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Openmindedperson
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5/30/2013 11:31:45 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Why can't people just allow others to believe in what ever they want when it comes to religion? What does it matter to 1 person that believes in God if another person doesn't? ( or lack of belief in God )

God exist or not? I feel is one of the most Opinionated topics out there since rationally no one can prove either side of the argument.

Be respectful please when answering.
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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5/30/2013 11:39:06 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/30/2013 11:31:45 AM, Openmindedperson wrote:
Why can't people just allow others to believe in what ever they want when it comes to religion? What does it matter to 1 person that believes in God if another person doesn't? ( or lack of belief in God )

Actions are based on beliefs. If you have the wrong beliefs, you are going to make the wrong actions. Thus, debate is important.


God exist or not? I feel is one of the most Opinionated topics out there since rationally no one can prove either side of the argument.

It is opinionated. That does not mean there cannot be arguments dealing with objective truth pertaining to either side.


Be respectful please when answering.

I believe I have.
Openmindedperson
Posts: 7
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5/30/2013 11:51:47 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/30/2013 11:39:06 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 5/30/2013 11:31:45 AM, Openmindedperson wrote:
Why can't people just allow others to believe in what ever they want when it comes to religion? What does it matter to 1 person that believes in God if another person doesn't? ( or lack of belief in God )

Actions are based on beliefs. If you have the wrong beliefs, you are going to make the wrong actions. Thus, debate is important.

I see your logic, but who has the right beliefs and who has the wrong beliefs? Some people will say their beliefs are right and others will say theirs are right. So in a sense neither is right or wrong, but simply question ones action based on their belief to make sure that they aren't doing something that Society (regardless of religious views agrees is wrong. Example: Murder is wrong, Religions say it, laws say it, and non religious people say it. My point is that when some one questions another about their religious view or lack of they (sometimes) will go to great lengths to prove they are right and sometimes the person(s) can get violent (physical and/or verbal). Why not just allow the other person to keep their view/belief (circumstance not withstanding).

God exist or not? I feel is one of the most Opinionated topics out there since rationally no one can prove either side of the argument.

It is opinionated. That does not mean there cannot be arguments dealing with objective truth pertaining to either side.

True, but some people on both sides don't look at it that way. I guess you could say they are radical in their belief.
Be respectful please when answering.

I believe I have.

Yes you have. I just added that because I've seen questions like these turn ugly and just wanted good reasonable answers.
proglib
Posts: 391
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5/30/2013 3:51:28 PM
Posted: 3 years ago

Yes you have. I just added that because I've seen questions like these turn ugly and just wanted good reasonable answers.

Agreed.

Very unfortunate that so many debates on religion turn so ugly. Same with politics. Must be people's identity and feelings of self-worth are so wrapped up in their beliefs on these topics. [That sentence is going to get me "Obviousman" votes, LOL.:D]
"I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice.* And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue." Barry Goldwater
*Except in a democracy it might lose you an election.

http://unitedwegovern.org...
philochristos
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5/30/2013 3:56:13 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/30/2013 11:31:45 AM, Openmindedperson wrote:
Why can't people just allow others to believe in what ever they want when it comes to religion?

I'm not sure what you mean by "allow others to believe" but if you mean "refrain from trying to persuade them," then why are you trying to persuade us? Suppose I'm a Christian, and part of my religion says that I have a duty to try to convert other people to Christianity. If you're trying to persuade me otherwise, then aren't you interfering with my religious belief?
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
AlbinoBunny
Posts: 3,781
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5/30/2013 4:03:13 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Discussion on beliefs allows people to consider their own beliefs from a better position.
bladerunner060 | bsh1 , 2014! Presidency campaign!

http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org... - Running for president.
http://www.debate.org... - Running as his vice president.

May the best man win!
bladerunner060
Posts: 7,126
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5/30/2013 4:04:11 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/30/2013 11:31:45 AM, Openmindedperson wrote:
Why can't people just allow others to believe in what ever they want when it comes to religion? What does it matter to 1 person that believes in God if another person doesn't? ( or lack of belief in God )


Because each side feels the other is, in some way, either lying or foolish.

God exist or not? I feel is one of the most Opinionated topics out there since rationally no one can prove either side of the argument.

As an atheist, I feel there are no good reasons to believe in god. Remember that definitive proof is not always necessary to make a case. In the case of belief in God. if I believed there were any good reasons, any rational reasons, I would probably believe in god myself. So as far as I'm concerned, I feel that those who espouse belief are either very mistaken, or in some cases, liars.

For example, if someone said "I have no good arguments for the belief in God, but I take it on faith alone", I would stop debating with them. They have admitted they have abandoned rationality, and if they're willing to admit that, I've got no real beef, because it's honest. Of course, there's baggage that goes along with that: if you admit you have no good reason to believe as you do, it becomes much harder to justify, say, being bigoted towards to gays in lawmaking.

Obviously, the religious feel the opposite. They feel they have a strong case for their position, and that it is the atheist side which is ignoring their rationale.

And thus each side tries to convince the other of their position. Like any debate with entrenched sides, it can get heated.
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muzebreak
Posts: 2,781
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5/30/2013 4:16:15 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/30/2013 11:31:45 AM, Openmindedperson wrote:
Why can't people just allow others to believe in what ever they want when it comes to religion? What does it matter to 1 person that believes in God if another person doesn't? ( or lack of belief in God )

God exist or not? I feel is one of the most Opinionated topics out there since rationally no one can prove either side of the argument.

Be respectful please when answering.
This is why:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk...
"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.
Dogknox
Posts: 5,078
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5/30/2013 4:18:45 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/30/2013 11:31:45 AM, Openmindedperson wrote:
Why can't people just allow others to believe in what ever they want when it comes to religion? What does it matter to 1 person that believes in God if another person doesn't? ( or lack of belief in God )

God exist or not? I feel is one of the most Opinionated topics out there since rationally no one can prove either side of the argument.

Be respectful please when answering.

They do!!! DUH!!!
LOGIC ALONE SAYS...I can't force you to believe anything!!
Why can't people just allow others to believe in what ever they want when it comes to religion?

I can't force you to LOVE ME!!
Openmindedperson "if you will love me; I will pay you eighteen dollars"!
OR the reverse...
"If you refuse to love me, I will punch you in the nose and break both your leg"!

NO ONE CAN FORCE YOU TO have TRUE LOVE or to have TRUE FAITH!

Dogknox
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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5/30/2013 4:28:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/30/2013 11:31:45 AM, Openmindedperson wrote:
Why can't people just allow others to believe in what ever they want when it comes to religion? What does it matter to 1 person that believes in God if another person doesn't? ( or lack of belief in God )

God exist or not? I feel is one of the most Opinionated topics out there since rationally no one can prove either side of the argument.

Be respectful please when answering.

Because, after thousands of years of murder and violence, the time for that is past. Imagine person A and person B. Person A is physical stronger and has been kicking the crap out of person B for days. Person B finds a stick to give him the upper hand, then, all of a sudden, person A is like, "Hey! Let's just leave each other alone!"

The answer is: No.

http://kevencard.com...
bladerunner060
Posts: 7,126
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5/30/2013 4:32:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/30/2013 4:28:39 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 5/30/2013 11:31:45 AM, Openmindedperson wrote:
Why can't people just allow others to believe in what ever they want when it comes to religion? What does it matter to 1 person that believes in God if another person doesn't? ( or lack of belief in God )

God exist or not? I feel is one of the most Opinionated topics out there since rationally no one can prove either side of the argument.

Be respectful please when answering.

Because, after thousands of years of murder and violence, the time for that is past. Imagine person A and person B. Person A is physical stronger and has been kicking the crap out of person B for days. Person B finds a stick to give him the upper hand, then, all of a sudden, person A is like, "Hey! Let's just leave each other alone!"

The answer is: No.

http://kevencard.com...

On an unrelated note, drafter, shouldn't one of the houses referenced by your sig be brought down, or at least marked of its shame?
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AlbinoBunny
Posts: 3,781
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5/30/2013 5:01:52 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/30/2013 4:32:10 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 5/30/2013 4:28:39 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 5/30/2013 11:31:45 AM, Openmindedperson wrote:
Why can't people just allow others to believe in what ever they want when it comes to religion? What does it matter to 1 person that believes in God if another person doesn't? ( or lack of belief in God )

God exist or not? I feel is one of the most Opinionated topics out there since rationally no one can prove either side of the argument.

Be respectful please when answering.

Because, after thousands of years of murder and violence, the time for that is past. Imagine person A and person B. Person A is physical stronger and has been kicking the crap out of person B for days. Person B finds a stick to give him the upper hand, then, all of a sudden, person A is like, "Hey! Let's just leave each other alone!"

The answer is: No.

http://kevencard.com...

On an unrelated note, drafter, shouldn't one of the houses referenced by your sig be brought down, or at least marked of its shame?

Tell it to put on an Apron and make us sandwiches.
bladerunner060 | bsh1 , 2014! Presidency campaign!

http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org... - Running for president.
http://www.debate.org... - Running as his vice president.

May the best man win!
Openmindedperson
Posts: 7
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5/30/2013 6:40:47 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/30/2013 3:56:13 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 5/30/2013 11:31:45 AM, Openmindedperson wrote:
Why can't people just allow others to believe in what ever they want when it comes to religion?

I'm not sure what you mean by "allow others to believe" but if you mean "refrain from trying to persuade them," then why are you trying to persuade us? Suppose I'm a Christian, and part of my religion says that I have a duty to try to convert other people to Christianity. If you're trying to persuade me otherwise, then aren't you interfering with my religious belief?

I see your point. Lets say for instance a member of the Christian community came to say my house and wanted to discuss the possibility of converting me, before welcoming the person in I would let them know I don't believe in being pushed to believe in God ( if they don't get forceful then I'm fine listening to what they say), I'm willing to give them a chance to persuade me other wise. I'm open-mined and won't dismiss the person just because their beliefs are different than mine. After say an hour of him/her explaining everything, I like to question it, and if I'm not persuaded after a while, I let them know. I don't see the sense to keep trying to persuade a person that wasn't persuaded the first time. At which point some people tend to get a little more forceful. So what I'm saying is that when someone isn't persuaded to switch then why can't the person from either side just let that person be. Hope that explains a little clearer on where I'm going with this.
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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5/30/2013 6:46:37 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/30/2013 4:32:10 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 5/30/2013 4:28:39 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 5/30/2013 11:31:45 AM, Openmindedperson wrote:
Why can't people just allow others to believe in what ever they want when it comes to religion? What does it matter to 1 person that believes in God if another person doesn't? ( or lack of belief in God )

God exist or not? I feel is one of the most Opinionated topics out there since rationally no one can prove either side of the argument.

Be respectful please when answering.

Because, after thousands of years of murder and violence, the time for that is past. Imagine person A and person B. Person A is physical stronger and has been kicking the crap out of person B for days. Person B finds a stick to give him the upper hand, then, all of a sudden, person A is like, "Hey! Let's just leave each other alone!"

The answer is: No.

http://kevencard.com...

On an unrelated note, drafter, shouldn't one of the houses referenced by your sig be brought down, or at least marked of its shame?

That's true... But I'm rather attached to the motto. I thought it was clever!
bladerunner060
Posts: 7,126
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5/30/2013 7:03:32 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/30/2013 6:46:37 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 5/30/2013 4:32:10 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 5/30/2013 4:28:39 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 5/30/2013 11:31:45 AM, Openmindedperson wrote:
Why can't people just allow others to believe in what ever they want when it comes to religion? What does it matter to 1 person that believes in God if another person doesn't? ( or lack of belief in God )

God exist or not? I feel is one of the most Opinionated topics out there since rationally no one can prove either side of the argument.

Be respectful please when answering.

Because, after thousands of years of murder and violence, the time for that is past. Imagine person A and person B. Person A is physical stronger and has been kicking the crap out of person B for days. Person B finds a stick to give him the upper hand, then, all of a sudden, person A is like, "Hey! Let's just leave each other alone!"

The answer is: No.

http://kevencard.com...

On an unrelated note, drafter, shouldn't one of the houses referenced by your sig be brought down, or at least marked of its shame?

That's true... But I'm rather attached to the motto. I thought it was clever!

It is pretty awesome...maybe it needs an overlay of like an X or "Disgraced"? When a House falls, so too does it's standard!
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AlbinoBunny
Posts: 3,781
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5/30/2013 7:06:33 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/30/2013 7:03:32 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 5/30/2013 6:46:37 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 5/30/2013 4:32:10 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 5/30/2013 4:28:39 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 5/30/2013 11:31:45 AM, Openmindedperson wrote:
Why can't people just allow others to believe in what ever they want when it comes to religion? What does it matter to 1 person that believes in God if another person doesn't? ( or lack of belief in God )

God exist or not? I feel is one of the most Opinionated topics out there since rationally no one can prove either side of the argument.

Be respectful please when answering.

Because, after thousands of years of murder and violence, the time for that is past. Imagine person A and person B. Person A is physical stronger and has been kicking the crap out of person B for days. Person B finds a stick to give him the upper hand, then, all of a sudden, person A is like, "Hey! Let's just leave each other alone!"

The answer is: No.

http://kevencard.com...

On an unrelated note, drafter, shouldn't one of the houses referenced by your sig be brought down, or at least marked of its shame?

That's true... But I'm rather attached to the motto. I thought it was clever!

It is pretty awesome...maybe it needs an overlay of like an X or "Disgraced"? When a House falls, so too does it's standard!

I don't see you on there Dino.
bladerunner060 | bsh1 , 2014! Presidency campaign!

http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org... - Running for president.
http://www.debate.org... - Running as his vice president.

May the best man win!
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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5/30/2013 7:17:17 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Your belief contributes to the social standard. Social pressure for me to accept something I know is false affects me. Therefore it is my business to police and question proponents of said beliefs.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
AlbinoBunny
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5/30/2013 7:20:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/30/2013 7:14:18 PM, drafterman wrote:
http://www.debate.org...

Where's the apron?
bladerunner060 | bsh1 , 2014! Presidency campaign!

http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org... - Running for president.
http://www.debate.org... - Running as his vice president.

May the best man win!
Sidewalker
Posts: 3,713
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5/30/2013 7:29:58 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/30/2013 11:31:45 AM, Openmindedperson wrote:
Why can't people just allow others to believe in what ever they want when it comes to religion? What does it matter to 1 person that believes in God if another person doesn't? ( or lack of belief in God )

God exist or not? I feel is one of the most Opinionated topics out there since rationally no one can prove either side of the argument.

Be respectful please when answering.

I would posit that many argue about it because there is an internal conflict about it, a lot of people seem to need to transform their internal conflicts into interpersonal ones.
"It is one of the commonest of mistakes to consider that the limit of our power of perception is also the limit of all there is to perceive." " C. W. Leadbeater
Illegalcombatant
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5/30/2013 7:45:14 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/30/2013 11:31:45 AM, Openmindedperson wrote:
Why can't people just allow others to believe in what ever they want when it comes to religion? What does it matter to 1 person that believes in God if another person doesn't? ( or lack of belief in God )

Cause usually the God believer is arguing more than just a pure ontological view, that being God exists (how ever you define God).

They are arguing that God wants certain things of people, and the religious believer believes this entitles them to do certain things to other human beings, from demanding a proposition be believed on threat of eternal hell fire to killing, rapeing, torture, stealing, and crushing any dissent they deem to "Gods truth".

God exist or not? I feel is one of the most Opinionated topics out there since rationally no one can prove either side of the argument.


Be respectful please when answering.
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
bladerunner060
Posts: 7,126
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5/30/2013 7:47:15 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/30/2013 7:06:33 PM, AlbinoBunny wrote:


I don't see you on there Dino.

I'm far from cool enough to rate a House.
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bladerunner060
Posts: 7,126
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5/30/2013 7:47:48 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/30/2013 7:14:18 PM, drafterman wrote:
http://www.debate.org...

Lolol. Well done, good sir.
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bladerunner060
Posts: 7,126
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5/30/2013 7:48:16 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/30/2013 7:29:58 PM, Sidewalker wrote:

I would posit that many argue about it because there is an internal conflict about it, a lot of people seem to need to transform their internal conflicts into interpersonal ones.

Why do you think that?
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proglib
Posts: 391
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5/30/2013 11:22:26 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/30/2013 7:47:48 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 5/30/2013 7:14:18 PM, drafterman wrote:
http://www.debate.org...

Lolol. Well done, good sir.

Hilarious! And I liked the guy until I heard the bullsh*t he pulled. [Yes, he is arrogant, but that is not a rare trait, unfortunately, and he is smart enough to often make it worth wading through the other sh*te (British Isles spelling seems so much more refined.)]
"I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice.* And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue." Barry Goldwater
*Except in a democracy it might lose you an election.

http://unitedwegovern.org...
SovereignDream
Posts: 1,119
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5/30/2013 11:56:03 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/30/2013 4:04:11 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
As an atheist, I feel there are no good reasons to believe in god.

*cough

That's congruent with agnosticism

*cough

<3
bladerunner060
Posts: 7,126
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5/30/2013 11:57:48 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/30/2013 11:56:03 PM, SovereignDream wrote:
At 5/30/2013 4:04:11 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
As an atheist, I feel there are no good reasons to believe in god.

*cough

That's congruent with agnosticism

*cough

<3

Yup, it is. Agnosticism, on its own, is not a position on the existence of god, it's a position on knowledge.
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TULIP
Posts: 398
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5/31/2013 12:42:35 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/30/2013 11:31:45 AM, Openmindedperson wrote:
Why can't people just allow others to believe in what ever they want when it comes to religion? What does it matter to 1 person that believes in God if another person doesn't? ( or lack of belief in God )

God exist or not? I feel is one of the most Opinionated topics out there since rationally no one can prove either side of the argument.

Be respectful please when answering.

Well my friend, if we did that then wed be letting all people walk straight into hell without a single warning of salvation In Christ. People who are TRUE Christians have a duty and that's to speak the truth and warn everyone of what's coming and what can be done. And it's left between you and God inwardly on what's chosen for you.

And to say that either or cannot be proven is like saying there's no absolute truth (that's relativism buddy) and relativism blindly holds you captive to your views and that's why you seem to be confused as to why this or why that.. :/
"We conclude that our salvation is of The Lord. He is the One who regenerates us. Those whom He regenerates come to Christ. Without regeneration no one will ever come to Christ. With regeneration no one will ever reject Him. God's saving grace effects what He intends to effect by it. ~ R. C. Sproul
drafterman
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5/31/2013 7:17:30 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/30/2013 11:56:03 PM, SovereignDream wrote:
At 5/30/2013 4:04:11 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
As an atheist, I feel there are no good reasons to believe in god.

*cough

That's congruent with agnosticism

*cough

<3

No it isn't. Agnosticism is about knowledge, not belief.
Mysterious_Stranger
Posts: 1,562
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6/1/2013 7:58:17 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I agree that people should just be left to believe what they like. People that try to convert others are in my opinion idiots.
Turn around, go back.