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Does God have any moral responsibility to his

GreatestIam
Posts: 1,723
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5/29/2013 9:57:17 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Does God have any moral responsibility to his children?

Human parents have a moral responsibility to protect and try to raise their children to be what we think of as good citizens. Our laws, to some extent, make parents morally and legally responsible for the actions of their children.

God, our heavenly parent, is said to create our natures. Natures can only be followed. They cannot be changed, which I think is why God is said to hate some of us even in the womb; even before we can either do good or evil. IOW, he intentionally creates those he knows will be evil. I know some will blame man"s sins on his free will and thus shift the burden of responsibility for our sins away from God but that urge to sin is controlled by the nature and inclinations that God himself puts in us. We do have free will but that does not explain why our will, will go to evil instead of good. That desire is part of the nature that God puts in us as the story of Esau shows. In a way, Esau had no choice.

If God were just one of many Gods in a God society, would that society demand that he take responsibility in the same way human society has decided that a human child"s parent must take responsibilities?

Yes we would.

The fact that God punishes or rewards us seems to indicate that he at least thinks that he has some moral responsibility; otherwise he could not morally retain the right to punish or reward. At present we have no clear picture of what heaven and hell are like. God does not provide full disclosure even though our soul is at stake. That is not justice.

Should God"s responsibility include full disclose of what our true reward and punishment is?

God did not seem to think so in Eden, where Adam and Eve knew of only the one punishment before the act of disobedience. They soon found that the one punishment became many. It was a complete surprise for them. To me, that was completely immoral of God. That is like God lying to Adam and Eve by omission.

Does God have a responsibility for the souls he creates?

And since he could insure that all come to a good end in heaven, is making sure we get there also part of his responsibility since he creates the natures we cannot help but follow?

Any good human parent with God-like powers would insure the best end for his child if he had the power of a God. I know you and I would as part of our inclination to love and protect our children.

If God does not, does that make man more responsible than God in terms of accepting responsibility for our children?

Regards
DL
AlbinoBunny
Posts: 3,781
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5/29/2013 10:27:21 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At the very least, to not let them suffer for eternity.
bladerunner060 | bsh1 , 2014! Presidency campaign!

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GreatestIam
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5/29/2013 11:01:09 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/29/2013 10:27:21 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At the very least, to not let them suffer for eternity.

The least for sure.

Regards
DL
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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5/29/2013 1:10:56 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Theists appeal to intuition, but this is not good for the theist. Intuition tells us that if any being rapes and kills kids they they are evil. However, the theist wants us to believe that if God did it, it would be ok. That stomps on the same intuitions that theists say leads to objective morality in the first place. Intuitions tell me rape is wrong, not that rape is wrong except for one being.
GreatestIam
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5/29/2013 1:27:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/29/2013 1:10:56 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
Theists appeal to intuition, but this is not good for the theist. Intuition tells us that if any being rapes and kills kids they they are evil. However, the theist wants us to believe that if God did it, it would be ok. That stomps on the same intuitions that theists say leads to objective morality in the first place. Intuitions tell me rape is wrong, not that rape is wrong except for one being.

I agree that many Christians have ended with a corrupted double standard of morality and will condemn men for things that they praise God for.

Regards
DL
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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5/29/2013 1:43:59 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
He is not our father in the literal sense, he 's our creator.

So it all depends on what he created us for. If for rearing then yes !

If for test and choosing the best, then no!
Graincruncher
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5/29/2013 1:45:00 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
He could just have created the ones that he knew in advance would get to heaven skipped out this whole painful charade, in that case.
AlbinoBunny
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5/29/2013 2:08:49 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/29/2013 1:43:59 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
He is not our father in the literal sense, he 's our creator.

So it all depends on what he created us for. If for rearing then yes !

If for test and choosing the best, then no!

Let's genetically create creatures, for "test and choosing the best". I guess we'd have no moral responsibility to them, then.
bladerunner060 | bsh1 , 2014! Presidency campaign!

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Graincruncher
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5/29/2013 2:12:05 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/29/2013 2:08:49 PM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 5/29/2013 1:43:59 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
He is not our father in the literal sense, he 's our creator.

So it all depends on what he created us for. If for rearing then yes !

If for test and choosing the best, then no!

Let's genetically create creatures, for "test and choosing the best". I guess we'd have no moral responsibility to them, then.

Impossible. We'd need some kind of selection process and I just can't think of how one of those could possible work...
AlbinoBunny
Posts: 3,781
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5/29/2013 2:14:31 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/29/2013 2:12:05 PM, Graincruncher wrote:
At 5/29/2013 2:08:49 PM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 5/29/2013 1:43:59 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
He is not our father in the literal sense, he 's our creator.

So it all depends on what he created us for. If for rearing then yes !

If for test and choosing the best, then no!

Let's genetically create creatures, for "test and choosing the best". I guess we'd have no moral responsibility to them, then.

Impossible. We'd need some kind of selection process and I just can't think of how one of those could possible work...

Let's create an arbitrary morality for them to conform to, then create ones which don't conform, and we know they don't, just so they can act how they want. Then make sure they don't die, and leave them somewhere where we're not, suffering, for eternity.

All hail God!
bladerunner060 | bsh1 , 2014! Presidency campaign!

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Sower4GS
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5/29/2013 2:15:45 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Whenever you thoughts die down like that, repent in Yahshua's name. Thinking for yourself is most all of the world's trouble because lucifer fills the thoughts of the unwise.
Sower4GS
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5/29/2013 2:16:49 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/29/2013 2:15:45 PM, Sower4GS wrote:
Whenever you thoughts die down like that, repent in Yahshua's name. Thinking for yourself is most all of the world's trouble because lucifer fills the thoughts of the unwise.

That was in response to this statement:

Impossible. We'd need some kind of selection process and I just can't think of how one of those could possible work...
Graincruncher
Posts: 2,799
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5/29/2013 2:17:19 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/29/2013 2:15:45 PM, Sower4GS wrote:
Whenever you thoughts die down like that, repent in Yahshua's name. Thinking for yourself is most all of the world's trouble because lucifer fills the thoughts of the unwise.

You are a terrifying reminder of why the world is in the shape it is. Just... wow.
Sower4GS
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5/29/2013 2:17:59 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/29/2013 2:14:31 PM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 5/29/2013 2:12:05 PM, Graincruncher wrote:
At 5/29/2013 2:08:49 PM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 5/29/2013 1:43:59 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
He is not our father in the literal sense, he 's our creator.

So it all depends on what he created us for. If for rearing then yes !

If for test and choosing the best, then no!

Let's genetically create creatures, for "test and choosing the best". I guess we'd have no moral responsibility to them, then.

Impossible. We'd need some kind of selection process and I just can't think of how one of those could possible work...

Let's create an arbitrary morality for them to conform to, then create ones which don't conform, and we know they don't, just so they can act how they want. Then make sure they don't die, and leave them somewhere where we're not, suffering, for eternity.

All hail God!
Don't use YHWH's name in vain. bad rabbit!
AlbinoBunny
Posts: 3,781
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5/29/2013 2:18:04 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
People still must think like they did in the days when they thought it was ok for kings to torture and kill people on a whim.
bladerunner060 | bsh1 , 2014! Presidency campaign!

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Sower4GS
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5/29/2013 2:19:12 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
There are few worker's in the vine yard, but YHWH is still getting the job done, regardless, not by might, or power, but by His Ruach!!
Sower4GS
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5/29/2013 2:20:13 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/29/2013 2:18:04 PM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
People still must think like they did in the days when they thought it was ok for kings to torture and kill people on a whim.

No comprendo?
AlbinoBunny
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5/29/2013 2:20:14 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/29/2013 2:19:12 PM, Sower4GS wrote:
There are few worker's in the vine yard, but YHWH is still getting the job done, regardless, not by might, or power, but by His Ruach!!

Well he is omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent. If I had those qualities and couldn't get a job done I'd be very ashamed.
bladerunner060 | bsh1 , 2014! Presidency campaign!

http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org... - Running for president.
http://www.debate.org... - Running as his vice president.

May the best man win!
Graincruncher
Posts: 2,799
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5/29/2013 2:27:21 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/29/2013 2:18:04 PM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
People still must think like they did in the days when they thought it was ok for kings to torture and kill people on a whim.

They think?
GreatestIam
Posts: 1,723
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5/29/2013 3:29:06 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/29/2013 2:15:45 PM, Sower4GS wrote:
Whenever you thoughts die down like that, repent in Yahshua's name. Thinking for yourself is most all of the world's trouble because lucifer fills the thoughts of the unwise.

With the power God purportedly gave him. Hmm. Nice God that. Not.

Your statement indicates that the wise would have God the thoughts of God within them yet all they can do is hide behind their faith of fools.

Strange God you follow.

Regards
DL
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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5/29/2013 4:04:34 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/29/2013 2:08:49 PM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 5/29/2013 1:43:59 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
He is not our father in the literal sense, he 's our creator.

So it all depends on what he created us for. If for rearing then yes !

If for test and choosing the best, then no!

Let's genetically create creatures, for "test and choosing the best". I guess we'd have no moral responsibility to them, then.

Responsibility in front of who ?!