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challenge to you non-believers

mistavega
Posts: 30
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11/30/2009 12:56:56 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
Have any of you atheist actually tried to pray to god? Suppose I told you that if you prayed to god asking him(the entity) to prove his existence, in time he will prove his existence to you.

Will you be open minded enough to try it out? If you're open minded enough to try it out, then I challenge you to pray to god at least 3 times a week for atleast a month. You don't have to pray solely about asking him to prove his existence either, you can pray about anything you think an omnipotent creator could help you out with, as long as it's not immoral, or completely goofy. The prayer has to be sincere.

So.........
sherlockmethod
Posts: 317
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11/30/2009 1:33:11 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
Do you see that you are offering nothing? Pray and whatever results, so long as it it is not immoral or goofy, means what? Any response a person gives will support your position so you have really not done anything. Do not expect a positve response to this one.
Library cards: Stopping stupid one book at a time.
Puck
Posts: 6,457
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11/30/2009 1:59:51 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
Lol.

What exactly am I praying to?

Which non-god would you prefer?

How do you expect any prayer to have meaning?

What exactly would I pray for?
leet4A1
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11/30/2009 2:03:42 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
What Puck said.

I prayed all the time as a good little brainwash-case (the first 12 or 13 years of my life).... nothing ever came of it.
"Let me tell you the truth. The truth is, 'what is'. And 'what should be' is a fantasy, a terrible terrible lie that someone gave to the people long ago. The 'what should be' never did exist, but people keep trying to live up to it. There is no 'what should be,' there is only what is." - Lenny Bruce

"Satan goes to church, did you know that?" - Godsands

"And Genisis 1 does match modern science... you just have to try really hard." - GR33K FR33K5
Puck
Posts: 6,457
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11/30/2009 2:09:38 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
Esssentially you are asking me to forgo my mind for a month, deny my rationality, reasoning, existence, concepts, identity, self in some exercise of absurd open mindedness.

See this is the issue never addressed by those who ask this very thing. It is not just missing evidence of god here, it's the required entire restructuring of mental concepts that is based around a certain view of reality where 'hey just pray a bit' is about an absurd a request as one can ask.
Kleptin
Posts: 5,095
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11/30/2009 3:41:26 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/30/2009 12:56:56 AM, mistavega wrote:
Have any of you atheist actually tried to pray to god? Suppose I told you that if you prayed to god asking him(the entity) to prove his existence, in time he will prove his existence to you.

Will you be open minded enough to try it out? If you're open minded enough to try it out, then I challenge you to pray to god at least 3 times a week for atleast a month. You don't have to pray solely about asking him to prove his existence either, you can pray about anything you think an omnipotent creator could help you out with, as long as it's not immoral, or completely goofy. The prayer has to be sincere.

So.........

I was a perfect Christian from the age of 8 to about 11. Prayed every night, went to church every week, etc.

Then I grew up.

I still pray sometimes, but I'm more honest about it. It's called "talking to yourself".
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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11/30/2009 4:14:17 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/30/2009 12:56:56 AM, mistavega wrote:
Have any of you atheist actually tried to pray to god?

Yes.

Suppose I told you that if you prayed to god asking him(the entity) to prove his
existence, in time he will prove his existence to you.

I've been waiting 21 years, I can wait a bit longer.


Will you be open minded enough to try it out? If you're open minded enough to try it out, then I challenge you to pray to god at least 3 times a week for atleast a month. You don't have to pray solely about asking him to prove his existence either, you can pray about anything you think an omnipotent creator could help you out with, as long as it's not immoral, or completely goofy. The prayer has to be sincere.

So.........

What I find is that a believer simply lowers or removes any standard of evidence.
Thus if you are upset or stressed about something, and pray for strength and feel better than some will assign that to God, some will decide that prayer... or rather a moment of reflection has a psychological effect.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
AtheistExile
Posts: 30
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11/30/2009 5:16:11 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
Many, probably most, freethinkers were once religious. Most people don't escape the brainwashing of religions. Therefor, many freethinkers used to pray to God. I should think that's pretty obvious. I know I have prayed to God. That's one of the major reasons I'm now an atheist.

Once you understand what the natural world is, the supernatural realm becomes a silly idea (and God is as supernatural as it gets). The natural world is the entire universe and everything in it. In that context, the notion of a Creator God is childish, to say the least. We grow up rejecting Santa Claus, unicorns and tooth fairies but, because of the herd instinct, we cling to The Creator even though he's the most supernatural character of all. I mean, get real!! You reject Santa Claus but not God?
Jim Ashby
http://AtheistExile.com...

"Knowledge is a relatively safe addiction . . . that is, until it becomes idolatry." ~Anonymous

"The Abrahamic religions have been THE most persistently divisive influence in the history of mankind." ~Jim Ashby
mistavega
Posts: 30
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12/1/2009 4:17:40 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
Hmm... that's strange. Many of you say when you were 12 or 13 you stopped praying to god because you've grown up, that strikes me as odd. As I've come to grow older and understand more about the world around me, my relationship with god grew more complex and deep, as I've seen my prayers come into light over the years. I doubt a pubescent adolescent child can adequately develop a deep relationship with god, because getting to know him is a life long journey. If I gave up believing in god at such an early age, it's easy to see how the idea of a god is preposterous.

Anyways, I was going to articulate a good response, because I really do enjoy intelligent discussion, however I'm just to darn lazy. I rather pawn nubs on halo, go message some local sluts from myspace, rather then arguing back in forth with a bunch of close-minded individuals.

In conclusion, you should just take the challenge and shut up with your stupid logic. Suppose I presented you with a plate of food and told you it was made with ingredients from my previous generation, that many of my siblings happened to thoroughly enjoy. I tell you, that once you taste this culinary tasty delight, an orgy of flavor will explode in your mouth and you'll be hooked like a fish. I'm 100% certain that you'll absolutely love this food I presented you with. Will you give it a try or are you going to logically, going to debunk my plate and tell me all the reason why you wont like it, without ever tasting it first? Taste the plate dudes, give it the old college try.

I'll pray for you all tonight.
AtheistExile
Posts: 30
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12/1/2009 5:03:24 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
are you going to logically, going to debunk my plate and tell me all the reason why you wont like it, without ever tasting it first? Taste the plate dudes, give it the old college try.

Been there. Done that. It didn't work because it's a delusion -- a socially acceptable delusion . . . but still a delusion. Theism (Christianity) went out the window first at around the age of 29 or so. Deism took a lot longer. I rejected all things supernatural at the age of 40 or so. I've been free of superstitious gobbledygook ever since.

If one person believes in impossible things, he's called delusional. If many people believe in the same impossible things, it's called a religion.
Jim Ashby
http://AtheistExile.com...

"Knowledge is a relatively safe addiction . . . that is, until it becomes idolatry." ~Anonymous

"The Abrahamic religions have been THE most persistently divisive influence in the history of mankind." ~Jim Ashby
johngriswald
Posts: 1,294
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12/1/2009 5:26:09 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/30/2009 5:16:11 AM, AtheistExile wrote:
I have prayed to God. That's one of the major reasons I'm now an atheist.

LOL I wonder what was said during that prayer.
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johngriswald
Posts: 1,294
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12/1/2009 5:28:41 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/30/2009 3:41:26 AM, Kleptin wrote:

I was a perfect Christian from the age of 8 to about 11.
Then I grew up.

I'm sure you were a rather mature, responsible adult/12 year old. :)
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johngriswald
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12/1/2009 5:29:57 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 12/1/2009 5:03:24 AM, AtheistExile wrote:
If one person believes in impossible things, he's called delusional. If many people believe in the same impossible things, it's called a religion.

Really? It's impossible? Really?
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mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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12/1/2009 6:15:47 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 12/1/2009 5:29:57 AM, johngriswald wrote:
At 12/1/2009 5:03:24 AM, AtheistExile wrote:
If one person believes in impossible things, he's called delusional. If many people believe in the same impossible things, it's called a religion.

Really? It's impossible? Really?

I wouldn't quite say impossible, implausible sure.

However it being "possible" in the broadest scope of the term, doesn't at all mean that one should "believe" in it. "Belief" should have some reason behind it.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
Kleptin
Posts: 5,095
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12/1/2009 8:26:12 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 12/1/2009 4:17:40 AM, mistavega wrote:
Hmm... that's strange. Many of you say when you were 12 or 13 you stopped praying to god because you've grown up, that strikes me as odd. As I've come to grow older and understand more about the world around me, my relationship with god grew more complex and deep, as I've seen my prayers come into light over the years. I doubt a pubescent adolescent child can adequately develop a deep relationship with god, because getting to know him is a life long journey. If I gave up believing in god at such an early age, it's easy to see how the idea of a god is preposterous.

That's not strange at all. After adolescence, people start to get set in their ways. Humans are the most inquisitive before puberty, and are the most open to new ideas. If a person stays Christian throughout adolescence, chances are that he will remain Christian throughout life, actively seeking to support it and actively denying arguments against it. It becomes a mission to defend what he believes no matter what the cost, instead of dealing with what makes more sense. The validity of Christianity would be better indicated by people who have converted *after* the age of 25 or so.

Anyways, I was going to articulate a good response, because I really do enjoy intelligent discussion, however I'm just to darn lazy. I rather pawn nubs on halo, go message some local sluts from myspace, rather then arguing back in forth with a bunch of close-minded individuals.

I don't think that's a fair thing to say. If we appear close-minded, then it might be better for you to explain to us why we appear that way instead of just assuming that we are. If you really do enjoy intelligent discussion, then you should know that a significant part of that is the ability to understand why people seem to be hesitant to other ideas. Instead of assuming that we are close-minded, maybe you should ask us why we're resistant to your beliefs?

In conclusion, you should just take the challenge and shut up with your stupid logic.

Why?

Suppose I presented you with a plate of food and told you it was made with ingredients from my previous generation, that many of my siblings happened to thoroughly enjoy. I tell you, that once you taste this culinary tasty delight, an orgy of flavor will explode in your mouth and you'll be hooked like a fish. I'm 100% certain that you'll absolutely love this food I presented you with. Will you give it a try or are you going to logically, going to debunk my plate and tell me all the reason why you wont like it, without ever tasting it first? Taste the plate dudes, give it the old college try.

And suppose that the plate comes at a cost. The cost of time, effort, and lifestyle changes that come to an exorbitant sum. Of course, if what you say is true, then the price is worth it, but the plate you present us with is empty. There's absolutely nothing on the plate.

Now, the chances of there being an invisible, intangible food on the plate that is as good as you say it is? It's about 0, but the chances are still there. I'd like to try it, but not if you're going to make me pay a huge price for the whole plate. All logic is screaming at me, telling me that it is a scam. Here is a person charging an enormous price for a plate that looks, smells, and feels empty. Yet, he is saying all these wonderful things.

How about a free sample? The challenge that you put forth is like telling us to give $100 for a plate that has nothing on it. Give us a taste of the plate for free and if you are right, I will not only pay $100 for it, but I would gladly pay $1000.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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12/1/2009 8:41:12 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 12/1/2009 4:17:40 AM, mistavega wrote:
Hmm... that's strange. Many of you say when you were 12 or 13 you stopped praying to god because you've grown up, that strikes me as odd. As I've come to grow older and understand more about the world around me, my relationship with god grew more complex and deep, as I've seen my prayers come into light over the years.

Is it a case that there is a genuine pattern of results that would seem to conflict with normal statistical chance? Or is it simply a case that when prayer 'works' you accept, it when it doesn't you chalk it down to a lack of faith, or Gods inscrutable will and ignore it.

Anyways, I was going to articulate a good response, because I really do enjoy intelligent discussion, however I'm just to darn lazy. I rather pawn nubs on halo, go message some local sluts from myspace, rather then arguing back in forth with a bunch of close-minded individuals.


Hmm... what Religion is it you are preaching?

In conclusion, you should just take the challenge

I did!

and shut up with your stupid logic.

Teh bestest interwebz rgument EVAH!!!!!!!!!!!!111111
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
AtheistExile
Posts: 30
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12/1/2009 8:54:43 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
Really? It's impossible? Really?

Well . . . let's see . . .

Resurrection after 3 days . . . virgin birth . . . water into wine . . . walking on water . . . bodily ascension to "heaven" . . . feeding his throng of followers with 5 loaves of bread and 2 fish . . .

. . . Yeah . . . really.

Belief in the (divinely inspired) stories of Jesus REQUIRES suspension of disbelief (i.e. faith). Faith means you don't even pretend to have a rational explanation -- any attempt to rationalize these stories is an indictment of your faith. Either you have faith or you don't.
Jim Ashby
http://AtheistExile.com...

"Knowledge is a relatively safe addiction . . . that is, until it becomes idolatry." ~Anonymous

"The Abrahamic religions have been THE most persistently divisive influence in the history of mankind." ~Jim Ashby
I-am-a-panda
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12/1/2009 9:41:03 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
If you honestly think good comes from prayer, a month of praying can't save someone from cancer. Not even Pneumonia, AIDS, the Flu, or Diabetes. What happens happens. Talking to your imaginary friend doesn't work. It's called chance, and sure when you try praying you may begin to see some positive things, but eventually it becomes insignificant or your luck reverses.

Let's put it this way - I'm playing Halo. After a while, it's not so good. I've do everything, so there's little left to do, and even the online isn't so great anymore. So, once Call of Duty MW 2 comes out, I rush to get it and play it, but again, eventually I lose my interest.

Moral of the story, people like new things. However, eventually they lose their newness, and fall into their routine. Of course, some people are obsessed with these things. They keep getting this thing over and over, because it gives them a sense of security. However, some people venture out into the world and enjoy things day by day. They are Atheists
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
AtheistExile
Posts: 30
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12/1/2009 4:56:41 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
LOL I wonder what was said during that prayer.

My various petitions to God was (and is still) a private matter.

Given the might and majesty of The Lord, I assume people don't trivialize their prayers. They pray for good and worthy things. But if those things are good and worthy AND God is mighty and majestic, why do we have to pray for them in the first place?

Take, for example, the perennially starving masses in Africa, where drought always seems to be a problem somewhere . . .

Don't they pray for rain? Surely some of them are Christians!?! What about all the fat and happy Christians in the U.S.? Don't they pray for rain for the poor, starving, Africans?

Jesus (i.e. God in the flesh) said that we should live like the birds: they don't worry about food or shelter -- they just flit through life letting God provide for them. Well then, why do we need to pray for the starving masses? Why do we need to remind God that he claimed to provide for us?

Yes, yes. I know. God works in mysterious ways. That's our explanation when God does bad things. Why do we say it so often?
Jim Ashby
http://AtheistExile.com...

"Knowledge is a relatively safe addiction . . . that is, until it becomes idolatry." ~Anonymous

"The Abrahamic religions have been THE most persistently divisive influence in the history of mankind." ~Jim Ashby