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Is it egotistical to think that a God would d

GreatestIam
Posts: 1,723
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5/31/2013 1:48:16 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Is it egotistical to think that a God would die for you?

People who believe in the barbaric human blood sacrifice of the Triune Jesus/God must believe that the greatest force ever to exist decided that humans, lowly creations whom we are told are infinitely inferior to God, are somehow more important than God"s own life and that he would give it up for believers.

That is like a slave master dying in place of his slave. A rather silly notion to me.

Jesus preached that we should develop a humble character with little self-pride.

How is placing your own life above Triune Jesus/God"s showing a humble character as you think that he would die for you? That is taking self-pride to the maximum.

I think that those with good morals will know that no noble and gracious God would demand the sacrifice of a so called son just to prove it's benevolence.

Yet Christians who think they are moral will believe that God would do such a despicable thing as having his son killed even as scriptures say that God prefers repentance to sacrifice and does not believe in asking or accepting a ransom.

Is thinking that to believe that God would die for you the epitome of an inflated ego?

If not, what could possibly inflate an ego more than that?

Regards
DL
muzebreak
Posts: 2,781
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5/31/2013 2:04:03 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Believing that said god also loves you unconditionally, and condemns your enemy's to a pit of eternal torture.
"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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5/31/2013 2:50:43 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Christians just tried to give a positive explanation to why would Jesus ,who say he is the son of God, and that they interpret as if he said he is God!! be crucified by his enemies. Although he did warn them and said :

17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself: I have power to lay it down, and have power to take it again: this commandment have I received of my Father./John GNV

But still Christians came up with an explanation that did not appear in their scriptures, and that even contradicts it!
bulproof
Posts: 25,184
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6/1/2013 11:23:02 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/31/2013 2:50:43 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
Christians just tried to give a positive explanation to why would Jesus ,who say he is the son of God, and that they interpret as if he said he is God!! be crucified by his enemies. Although he did warn them and said :

17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself: I have power to lay it down, and have power to take it again: this commandment have I received of my Father./John GNV

But still Christians came up with an explanation that did not appear in their scriptures, and that even contradicts it!

And so says an illiterate camel trader 600yrs later.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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6/1/2013 11:43:35 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
An all-powerful God coming down to earth to get killed by his creation in order to fulfill some kind of unwritten contract composed by that God to save said creation seems more counter-intuitive than egotistical in my mind.
AlbinoBunny
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6/2/2013 9:13:12 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/1/2013 11:43:35 PM, Wnope wrote:
An all-powerful God coming down to earth to get killed by his creation in order to fulfill some kind of unwritten contract composed by that God to save said creation seems more counter-intuitive than egotistical in my mind.

The innovation and imagination of the minds of men are near boundless.

d came down so that he could give us a human form rallying point, and a representation of the differences of good and evil. A sacrifice in our minds is a very strong act and has the power to give a huge amount of meaning to the act. It sticks out in people's minds and gives a level of self-realisation, which important to us.

The fact that the god knows all his actions, and the results though, is quite strange.
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Sqig
Posts: 9
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6/2/2013 9:55:56 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
The true Christian is not egotistical for believing that Jesus died for their sins because we know that it was an act of grace that we don't deserve. We know that we are in fact deserving of hell, and without the sacrafice of Jesus we would never be able to make it to heaven. We know that Jesus didn't have to die for us, and instead of feeling prideful we feel immensely grateful and awed by how God could love sinful humanity so much.

We would be egotistical if we thought we could get to Heaven by our own merit and good deeds without a sacrifice. So far from making us feel proud, the cross is a reminder that we aren't good enough to get to Heaven on our own.
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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6/2/2013 9:56:31 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/1/2013 11:23:02 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/31/2013 2:50:43 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
Christians just tried to give a positive explanation to why would Jesus ,who say he is the son of God, and that they interpret as if he said he is God!! be crucified by his enemies. Although he did warn them and said :

17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself: I have power to lay it down, and have power to take it again: this commandment have I received of my Father./John GNV

But still Christians came up with an explanation that did not appear in their scriptures, and that even contradicts it!

And so says an illiterate camel trader 600yrs later.

The ambiguity wouldn't have lasted forever.What is wrong with traders or camels that you don't like? he, by the way was a shepherd before he trades. maybe it'd interest you !
GreatestIam
Posts: 1,723
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6/2/2013 10:28:54 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/31/2013 2:04:03 PM, muzebreak wrote:
Believing that said god also loves you unconditionally, and condemns your enemy's to a pit of eternal torture.

A close second for sure.

Regards
DL
GreatestIam
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6/2/2013 10:32:21 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/31/2013 2:50:43 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
Christians just tried to give a positive explanation to why would Jesus ,who say he is the son of God, and that they interpret as if he said he is God!! be crucified by his enemies. Although he did warn them and said :

17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself: I have power to lay it down, and have power to take it again: this commandment have I received of my Father./John GNV

But still Christians came up with an explanation that did not appear in their scriptures, and that even contradicts it!

Indeed.

To think that a Jesus who could lay down his own life and did not and set the conditions for others to murder him would also make him culpaple for murder.

What a strange idiotic doctrine Christianity has become.

Regards
DL
GreatestIam
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6/2/2013 10:35:01 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/1/2013 11:43:35 PM, Wnope wrote:
An all-powerful God coming down to earth to get killed by his creation in order to fulfill some kind of unwritten contract composed by that God to save said creation seems more counter-intuitive than egotistical in my mind.

It is indeed counter-intuitive and I agree does not add to egotism. To believe that it is a fact is what adds to it and swells the ego.

Regards
DL
GreatestIam
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6/2/2013 10:38:04 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/2/2013 9:13:12 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 6/1/2013 11:43:35 PM, Wnope wrote:
An all-powerful God coming down to earth to get killed by his creation in order to fulfill some kind of unwritten contract composed by that God to save said creation seems more counter-intuitive than egotistical in my mind.

The innovation and imagination of the minds of men are near boundless.

d came down so that he could give us a human form rallying point, and a representation of the differences of good and evil. A sacrifice in our minds is a very strong act and has the power to give a huge amount of meaning to the act. It sticks out in people's minds and gives a level of self-realisation, which important to us.

The fact that the god knows all his actions, and the results though, is quite strange.

I agree with your view of sacrifice and how we would perceive it but for a Trinity member to sacrifice himself to himself has no loss and without someone losing something, there is no sacrifice.

Regards
DL
GreatestIam
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6/2/2013 10:45:09 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/2/2013 9:55:56 AM, Sqig wrote:
The true Christian is not egotistical for believing that Jesus died for their sins because we know that it was an act of grace that we don't deserve. We know that we are in fact deserving of hell, and without the sacrafice of Jesus we would never be able to make it to heaven. We know that Jesus didn't have to die for us, and instead of feeling prideful we feel immensely grateful and awed by how God could love sinful humanity so much.

We would be egotistical if we thought we could get to Heaven by our own merit and good deeds without a sacrifice. So far from making us feel proud, the cross is a reminder that we aren't good enough to get to Heaven on our own.

Self-deprecation is a high form of self-aggrandisement. Humble indeed.

What you say has 0 biblical support as it says that God has given us a way to salvation-----2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

and scriptures also tell us that God prefers repentance over4 sacrifice.

Read your bible friend as you do not know it and stop embracing barbaric human sacrifice and become civilized.

Please revue the quotes used and refute them if you wish.

Regards
DL
Sqig
Posts: 9
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6/2/2013 4:34:08 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/2/2013 10:45:09 AM, GreatestIam wrote:
At 6/2/2013 9:55:56 AM, Sqig wrote:
The true Christian is not egotistical for believing that Jesus died for their sins because we know that it was an act of grace that we don't deserve. We know that we are in fact deserving of hell, and without the sacrafice of Jesus we would never be able to make it to heaven. We know that Jesus didn't have to die for us, and instead of feeling prideful we feel immensely grateful and awed by how God could love sinful humanity so much.

We would be egotistical if we thought we could get to Heaven by our own merit and good deeds without a sacrifice. So far from making us feel proud, the cross is a reminder that we aren't good enough to get to Heaven on our own.

Self-deprecation is a high form of self-aggrandisement. Humble indeed.

What you say has 0 biblical support as it says that God has given us a way to salvation-----2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

and scriptures also tell us that God prefers repentance over4 sacrifice.

Read your bible friend as you do not know it and stop embracing barbaric human sacrifice and become civilized.





Please revue the quotes used and refute them if you wish.

Regards
DL

I agree that God gave us the way to salvation, to belive other wise would mean we are able to get to God on our own, and we can't. Salvation is a gift. "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not of your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast." -Ephesians 2:8-9. The way to salvation is Jesus Christ, ("Jesus told him, 'I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can get to the Father except through me.'" -John 14:6) who lived a perfect life and took our sins upon himself on the cross so that Gods wrath would be satisfied, and we could be judged righteous on judgement day. "For Christ died for sins once and for all, the righteous for the unrighteous to bring you to God" -1 Peter 3:18. In order to obtain true salvation you must repent of their sins and trust in Jesus alone, who died for your sins, for your salvation. "Repent, then, turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out" -Acts 3:19.

Let me ask you a question, do you think you are a good person?
Sqig
Posts: 9
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6/2/2013 5:22:21 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Iwill have to re-watch the first video and look deeper into the matter before I offer a response.

As for the second video, Gods sovereignty and moral responsibility are two ideas that are hard for our minds to reconcile, and I have struggled with that question in the past. But the bottom line is, even though God knew exactly what they would do in advance, they still chose to violate his moral law. God wasn't controling their minds, he just knew what decisions they would make.
GreatestIam
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6/9/2013 9:19:07 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/2/2013 4:34:08 PM, Sqig wrote:
At 6/2/2013 10:45:09 AM, GreatestIam wrote:
At 6/2/2013 9:55:56 AM, Sqig wrote:
The true Christian is not egotistical for believing that Jesus died for their sins because we know that it was an act of grace that we don't deserve. We know that we are in fact deserving of hell, and without the sacrafice of Jesus we would never be able to make it to heaven. We know that Jesus didn't have to die for us, and instead of feeling prideful we feel immensely grateful and awed by how God could love sinful humanity so much.

We would be egotistical if we thought we could get to Heaven by our own merit and good deeds without a sacrifice. So far from making us feel proud, the cross is a reminder that we aren't good enough to get to Heaven on our own.

Self-deprecation is a high form of self-aggrandisement. Humble indeed.

What you say has 0 biblical support as it says that God has given us a way to salvation-----2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

and scriptures also tell us that God prefers repentance over4 sacrifice.

Read your bible friend as you do not know it and stop embracing barbaric human sacrifice and become civilized.





Please revue the quotes used and refute them if you wish.

Regards
DL

I agree that God gave us the way to salvation, to belive other wise would mean we are able to get to God on our own, and we can't. Salvation is a gift. "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not of your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast." -Ephesians 2:8-9. The way to salvation is Jesus Christ, ("Jesus told him, 'I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can get to the Father except through me.'" -John 14:6) who lived a perfect life and took our sins upon himself on the cross so that Gods wrath would be satisfied, and we could be judged righteous on judgement day. "For Christ died for sins once and for all, the righteous for the unrighteous to bring you to God" -1 Peter 3:18. In order to obtain true salvation you must repent of their sins and trust in Jesus alone, who died for your sins, for your salvation. "Repent, then, turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out" -Acts 3:19.

Let me ask you a question, do you think you are a good person?

Strange that you think your satanic God can forgive sin.

I am better than those who have embrace barbaric human sacrifice and the notion that they should try to profit from God having his son needlessly murdered.

Are you?

Regards
DL
GreatestIam
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6/9/2013 9:22:46 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/2/2013 5:22:21 PM, Sqig wrote:
Iwill have to re-watch the first video and look deeper into the matter before I offer a response.

As for the second video, Gods sovereignty and moral responsibility are two ideas that are hard for our minds to reconcile, and I have struggled with that question in the past. But the bottom line is, even though God knew exactly what they would do in advance, they still chose to violate his moral law. God wasn't controling their minds, he just knew what decisions they would make.

God put Satan in Eden with A & E after he gave Satan the power to deceive everyone on earth. That is God controlling minds through his puppet Satan.

Try not to distort your theology and dogma too much just because you do not see it's immorality and you try to make it moral.

Regards
DL