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Atheism is Faith-based

Talib.ul-Ilm
Posts: 203
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5/25/2013 10:08:12 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Faith is defined as the complete trust or confidence in something.

Atheists do not have definitive and empirical evidence that God is not real.

Therefore they have faith that God is not real.
muzebreak
Posts: 2,781
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5/25/2013 10:09:45 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Depends on your definition of god.

And it depends on your definition of atheism

And it depends on your definition of evidence.

Really, it's just an assertion muddled in semantics.
"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.
bladerunner060
Posts: 7,126
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5/25/2013 10:11:02 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/25/2013 10:08:12 PM, Talib.ul-Ilm wrote:
Faith is defined as the complete trust or confidence in something.

Atheists do not have definitive and empirical evidence that God is not real.

Therefore they have faith that God is not real.

First off, your conclusion is a nonsequitur. The conclusion does not follow from the premises.

Second off: very few atheists actively deny all possibility of a god, they simply assert that the burden of proof has not been met for any specific conception.
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Talib.ul-Ilm
Posts: 203
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5/25/2013 10:12:44 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Faith is defined as the complete trust or confidence in something.

Atheism is defined as the disbelief in God in any way, shape or form.

Atheists do not have definitive and empirical evidence that God is not real.

Therefore they have faith that God is not real.
Talib.ul-Ilm
Posts: 203
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5/25/2013 10:17:09 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Not seeing a God who is typically defined as transcendent, beyond the range of normal or merely physical human experience, and incorporeal, not composed of matter, having no material existence, is not definitive and empirical evidence that there is no God.
muzebreak
Posts: 2,781
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5/25/2013 10:30:37 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/25/2013 10:12:44 PM, Talib.ul-Ilm wrote:
Faith is defined as the complete trust or confidence in something.

Atheism is defined as the disbelief in God in any way, shape or form.

Atheists do not have definitive and empirical evidence that God is not real.

Therefore they have faith that God is not real.

And there we have, at complete logical disconnect in action. How do you connect premise 2 and 3, with the conclusion?
"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.
muzebreak
Posts: 2,781
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5/25/2013 10:32:00 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/25/2013 10:17:09 PM, Talib.ul-Ilm wrote:
Not seeing a God who is typically defined as transcendent, beyond the range of normal or merely physical human experience, and incorporeal, not composed of matter, having no material existence, is not definitive and empirical evidence that there is no God.

You're islamic, where's our miracles? Why'd god just suddenly stop the miracles? Why'd he stop telling huge groups of people, to murder other huge groups of people? What's up with your gods lack of action in the real world lately?
"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.
Talib.ul-Ilm
Posts: 203
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5/25/2013 10:32:34 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/25/2013 10:30:37 PM, muzebreak wrote:
At 5/25/2013 10:12:44 PM, Talib.ul-Ilm wrote:
Faith is defined as the complete trust or confidence in something.

Atheism is defined as the disbelief in God in any way, shape or form.

Atheists do not have definitive and empirical evidence that God is not real.

Therefore they have faith that God is not real.

And there we have, at complete logical disconnect in action. How do you connect premise 2 and 3, with the conclusion?

You can not know for a fact that God is not real if you do not have definitive and empirical evidence of His non-existence, therefore you can only have complete trust or confidence in God's non-existence.
bladerunner060
Posts: 7,126
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5/25/2013 10:34:56 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/25/2013 10:32:34 PM, Talib.ul-Ilm wrote:
At 5/25/2013 10:30:37 PM, muzebreak wrote:
At 5/25/2013 10:12:44 PM, Talib.ul-Ilm wrote:
Faith is defined as the complete trust or confidence in something.

Atheism is defined as the disbelief in God in any way, shape or form.

Atheists do not have definitive and empirical evidence that God is not real.

Therefore they have faith that God is not real.

And there we have, at complete logical disconnect in action. How do you connect premise 2 and 3, with the conclusion?

You can not know for a fact that God is not real if you do not have definitive and empirical evidence of His non-existence, therefore you can only have complete trust or confidence in God's non-existence.

No, it means we completely lack faith in his existence. There's a difference there. There are an infinite number of gods, believing in them all because of a lack of evidence is absurd and contradictory. I'm sure the vast majority of atheists would believe if there were decent evidence. They might not worship, but they'd believe.
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Talib.ul-Ilm
Posts: 203
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5/25/2013 10:38:48 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/25/2013 10:34:56 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 5/25/2013 10:32:34 PM, Talib.ul-Ilm wrote:
At 5/25/2013 10:30:37 PM, muzebreak wrote:
At 5/25/2013 10:12:44 PM, Talib.ul-Ilm wrote:
Faith is defined as the complete trust or confidence in something.

Atheism is defined as the disbelief in God in any way, shape or form.

Atheists do not have definitive and empirical evidence that God is not real.

Therefore they have faith that God is not real.

And there we have, at complete logical disconnect in action. How do you connect premise 2 and 3, with the conclusion?

You can not know for a fact that God is not real if you do not have definitive and empirical evidence of His non-existence, therefore you can only have complete trust or confidence in God's non-existence.

No, it means we completely lack faith in his existence. There's a difference there. There are an infinite number of gods, believing in them all because of a lack of evidence is absurd and contradictory. I'm sure the vast majority of atheists would believe if there were decent evidence. They might not worship, but they'd believe.

You're incorrect. There are very strong and valid arguments for the existence of God. There are very strong and valid arguments for the non-existence of God. Neither side has definitive and empirical evidence for the existence or non-existence of God, therefore both sides have faith, the complete trust in and confidence of their opinion being true.
muzebreak
Posts: 2,781
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5/25/2013 10:39:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/25/2013 10:32:34 PM, Talib.ul-Ilm wrote:
At 5/25/2013 10:30:37 PM, muzebreak wrote:
At 5/25/2013 10:12:44 PM, Talib.ul-Ilm wrote:
Faith is defined as the complete trust or confidence in something.

Atheism is defined as the disbelief in God in any way, shape or form.

Atheists do not have definitive and empirical evidence that God is not real.

Therefore they have faith that God is not real.

And there we have, at complete logical disconnect in action. How do you connect premise 2 and 3, with the conclusion?

You can not know for a fact that God is not real if you do not have definitive and empirical evidence of His non-existence, therefore you can only have complete trust or confidence in God's non-existence.

Do you know what the word disbelief means?
"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.
flaskblob
Posts: 68
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5/25/2013 10:42:53 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/25/2013 10:08:12 PM, Talib.ul-Ilm wrote:
Faith is defined as the complete trust or confidence in something.

Atheists do not have definitive and empirical evidence that God is not real.

Therefore they have faith that God is not real.

so is not believing in unicorns
Of course I'm using those fallacies; they're the only logical ones." - f3ffy
Talib.ul-Ilm
Posts: 203
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5/25/2013 10:50:13 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/25/2013 10:39:23 PM, muzebreak wrote:
At 5/25/2013 10:32:34 PM, Talib.ul-Ilm wrote:
At 5/25/2013 10:30:37 PM, muzebreak wrote:
At 5/25/2013 10:12:44 PM, Talib.ul-Ilm wrote:
Faith is defined as the complete trust or confidence in something.

Atheism is defined as the disbelief in God in any way, shape or form.

Atheists do not have definitive and empirical evidence that God is not real.

Therefore they have faith that God is not real.

And there we have, at complete logical disconnect in action. How do you connect premise 2 and 3, with the conclusion?

You can not know for a fact that God is not real if you do not have definitive and empirical evidence of His non-existence, therefore you can only have complete trust or confidence in God's non-existence.

Do you know what the word disbelief means?

It can be either the inability or refusal to accept that something is true or real or the lack of faith in something.
Talib.ul-Ilm
Posts: 203
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5/25/2013 10:51:12 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/25/2013 10:42:53 PM, flaskblob wrote:
At 5/25/2013 10:08:12 PM, Talib.ul-Ilm wrote:
Faith is defined as the complete trust or confidence in something.

Atheists do not have definitive and empirical evidence that God is not real.

Therefore they have faith that God is not real.

so is not believing in unicorns

That's a cliche, only the ignorant use that. The concepts of God and religion are nowhere near the level of mythological beasts such as the unicorn.
YYW
Posts: 36,289
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5/25/2013 10:52:36 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/25/2013 10:08:12 PM, Talib.ul-Ilm wrote:
Faith is defined as the complete trust or confidence in something.

Atheists do not have definitive and empirical evidence that God is not real.

Therefore they have faith that God is not real.

Interesting, and I'll have to agree with you on that -though atheists would probably argue that it's irrational to believe in something for which there is no proof and deny that they are having faith in a position at all.
Tsar of DDO
muzebreak
Posts: 2,781
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5/25/2013 10:54:58 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/25/2013 10:50:13 PM, Talib.ul-Ilm wrote:
At 5/25/2013 10:39:23 PM, muzebreak wrote:
At 5/25/2013 10:32:34 PM, Talib.ul-Ilm wrote:
At 5/25/2013 10:30:37 PM, muzebreak wrote:
At 5/25/2013 10:12:44 PM, Talib.ul-Ilm wrote:
Faith is defined as the complete trust or confidence in something.

Atheism is defined as the disbelief in God in any way, shape or form.

Atheists do not have definitive and empirical evidence that God is not real.

Therefore they have faith that God is not real.

And there we have, at complete logical disconnect in action. How do you connect premise 2 and 3, with the conclusion?

You can not know for a fact that God is not real if you do not have definitive and empirical evidence of His non-existence, therefore you can only have complete trust or confidence in God's non-existence.

Do you know what the word disbelief means?

It can be either the inability or refusal to accept that something is true or real or the lack of faith in something.

See, there we go. Your issue is that you some how equate disbelief in something, with active belief in the non-existence of something. How you do that, I don't know, because you defined disbelief correctly.
"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.
Talib.ul-Ilm
Posts: 203
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5/25/2013 10:55:22 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/25/2013 10:52:36 PM, YYW wrote:
At 5/25/2013 10:08:12 PM, Talib.ul-Ilm wrote:
Faith is defined as the complete trust or confidence in something.

Atheists do not have definitive and empirical evidence that God is not real.

Therefore they have faith that God is not real.

Interesting, and I'll have to agree with you on that -though atheists would probably argue that it's irrational to believe in something for which there is no proof and deny that they are having faith in a position at all.

Yep. And the point is that there is no definitive and empirical evidence for either side, and both sides have very strong and valid arguments.

I made this thread to get rid of this nasty little cliche that Atheists have, that they don't have faith like us Theists.
muzebreak
Posts: 2,781
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5/25/2013 11:00:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/25/2013 10:32:00 PM, muzebreak wrote:
At 5/25/2013 10:17:09 PM, Talib.ul-Ilm wrote:
Not seeing a God who is typically defined as transcendent, beyond the range of normal or merely physical human experience, and incorporeal, not composed of matter, having no material existence, is not definitive and empirical evidence that there is no God.

You're islamic, where's our miracles? Why'd god just suddenly stop the miracles? Why'd he stop telling huge groups of people, to murder other huge groups of people? What's up with your gods lack of action in the real world lately?

You gonna answer this?
"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.
Talib.ul-Ilm
Posts: 203
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5/25/2013 11:00:18 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/25/2013 10:54:58 PM, muzebreak wrote:
At 5/25/2013 10:50:13 PM, Talib.ul-Ilm wrote:
At 5/25/2013 10:39:23 PM, muzebreak wrote:
At 5/25/2013 10:32:34 PM, Talib.ul-Ilm wrote:
At 5/25/2013 10:30:37 PM, muzebreak wrote:
At 5/25/2013 10:12:44 PM, Talib.ul-Ilm wrote:
Faith is defined as the complete trust or confidence in something.

Atheism is defined as the disbelief in God in any way, shape or form.

Atheists do not have definitive and empirical evidence that God is not real.

Therefore they have faith that God is not real.

And there we have, at complete logical disconnect in action. How do you connect premise 2 and 3, with the conclusion?

You can not know for a fact that God is not real if you do not have definitive and empirical evidence of His non-existence, therefore you can only have complete trust or confidence in God's non-existence.

Do you know what the word disbelief means?

It can be either the inability or refusal to accept that something is true or real or the lack of faith in something.

See, there we go. Your issue is that you some how equate disbelief in something, with active belief in the non-existence of something. How you do that, I don't know, because you defined disbelief correctly.

You're kidding, right?

Belief is defined as an acceptance that a statement is true or that something exists or something one accepts as true or real; a firmly held opinion or conviction.

Disbelief is defined as the inability or refusal to accept that something is true or real or the lack of faith in something.

You believe in the non-existence of God.

Therefore you disbelieve in the existence of God.

Therefore you both disbelieve and believe.

I know that you don't know because you would be famous for having definitive and empirical evidence of the non-existence of God.
bladerunner060
Posts: 7,126
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5/25/2013 11:01:21 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/25/2013 10:51:12 PM, Talib.ul-Ilm wrote:
At 5/25/2013 10:42:53 PM, flaskblob wrote:
At 5/25/2013 10:08:12 PM, Talib.ul-Ilm wrote:
Faith is defined as the complete trust or confidence in something.

Atheists do not have definitive and empirical evidence that God is not real.

Therefore they have faith that God is not real.

so is not believing in unicorns

That's a cliche, only the ignorant use that. The concepts of God and religion are nowhere near the level of mythological beasts such as the unicorn.

How is it different?
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Talib.ul-Ilm
Posts: 203
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5/25/2013 11:01:34 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/25/2013 11:00:10 PM, muzebreak wrote:
At 5/25/2013 10:32:00 PM, muzebreak wrote:
At 5/25/2013 10:17:09 PM, Talib.ul-Ilm wrote:
Not seeing a God who is typically defined as transcendent, beyond the range of normal or merely physical human experience, and incorporeal, not composed of matter, having no material existence, is not definitive and empirical evidence that there is no God.

You're islamic, where's our miracles? Why'd god just suddenly stop the miracles? Why'd he stop telling huge groups of people, to murder other huge groups of people? What's up with your gods lack of action in the real world lately?

You gonna answer this?

This requires a deep discussion in theology. It is irrelevant to the discussion at hand. Create a new thread about this topic and I will reply.
muzebreak
Posts: 2,781
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5/25/2013 11:02:53 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/25/2013 11:00:18 PM, Talib.ul-Ilm wrote:
At 5/25/2013 10:54:58 PM, muzebreak wrote:
At 5/25/2013 10:50:13 PM, Talib.ul-Ilm wrote:
At 5/25/2013 10:39:23 PM, muzebreak wrote:
At 5/25/2013 10:32:34 PM, Talib.ul-Ilm wrote:
At 5/25/2013 10:30:37 PM, muzebreak wrote:
At 5/25/2013 10:12:44 PM, Talib.ul-Ilm wrote:
Faith is defined as the complete trust or confidence in something.

Atheism is defined as the disbelief in God in any way, shape or form.

Atheists do not have definitive and empirical evidence that God is not real.

Therefore they have faith that God is not real.

And there we have, at complete logical disconnect in action. How do you connect premise 2 and 3, with the conclusion?

You can not know for a fact that God is not real if you do not have definitive and empirical evidence of His non-existence, therefore you can only have complete trust or confidence in God's non-existence.

Do you know what the word disbelief means?

It can be either the inability or refusal to accept that something is true or real or the lack of faith in something.

See, there we go. Your issue is that you some how equate disbelief in something, with active belief in the non-existence of something. How you do that, I don't know, because you defined disbelief correctly.

You're kidding, right?

Belief is defined as an acceptance that a statement is true or that something exists or something one accepts as true or real; a firmly held opinion or conviction.

Disbelief is defined as the inability or refusal to accept that something is true or real or the lack of faith in something.


Therefore you disbelieve in the existence of God.

Therefore you disbelieve.

I know that you don't know because you would be famous for having definitive and empirical evidence of the non-existence of God.

There, I fixed that for you.
"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.
bladerunner060
Posts: 7,126
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5/25/2013 11:05:29 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Talib, what do you think the "neutral" position is, if one were to have no faith, as you understand it?
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muzebreak
Posts: 2,781
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5/25/2013 11:06:02 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/25/2013 11:01:34 PM, Talib.ul-Ilm wrote:
At 5/25/2013 11:00:10 PM, muzebreak wrote:
At 5/25/2013 10:32:00 PM, muzebreak wrote:
At 5/25/2013 10:17:09 PM, Talib.ul-Ilm wrote:
Not seeing a God who is typically defined as transcendent, beyond the range of normal or merely physical human experience, and incorporeal, not composed of matter, having no material existence, is not definitive and empirical evidence that there is no God.

You're islamic, where's our miracles? Why'd god just suddenly stop the miracles? Why'd he stop telling huge groups of people, to murder other huge groups of people? What's up with your gods lack of action in the real world lately?

You gonna answer this?

This requires a deep discussion in theology. It is irrelevant to the discussion at hand. Create a new thread about this topic and I will reply.

What's wrong with this thread? And it is entirely relevant. Your god was supposedly big into miracles, and intervening, and proving himself. Suddenly, he stopped. Maybe he stopped because, as Neitzsche said, "God is dead".
"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.
Talib.ul-Ilm
Posts: 203
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5/25/2013 11:06:55 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/25/2013 11:01:21 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 5/25/2013 10:51:12 PM, Talib.ul-Ilm wrote:
At 5/25/2013 10:42:53 PM, flaskblob wrote:
At 5/25/2013 10:08:12 PM, Talib.ul-Ilm wrote:
Faith is defined as the complete trust or confidence in something.

Atheists do not have definitive and empirical evidence that God is not real.

Therefore they have faith that God is not real.

so is not believing in unicorns

That's a cliche, only the ignorant use that. The concepts of God and religion are nowhere near the level of mythological beasts such as the unicorn.

How is it different?

One, the concept of God is nowhere near the level of the idea of the unicorn. It has been a topic of serious discussion and debate since the beginnings of mankind.

Two, the concept of God is found within every single culture of mankind, the unicorn is relevant to only certain cultures.

Three, the message typically behind the concept of God, is that of eternal hell or bliss, the purpose of our existence, the nature of our existence, and much more. Far from comparable to the unicorn.

Four, there are no longer witnesses of any kind about the existence of the unicorn, yet on the contrary, there are millions of witnesses as far as the existence of God. A main kind of witness being a philosopher who logically and rationally concludes the existence of God.

Five, it's an insulting psychological tactic that completely ignores the above reasons and others to imply that the concept of God has the weight of a mythological creature that is considered by all to be non-existent.
Talib.ul-Ilm
Posts: 203
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5/25/2013 11:07:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/25/2013 11:02:53 PM, muzebreak wrote:
At 5/25/2013 11:00:18 PM, Talib.ul-Ilm wrote:
At 5/25/2013 10:54:58 PM, muzebreak wrote:
At 5/25/2013 10:50:13 PM, Talib.ul-Ilm wrote:
At 5/25/2013 10:39:23 PM, muzebreak wrote:
At 5/25/2013 10:32:34 PM, Talib.ul-Ilm wrote:
At 5/25/2013 10:30:37 PM, muzebreak wrote:
At 5/25/2013 10:12:44 PM, Talib.ul-Ilm wrote:
Faith is defined as the complete trust or confidence in something.

Atheism is defined as the disbelief in God in any way, shape or form.

Atheists do not have definitive and empirical evidence that God is not real.

Therefore they have faith that God is not real.

And there we have, at complete logical disconnect in action. How do you connect premise 2 and 3, with the conclusion?

You can not know for a fact that God is not real if you do not have definitive and empirical evidence of His non-existence, therefore you can only have complete trust or confidence in God's non-existence.

Do you know what the word disbelief means?

It can be either the inability or refusal to accept that something is true or real or the lack of faith in something.

See, there we go. Your issue is that you some how equate disbelief in something, with active belief in the non-existence of something. How you do that, I don't know, because you defined disbelief correctly.

You're kidding, right?

Belief is defined as an acceptance that a statement is true or that something exists or something one accepts as true or real; a firmly held opinion or conviction.

Disbelief is defined as the inability or refusal to accept that something is true or real or the lack of faith in something.


Therefore you disbelieve in the existence of God.

Therefore you disbelieve.

I know that you don't know because you would be famous for having definitive and empirical evidence of the non-existence of God.

There, I fixed that for you.

To disbelieve in God is to believe in no God.
Talib.ul-Ilm
Posts: 203
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5/25/2013 11:08:53 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/25/2013 11:05:29 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
Talib, what do you think the "neutral" position is, if one were to have no faith, as you understand it?

I don't have much to say about Agnostics, except that they are not excommunicated.
muzebreak
Posts: 2,781
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5/25/2013 11:10:05 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/25/2013 11:07:41 PM, Talib.ul-Ilm wrote:
At 5/25/2013 11:02:53 PM, muzebreak wrote:
At 5/25/2013 11:00:18 PM, Talib.ul-Ilm wrote:
At 5/25/2013 10:54:58 PM, muzebreak wrote:
At 5/25/2013 10:50:13 PM, Talib.ul-Ilm wrote:
At 5/25/2013 10:39:23 PM, muzebreak wrote:
At 5/25/2013 10:32:34 PM, Talib.ul-Ilm wrote:
At 5/25/2013 10:30:37 PM, muzebreak wrote:
At 5/25/2013 10:12:44 PM, Talib.ul-Ilm wrote:
Faith is defined as the complete trust or confidence in something.

Atheism is defined as the disbelief in God in any way, shape or form.

Atheists do not have definitive and empirical evidence that God is not real.

Therefore they have faith that God is not real.

And there we have, at complete logical disconnect in action. How do you connect premise 2 and 3, with the conclusion?

You can not know for a fact that God is not real if you do not have definitive and empirical evidence of His non-existence, therefore you can only have complete trust or confidence in God's non-existence.

Do you know what the word disbelief means?

It can be either the inability or refusal to accept that something is true or real or the lack of faith in something.

See, there we go. Your issue is that you some how equate disbelief in something, with active belief in the non-existence of something. How you do that, I don't know, because you defined disbelief correctly.

You're kidding, right?

Belief is defined as an acceptance that a statement is true or that something exists or something one accepts as true or real; a firmly held opinion or conviction.

Disbelief is defined as the inability or refusal to accept that something is true or real or the lack of faith in something.


Therefore you disbelieve in the existence of God.

Therefore you disbelieve.

I know that you don't know because you would be famous for having definitive and empirical evidence of the non-existence of God.

There, I fixed that for you.

To disbelieve in God is to believe in no God.

Correct. But it is not to believe the god does not exist. I do not believe in a god, but I do not believe that god does not exist. It's kind of hard to either without a definition of god, you see.
"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.
bladerunner060
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5/25/2013 11:11:53 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/25/2013 11:06:55 PM, Talib.ul-Ilm wrote:
At 5/25/2013 11:01:21 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 5/25/2013 10:51:12 PM, Talib.ul-Ilm wrote:
At 5/25/2013 10:42:53 PM, flaskblob wrote:
At 5/25/2013 10:08:12 PM, Talib.ul-Ilm wrote:
Faith is defined as the complete trust or confidence in something.

Atheists do not have definitive and empirical evidence that God is not real.

Therefore they have faith that God is not real.

so is not believing in unicorns

That's a cliche, only the ignorant use that. The concepts of God and religion are nowhere near the level of mythological beasts such as the unicorn.

How is it different?

One, the concept of God is nowhere near the level of the idea of the unicorn. It has been a topic of serious discussion and debate since the beginnings of mankind.

Nothing to do with the concept. One can have "serious discussions" about anything. I have binders for a Zombie Apocalypse plan.


Two, the concept of God is found within every single culture of mankind, the unicorn is relevant to only certain cultures.

That's at best a minor point, but I concede it. Still has no bearing whatsoever on the validity of the concept. The example could simply be expanded to "mythical creatures" instead of "unicorns", sort of like saying "God" instead of "Allah" (Yes, I'm aware of the meaning of the words, I'm saying that Allah is generally considered specific to the Islamic god, in English speaking countries, while God is generally judeochristian, in general conversation it can also be non-specific).


Three, the message typically behind the concept of God, is that of eternal hell or bliss, the purpose of our existence, the nature of our existence, and much more. Far from comparable to the unicorn.

That has nothing to do with the belief, itself. Of course they aren't identical. I concede I asked "what's the difference", but I was speaking more "in terms of the analogy"


Four, there are no longer witnesses of any kind about the existence of the unicorn, yet on the contrary, there are millions of witnesses as far as the existence of God. A main kind of witness being a philosopher who logically and rationally concludes the existence of God.

No, it isn't. That's not a "witness". That's a philosopher. I can conclude who committed a crime, I'm not a witness of the crime unless I saw it.


Five, it's an insulting psychological tactic that completely ignores the above reasons and others to imply that the concept of God has the weight of a mythological creature that is considered by all to be non-existent.

And yet, you can give no compelling reason that there is a difference in kind to the beliefs, instead pointing out only surface details, like someone saying their conception of the unicorn is TOTALLY DIFFERENT, because it has WINGS, therefore it is a much more valid kind of unicorn than those dumb wingless ones.
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