Total Posts:37|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

RE: Homosexuality and the Bible

gr33k_fr33k5
Posts: 321
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/28/2009 10:31:32 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
Reading the other forum topic with this title found me shaking my head, and chuckling to myself. Rawrxqueen, you are very funny by the way. . .
---NOTE: if your not a Christian. . . never use the Bible to prove your point against Christianity . . . unless your debating a 10 year old kid, any mature Christian will run circles around you with the logic of the Bible, so don't even try. . .

The Bible is VERY clear that the Old Testament (the books of the Bible from Genesis to Malachi) teaches the "Law." All the verses about stoning, slavery, and eating habits are ALL in the Law. The Law laid out what it would take to be a perfect human being in God's Eyes, and even one mess up should result in death.

The Law stated that it was wrong to "talk back" to your parents. Who hasn't done this? ummm . . .. I know I have. . .

The Law stated that it was wrong to eat pig, I for one love bacon . . . .

So according to my own religion I should be stoned, and then after death go to Hell for all eternity. . .. This however is not the case. . .
You non Christians hear all the negative things, and miss the biggest most important part. . . . anyone who places their faith in Jesus Christ is no longer held by the law! . . .. wow. . . so the Bible doesn't really teach us to sell our daughters into slavery . . .. funny. . . .oh and it also doesn't teach us to stone homosexuals. . . . funny. . . .I really thought that that was what all you ignorant people were saying. . . . you people should really learn the truth of the religion before passing judgment. You dismiss THE most prominent religion in the world by citing a few verses you don't even understand. . . .good try. ..

Verses supporting my belief:

Romans 3:27
Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. On what principle? On that of observing the law? No, but on that of faith.

Romans 7:4
So, my brothers, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit to God.

Galatians 3:5
Does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you because you observe the law, or because you believe what you heard?

Galatians 3:23
Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed.

*I could pull about a hundred more verses out of the Bible regarding this. . . but to save time this is enough . . ..
I am free, free indeed!

ignorance is bliss
wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/28/2009 7:24:59 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
I find it so interesting that Christians are always rationalizing their breaking of the Law. It's disobeying God if the bible tells you not to do something and you go do it.

You can source bible verses (mostly from Paul, the corrupt one) claiming that it isn't important at all. You could even source a quote from Jesus saying it isn't AS important as other things, but it is still important to follow the Law.
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/28/2009 7:25:42 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Gr33k, the New Testament is filled with contradictions as well. I'd like to see you run circles around that.
President of DDO
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/28/2009 7:28:14 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Also, the God of Christianity is the same God from the OT. Therefore if you believe that God is omnibenevolent, then this is just yet another direct contradiction.
President of DDO
gr33k_fr33k5
Posts: 321
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/28/2009 8:37:23 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
friends. . .. I could go into depth about hte Christian religion and how we rationalize what we do . . .. . however I for one don't have time to write a novel, so I will have to be blunt and straight forward. . .. The OT is VERY important! NONE of what is wrong in the OT is right now. All of the punishment of the OT are still deserved today. What you keep missing is that there is this man named Jesus, and he was the only person EVER to actually keep the Law, thus he fulfilled it and when he was punished unjustly for our sins, being fully God and fully man he freed us from the impossible weight of the Law.

Did I once say that I was perfect? You seem to think that just because I'm a Christian I think of you as the scum of the earth. Maybe I see you as lesser. . . .thats not it at all! I myself have been challenged in generocity and love by non Christians. True Christians don't believed that we are saved by what we have done but rather by what Jesus did. . . . .So, I have broken the law more times than I could ever hope to count, and yet I don't NEED to rationalize. . . .. I hope you all can understand. . . .

to wjmelements
what do you mean by "Paul, the corrupt one" I've never heard that used before and would like to learn a little more. . . .
I am free, free indeed!

ignorance is bliss
wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/28/2009 11:46:39 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/28/2009 8:37:23 PM, gr33k_fr33k5 wrote
to wjmelements
what do you mean by "Paul, the corrupt one" I've never heard that used before and would like to learn a little more. . . .

I have a private suspicion that Paul was in some way corrupted. I do not firmly hold this belief or have solid evidence for it, but if I put my mind to it, I could probably outline a few things.
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
Puck
Posts: 6,457
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/29/2009 12:53:14 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/28/2009 11:46:39 PM, wjmelements wrote:
At 11/28/2009 8:37:23 PM, gr33k_fr33k5 wrote
to wjmelements
what do you mean by "Paul, the corrupt one" I've never heard that used before and would like to learn a little more. . . .

I have a private suspicion that Paul was in some way corrupted. I do not firmly hold this belief or have solid evidence for it, but if I put my mind to it, I could probably outline a few things.

Richard Carrier suspects he may have been high, for a large part of it. :P
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/29/2009 12:56:59 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
logic of the Bible
That's like fish of the desert.

So are you saying you're a pro-gay Christian? Since, you know, the law no longer matters?
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/29/2009 1:00:15 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
And by fish of the desert I mean a fish of the sand, not of the oasis or whatever :P.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
gr33k_fr33k5
Posts: 321
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/29/2009 6:40:23 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/29/2009 12:56:59 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
logic of the Bible
That's like fish of the desert.

So are you saying you're a pro-gay Christian? Since, you know, the law no longer matters?

No, the Bible is clear that homosexuality is a sin, New Testament and Old Testament. Understand though that I do not hate homosexuals. I don't carry hate signs, go on protests against them, or discriminate. The Bible doesn't call us to hate them but love them, so that through that love they may see the wrongness of their ways .. . .

So, I do not agree with their lifestyles, however alienating them from society is not the answer to this, I think that the church needs to step it up in this area and show what the majority of real Christians really think . . ..
I am free, free indeed!

ignorance is bliss
banker
Posts: 1,370
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/29/2009 12:25:05 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
If your going to mock christian accepting gay,s please be honest and explain what your alternative approach would be..!! Would you rather like us to hang gay kids like its done in iran? Or if you discise yourself as a athiest inform us on your selution to the issue .!! So we should take your criticisem as productive...
the most important source for muslim Arabs:

"And thereafter We [Allah] said to the Children of Israel: 'Dwell securely in the Promised Land. And when the last warning will come to pass, we will gather you together in a mingled crowd'.".

- Qur'an 17:104 -

Any sincere muslim must recognize the Land they call "Palestine" as the Jewish Homeland, according to the book considered by muslims to be the most sacred word and Allah's ultimate revelation.

Ibn Khaldun, one of the most creditable
gr33k_fr33k5
Posts: 321
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/29/2009 7:27:07 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/29/2009 12:25:05 PM, banker wrote:
If your going to mock christian accepting gay,s please be honest and explain what your alternative approach would be..!!

umm, there was no mockery in anything I said, I merely stated the truth of the New Testament which is what I trust to be infallable . . . I already outlined the approach that I would take, and that is the same as Jesus' own approach, show them love and act as an example, it is THEIR choice to change their ways .. . . not ours

Would you rather like us to hang gay kids like its done in iran?

who said anything about hanging other than you?
I am free, free indeed!

ignorance is bliss
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/29/2009 7:46:33 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/28/2009 10:31:32 AM, gr33k_fr33k5 wrote:
anyone who places their faith in Jesus Christ is no longer held by the law!

So you concede that the Law of the Old Testament STILL applies to 2/3 of the world's population? Only 1/3 have faith in Jesus, so they are the only ones who can dismiss the law. However, this means nothing because a Christian means to already abide by the Bible.

In other words, it's ok to stone homosexuals who don't have faith in Jesus. You really think that makes matter better?
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/29/2009 8:58:54 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
No, the Bible is clear that homosexuality is a sin, New Testament and Old Testament
So anything that is in both the old and new testament as a sin you're against?

The Law stated that it was wrong to "talk back" to your parents.
anyone who places their faith in Jesus Christ is no longer held by the law!
Here you claim you're not against this one it seems.

Rom.1,27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in their own persons the due penalty for their error.
Rom.1,28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a base mind and to improper conduct.
Rom.1,29 They were filled with all manner of wickedness, evil, covetousness, malice. Full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malignity, they are gossips,
Rom.1,30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents,

But here the new testament is, holding failure to respect the authority of parents, phrased only a little differently, right on the same level as sodomy.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Zetsubou
Posts: 4,933
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/29/2009 11:51:01 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Old:
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."
Leviticus 20:13

New:
Jesus restates all act of adultery are abominations to god. Acts of Adultry defined by Moses.
'sup DDO -- july 2013
gr33k_fr33k5
Posts: 321
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/30/2009 8:24:28 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/29/2009 7:46:33 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 11/28/2009 10:31:32 AM, gr33k_fr33k5 wrote:
anyone who places their faith in Jesus Christ is no longer held by the law!

So you concede that the Law of the Old Testament STILL applies to 2/3 of the world's population? Only 1/3 have faith in Jesus, so they are the only ones who can dismiss the law. However, this means nothing because a Christian means to already abide by the Bible.

In other words, it's ok to stone homosexuals who don't have faith in Jesus. You really think that makes matter better?

Hmm, a tough question, however the Bible states that we should not judge, hence I am in NO place to stone anyone, unfortunately once we die and judgement day comes homosexuals and that other 2/3s (and probably a lot of the 1/3 also) will face the wrath of God and be sent to Hell, sorry but its true.

So again, no to the stoning, if as I said before, I don't support hate marches or discrimination against homosexuals, I most certainly don't support stoning or murder.

As Jesus said, "he who is without sin, throw the first stone"
I am free, free indeed!

ignorance is bliss
gr33k_fr33k5
Posts: 321
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/30/2009 8:31:25 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
And to the David and Jonathan question, its plainly not true, purely speculation on the part of people who want them to be gay.

My own speculation: I have many guy friends that I would count as close as brothers and would die for. I think that this is the same bond that Jonathan and David shared.

@Ragnar_Rahl
anything that the Bible condems is wrong, however the punishments for these sins, though ultimately the same unless you put your faith in Christ, is no longer death . . .. by the grace of God the Law has been fulfilled through Jesus Christ, therefore the punishments of the Law have also passed away.
I am free, free indeed!

ignorance is bliss
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/30/2009 8:33:20 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/30/2009 8:24:28 PM, gr33k_fr33k5 wrote:
At 11/29/2009 7:46:33 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 11/28/2009 10:31:32 AM, gr33k_fr33k5 wrote:
anyone who places their faith in Jesus Christ is no longer held by the law!

So you concede that the Law of the Old Testament STILL applies to 2/3 of the world's population? Only 1/3 have faith in Jesus, so they are the only ones who can dismiss the law. However, this means nothing because a Christian means to already abide by the Bible.

In other words, it's ok to stone homosexuals who don't have faith in Jesus. You really think that makes matter better?


Hmm, a tough question, however the Bible states that we should not judge, hence I am in NO place to stone anyone, unfortunately once we die and judgement day comes homosexuals and that other 2/3s (and probably a lot of the 1/3 also) will face the wrath of God and be sent to Hell, sorry but its true.

LOL. Bare assertion fallacy.

So again, no to the stoning, if as I said before, I don't support hate marches or discrimination against homosexuals, I most certainly don't support stoning or murder.

If you support the Bible, you support those things.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Zetsubou
Posts: 4,933
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/30/2009 10:11:20 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/29/2009 7:46:33 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 11/28/2009 10:31:32 AM, gr33k_fr33k5 wrote:

So again, no to the stoning, if as I said before, I don't support hate marches or discrimination against homosexuals, I most certainly don't support stoning or murder.

If you support the Bible, you support those things.

Nope:
John 8:04-8:11

4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. 5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? 6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not. 7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. 8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. 9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. 10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? 11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
'sup DDO -- july 2013
gr33k_fr33k5
Posts: 321
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/1/2009 9:02:04 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/30/2009 10:11:20 PM, Zetsubou wrote:
At 11/29/2009 7:46:33 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 11/28/2009 10:31:32 AM, gr33k_fr33k5 wrote:

So again, no to the stoning, if as I said before, I don't support hate marches or discrimination against homosexuals, I most certainly don't support stoning or murder.

If you support the Bible, you support those things.

Nope:
John 8:04-8:11

4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. 5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? 6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not. 7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. 8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. 9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. 10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? 11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

finally! someone who understands. . . . thanks man . .. . sometimes I tire of explaining the same thing time and time again. . . .
I am free, free indeed!

ignorance is bliss
gr33k_fr33k5
Posts: 321
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/1/2009 9:05:51 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
since I am getting nowhere trying to explain Christianity in light of Old vs. New Testament, I will explain it differently . . . .

as Christians we attempt to live as Jesus did, we attempt to mirror his atributes. Did Jesus stone anyone? And even without stoning people, he still managed to fulfill the law. . .. so by living as Jesus did I can not only fulfill the law but also recieve the grace that God has for me. . . . .understand?
I am free, free indeed!

ignorance is bliss
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/1/2009 10:13:19 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/30/2009 8:31:25 PM, gr33k_fr33k5 wrote:


@Ragnar_Rahl
anything that the Bible condems is wrong, however
However nothing, you admitted to failing to live up to your own standards.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
banker
Posts: 1,370
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/1/2009 11:08:54 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 12/1/2009 9:05:51 AM, gr33k_fr33k5 wrote:
since I am getting nowhere trying to explain Christianity in light of Old vs. New Testament, I will explain it differently . . . .

as Christians we attempt to live as Jesus did, we attempt to mirror his atributes. Did Jesus stone anyone?
WELL THE PEOPLE HAVING A PROBLEM WITH THAT ARE THE SAME APROVING OTHER RELIGIONS WHO ACTUALY STONE AND HANG GAY KIDS...!!
And even without stoning people, he still managed to fulfill the law. . .. so by living as Jesus did I can not only fulfill the law but also recieve the grace that God has for me. . . . .understand?
the most important source for muslim Arabs:

"And thereafter We [Allah] said to the Children of Israel: 'Dwell securely in the Promised Land. And when the last warning will come to pass, we will gather you together in a mingled crowd'.".

- Qur'an 17:104 -

Any sincere muslim must recognize the Land they call "Palestine" as the Jewish Homeland, according to the book considered by muslims to be the most sacred word and Allah's ultimate revelation.

Ibn Khaldun, one of the most creditable
gr33k_fr33k5
Posts: 321
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/1/2009 2:59:51 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 12/1/2009 10:13:19 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 11/30/2009 8:31:25 PM, gr33k_fr33k5 wrote:


@Ragnar_Rahl
anything that the Bible condems is wrong, however
However nothing, you admitted to failing to live up to your own standards.

however nothing? However is everything! that is the beauty of Christianity, this is what separates it from every other religion!

Romans 3:23
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

we know the "bar" is set impossibly high and THAT is why we need Jesus, THAT is the Gospel, and that is what has captivated many humans for the past 2000 years...

So yes, I will be the first to admit that I deserve to be stoned, before homosexuals, before adulterers, before liars, before drunkards, before anyone, because I know that I have "failed to live up to my own standards" in each of these areas.

This is why I don't believe that we should stone homosexuals. . . .

Finally some headway. . . .
I am free, free indeed!

ignorance is bliss
leet4A1
Posts: 1,986
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/1/2009 3:03:31 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 12/1/2009 2:59:51 PM, gr33k_fr33k5 wrote:
At 12/1/2009 10:13:19 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 11/30/2009 8:31:25 PM, gr33k_fr33k5 wrote:


@Ragnar_Rahl
anything that the Bible condems is wrong, however
However nothing, you admitted to failing to live up to your own standards.

however nothing? However is everything! that is the beauty of Christianity, this is what separates it from every other religion!

Romans 3:23
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

we know the "bar" is set impossibly high and THAT is why we need Jesus, THAT is the Gospel, and that is what has captivated many humans for the past 2000 years...

Not to mention the childhood brainwashing and the many times the religion has been forced upon entire popultations under threat of death for heresy. THAT is what has kept this silly superstition alive.

So yes, I will be the first to admit that I deserve to be stoned, before homosexuals, before adulterers, before liars, before drunkards, before anyone, because I know that I have "failed to live up to my own standards" in each of these areas.

You would consent to being stoned to death? Yikes...


This is why I don't believe that we should stone homosexuals. . . .

But the Bible explicitely says.... ehh this could go on forever.


Finally some headway. . . .

Ok mate lol.
"Let me tell you the truth. The truth is, 'what is'. And 'what should be' is a fantasy, a terrible terrible lie that someone gave to the people long ago. The 'what should be' never did exist, but people keep trying to live up to it. There is no 'what should be,' there is only what is." - Lenny Bruce

"Satan goes to church, did you know that?" - Godsands

"And Genisis 1 does match modern science... you just have to try really hard." - GR33K FR33K5