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Does Science refute God ?

Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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5/22/2013 3:56:18 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
That was the subject of a debate I had, for which there is few time left for voting if anyone is interested:

http://www.debate.org...

I'm not Going to make new arguments , but want to hear your opinions on the question and your arguments.
medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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5/22/2013 6:48:59 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
God made science, as well as everything that science can study. God isn't going to contradict or refute Himself. Any alledged conflicts between science and God are brought about by man's misinterpretation of evidence.
Graincruncher
Posts: 2,799
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5/22/2013 12:56:20 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/22/2013 3:56:18 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
That was the subject of a debate I had, for which there is few time left for voting if anyone is interested:

http://www.debate.org...

I'm not Going to make new arguments , but want to hear your opinions on the question and your arguments.

Science does not refute 'god' in the broad concept, but it refutes certain formulations of specific gods. Or, at the very, very least it prevents us from ever having meaningful discourse regarding them as we have no coherent way of discussing illogical concepts.
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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5/22/2013 1:20:42 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
This all depends on what you mean by "refute". Science has undermined the idea of Gods and the supernatural for a long time, but I do not think science can refute God in a sense that it can disprove God scientifically.
StevenDixon
Posts: 178
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5/22/2013 1:28:45 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/22/2013 6:48:59 AM, medic0506 wrote:
God made science, as well as everything that science can study. God isn't going to contradict or refute Himself. Any alledged conflicts between science and God are brought about by man's misinterpretation of evidence.

I don't think he's looking for an a priori assessment.
joel.burgers
Posts: 50
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5/22/2013 5:54:45 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Congratulations Fruitytree. Here"s a list of quotes by a few famous names. Read the books by these people and see if Science refutes God. Of course you can find scientists who disagree with them. But none of these guys are light weights.

"Science cannot, and does not, conclude that God is an illusion." Leonard Mlodnow

"Science, by its legitimate methods, cannot adjudicate the God question." Stephen Jay Gould

"Nature and Nature's laws lay hid in night: God said, "Let Newton be!" and all was light." Alexander Pope

"Atheism is so senseless & odious to mankind that it never had many professors" Sir Isaac Newton

"A common sense interpretation of the data suggests that a super-intellect has monkeyed with physics, as well as chemistry and biology." Fred Hoyle

"If the integrated complexity of the physical world was a good reason, as Einstein clearly thought it was, of believing that there"s an intelligence behind it, then this argument applies a fortiori to the inordinately greater complexity of the living world." Antony Flew

"The Natural Philosopher (Scientist) is the one who has the high calling of thinking God"s thoughts after him." Kepler.

"It seems to me absurd to doubt that a man may be an ardent Theist and an Evolutionist." Charles Darwin.

"An atheist has to know a lot more than I know. An atheist is someone who knows there is no god. By some definitions atheism is very stupid." Carl Sagan

"For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries." Robert Jastrow

"All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force which brings the particle of an atom to vibration and holds this most minute solar system of the atom together. We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent mind." Max Planck

"The human mind is placed above, and not beneath it, and it is in such a point of view that the mental education afforded by science is rendered super-eminent in dignity, in practical application and utility; for by enabling the mind to apply the natural power through law, it conveys the gifts of God to man." Michael Faraday

I hope this doesn't alienate any Non-theists. I assure you that this was not my intention. Science arose out of the belief that God had made a universe for us to discover. This doesn"t mean there is a God. But it suggests that Science is a poor candidate to refute the existence of the Deity.
Guy-In-Process
Posts: 36
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5/22/2013 6:07:30 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/22/2013 3:56:18 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
That was the subject of a debate I had, for which there is few time left for voting if anyone is interested:

http://www.debate.org...

I'm not Going to make new arguments , but want to hear your opinions on the question and your arguments.

This is what I think and it is very simple;

Something can not come out of or from nothing, this is impossible, we have a universe which is something, therefore something created something. I see it very reasonable that this something is God! Logical.
Guy-In-Process
Posts: 36
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5/22/2013 6:25:24 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Also it stuns me to think why mankind has such a problem with whether God exists, it is a very simple issue. It amazes me even more that atheists don't agree that nothing replicates ongoing nothingness, rather they would ultimately rather say that nothing will eventually create something. This is impossible. We all know it is impossible, but instead of admitting this the atheist comes up with excuses like; there is no proof for God, and time has always existed, and we just don't understand...yes we do. If nothing was, then nothing would be and continue to be as it is and isn't, as a void of nothingness, and nothingness brings forth nothing and nothing brings forth nothing again and again and again... Nothing haven't anything to create anything with. Easy, pointless debating over.

Does science refute God? No, not a chance. Do God exist? Absolutely, that would be a 100% yes, no chance whatsoever that God does not exist, you are mad to think otherwise. Something from something! What madness, what insanity, what illogical trite!
Guy-In-Process
Posts: 36
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5/22/2013 6:28:55 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/22/2013 6:25:24 PM, Guy-In-Process wrote:
Also it stuns me to think why mankind has such a problem with whether God exists, it is a very simple issue. It amazes me even more that atheists don't agree that nothing replicates ongoing nothingness, rather they would ultimately rather say that nothing will eventually create something. This is impossible. We all know it is impossible, but instead of admitting this the atheist comes up with excuses like; there is no proof for God, and time has always existed, and we just don't understand...yes we do. If nothing was, then nothing would be and continue to be as it is and isn't, as a void of nothingness, and nothingness brings forth nothing and nothing brings forth nothing again and again and again... Nothing haven't anything to create anything with. Easy, pointless debating over.

Does science refute God? No, not a chance. Do God exist? Absolutely, that would be a 100% yes, no chance whatsoever that God does not exist, you are mad to think otherwise. NOTHING from something! What madness, what insanity, what illogical trite!

Correction.
joel.burgers
Posts: 50
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5/22/2013 6:29:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/22/2013 6:25:24 PM, Guy-In-Process wrote:
Also it stuns me to think why mankind has such a problem with whether God exists, it is a very simple issue. It amazes me even more that atheists don't agree that nothing replicates ongoing nothingness, rather they would ultimately rather say that nothing will eventually create something. This is impossible. We all know it is impossible, but instead of admitting this the atheist comes up with excuses like; there is no proof for God, and time has always existed, and we just don't understand...yes we do. If nothing was, then nothing would be and continue to be as it is and isn't, as a void of nothingness, and nothingness brings forth nothing and nothing brings forth nothing again and again and again... Nothing haven't anything to create anything with. Easy, pointless debating over.

Does science refute God? No, not a chance. Do God exist? Absolutely, that would be a 100% yes, no chance whatsoever that God does not exist, you are mad to think otherwise. Something from something! What madness, what insanity, what illogical trite!

Amen brother!
Guy-In-Process
Posts: 36
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5/22/2013 6:30:58 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/22/2013 6:28:55 PM, Guy-In-Process wrote:
At 5/22/2013 6:25:24 PM, Guy-In-Process wrote:
Also it stuns me to think why mankind has such a problem with whether God exists, it is a very simple issue. It amazes me even more that atheists don't agree that nothing replicates ongoing nothingness, rather they would ultimately rather say that nothing will eventually create something. This is impossible. We all know it is impossible, but instead of admitting this the atheist comes up with excuses like; there is no proof for God, and time has always existed, and we just don't understand...yes we do. If nothing was, then nothing would be and continue to be as it is and isn't, as a void of nothingness, and nothingness brings forth nothing and nothing brings forth nothing again and again and again... Nothing haven't anything to create anything with. Easy, pointless debating over.

Does science refute God? No, not a chance. Do God exist? Absolutely, that would be a 100% yes, no chance whatsoever that God does not exist, you are mad to think otherwise. Something from NOTHING! What madness, what insanity, what illogical trite!

Correction II. Wasn't concentrating. Sorry.
Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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5/22/2013 7:44:05 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/22/2013 7:43:00 PM, Wnope wrote:
Science only refutes the most crass and uninteresting conceptions of God.

Example:

"My God makes it so nothing acts under gravity."
"Dude, gravity is working."
"oh, I guess God doesn't exist."
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,242
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5/22/2013 7:52:06 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
No, but it refutes the fanciful and unfounded claims made by those who claim to have proven their God's existence over another.
Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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5/22/2013 8:00:32 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/22/2013 7:52:06 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
No, but it refutes the fanciful and unfounded claims made by those who claim to have proven their God's existence over another.

Not all of them. For example, those based on a priori assumptions instead of empirical investigation.
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,242
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5/22/2013 8:06:49 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/22/2013 8:00:32 PM, Wnope wrote:
At 5/22/2013 7:52:06 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
No, but it refutes the fanciful and unfounded claims made by those who claim to have proven their God's existence over another.

Not all of them. For example, those based on a priori assumptions instead of empirical investigation.

Read the last part of what I said.
Dan4reason
Posts: 1,168
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5/22/2013 8:18:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/22/2013 6:07:30 PM, Guy-In-Process wrote:
At 5/22/2013 3:56:18 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
That was the subject of a debate I had, for which there is few time left for voting if anyone is interested:

http://www.debate.org...

I'm not Going to make new arguments , but want to hear your opinions on the question and your arguments.

This is what I think and it is very simple;

Something can not come out of or from nothing, this is impossible, we have a universe which is something, therefore something created something. I see it very reasonable that this something is God! Logical.

So why do you think that something has to be God exactly?
Hvaniratha
Posts: 37
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5/22/2013 9:30:13 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
" The existence of the creator, Ohrmazd, is manifested by the formation of the Creation. "
-- Denkard, book 3

I do not think science refutes Ohrmazd. Since Ohrmazd created " the Universe " it should be that science re-affirms Ohrmazd existence.
Guy-In-Process
Posts: 36
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5/22/2013 9:59:13 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/22/2013 8:18:01 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
At 5/22/2013 6:07:30 PM, Guy-In-Process wrote:
At 5/22/2013 3:56:18 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
That was the subject of a debate I had, for which there is few time left for voting if anyone is interested:

http://www.debate.org...

I'm not Going to make new arguments , but want to hear your opinions on the question and your arguments.

This is what I think and it is very simple;

Something can not come out of or from nothing, this is impossible, we have a universe which is something, therefore something created something. I see it very reasonable that this something is God! Logical.

So why do you think that something has to be God exactly?

Well it isn't another universe, how stupid is that? I think it is God because the creator (whatever it might be at this moment in discussion) cannot be an inanimate object, for such does not give meaning or put into existence intelligence. The creator had to be all intelligent, as it created the universe, it will know everything about the universe. The creator had to be timeless. Silly to think the creator of the universe is not bound by physical matter but by time. And the creator that created the human race is more intelligent that it, so it must have a God status. So the creator is God.
Dan4reason
Posts: 1,168
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5/22/2013 10:17:31 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/22/2013 9:59:13 PM, Guy-In-Process wrote:
At 5/22/2013 8:18:01 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
At 5/22/2013 6:07:30 PM, Guy-In-Process wrote:
At 5/22/2013 3:56:18 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
That was the subject of a debate I had, for which there is few time left for voting if anyone is interested:

http://www.debate.org...

I'm not Going to make new arguments , but want to hear your opinions on the question and your arguments.

This is what I think and it is very simple;

Something can not come out of or from nothing, this is impossible, we have a universe which is something, therefore something created something. I see it very reasonable that this something is God! Logical.

So why do you think that something has to be God exactly?

Well it isn't another universe, how stupid is that? I think it is God because the creator (whatever it might be at this moment in discussion) cannot be an inanimate object, for such does not give meaning or put into existence intelligence.

Intelligence came from the brain, and the brain formed by evolution not God.

The creator had to be all intelligent, as it created the universe, it will know everything about the universe.

So because something is able to form a universe it must both have a brain and be able to do everything? How does this follow?

The creator had to be timeless.

Makes sense.

Silly to think the creator of the universe is not bound by physical matter but by time. And the creator that created the human race is more intelligent that it, so it must have a God status. So the creator is God.

Evolution created the human race not God. We have fossils proving it.
Guy-In-Process
Posts: 36
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5/22/2013 10:32:27 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/22/2013 10:17:31 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
At 5/22/2013 9:59:13 PM, Guy-In-Process wrote:
At 5/22/2013 8:18:01 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
At 5/22/2013 6:07:30 PM, Guy-In-Process wrote:
At 5/22/2013 3:56:18 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
That was the subject of a debate I had, for which there is few time left for voting if anyone is interested:

http://www.debate.org...

I'm not Going to make new arguments , but want to hear your opinions on the question and your arguments.

This is what I think and it is very simple;

Something can not come out of or from nothing, this is impossible, we have a universe which is something, therefore something created something. I see it very reasonable that this something is God! Logical.

So why do you think that something has to be God exactly?

Well it isn't another universe, how stupid is that? I think it is God because the creator (whatever it might be at this moment in discussion) cannot be an inanimate object, for such does not give meaning or put into existence intelligence.

Intelligence came from the brain, and the brain formed by evolution not God.

Don't think evolution ever happened.:

The creator had to be all intelligent, as it created the universe, it will know everything about the universe.

So because something is able to form a universe it must both have a brain and be able to do everything? How does this follow?

You have a brain, make me a car from scratch, even with materials you can, yet you have a brain. So the creator doesn't have any intelligence and created the universe, set all the laws, such a gravity, created life and engineered it out of nothing and you are more intelligent, yet you cannot make a car, even with the materials?

The creator had to be timeless.

Makes sense.

Yes:

Silly to think the creator of the universe is not bound by physical matter but by time. And the creator that created the human race is more intelligent that it, so it must have a God status. So the creator is God.

Evolution created the human race not God. We have fossils proving it.

Fossils prove an evolutionary theory whereby over millions of years, creatures change very slightly in their anatomy, psychology and behavior, as well as their appearance, nature, types of sounds they create to the complexity of all the bodily systems all working together as if they had to exist all at the same time, such as the respiratory system, to the cardiovascular system, and the nervous system to the brain and heart and all the organs and the insane complexity of the cell, in that throughout the millions of years, there couldn't be a single flaw that would cause any self elimination, and all this can be found by looking at rocks? I think otherwise. I think that God created the world and created everything there is in it.
Dan4reason
Posts: 1,168
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5/22/2013 11:12:28 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/22/2013 10:32:27 PM, Guy-In-Process wrote:
At 5/22/2013 10:17:31 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
At 5/22/2013 9:59:13 PM, Guy-In-Process wrote:
At 5/22/2013 8:18:01 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
At 5/22/2013 6:07:30 PM, Guy-In-Process wrote:
At 5/22/2013 3:56:18 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
That was the subject of a debate I had, for which there is few time left for voting if anyone is interested:

http://www.debate.org...

I'm not Going to make new arguments , but want to hear your opinions on the question and your arguments.

This is what I think and it is very simple;

Something can not come out of or from nothing, this is impossible, we have a universe which is something, therefore something created something. I see it very reasonable that this something is God! Logical.

So why do you think that something has to be God exactly?

Well it isn't another universe, how stupid is that? I think it is God because the creator (whatever it might be at this moment in discussion) cannot be an inanimate object, for such does not give meaning or put into existence intelligence.

Intelligence came from the brain, and the brain formed by evolution not God.

Don't think evolution ever happened.:

What do you think of Homo Erectus?

Average brain Size: 750 cc while human average is 1350 cc, and human lower limit is 1000 cc.
Lower body near identical to humans.
Large nose, protruding jaw and eye brows, small brain.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com...
Hundreds of specimens found, often found together. We also find them in lower strata than we find modern human skeletons.

The creator had to be all intelligent, as it created the universe, it will know everything about the universe.

So because something is able to form a universe it must both have a brain and be able to do everything? How does this follow?

You have a brain, make me a car from scratch, even with materials you can, yet you have a brain. So the creator doesn't have any intelligence and created the universe, set all the laws, such a gravity, created life and engineered it out of nothing and you are more intelligent, yet you cannot make a car, even with the materials?

Gravity is a law only in that it is a mathematical relationship humans discovered in nature and expressed in writing as a rule. All gravity is, is that matter has the property of attracting matter at a consistent rate. This is just an inherent property of matter.

You mentioned life. We will get to that in our debate over evolution.

Silly to think the creator of the universe is not bound by physical matter but by time. And the creator that created the human race is more intelligent that it, so it must have a God status. So the creator is God.

Evolution created the human race not God. We have fossils proving it.

Fossils prove an evolutionary theory whereby over millions of years, creatures change very slightly in their anatomy, psychology and behavior, as well as their appearance, nature, types of sounds they create to the complexity of all the bodily systems all working together as if they had to exist all at the same time, such as the respiratory system, to the cardiovascular system, and the nervous system to the brain and heart and all the organs and the insane complexity of the cell, in that throughout the millions of years, there couldn't be a single flaw that would cause any self elimination, and all this can be found by looking at rocks? I think otherwise. I think that God created the world and created everything there is in it.

So how can we evolve several different vital organs gradually if the loss of even one kills us? This is a good question and seems impossible to answer. The answer is that our ancestors did not need these organs, and they evolved them only for improvement. As these organs became more used they eventually became necessary for survival.

We also know evolution is true through the study of endogenous retroviruses. I will be using the below link as a source:
http://www.evolutionarymodel.com...

Viruses infect bodies by injecting their DNA into cells. Sometimes their DNA is injected into a reproductive cell and when a child is born using that cell, the child now has that viral DNA and these are called Endogenous Retroviruses (ERVs). These viral DNA packages contain several well-known genes that help the viruses propagate themselves and these genes are placed right beside each other. Scientists have looked through human DNA and have found many of these elements in human DNA.

In fact, they have also sequences the chimp genome and have found many of the ERVs in the exact same location as they are in the human Genome. It is unlikely that this could happen by chance. What logically happened is that a common ancestor of humans and chimps had an ERV, and humans and chimps inherited that same ERV from that common ancestor.
Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
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5/22/2013 11:17:18 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/22/2013 6:48:59 AM, medic0506 wrote:
God made science

Prove it
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