Dogknox? I bold them for you most of the time. I make them as easy as possible to answer. You, however, will type all around them - and NEVER answer them as you are told to do.

With that in mind, here it is again:

TRUE or FALSE, Dogknox ... TRUE or FALSE?

"The phrase ' ... even unto the consummation of the age' must mean 'until the end of the world when Jesus returns.' No other meaning is possible."

Is that statement true or false, Dogknox? It's gotta be one or the other - and your entire religious system depends on it.

*****

It's not hard to say "true" or "false". Why don't you answer, Dogknox?
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
annanicole
Posts: 19,787
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5/20/2013 1:28:03 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
TRUE or FALSE, Dogknox ... TRUE or FALSE?

"The phrase ' ... even unto the consummation of the age' must mean 'until the end of the world when Jesus returns.' No other meaning is possible."

Is that statement true or false, Dogknox? It's gotta be one or the other - and your entire religious system depends on it.

No answer. All Dogknox had to was type "True" or "False."
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
annanicole
Posts: 19,787
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5/20/2013 1:31:49 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
While you're at it, you can answer this one:

Are you a priest? Are you a lively stone? Do you make spiritual sacrifices unto God?

It's based upon I Peter 2: 5

"Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ."

Another easy question skipped over by Dogknox.

Point to the church of Christ, again. LMAO @ Dogknox having to virtually admit that he is a priest!
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Dogknox
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5/20/2013 7:32:06 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/20/2013 1:10:47 PM, annanicole wrote:
Why can't you answer easy questions, Dogknox? I bold them for you most of the time. I make them as easy as possible to answer. You, however, will type all around them - and NEVER answer them as you are told to do.

With that in mind, here it is again:

TRUE or FALSE, Dogknox ... TRUE or FALSE?

"The phrase ' ... even unto the consummation of the age' must mean 'until the end of the world when Jesus returns.' No other meaning is possible."

Is that statement true or false, Dogknox? It's gotta be one or the other - and your entire religious system depends on it.

*****

It's not hard to say "true" or "false". Why don't you answer, Dogknox?

annanicoleYes it is TRUE the Church does NOT need to be restored! Here it is below, The scriptures do not lie!! The CHURCH TEACHES all nations before the end of the world!

The ONLY CHurch Jesus formed will TEACH all nations!
Jesus will remain with his TEACHERS ALWAYS to the very end of time..!
Jesus' Church will never need to be restored, the world will end but not the Catholic Church!
LOGIC ALONE says: The Body of Jesus will remain with Jesus.. ALWAYS!

Matthew 24:14
And this good news of God"s kingdom will be preached throughout the whole world, a testimony to all people and all nations. Then, beloved, the end, the consummation of all things, will come.

The Church will not cese.. The world will end, Jesus is with his CHURCH forever!!
The CHURCH is the body of Jesus!
Dogknox
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5/20/2013 11:44:42 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/20/2013 10:54:48 AM, AbnerGrimm wrote:
What does this mean? Now if the Church really is infallible like they say then why does a Pope have a inverted cross on his chair? Really, it is like people are entranced, it is a known satanic symbol. It is in blasphemy against the cross of Christ.
http://www.bing.com...
http://www.bing.com...

I reply.. He does NOT!
The Catholic Church is the ONLY CHURCH formed by Jesus!!
You attack Jesus!!
AbnerGrimm scriptures are very clear.. "Jesus is ALWAYS with the TEACHERS of all nations" SCRIPTURES..To the very end of the world!
Jesus started with the holy Catholic Church so he remains with her to this day!

AbnerGrimm Jesus did not start with your church, your church was made by a man!! Proving Jesus cannot be with your church today!
God' words.. "I am with you ALWAYS to the end of the world"!

Scriptures say.. "The CHURCH IS BLAMELESS"!
AbnerGrimm When this was written your church was not around so your Church cannot be the Church that is Blameless! The ONLY CHurch Jesus formed is the Holy Catholic Church so the "BLAMELESS Church" can only be the Holy Catholic Church!

Ephesians 5:27
and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless.

AbnerGrimm protestants have always rejected the scriptures.. You prove you are one!
AbnerGrimm
Posts: 114
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5/21/2013 12:17:10 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/20/2013 11:44:42 PM, Dogknox wrote:
At 5/20/2013 10:54:48 AM, AbnerGrimm wrote:
What does this mean? Now if the Church really is infallible like they say then why does a Pope have a inverted cross on his chair? Really, it is like people are entranced, it is a known satanic symbol. It is in blasphemy against the cross of Christ.
http://www.bing.com...
http://www.bing.com...

I reply.. He does NOT!

All your creditability just died. You blatantly lie. It is well known he used an inverted cross on his chair.
Composer
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5/21/2013 3:13:05 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/20/2013 11:44:42 PM, Dogknox wrote:
Ephesians 5:27
and present the church to himself in splendour, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish. (catholic Story book Satanic verses 1966 edition
We would be hard pressed to think of a worse blemished Cult than catholicism, so again even their own propaganda is again fatal to themselves, LMAO@catholicism!

QED